Archived Thread

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2012 1=
:15=20
PM

Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

7 more:

{3,7} 56-Color E0:1:0||10/26/2012||746
{3,7} 56-Colo=
r=20
F0:1:0 V1:0:0||10/26/2012||1709
{7,3} 24-Color=20
E1:0:0||10/26/2012||1086
Hyperbolic {6,4} 8 colors=20
E1:0:0||10/25/2012||166
Hyperbolic {6,4} 8 colors=20
F0:0:1||10/25/2012||46
Octahedron E0:1:0||10/24/2012||118
Octahedro=
n=20
F0:0:1||10/24/2012||23

New ranking
1. Ed 200
2. Nan 146
3=
.=20
Andrey 53
4. Damjan 40
5. Melinda 17
6. Zhao 9
7. Roice=20
2

--- In href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing%40yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=
,=20
"damjan.zagorec" <damjan.zagorec@...> wrote:
>
> Hi!>>=20
I am new in MagicTile.
> So, here are my first 14 solves:
> {=
3,6}=20
8-color E0:1:0||10/23/2012||46
> {4,10}Checkerboard=20
E0.5:0:0||10/23/2012||14
> {4,10}Checkerboard=20
V0:0:1||10/23/2012||40
> {10,4}Checkerboard=20
E1:0:0||10/23/2012||46
> {10,4}Checkerboard=20
V1.5:0:0||10/23/2012||32
> Cube F0.4:0:1 F0.8:0:1=20
||10/21/2012||377
> Cube F0.5:0:1 F1:0:1 ||10/21/2012||229
> =
Cube=20
F0.67:0:1 ||10/21/2012||78
> Cube F0:0:1||10/21/2012||59
> Cu=
be=20
F1:0:1 ||10/21/2012||26
> Octahedron V2:0:0||10/21/2012||1
>=
=20
Terrahedron E1:0:0.5||10/23/2012||2
> Terrahedron F1:0:0.5 V1:0:0.5=
=20
(Jing's Pyraminx) ||10/23/2012||62
> Tetrahedron=20
F0:0:1||10/21/2012||11
>
>
> --- In href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing%40yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=
,=20
"Eduard" <baumann@> wrote:
> >
> > Solving of MT =
hyp=20
G4GX {10,4} 8 V 1.5:0:0 ----- || 10/16/2012 || 152
> >
> =
>=20
Solving of MT hyp G4GX {10,4} 6no V 1.5:0:0 ----- || 10/17/2012 || 256>>=20
>
> > Solving of MT hyp {3,8} 10 V 0:0:1 ----- || 10/18/2012=
||=20
176
> > I'm very proud to have solved this one in only 176 moves=
. You=20
have to study the color topology very carefully to discover a hidden sing=
le 3=20
cycle.
> >
> > Solving of MT hyp {5,5} 6no V 1.33:0:0 =
-----=20
|| 10/20/2012 || 562
> > Normally I start to try in the most=20
distinguished color which is white here. I constructed a single 3-cycle w=
ith=20
62 twists and a double flipper with 334 twists. Then only I discovered th=
at=20
working in color blue is much easier : Only 4 and 48 twists resp.
>=
>=20

> > New ranking
> > 1. Ed 200
> > 2. Nan=20
146
> > 3. Andrey 53
> > 4. Melinda 17
> > 5. =
Zhao=20
9
> > 6. Roice 2
> >
> > I got my 200=20
solvings.
> >
>

<=
/BODY>

------=_NextPart_000_0014_01CDB453.C26A15F0--

From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 14:44:42 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

--3-4050687190-3563249701=:9
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Solving of MT ell sph icosa F 0:0:1 ----- || 10/23/2012 || 543

Solving of MT skew {4,6|3} 30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 10/25/2012 || 1558

Attention: cyan and aqua very similar

Solving of MT irp {4,6} 18 F 0:0:1 ----- || 10/28/2012 || 932

For the double flip of edges I made macro working only on purple/green.
For corners: there are a lot of commutators with two elements in the
intersection which must be avoided. Often you have to "traverse" the
puzzle to get in the right "orbit" near the aim.

