On 17 Feb 2018 00:57,=
"
damienturtle@hotmail.c=
o.uk [4D_Cubing]" <
>4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
te class=3D"quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pa=
dding-left:1ex">
=20
=C2=A0 =20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
Hi all,
Finally starting to catch up with d=
iscussions, and I'm happy that the set of legal moves seems to have bee=
n established. I assume that I can take the set of moves in Melinda's v=
ideo here as the moves I can use for solving? That suits me fine. I did how=
ever seem to find a different approach for that awkward type of full puzzle=
rotation that seems to be getting called a gyro move.=C2=A0word-spacing:normal">I made a rough video demonstrating it, hopefully it=
9;s clear enough. I've not learned the notation yet so I don't know=
how to write it down.
href=3D"https://youtu.be/TP8v-rXbJmc" style=3D"word-spacing:normal" target=
=3D"_blank">https://youtu.be/TP8v-rXbJmc
I hav=
e a question about this. As executed, it's 6 'moves'. However, =
after 5 moves it's in a legal state and the last move is a legal move. =
Does that mean I can stop after 5 moves? Does the answer depend on whether =
the next move I do after the gyro is to separate the two 2x2x2 cubes, reori=
ent them, and put them back together, since it's the same type of move =
and therefore they can be simplified into a single move?
v>
I've not been able to film with my usual setup recently but that=
should be back to normal soon (don't worry, just lots of tidying and o=
rganising my flat and things are a bit of a mess). I'll get some more v=
ideos up soon hopefully, including a solve once I've practised some.iv>
I also made a scrambler, unfortunately the closest t=
hing to a programming language I can use is R, which might not be common en=
ough to be useful. Rather than random moves, it generates a random (legal) =
position and outputs an image. I then assemble the puzzle into that state. =
Personally I think this works fine as I'm too busy looking for pieces t=
o take in much information and benefit from a lot of inspection time, but I=
'm interested in what others think. I understand if people are sceptica=
l of seeing the scrambled state too much, but I think it's worth the tr=
ade-off for being fully scrambled. I'll happily try to make the code av=
ailable if anyone wants, but if there's enough demand it might be bette=
r if someone makes a more portable version, it wasn't too difficult to =
code.
Matt
=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20
=20=20
--f403043613c2ca2ed205655e18a5--
From: Melinda Green <melinda@superliminal.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2018 20:15:42 -0800
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: Physical 2x2x2x2 canonical moves video
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Hello Matt,
That's a neat gyro you found. I'm glad that you performed it very slowly the first time as I had a lot of trouble copying it. I found that I had to match your colors exactly to be sure I was doing it correctly. Rather than count moves, I like to count motions since that's a better measure of effort. Yours (also 6 motions) is indeed shorter than mine which requires 7. I think Marc's FUro is the same effort as mine. I can't tell for certain, but it looks like yours may be a more efficient version of Marc's.
It's certainly always fine to use any implementation of a gyro that you like. Good question about leaving off normal moves at the end to combine with subsequent solution moves. I don't have any problem with that though it may make notation more difficult since otherwise you could record just the result of your gyro and ignore its implementation.
I don't have opinions on your scrambler other than to say that I love the idea of a truly random scramble. For offical speedsolving times, you'd probably want to have someone else to perform the scramble, regardless of method.
I've been exploring scrambling techniques too, and I really like Zander's use of restacking during scrambling as it avoids the need to perform full gyros. This led me to an interesting problem that may interest some of you: What's the shortest sequence including restacking moves that you can find that begins with a solved puzzle and ends with at least one sticker of every color on the outside? Such a sequence could be useful when scrambling. I've found some short sequences that put 6 colors on the outside but nothing satisfying yet for all 8.
I'm really looking forward to seeing your solution video.
Happy puzzling!
-Melinda
On 2/16/2018 4:57 PM, damienturtle@hotmail.co.uk [4D_Cubing] wrote:
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> Finally starting to catch up with discussions, and I'm happy that the set of legal moves seems to have been established. I assume that I can take the set of moves in Melinda's video here as the moves I can use for solving? That suits me fine. I did however seem to find a different approach for that awkward type of full puzzle rotation that seems to be getting called a gyro move. I made a rough video demonstrating it, hopefully it's clear enough. I've not learned the notation yet so I don't know how to write it down.
