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On 3/19/2013 11:20 PM, schuma wrote:
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "schuma"
>> In the latest MPUlt, there is a 120-cell_halfcut. It's the Face turning 120-cell where the cutting plane passes the center. I think it can be considered as the Pentultimate in 4D. I don't think anyone has attempted it. But I'm sure you have enough courage to make the move.
> Let me compare it with the shallow cut 120-cell, which has 7560 stickers, but only 2520 movable pieces. The 120-cell halfcut has 14400 stickers, all of which are 1C pieces: there are 14400 pieces! The situation is similar to the Big Chop (half-cut edge turning dodecahedron). Even the shape of cuts on each dodecahedral cell is like the Big Chop. But this puzzle is still face turning, so it is a proper analog of Pentultimate.
Pardon my changing the subject line, but wow, what a puzzle! Everything
moves with every move! I had completely overlooked this one. How would
you even start to develop a solution? I've learned to never say that any
puzzle is impossible, but I think you'd need some fancy tools like the
piece-finder on steroids.
This puzzle is so nasty that the stickers all look like fangs in some
alien mouth, at least with the sticker-shrink value I'm using. Guys, you
gotta try this: Download MPU
if you haven't already and load up this puzzle. Then turn the twisting
speed down to a crawl. Then click on any sticker and recoil in horror.
If anybody makes a serious attempt to solve this thing, we need to bring
in a news crew to document it.
-Melinda
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--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "schuma" <mananself@...> wrote:
In the latest MPUlt, there is a 120-cell_halfcut. It's the Face turning 120-cell where the cutting plane passes the center. I think it can be considered as the Pentultimate in 4D. I don't think anyone has attempted it. But I'm sure you have enough courage to make the move.
Let me compare it with the shallow cut 120-cell, which has 7560 stickers, but only 2520 movable pieces. The 120-cell halfcut has 14400 stickers, all of which are 1C pieces: there are 14400 pieces! The situation is similar to the Big Chop (half-cut edge turning dodecahedron). Even the shape of cuts on each dodecahedral cell is like the Big Chop. But this puzzle is still face turning, so it is a proper analog of Pentultimate.
Pardon my changing the subject line, but wow, what a puzzle!
Everything moves with every move! I had completely overlooked this
one. How would you even start to develop a solution? I've learned to
never say that any puzzle is impossible, but I think you'd need some
fancy tools like the piece-finder on steroids.
This puzzle is so nasty that the stickers all look like fangs in
some alien mouth, at least with the sticker-shrink value I'm using.
Guys, you gotta try this: Download
haven't already and load up this puzzle. Then turn the twisting
speed down to a crawl. Then click on any sticker and recoil in
horror. If anybody makes a serious attempt to solve this thing, we
need to bring in a news crew to document it.
-Melinda
--------------050001090803000807030307--
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Melinda Green
> How would you even start to develop a solution?=20
This puzzle is special in that there is no anchor in the cells that tells y=
ou the eventual colors. Andrey, here's a question for you: do we have to so=
lve the puzzle with the original color scheme, or any color scheme is fine?=
I think only you can answer this question... Let's forget about this issue=
for a moment.
If I were to solve it, I would commute the twists around almost-antipodal c=
ells. This puzzle is a half cut puzzle, so if A and B are twists around exa=
ct antipodal cells, then A, B, A', B' does nothing: there's just no overlap=
. But if A and C are twists around almost-antipodal cells, the regions they=
move has a thin layer of overlap. Then A, C, A', C' moves a few pieces. re=
lated to that thin layer. Then I would probably look for another sequence D=
as setup (sequence =3D D A B A' B' D'), to move most affected pieces into =
one hemi-hypersphere, and only leaving a few (ideally one) in the other hem=
i-hypersphere. Then commute the existing sequence with a twist that turns t=
he latter hemi-hypersphere to eventually construct a three cycle.
Then I will think about a good order to solve the pieces. This step may be =
the trickiest one for this puzzle. When you try to sort 14,400 things, you'=
d better have a good plan.=20
Once I have a plan, I will make a lot of variations of three cycles with di=
fferent setup moves to build my library of macros. Using this library, I sh=
ould think only very little to execute the plan.
Then I would try solve some pieces to polish the plan. Solve five pieces in=
a row, and see how long it takes. If we can get to one minute per pieces, =
we will need 240 hours. If we are OK with working on it 3 hours a day (whic=
h is hard to maintain in long term), it takes almost three months. If our s=
trategy is really good and takes half a minute per piece, it'll still take =
at least one month.=20
Before even start the solve, I would write some script to monitor the log f=
ile and print of percentage of completion. Every time I solve a piece, this=
number will increase by around 0.01% on average. During my solve, I would =
keep keep looking at this percentage and timing myself. I would probably se=
t a daily goal of 1% every day to keep myself motivated.=20
After three months or even more, I come here and announce it has been solve=
d.
Yeah, this is my plan. Well, I don't really plan to solve it...
No, you don't need to restore original colors. Puzzle is solved if every ce=
ll has stickers of the same color.
Andrey
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "schuma"
>
>=20
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Melinda Green
> > How would you even start to develop a solution?=20
>=20
> This puzzle is special in that there is no anchor in the cells that tells=
you the eventual colors. Andrey, here's a question for you: do we have to =
solve the puzzle with the original color scheme, or any color scheme is fin=
e? I think only you can answer this question... Let's forget about this iss=
ue for a moment.
>=20
> If I were to solve it, I would commute the twists around almost-antipodal=
cells. This puzzle is a half cut puzzle, so if A and B are twists around e=
xact antipodal cells, then A, B, A', B' does nothing: there's just no overl=
ap. But if A and C are twists around almost-antipodal cells, the regions th=
ey move has a thin layer of overlap. Then A, C, A', C' moves a few pieces. =
related to that thin layer. Then I would probably look for another sequence=
D as setup (sequence =3D D A B A' B' D'), to move most affected pieces int=
o one hemi-hypersphere, and only leaving a few (ideally one) in the other h=
emi-hypersphere. Then commute the existing sequence with a twist that turns=
the latter hemi-hypersphere to eventually construct a three cycle.
>=20
> Then I will think about a good order to solve the pieces. This step may b=
e the trickiest one for this puzzle. When you try to sort 14,400 things, yo=
u'd better have a good plan.=20
>=20
> Once I have a plan, I will make a lot of variations of three cycles with =
different setup moves to build my library of macros. Using this library, I =
should think only very little to execute the plan.
>=20
> Then I would try solve some pieces to polish the plan. Solve five pieces =
in a row, and see how long it takes. If we can get to one minute per pieces=
, we will need 240 hours. If we are OK with working on it 3 hours a day (wh=
ich is hard to maintain in long term), it takes almost three months. If our=
strategy is really good and takes half a minute per piece, it'll still tak=
e at least one month.=20
>=20
> Before even start the solve, I would write some script to monitor the log=
file and print of percentage of completion. Every time I solve a piece, th=
is number will increase by around 0.01% on average. During my solve, I woul=
d keep keep looking at this percentage and timing myself. I would probably =
set a daily goal of 1% every day to keep myself motivated.=20
>=20
> After three months or even more, I come here and announce it has been sol=
ved.
>=20
> Yeah, this is my plan. Well, I don't really plan to solve it...
>