New ranking

1. Ed 203

2. Nan 146

3. Andrey 53

4.Damjan 40

5. Melinda 17

6. Zhao 9

7. Roice 2

Here is a little graph: MT solve history oct 2012
BuE-SxbbRO-SV0ieGptpkWBpcKCvjigjtidrYgSzuFpvzPoz8KD7wAqtKvpt4/Eduard/MT%\
20history.JPG>

Ed

--3-4050687190-3563249701=:9
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Solving of MT ell sph icosa F 0:0:1 ----- || 10/23/201=
2 || 543

Solving of MT skew {4,6|3} 30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 10/25/2012 ||=
1558

Attention: cyan and aqua very similar

Solving of MT irp {=
4,6} 18 F 0:0:1 ----- || 10/28/2012 || 932

For the double flip of ed=
ges I made macro working only on purple/green. For corners: there are a lot=
of commutators with two elements in the intersection which must be avoided=
. Often you have to "traverse" the puzzle to get in the right "orbit" near =
the aim.

=3D"2">

New ranking

1. Ed 203

2. Nan 146

3. Andrey 53<=
/P>

4.Damjan 40

5. Melinda 17

6. Zhao 9

7. Roice 2

<=
/FONT>

Here is a little graph: f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/YDqNUHcHiFMhS1nIWoEJa-8OxxKSWPZKcPsEtrHJKuBuE-SxbbRO-=
SV0ieGptpkWBpcKCvjigjtidrYgSzuFpvzPoz8KD7wAqtKvpt4/Eduard/MT%20history.JPG"=
>MT solve history oct 2012

--3-4050687190-3563249701=:9--

From: Melinda Green <melinda@superliminal.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2012 15:52:06 -0700
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

--------------000208080304060400040308
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

No more low-hanging fruit? :-)
I'm glad to see you tackling the face-turning puzzles.

Here is my list of puzzles that have turned out to be particularly nasty:

* hyp {3,8} 8C V0:0:1 (Eduard - "Barbicontello")
* hyp {3,8} 10C V0:0:1 (hidden 3-cycle)
* hyp {5,5} 6C non-orientable V1.33:0:0 (Eduard)
* eucl klein {3,6} 8C V0:0:1 (Eduard - tiny size / big challenge)
* hyp {8,3} 10C F0.67:0:1 (Andrey)
* hyp {8,4} 9C E1:0:0 (Melinda)

Please keep us informed when you find particularly difficult or
interesting ones. Maybe once we identify all the exceptional puzzles we
can create a "grans slam" prize for anyone that solves them all.
-Melinda

On 10/28/2012 7:44 AM, Eduard wrote:
>
>
> Solving of MT ell sph icosa F 0:0:1 ----- || 10/23/2012 || 543
>
> Solving of MT skew {4,6|3} 30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 10/25/2012 || 1558
>
> Attention: cyan and aqua very similar
>
> Solving of MT irp {4,6} 18 F 0:0:1 ----- || 10/28/2012 || 932
>
> For the double flip of edges I made macro working only on
> purple/green. For corners: there are a lot of commutators with two
> elements in the intersection which must be avoided. Often you have to
> "traverse" the puzzle to get in the right "orbit" near the aim.
>
> New ranking
>
> 1. Ed 203
>
> 2. Nan 146
>
> 3. Andrey 53
>
> 4.Damjan 40
>
> 5. Melinda 17
>
> 6. Zhao 9
>
> 7. Roice 2
>
> Here is a little graph: MT solve history oct 2012
>
>
>
> Ed
>
>
>
>

--------------000208080304060400040308
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http-equiv="Content-Type">

No more low-hanging fruit? :-)

I'm glad to see you tackling the face-turning puzzles.

Here is my list of puzzles that have turned out to be particularly
nasty:

hyp {3,8} 8C V0:0:1 (Eduard - "Barbicontello")

hyp {3,8} 10C V0:0:1 (hidden 3-cycle)

hyp {5,5} 6C non-orientable V1.33:0:0 (Eduard)

eucl klein {3,6} 8C V0:0:1 (Eduard - tiny size / big
challenge)

hyp {8,3} 10C F0.67:0:1 (Andrey)

hyp {8,4} 9C E1:0:0 (Melinda)

Please keep us informed when you find particularly difficult or
interesting ones. Maybe once we identify all the exceptional puzzles
we can create a "grans slam" prize for anyone that solves them all.

