I'm very surprised to encounter a tiny MagicTile puzzle presenting a BIG ch=
allenge ! It's "MT eucl klein {3,6} 8 v 0:0:1". It has only 12 two-color e=
lements but the commutator moves 6 elements (double 3-cycle) and has only 6=
fixed elements. To create a single 3-cycle you have to find a setup which =
moves 5 moving elements on the 6 fixed places. Possibly you can solve this =
puzzle by chance when scrambled with few moves. But if I give you a scrambl=
ing with my 28 move single 3-cycle you have to do the job.
Nice find, Eduard! I especially like that it is non-orientable in
addition to being small.
How about you create a fully scrambled log file containing your 3-cycle
hidden in the middle somewhere and then share it with the group? We will
then see who can solve it. I just confirmed that you can erase the
scrambling history from the log file by deleting everything between the
seem to give the "ding" sound when you solve it that way but it seems to
work fine otherwise.
-Melinda
On 9/13/2012 12:48 AM, Eduard wrote:
> I'm very surprised to encounter a tiny MagicTile puzzle presenting a BIG challenge ! It's "MT eucl klein {3,6} 8 v 0:0:1". It has only 12 two-color elements but the commutator moves 6 elements (double 3-cycle) and has only 6 fixed elements. To create a single 3-cycle you have to find a setup which moves 5 moving elements on the 6 fixed places. Possibly you can solve this puzzle by chance when scrambled with few moves. But if I give you a scrambling with my 28 move single 3-cycle you have to do the job.
Solved: Solved: href="http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/files/Andrey/gem3_aa.xml">http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/files/Andrey/gem3_aa.xml
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01CD9B1F.26858B30
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Perfect!
I have replayed your 18 last twists which do a single 3-cycle (compared to =
my 28 twist macro).
There is a 4 fold twist within. So I can shorten your solution from 199 to =
197 twist.
But you say that you have a 10 twist single 3-cycle. Awesome!
I have inserted you in the wiki MT HOF. Now you appear 2 times there. Pleas=
e continue!
Kind regards
Ed
----- Original Message -----=20
From: andreyastrelin=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving: tiny size / big challenge
=20=20=20=20
Solved: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/files/Andrey/gem3_a=
a.xml .
199 twists, using some 10-twist 3-cycle :)
Andrey
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Melinda Green
>
> Who will be first and who will be shortest?
> 3..2..1.. Go!
>=20
> On 9/14/2012 2:58 AM, Eduard Baumann wrote:
> > [Attachment(s) <#TopText> from Eduard Baumann included below]
> >
> > Here is a fully scrambled log file containing my 3-cycle
> > hidden in the middle somewhere.
> > I have deleted the history and also deleted the macro which is=20
> > normally saved with log file.
> > Kind regards
> > Ed
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* Melinda Green
> > *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> > *Sent:* Friday, September 14, 2012 12:47 AM
> > *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving: tiny size / big challenge
> >
> > Nice find, Eduard! I especially like that it is non-orientable in
> > addition to being small.
> >
> > How about you create a fully scrambled log file containing your
> > 3-cycle
> > hidden in the middle somewhere and then share it with the group?
> > We will
> > then see who can solve it. I just confirmed that you can erase the
> > scrambling history from the log file by deleting everything
> > between the
> >
> > doesn't
> > seem to give the "ding" sound when you solve it that way but it
> > seems to
> > work fine otherwise.
> >
> > -Melinda
> >
> > On 9/13/2012 12:48 AM, Eduard wrote:
> > > I'm very surprised to encounter a tiny MagicTile puzzle
> > presenting a BIG challenge ! It's "MT eucl klein {3,6} 8 v 0:0:1".
> > It has only 12 two-color elements but the commutator moves 6
> > elements (double 3-cycle) and has only 6 fixed elements. To create
> > a single 3-cycle you have to find a setup which moves 5 moving
> > elements on the 6 fixed places. Possibly you can solve this puzzle
> > by chance when scrambled with few moves. But if I give you a
> > scrambling with my 28 move single 3-cycle you have to do the job.
> >
>
=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01CD9B1F.26858B30
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
do a=20
single 3-cycle (compared to my 28 twist macro).
horten=20
your solution from 199 to 197 twist.
e=20
3-cycle. Awesome!
w you=20
appear 2 times there. Please continue!
