Thread: "Saying hello"

From: "web2k2bew" <jbaile2@rochester.rr.com>
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 18:11:04 -0000
Subject: Saying hello



Hi All,
What a delightful group! I ran across it during a Google search and
immediately came over to see what it was all about.

The link I noticed during my search was to my own 4D cube (2x2x2x2) at
http://home.rochester.rr.com/jbxroads/4cube.html

My immediate reaction is to pose my standard query about the 4D cube.

Is solving a 4D cube easier than solving a 3D one because the number
of paths to a solution grows faster than the number of positions that
must be solved?

For example, I can easily grope my way to solving the 4cube in a way
that I doubt could be done with a 3D version.

John






From: "Guy Padfield" <guy@guypadfield.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 09:24:41 +0200
Subject: RE: [MC4D] Saying hello



------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C5CB20.F4D13330
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Hello John,



I think the question about which cube is easier is a complex one. For most
people, the issue of paths to the final solution must be a red herring
because they solve incrementally, thinking mainly about placing just one or
two pieces at a time, and the global picture is irrelevant. For this they
use defined sequences, which they have either worked out for themselves or
learned, and which typically move three target pieces around in a known way
(otherwise disturbing only previously unplaced pieces). The application of
sequences is easier in a 3D cube for the simple reason that fewer
preliminary moves are generally required to bring relevant pieces into the
appropriate places for the sequence. The first time I solved a 4D cube I
used pencil and paper to jot down these moves so as to be able to reverse
them afterwards. Developing the sequences, however, is quite possibly easier
in a 4D cube. They are often longer sequences but because there is just so
much more room to play with it all feels less constrained. I can't be sure
of this because I shamelessly took advantage of Roice's help files for the
3^4 and didn't do it all from scratch. But I invented new sequences for the
4^4 and found that relatively easy. You can shovel pieces right out of the
way, operate on where they came from and move them back in again with brute
force rather than genius.



I have been bugged by a different question since I joined the group. Why is
it that of 45 3^4 solvers, only one (I think - there are unfamiliar names
for me in the list) is female and all the rest are male? Of six 4^4 solvers,
all are male. The figures are statistically significant so we should expect
there is a reason for them. I proposed the site to a woman friend of mine
who is a far better mathematician than I and she never even bothered to try
it, whereas I felt a moral obligation to solve the cube from the moment I
set eyes on it.



Guy Padfield



_____

From: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com [mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of web2k2bew
Sent: 06 October 2005 20:11
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MC4D] Saying hello



Hi All,
What a delightful group! I ran across it during a Google search and
immediately came over to see what it was all about.

The link I noticed during my search was to my own 4D cube (2x2x2x2) at
http://home.rochester.rr.com/jbxroads/4cube.html

My immediate reaction is to pose my standard query about the 4D cube.

Is solving a 4D cube easier than solving a 3D one because the number
of paths to a solution grows faster than the number of positions that
must be solved?

For example, I can easily grope my way to solving the 4cube in a way
that I doubt could be done with a 3D version.

John







SPONSORED LINKS


Cube
w3=Computer+programs&w4=Computer+video+game&w5=Jigsaw+puzzles&c=5&s=110&.sig
=Bi_sTXmtFNirOOj5Spg70Q> puzzle

9;s
Computer+programs&w4=Computer+video+game&w5=Jigsaw+puzzles&c=5&s=110&.sig=4U
uiaqO_fL-eZIzlKzIYpQ> cube

Computer
+cube&w3=Computer+programs&w4=Computer+video+game&w5=Jigsaw+puzzles&c=5&s=11
0&.sig=x6bKaFPL04DNDTO1SDm4Qg> programs


Computer
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110&.sig=irSh48MDu2CvfDoz1iso6g> video game

Jigsaw
be&w3=Computer+programs&w4=Computer+video+game&w5=Jigsaw+puzzles&c=5&s=110&.
sig=QAiJGfw3uCOxnT-v6iimVg> puzzles





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charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

osoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns=3D"http://ww=
w.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">




namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"Person=
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=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Hello John,
p>

=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> 



=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think the question about which cube =
is
easier is a complex one. For most people, the issue of paths to the final
solution must be a red herring because they solve incrementally, thinking
mainly about placing just one or two pieces at a time, and the global pictu=
re
is irrelevant. For this they use defined sequences, which they have either
worked out for themselves or learned, and which typically move three target
pieces around in a known way (otherwise disturbing only previously unplaced
pieces). The application of
sequences is easier in a 3D cube for the simple reason that fewer prelimina=
ry
moves are generally required to bring relevant pieces into the appropriate
places for the sequence. The first time I solved a 4D cube I used pencil an=
d
paper to jot down these moves so as to be able to reverse them afterwards. =
style=3D'font-style:italic'>Developing
the sequences, however, i=
s
quite possibly easier in a 4D cube. They are often longer sequences but bec=
ause
there is just so much more room to play with it all feels less constrained.=
I
can’t be sure of this because I shamelessly took advantage of Roice&#=
8217;s
help files for the 3^4 and didn’t do it all from scratch. But I inven=
ted
new sequences for the 4^4 and found that relatively easy. You can shovel pi=
eces
right out of the way, operate on where they came from and move them back in=
again
with brute force rather than genius.