-Melinda

On 10/28/2012 7:44 AM, Eduard wrote:

Solving of MT ell sph icosa F 0:0:1 ----- || 10/23/2012 ||
543

Solving of MT skew {4,6|3} 30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 10/25/2012 ||
1558

Attention: cyan and aqua very similar

Solving of MT irp {4,6} 18 F 0:0:1 ----- || 10/28/2012 || 932

For the double flip of edges I made macro working only on
purple/green. For corners: there are a lot of commutators with
two elements in the intersection which must be avoided. Often
you have to "traverse" the puzzle to get in the right "orbit"
near the aim.

New ranking

1. Ed 203

2. Nan 146

3. Andrey 53

4.Damjan 40

5. Melinda 17

6. Zhao 9

7. Roice 2

Here is a little graph: href="http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/YDqNUHcHiFMhS1nIWoEJa-8OxxKSWPZKcPsEtrHJKuBuE-SxbbRO-SV0ieGptpkWBpcKCvjigjtidrYgSzuFpvzPoz8KD7wAqtKvpt4/Eduard/MT%20history.JPG">MT
solve history oct 2012

Ed

--------------000208080304060400040308--

From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 18:17:30 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 11/02/2012 || 2393

Remark:
Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit.=
Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I w=
orked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!).=20

From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 13:53:02 -0700
Subject: MagicTile Solving

--------------080500010505010802000702
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

{4,5} a30 is one of my favorite IRPs. I find it to be quite beautiful and symmetric. It is the one that I showcase on themain geometry page to introduce the subject. (Third image down.) The 'b' puzzle that surprised you is less symmetric but is still a fascinating structure. It looks very much like an apartment complex. I would like to know why Nan was able to solve it with such a smaller number of twists. Unless your macros are extremely long, it doesn't seem like that can be the only difference. What do you think, Nan?

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 11:17 AM, Eduard wrote:
> Solving of MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 11/02/2012 || 2393
>
> Remark:
> Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit. Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I worked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!).

--------------080500010505010802000702
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http-equiv="Content-Type">

{4,5} a30 is one of my favorite IRPs. I find it to be quite beautiful and symmetric. It is the one that I showcase on the main geometry page to introduce the subject. (Third image down.) The 'b' puzzle that surprised you is less symmetric but is still a fascinating structure. It looks very much like an apartment complex. I would like to know why Nan was able to solve it with such a smaller number of twists. Unless your macros are extremely long, it doesn't seem like that can be the only difference. What do you think, Nan?

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 11:17 AM, Eduard wrote:

Solving of  MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 ----- ||  11/02/2012  || 2393

Remark:
Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit. Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I worked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!).

--------------080500010505010802000702--

From: "Eduard Baumann" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 22:05:22 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_0040_01CDB946.27AEAA60
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Wait.

The similar puzzle I mentioned is=20
NOT
MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1
BUT
MT irp {4,6} 12 F 0:0:1

I will attack=20
MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1
next time but I wanted study before he color topology of a30 and b30.

Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20

{4,5} a30 is one of my favorite IRPs. I find it to be quite beautiful and s=
ymmetric. It is the one that I showcase on the main geometry page to introd=
uce the subject. (Third image down.) The 'b' puzzle that surprised you is l=
ess symmetric but is still a fascinating structure. It looks very much like=
an apartment complex. I would like to know why Nan was able to solve it wi=
th such a smaller number of twists. Unless your macros are extremely long, =
it doesn't seem like that can be the only difference. What do you think, Na=
n?

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 11:17 AM, Eduard wrote:

Solving of MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 11/02/2012 || 2393

Remark:
Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit.=
Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I w=
orked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!).=20

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_0040_01CDB946.27AEAA60
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>

Wait.