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:andreyastrelin@yahoo.com">andreyastrelin
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>
7:40=20
AM
ing:=20
tiny size / big challenge
a.xml">http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/files/Andrey/gem3_aa.x=
ml=20
.
199 twists, using some 10-twist 3-cycle :)
Andrey
--- =
In
Melinda=20
Green <melinda@...> wrote:
>
> Who will be first and wh=
o=20
will be shortest?
> 3..2..1.. Go!
>
> On 9/14/2012 2:5=
8 AM,=20
Eduard Baumann wrote:
> > [Attachment(s) <#TopText> from E=
duard=20
Baumann included below]
> >
> > Here is a fully scrambl=
ed=20
log file containing my 3-cycle
> > hidden in the middle=20
somewhere.
> > I have deleted the history and also deleted the m=
acro=20
which is
> > normally saved with log file.
> > Kind=20
regards
> > Ed
> >
> > ----- Original Message=
=20
-----
> > *From:* Melinda Green <mailto:melinda@...>
&g=
t;=20
> *To:*
=20
<mailto:
>
>=20
> *Sent:* Friday, September 14, 2012 12:47 AM
> > *Subject:* =
Re:=20
[MC4D] MagicTile Solving: tiny size / big challenge
> >
> =
>=20
Nice find, Eduard! I especially like that it is non-orientable in
>=
>=20
addition to being small.
> >
> > How about you create a=
=20
fully scrambled log file containing your
> > 3-cycle
> >=
;=20
hidden in the middle somewhere and then share it with the group?
> =
>=20
We will
> > then see who can solve it. I just confirmed that you=
can=20
erase the
> > scrambling history from the log file by deleting=20
everything
> > between the
> > <Block> and=20
</Block> tags. That will make it a fair contest. It
> >=20
doesn't
> > seem to give the "ding" sound when you solve it that=
way=20
but it
> > seems to
> > work fine otherwise.
>=20
>
> > -Melinda
> >
> > On 9/13/2012 12:48 A=
M,=20
Eduard wrote:
> > > I'm very surprised to encounter a tiny=20
MagicTile puzzle
> > presenting a BIG challenge ! It's "MT eucl =
klein=20
{3,6} 8 v 0:0:1".
> > It has only 12 two-color elements but the=
=20
commutator moves 6
> > elements (double 3-cycle) and has only 6 =
fixed=20
elements. To create
> > a single 3-cycle you have to find a setu=
p=20
which moves 5 moving
> > elements on the 6 fixed places. Possibl=
y you=20
can solve this puzzle
> > by chance when scrambled with few move=
s.=20
But if I give you a
> > scrambling with my 28 move single 3-cycl=
e you=20
have to do the job.
> >
>
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01CD9B1F.26858B30--
From: Melinda Green <melinda@superliminal.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 15:32:19 -0700
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving: tiny size / big challenge
--------------030301000206030005070608
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Awesome indeed, but that's only what we've come to expect from Andrey!
So tell us, Andrey, any interesting challenges or thoughts about this
diabolic gem? When I work with it, it seems so interconnected that I
destroy any order about as fast as I can create it.
-Melinda
On 9/25/2012 4:10 AM, Eduard Baumann wrote:
>
>
> Perfect!
> I have replayed your 18 last twists which do a single 3-cycle
> (compared to my 28 twist macro).
> There is a 4 fold twist within. So I can shorten your solution from
> 199 to 197 twist.
> But you say that you have a 10 twist single 3-cycle. Awesome!
> I have inserted you in the wiki MT HOF. Now you appear 2 times there.
> Please continue!
> Kind regards
> Ed
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* andreyastrelin
> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 25, 2012 7:40 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving: tiny size / big challenge
>
> Solved:
> http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/files/Andrey/gem3_aa.xml
> .
> 199 twists, using some 10-twist 3-cycle :)
>
> Andrey
>
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
>
> >
> > Who will be first and who will be shortest?
> > 3..2..1.. Go!
> >
> > On 9/14/2012 2:58 AM, Eduard Baumann wrote:
> > > [Attachment(s) <#TopText> from Eduard Baumann included below]
> > >
> > > Here is a fully scrambled log file containing my 3-cycle
> > > hidden in the middle somewhere.