=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> 



=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I have been bugged by a different ques=
tion
since I joined the group. Why is it that of 45 3^4 solvers, only one (I thi=
nk –
there are unfamiliar names for me in the list) is female and all the rest a=
re
male? Of six 4^4 solvers, all are male. The figures are statistically
significant so we should expect there is a reason for them. I proposed the =
site
to a woman friend of mine who is a far better mathematician than I and she
never even bothered to try it, whereas I felt a moral obligation to solve t=
he
cube from the moment I set eyes on it…



=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> 



=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Guy Padfie=
ld



=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> 





e=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman">






style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:=
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma>mily:Tahoma'>
4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com [mai=
lto:w:st=3D"on">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com] style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of
web2k2bew

Sent: 06 October 2005 20:11<=
br>
To: on">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [MC4D] Saying hello=
lang=3DEN-US>





'font-size:
12.0pt'> 



face=3D"Courier New">Hi All,=
size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New">Courier New"'>

What a delightful group!  I ran across =
it
during a Google search and


immediately came over to see what it was all
about.




The link I noticed during my search was to m=
y own
4D cube (2x2x2x2) at


href=3D"http://home.rochester.rr.com/jbxroads/4cube.html">http://home.roche=
ster.rr.com/jbxroads/4cube.html




My immediate reaction is to pose my standard=
query
about the 4D cube.




Is solving a 4D cube easier than solving a 3=
D one
because the number


of paths to a solution grows faster than the
number of positions that


must be solved? 



For example, I can easily grope my way to so=
lving
the 4cube in a way


that I doubt could be done with a 3D version=
.




John


















------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C5CB20.F4D13330--




From: Melinda Green <melinda@superliminal.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 01:20:22 -0700
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Saying hello



We have a female solver on the list?? I thought all of you were male.
-Melinda

Guy Padfield wrote:

>[...]
>
>I have been bugged by a different question since I joined the group. Why is
>it that of 45 3^4 solvers, only one (I think - there are unfamiliar names
>for me in the list) is female and all the rest are male? Of six 4^4 solvers,
>all are male. The figures are statistically significant so we should expect
>there is a reason for them. I proposed the site to a woman friend of mine
>who is a far better mathematician than I and she never even bothered to try
>it, whereas I felt a moral obligation to solve the cube from the moment I
>set eyes on it.
>
>




From: "Katarzyna Lazar" <kate@alpro.com.pl>
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 13:00:20 +0200
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Saying hello



Oh no Melinda!
Of course I'm female!!!

Kate
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Melinda Green"
> To: <4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 10:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [MC4D] Saying hello
>
>
> > We have a female solver on the list?? I thought all of you were male.
> > -Melinda
> >
> > Guy Padfield wrote:
> >
> > >[...]
> > >
> > >I have been bugged by a different question since I joined the group.
Why
> is
> > >it that of 45 3^4 solvers, only one (I think - there are unfamiliar
names
> > >for me in the list) is female and all the rest are male? Of six 4^4
> solvers,
> > >all are male. The figures are statistically significant so we should
> expect
> > >there is a reason for them. I proposed the site to a woman friend of
mine
> > >who is a far better mathematician than I and she never even bothered to
> try
> > >it, whereas I felt a moral obligation to solve the cube from the moment
I
> > >set eyes on it.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>




From: "web2k2bew" <jbaile2@rochester.rr.com>
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 14:32:43 -0000
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Saying hello



--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Guy Padfield" wrote:

> I have been bugged by a different question since I joined the group.
Why is
> it that of 45 3^4 solvers, only one (I think - there are unfamiliar
names
> for me in the list) is female and all the rest are male?=20

At grave risk, I will hazard a hint toward my answer to your question.
Generally, in Western Culture, (add as many qualifiers as necessary
to restrict this millieu) boys are raised with a significantly higher
tolerance for ambiguity than girls. This results in their being more
willing to insert themselves in situations in which there is no
prescribed method for finding a solution. The psychic rewards for
being sucessful in these situations results in an attitude which
welcomes the circumstances.