The similar puzzle I mentioned is <=
/DIV>

NOT

MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1

BUT

MT irp {4,6} 12 F 0:0:1

I will attack=20

MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1

next time but I wanted study before he color topology of a30 and b30.<=
/DIV>

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com">Melinda Green

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 9:=
53=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

{4,5} a30 is one of my favorite IRPs. I find it to be q=
uite beautiful and symmetric. It is the one that I showcase on the =3D"http://superliminal.com/geometry/geometry.htm">main geometry page t=
o introduce the subject. (Third image down.) The 'b' puzzle that surprised =
you is less symmetric but is still a fascinating structure. It looks very m=
uch like an apartment complex. I would like to know why Nan was able to sol=
ve it with such a smaller number of twists. Unless your macros are extremel=
y long, it doesn't seem like that can be the only difference. What do you t=
hink, Nan?

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 11:17 AM, Eduard wrote:
V>

"">Solving of  MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 ----- ||  11/02/2012  || 2393

Remark:
Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit.=
 Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I w=
orked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!).=20

------=_NextPart_000_0040_01CDB946.27AEAA60--

From: Melinda Green <melinda@superliminal.com>
Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2012 15:52:26 -0700
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

--------------020004020604090607070504
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Ah, I missed the '6', thank you for the correction. This is one of the 3
IRPs that are as perfectly symmetric as the Platonic solids in every
way. It is also the IRP twin of the original Rubik's cube. I would still
like to know why Nan's solution is so much shorter.

I also do not understand why you see the IRP 4-5 b30 f001 as a warm-up
exercise to the IRP {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1. True they both have 30 colors and
genus 4, but they have different symmetries which I would guess would
make the 'a' puzzle the simpler of the two.

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 2:05 PM, Eduard Baumann wrote:
>
>
> Wait.
> The similar puzzle I mentioned is
> NOT
> MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1
> BUT
> MT irp {4,6} 12 F 0:0:1
> I will attack
> MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1
> next time but I wanted study before he color topology of a30 and b30.
> Ed
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Melinda Green
> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Friday, November 02, 2012 9:53 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving
>
> {4,5} a30 is one of my favorite IRPs. I find it to be quite beautiful and symmetric. It is the one that I showcase on themain geometry page to introduce the subject. (Third image down.) The 'b' puzzle that surprised you is less symmetric but is still a fascinating structure. It looks very much like an apartment complex. I would like to know why Nan was able to solve it with such a smaller number of twists. Unless your macros are extremely long, it doesn't seem like that can be the only difference. What do you think, Nan?
>
> -Melinda
>
> On 11/2/2012 11:17 AM, Eduard wrote:
>> Solving of MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 11/02/2012 || 2393
>>
>> Remark:
>> Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit. Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I worked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!).
>
>
>
>
>

--------------020004020604090607070504
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http-equiv="Content-Type">

Ah, I missed the '6', thank you for the correction. This is one of
the 3 IRPs that are as perfectly symmetric as the Platonic solids in
every way. It is also the IRP twin of the original Rubik's cube. I
would still like to know why Nan's solution is so much shorter.

I also do not understand why you see the IRP 4-5 b30 f001 as a
warm-up exercise to the IRP {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1. True they both have
30 colors and genus 4, but they have different symmetries which I
would guess would make the 'a' puzzle the simpler of the two.

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 2:05 PM, Eduard Baumann
wrote:

type="cite">

http-equiv="Content-Type">

Wait.

The similar puzzle I mentioned is

NOT

MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1

BUT

MT irp {4,6} 12 F 0:0:1

I will attack

MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1

next time but I wanted study before he color topology
of a30 and b30.

Ed
----- Original Message -----

From: title="melinda@superliminal.com"
href="mailto:melinda@superliminal.com">Melinda Green

To: moz-do-not-send="true" title="4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
href="mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 02,
2012 9:53 PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D]
MagicTile Solving
{4,5} a30 is one of my favorite IRPs. I find it to be quite beautiful and symmetric. It is the one that I showcase on the main geometry page to introduce the subject. (Third image down.) The 'b' puzzle that surprised you is less symmetric but is still a fascinating structure. It looks very much like an apartment complex. I would like to know why Nan was able to solve it with such a smaller number of twists. Unless your macros are extremely long, it doesn't seem like that can be the only difference. What do you think, Nan?