> > > I have deleted the history and also deleted the macro which is
> > > normally saved with log file.
> > > Kind regards
> > > Ed
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > *From:* Melinda Green
> > > *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> > > *Sent:* Friday, September 14, 2012 12:47 AM
> > > *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving: tiny size / big challenge
> > >
> > > Nice find, Eduard! I especially like that it is non-orientable in
> > > addition to being small.
> > >
> > > How about you create a fully scrambled log file containing your
> > > 3-cycle
> > > hidden in the middle somewhere and then share it with the group?
> > > We will
> > > then see who can solve it. I just confirmed that you can erase the
> > > scrambling history from the log file by deleting everything
> > > between the
> > >
> > > doesn't
> > > seem to give the "ding" sound when you solve it that way but it
> > > seems to
> > > work fine otherwise.
> > >
> > > -Melinda
> > >
> > > On 9/13/2012 12:48 AM, Eduard wrote:
> > > > I'm very surprised to encounter a tiny MagicTile puzzle
> > > presenting a BIG challenge ! It's "MT eucl klein {3,6} 8 v 0:0:1".
> > > It has only 12 two-color elements but the commutator moves 6
> > > elements (double 3-cycle) and has only 6 fixed elements. To create
> > > a single 3-cycle you have to find a setup which moves 5 moving
> > > elements on the 6 fixed places. Possibly you can solve this puzzle
> > > by chance when scrambled with few moves. But if I give you a
> > > scrambling with my 28 move single 3-cycle you have to do the job.
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
--------------030301000206030005070608
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
http-equiv="Content-Type">
Awesome indeed, but that's only what we've come to expect from
Andrey!
So tell us, Andrey, any interesting challenges or thoughts about
this diabolic gem? When I work with it, it seems so interconnected
that I destroy any order about as fast as I can create it.
-Melinda
wrote:
type="cite">
http-equiv="Content-Type">
twists which do a single 3-cycle (compared to my 28 twist
macro).
So I can shorten your solution from 199 to 197 twist.
twist single 3-cycle. Awesome!
MT HOF. Now you appear 2 times there. Please continue!
href="mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
25, 2012 7:40 AM
MagicTile Solving: tiny size / big challenge
.
199 twists, using some 10-twist 3-cycle :)
Andrey
--- In href="mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com,
Melinda Green <melinda@...> wrote:
>
> Who will be first and who will be shortest?
> 3..2..1.. Go!
>
> On 9/14/2012 2:58 AM, Eduard Baumann wrote:
> > [Attachment(s) <#TopText> from Eduard
Baumann included below]
> >
> > Here is a fully scrambled log file containing my
3-cycle
> > hidden in the middle somewhere.
> > I have deleted the history and also deleted the
macro which is
> > normally saved with log file.
> > Kind regards
> > Ed
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* Melinda Green <mailto:melinda@...>
> > *To:* href="mailto:4D_Cubing%40yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
<mailto: href="mailto:4D_Cubing%40yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com>
> > *Sent:* Friday, September 14, 2012 12:47 AM
> > *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving: tiny size
/ big challenge
> >
> > Nice find, Eduard! I especially like that it is
non-orientable in
> > addition to being small.
> >
> > How about you create a fully scrambled log file
containing your
> > 3-cycle
> > hidden in the middle somewhere and then share it
with the group?
> > We will
> > then see who can solve it. I just confirmed that
you can erase the
> > scrambling history from the log file by deleting
everything
> > between the
> > <Block> and </Block> tags. That will
make it a fair contest. It
> > doesn't
> > seem to give the "ding" sound when you solve it
that way but it
> > seems to
> > work fine otherwise.
> >
> > -Melinda
> >
> > On 9/13/2012 12:48 AM, Eduard wrote:
> > > I'm very surprised to encounter a tiny
MagicTile puzzle
> > presenting a BIG challenge ! It's "MT eucl klein
{3,6} 8 v 0:0:1".
> > It has only 12 two-color elements but the
commutator moves 6
> > elements (double 3-cycle) and has only 6 fixed
elements. To create
> > a single 3-cycle you have to find a setup which
moves 5 moving
> > elements on the 6 fixed places. Possibly you can
solve this puzzle
> > by chance when scrambled with few moves. But if I
give you a
> > scrambling with my 28 move single 3-cycle you have
to do the job.