>
> https://youtu.be/TP8v-rXbJmc
>
> I have a question about this. As executed, it's 6 'moves'. However, after 5 moves it's in a legal state and the last move is a legal move. Does that mean I can stop after 5 moves? Does the answer depend on whether the next move I do after the gyro is to separate the two 2x2x2 cubes, reorient them, and put them back together, since it's the same type of move and therefore they can be simplified into a single move?
>
> I've not been able to film with my usual setup recently but that should be back to normal soon (don't worry, just lots of tidying and organising my flat and things are a bit of a mess). I'll get some more videos up soon hopefully, including a solve once I've practised some.
>
> I also made a scrambler, unfortunately the closest thing to a programming language I can use is R, which might not be common enough to be useful. Rather than random moves, it generates a random (legal) position and outputs an image. I then assemble the puzzle into that state. Personally I think this works fine as I'm too busy looking for pieces to take in much information and benefit from a lot of inspection tim e, but I'm interested in what others think. I understand if people are sceptical of seeing the scrambled state too much, but I think it's worth the trade-off for being fully scrambled. I'll happily try to make the code available if anyone wants, but if there's enough demand it might be better if someone makes a more portable version, it wasn't too difficult to code.
>
> Matt
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">
Hello Matt,
That's a neat gyro you found. I'm glad that you performed it very
slowly the first time as I had a lot of trouble copying it. I found
that I had to match your colors exactly to be sure I was doing it
correctly. Rather than count moves, I like to count motions since
that's a better measure of effort. Yours (also 6 motions) is indeed
shorter than mine which requires 7. I think moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
href=3D"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DhtTTn7qY35M">Marc's FUro>
is the same effort as mine. I can't tell for certain, but it looks
like yours may be a more efficient version of Marc's.
It's certainly always fine to use any implementation of a gyro that
you like. Good question about leaving off normal moves at the end to
combine with subsequent solution moves. I don't have any problem
with that though it may make notation more difficult since otherwise
you could record just the result of your gyro and ignore its
implementation.
I don't have opinions on your scrambler other than to say that I
love the idea of a truly random scramble. For offical speedsolving
times, you'd probably want to have someone else to perform the
scramble, regardless of method.
I've been exploring scrambling techniques too, and I really like
Zander's use of restacking during scrambling as it avoids the need
to perform full gyros. This led me to an interesting problem that
may interest some of you: What's the shortest sequence including
restacking moves that you can find that begins with a solved puzzle
and ends with at least one sticker of every color on the outside?
Such a sequence could be useful when scrambling. I've found some
short sequences that put 6 colors on the outside but nothing
satisfying yet for all 8.
I'm really looking forward to seeing your solution video.
Happy puzzling!
-Melinda
Hi all,
Finally starting to catch up with discussions, and I'm happy
that the set of legal moves seems to have been established. I
assume that I can take the set of moves in Melinda's video here
as the moves I can use for solving? That suits me fine. I did
however seem to find a different approach for that awkward type
of full puzzle rotation that seems to be getting called a gyro
move.=C2=A0I made a rough vide=
o
demonstrating it, hopefully it's clear enough. I've not
learned the notation yet so I don't know how to write it down.pan>
I have a question about this. As executed, it's 6 'moves'.
However, after 5 moves it's in a legal state and the last move
is a legal move. Does that mean I can stop after 5 moves? Does
the answer depend on whether the next move I do after the gyro
is to separate the two 2x2x2 cubes, reorient them, and put them
back together, since it's the same type of move and therefore
they can be simplified into a single move?
I've not been able to film with my usual setup recently but
that should be back to normal soon (don't worry, just lots of
tidying and organising my flat and things are a bit of a mess).
I'll get some more videos up soon hopefully, including a solve
once I've practised some.
I also made a scrambler, unfortunately the closest thing to a
programming language I can use is R, which might not be common
enough to be useful. Rather than random moves, it generates a
random (legal) position and outputs an image. I then assemble
the puzzle into that state. Personally I think this works fine
as I'm too busy looking for pieces to take in much information
and benefit from a lot of inspection tim e, but I'm interested
in what others think. I understand if people are sceptical of
seeing the scrambled state too much, but I think it's worth the
trade-off for being fully scrambled. I'll happily try to make
the code available if anyone wants, but if there's enough demand
it might be better if someone makes a more portable version, it
wasn't too difficult to code.
Matt
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