-Melinda
On 11/2/2012 11:17 AM, Eduard
wrote:
Solving of  MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 ----- ||  11/02/2012  || 2393

Remark:
Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit. Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I worked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!). 

--------------020004020604090607070504--

From: "Eduard Baumann" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 00:35:12 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CDB95B.19FE9690
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

30b was not a warming up. I did chose it by chance. I'm glad that 30a is si=
mpler.
Regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
Ah, I missed the '6', thank you for the correction. This is one of the 3 =
IRPs that are as perfectly symmetric as the Platonic solids in every way. I=
t is also the IRP twin of the original Rubik's cube. I would still like to =
know why Nan's solution is so much shorter.

I also do not understand why you see the IRP 4-5 b30 f001 as a warm-up e=
xercise to the IRP {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1. True they both have 30 colors and gen=
us 4, but they have different symmetries which I would guess would make the=
'a' puzzle the simpler of the two.

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 2:05 PM, Eduard Baumann wrote:

Wait.

The similar puzzle I mentioned is=20
NOT
MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1
BUT
MT irp {4,6} 12 F 0:0:1

I will attack=20
MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1
next time but I wanted study before he color topology of a30 and b30.

Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
{4,5} a30 is one of my favorite IRPs. I find it to be quite beautiful and s=
ymmetric. It is the one that I showcase on the main geometry page to introd=
uce the subject. (Third image down.) The 'b' puzzle that surprised you is l=
ess symmetric but is still a fascinating structure. It looks very much like=
an apartment complex. I would like to know why Nan was able to solve it wi=
th such a smaller number of twists. Unless your macros are extremely long, =
it doesn't seem like that can be the only difference. What do you think, Na=
n?

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 11:17 AM, Eduard wrote:

Solving of MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 11/02/2012 || 2393

Remark:
Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit.=
Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I w=
orked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!).=20

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CDB95B.19FE9690
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>

30b was not a warming up. I did chose it b=
y chance.=20
I'm glad that 30a is simpler.

Regards

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com">Melinda Green

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 11=
:52=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

Ah, I missed the '6', thank you for the correction. This is one of the=
3=20
IRPs that are as perfectly symmetric as the Platonic solids in every way.=
It=20
is also the IRP twin of the original Rubik's cube. I would still like to =
know=20
why Nan's solution is so much shorter.

I also do not understand wh=
y you=20
see the IRP 4-5 b30 f001 as a warm-up exercise to the IRP {4,5} a30=
F=20
0:0:1. True they both have 30 colors and genus 4, but they have different=
=20
symmetries which I would guess would make the 'a' puzzle the simpler of t=
he=20
two.

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 2:05 PM, Eduard Baumann=20
wrote:

cite">

Wait.

The similar puzzle I mentioned is NT>

NOT

MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1

BUT

MT irp {4,6} 12 F 0:0:1

I will attack=20

MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1

next time but I wanted study before he color topology of a30 and=20
b30.

Ed

----- Original Message -----

From: =20
title=3Dmelinda@superliminal.com href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.=
com"=20
moz=3D"true">Melinda Green

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroup=
s.com"=20
moz=3D"true">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 02, 201=
2 9:53=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=
=20
Solving

=20

{4,5} a30 is one of my favorite IR=
Ps. I find it to be quite beautiful and symmetric. It is the one that I sho=
wcase on the =3D"true">main geometry page to introduce the subject. (Third image dow=
n.) The 'b' puzzle that surprised you is less symmetric but is still a fasc=
inating structure. It looks very much like an apartment complex. I would li=
ke to know why Nan was able to solve it with such a smaller number of twist=
s. Unless your macros are extremely long, it doesn't seem like that can be =
the only difference. What do you think, Nan?

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 11:17 AM, Eduard wrote:
=

p=3D"">Solving of MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 11/02/2012 || 2393

Remark:
Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit.=
Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I w=
orked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!).=20

TE>

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CDB95B.19FE9690--

From: "Eduard Baumann" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 12:00:24 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_0023_01CDB9BA.D1C13C10
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Color graphs of MagicTile puzzles.

Actually I study the graphs of the MT irp {4,5} a30 and b30.