How are boys raised with this tolerance? An example--a son exhibits
aggressive, competitive behavior. He is told my his mother: "Nice
boys don't do that." He is told by his father: "Way to go, Tiger!"=20
Generally, girls are counseled toward the same behavior by both their
mother and their father. Faced with conflicting directions, the boy
develops a tolerance for being told to do things and not do things at
the same time. Hence, a tolerance for ambiguity.







From: "Guy" <guy@guypadfield.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 21:09:13 +0200
Subject: RE: [MC4D] Saying hello



------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C5CB83.5E7223A0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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A fascinating suggestion!=20

=20

I don=92t want to push this one too far, as human motivations are complex,
personal and frequently opaque (unlike cubes, which are non-complex,
impersonal and mostly transparent except the 5^4 which is so opaque I have
great difficulty seeing all the pieces) and generalisations can be
offensive; also, being able to solve a 4D cube is not a qualification in
psychology. But my pet theory, to be interpreted lightly, is that accepting
random, pointless and difficult challenges is a typically male way of
showing off, akin to rutting. Its transfer from physical tasks, such as
those undertaken by Hercules and Theseus (who, it should be noted, could no=
t
have escaped the labyrinth without help from Ariadne) or mediaeval jousters=
,
to mental feats is easy to understand. I suspect the male ego has been a
significant influence historically on the advancement of science. We have n=
o
idea how many people actually solved the cube =96 all we know is how many l=
et
the world know about it. And I, for one, basked in Melinda=92s praise.

=20

I teach International Baccalaureate theory of knowledge and recently had a
fun lesson where the kids had to escape from the Dark Room
(http://woolythinking.com/) on the rather weak pretext of illustrating
empirical method in science. The girls enjoyed it just as much as the boys
and were just as good at it in the lesson. But only the boys came to me the
next day to say they had spent all night finishing it (I was duly
impressed).

=20

No offence to anyone, especially not Kate! Ignorance never stopped me
speculating.

=20

Guy

=20

_____=20=20

De : 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com [mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com] De la par=
t
de web2k2bew
Envoy=E9 : vendredi, 7. octobre 2005 15:33
=C0 : 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
Objet : Re: [MC4D] Saying hello

=20

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Guy Padfield" wrote:

> I have been bugged by a different question since I joined the group.
Why is
> it that of 45 3^4 solvers, only one (I think - there are unfamiliar
names
> for me in the list) is female and all the rest are male?=20

At grave risk, I will hazard a hint toward my answer to your question.
Generally, in Western Culture, (add as many qualifiers as necessary
to restrict this millieu) boys are raised with a significantly higher
tolerance for ambiguity than girls. This results in their being more
willing to insert themselves in situations in which there is no
prescribed method for finding a solution. The psychic rewards for
being sucessful in these situations results in an attitude which
welcomes the circumstances.

How are boys raised with this tolerance? An example--a son exhibits
aggressive, competitive behavior. He is told my his mother: "Nice
boys don't do that." He is told by his father: "Way to go, Tiger!"=20
Generally, girls are counseled toward the same behavior by both their
mother and their father. Faced with conflicting directions, the boy
develops a tolerance for being told to do things and not do things at
the same time. Hence, a tolerance for ambiguity.








_____=20=20

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS=20

=20

* Visit your group "4D_Cubing
" on the web.
=20=20
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
4D_Cubing-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
=20
=20=20
* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of Service.=20

=20

_____=20=20


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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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>

namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"Person=
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EN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>A fascinating sugge=
stion!



EN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> span>



EN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I don’t want =
to
push this one too far, as human motivations are complex, personal and
frequently opaque (unlike cubes, which are non-complex, impersonal and most=
ly
transparent except the 5^4 which is so opaque I have great difficulty seein=
g
all the pieces) and generalisations can be offensive; also, being able to s=
olve
a 4D cube is not a qualification in psychology. But my pet theory, to be
interpreted lightly, is that accepting random, pointless and difficult
challenges is a typically male way of showing off, akin to rutting. Its tra=
nsfer
from physical tasks, such as those undertaken by Hercules and Theseus (who,=
it
should be noted, could not have escaped the labyrinth without help from
Ariadne) or mediaeval jousters, to mental feats is easy to understand. I
suspect the male ego has been a significant influence historically on the
advancement of science. We have no idea how many people actually solved the
cube – all we know is how many let the world know about it. And I, fo=
r
one, basked in Melinda’s praise.