> >
>
--------------030301000206030005070608--
From: "Andrey" <andreyastrelin@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 07:16:38 -0000
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving: tiny size / big challenge
Thank you! Main thought - is that colors are not all equivalent (there are =
two vertical lines with different properties). Problem with this puzzle is =
that you can't find two circles with only one common moving element. To sol=
ve it I've found two circles intersecting by two petals that were 120 deg a=
part on one circle and in opposite positions on another. Then I've tried co=
mmutator A^2 B^3 A^(-2) B^3 - and it has worked! 3-cycle, but not very conv=
enient. Nevertheless, I took it, draw schemes for it and some more (mirrore=
d, upside-down, backward). Then the strategy was simple. All petals are gro=
uped in 3 classes - two on "another" vertical, and 6 on each of two circles=
on "this" vertical (two are on both circles). So first I had to put petals=
from the first class in place - and forget about them, and then use 3-cycl=
e on one circle to sort petals on another one (and back).
So it's strange puzzle, but good plan is all you need to fight it :)
Andrey
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Melinda Green
>
> Awesome indeed, but that's only what we've come to expect from Andrey!
> So tell us, Andrey, any interesting challenges or thoughts about this=20
> diabolic gem? When I work with it, it seems so interconnected that I=20
> destroy any order about as fast as I can create it.
>=20
> -Melinda
>=20
> On 9/25/2012 4:10 AM, Eduard Baumann wrote:
> >
> >
> > Perfect!
> > I have replayed your 18 last twists which do a single 3-cycle=20
> > (compared to my 28 twist macro).
> > There is a 4 fold twist within. So I can shorten your solution from=20
> > 199 to 197 twist.
> > But you say that you have a 10 twist single 3-cycle. Awesome!
> > I have inserted you in the wiki MT HOF. Now you appear 2 times there.=20
> > Please continue!
> > Kind regards
> > Ed
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* andreyastrelin
> > *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 25, 2012 7:40 AM
> > *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving: tiny size / big challenge
> >
> > Solved:
> > http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/files/Andrey/gem3_aa.=
xml
> > .
> > 199 twists, using some 10-twist 3-cycle :)
> >
> > Andrey
> >
> > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > >
> > > Who will be first and who will be shortest?
> > > 3..2..1.. Go!
> > >
> > > On 9/14/2012 2:58 AM, Eduard Baumann wrote:
> > > > [Attachment(s) <#TopText> from Eduard Baumann included below]
> > > >
> > > > Here is a fully scrambled log file containing my 3-cycle
> > > > hidden in the middle somewhere.
> > > > I have deleted the history and also deleted the macro which is
> > > > normally saved with log file.
> > > > Kind regards
> > > > Ed
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > *From:* Melinda Green
> > > > *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> > > > *Sent:* Friday, September 14, 2012 12:47 AM
> > > > *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving: tiny size / big challe=
nge
> > > >
> > > > Nice find, Eduard! I especially like that it is non-orientable =
in
> > > > addition to being small.
> > > >
> > > > How about you create a fully scrambled log file containing your
> > > > 3-cycle
> > > > hidden in the middle somewhere and then share it with the group=
?
> > > > We will
> > > > then see who can solve it. I just confirmed that you can erase =
the
> > > > scrambling history from the log file by deleting everything
> > > > between the
> > > >
> > > > doesn't
> > > > seem to give the "ding" sound when you solve it that way but it
> > > > seems to
> > > > work fine otherwise.
> > > >
> > > > -Melinda
> > > >
> > > > On 9/13/2012 12:48 AM, Eduard wrote:
> > > > > I'm very surprised to encounter a tiny MagicTile puzzle
> > > > presenting a BIG challenge ! It's "MT eucl klein {3,6} 8 v 0:0:=
1".
> > > > It has only 12 two-color elements but the commutator moves 6
> > > > elements (double 3-cycle) and has only 6 fixed elements. To cre=
ate
> > > > a single 3-cycle you have to find a setup which moves 5 moving
> > > > elements on the 6 fixed places. Possibly you can solve this puz=
zle
> > > > by chance when scrambled with few moves. But if I give you a
> > > > scrambling with my 28 move single 3-cycle you have to do the jo=
b.
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >=20=20=20=20=20
> >
>