EN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> span>



EN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I teach Internation=
al
Baccalaureate theory of knowledge and recently had a fun lesson where the k=
ids
had to escape from the Dark Room (htt=
p://woolythinking.com/
)
on the rather weak pretext of illustrating empirical method in science. The
girls enjoyed it just as much as the boys and were just as good at it in th=
e
lesson. But only the boys came to me the next day to say they had spent all
night finishing it (I was duly impressed).



EN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> span>



EN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>No offence to anyon=
e,
especially not Kate! Ignorance never stopped me speculating.an>



EN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> span>



EN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Guyn>



EN-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> span>





e=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman">






style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>De :pan>size=3D2 face=3DTahoma>mily:Tahoma'>
4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com [mai=
lto:w:st=3D"on">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com] style=3D'font-weight:bold'>De la part de
web2k2bew

Envoy=E9 : vendredi, 7.=
octobre
2005 15:33

=C0 : :st=3D"on">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Objet : Re: [MC4D] Sayi=
ng
hello





N-GB
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> 



N-GB
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt'>--- In 4D_Cubing@yah=
oogroups.com
,
"Guy Padfield"
<guy@g...> wrote:
w">lang=3DEN-GB style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>



> I have been bugged by a different quest=
ion
since I joined the group.


Why is

> it that of 45 3^4 solvers, only one (I =
think
- there are unfamiliar


names

> for me in the list) is female and all t=
he
rest are male?




At grave risk, I will hazard a hint toward m=
y
answer to your question.


Generally, in Western Culture, (add as many
qualifiers as necessary


to restrict this millieu) boys are raised wi=
th a
significantly higher


tolerance for ambiguity than girls.  Th=
is
results in their being more


willing to insert themselves in situations i=
n
which there is no


prescribed method for finding a solution.&nb=
sp;
The psychic rewards for


being sucessful in these situations results =
in an
attitude which


welcomes the circumstances.



How are boys raised with this tolerance?&nbs=
p; An
example--a son exhibits


aggressive, competitive behavior.  He i=
s told
my his mother: "Nice


boys don't do that."  He is told b=
y his
father: "Way to go, Tiger!"


Generally, girls are counseled toward the sa=
me
behavior by both their


mother and their father.  Faced with
conflicting directions, the boy


develops a tolerance for being told to do th=
ings
and not do things at


the same time.  Hence, a tolerance for
ambiguity.





















------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C5CB83.5E7223A0--




From: Melinda Green <melinda@superliminal.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 18:15:15 -0700
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Saying hello



I'm so glad to learn that we already have a female solver!! Would you
care to tell us your feelings both about your interest in the 4D cube
and also why you think women are so rare in these circles?

Having spent the 1st part of my life as a boy I have an intresting
perspective on the problem though I don't have an answer. I'm sure that
parental praise/pressure is an important factor, I know that as a boy I
was naturally attracted to mathematical puzzles. With respect to Guy
Padyfield, I suspect that it may indeed have something to do with
ambituity but I suspect that he may have it backwards. I was attracted
to these sorts of puzzles because of their elegance and simplicity of
domain. I liked that threre was exactly one answer and that it didn't
involve all the messiness that seemed to constitute the rest of life. So
in my case puzzles were a shelter from ambiguity. Since transitioning I
find that while I am still interested in these sorts of things I am
suddenly much more interested in the messy social things where the
problems and solutions are not at all clear. I now enjoy swimming in
ambiguity!

-Melinda

Katarzyna Lazar wrote:

> Oh no Melinda!
> Of course I'm female!!!
>
> Kate
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Melinda Green"
> > To: <4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 10:20 AM
> > Subject: Re: [MC4D] Saying hello
> >
> >
> > > We have a female solver on the list?? I thought all of you were male.
> > > -Melinda
> > >
> > > Guy Padfield wrote:
> > >
> > > >[...]
> > > >
> > > >I have been bugged by a different question since I joined the group.
> Why
> > is
> > > >it that of 45 3^4 solvers, only one (I think - there are unfamiliar
> names
> > > >for me in the list) is female and all the rest are male? Of six 4^4
> > solvers,
> > > >all are male. The figures are statistically significant so we should
> > expect
> > > >there is a reason for them. I proposed the site to a woman friend of
> mine
> > > >who is a far better mathematician than I and she never even
> bothered to
> > try
> > > >it, whereas I felt a moral obligation to solve the cube from the
> moment
> I
> > > >set eyes on it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Cube puzzle
>
> 9;s cube
>
> Computer programs
>
>
> Computer video game
>
> Jigsaw puzzles
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group "4D_Cubing
> " on the web.
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> 4D_Cubing-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service .
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>





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