It's a good graph study exercice.

These are regular graphs (same degre for all vertices).

I started to establish the adjacencylist (for each vertex the list of verti=
ces which are joined) of the graph for a30.
This is not easy and you can make a lot of errors.
Here is the adjacencylist of a30:

1 2 3 4 5
2 1 6 7 8
3 1 9 10 11
4 1 12 14 13
5 1 15 16 17
6 2 9 18 19
7 2 20 21 22
8 2 15 23 24
9 25 6 3 26
10 3 13 27 24
11 3 29 20 28
12 4 23 20 19
13 4 30 21 10
14 4 26 22 17
15 8 28 30 5
16 25 20 28 5
17 5 29 18 14
18 17 6 21 27
19 29 6 30 12
20 7 11 12 16
21 18 13 7 27
22 25 7 24 14
23 8 27 12 26
24 10 8 22 29
25 9 22 16 30
26 14 23 28 9
27 10 16 23 18
28 21 15 26 11
29 24 17 19 11
30 25 19 13 15

Next I tried to embed this graph manually. It is very hard to find a nice e=
mbedding. I didn't succeed so far.
Now I want try the intelligent procedure "spring embedding" in Mathematica =
presented in "Computational Discret Mathematics" from Pemmaraju et al, Camb=
ridge.

I'm wondering what will be the result and how compare the two graphs a30 an=
d b30.

Questions

Are all 4-30-regular graphs playable in MT irp {4,5} x30 ?
How many exist ?
Springembedding often let emerge the picture of a polyhedron. Will it here =
let emgerge an IRP ?

Regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
Ah, I missed the '6', thank you for the correction. This is one of the 3 =
IRPs that are as perfectly symmetric as the Platonic solids in every way. I=
t is also the IRP twin of the original Rubik's cube. I would still like to =
know why Nan's solution is so much shorter.

I also do not understand why you see the IRP 4-5 b30 f001 as a warm-up e=
xercise to the IRP {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1. True they both have 30 colors and gen=
us 4, but they have different symmetries which I would guess would make the=
'a' puzzle the simpler of the two.

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 2:05 PM, Eduard Baumann wrote:

Wait.

The similar puzzle I mentioned is=20
NOT
MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1
BUT
MT irp {4,6} 12 F 0:0:1

I will attack=20
MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1
next time but I wanted study before he color topology of a30 and b30.

Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
{4,5} a30 is one of my favorite IRPs. I find it to be quite beautiful and s=
ymmetric. It is the one that I showcase on the main geometry page to introd=
uce the subject. (Third image down.) The 'b' puzzle that surprised you is l=
ess symmetric but is still a fascinating structure. It looks very much like=
an apartment complex. I would like to know why Nan was able to solve it wi=
th such a smaller number of twists. Unless your macros are extremely long, =
it doesn't seem like that can be the only difference. What do you think, Na=
n?

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 11:17 AM, Eduard wrote:

Solving of MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 11/02/2012 || 2393

Remark:
Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit.=
Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I w=
orked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!).=20

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_0023_01CDB9BA.D1C13C10
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>

Color graphs o=
f MagicTile=20
puzzles.

Actually I study the graphs of the MT irp =
{4,5} a30=20
and b30.

It's a good graph study exercice.DIV>

These are regular graphs (same degr=
e for all=20
vertices).

I started to establish the adjacencylis=
t=20
(for each vertex the list of vertices which are joined) of the graph f=
or=20
a30.

This is not easy and you can make a lot of=
=20
errors.

Here is the adjacencylist of a30:DIV>

face=3D"Courier New">1 2 3 4 5
2 1 6 =
7 8
3 1 9 10 11
4 1 12 14&nbs=
p;13
5 1 15 16 17
6 2 9 18 19=

7 2 20 21 22
8 2 15 23 24>9 25 6 3 26
10 3 13 27 24
11=
3 29 20 28
12 4 23 20 19
13&=
nbsp;4 30 21 10
14 4 26 22 17
15&n=
bsp;8 28 30 5
16 25 20 28 5
17&nbs=
p;5 29 18 14
18 17 6 21 27
19 =
;29 6 30 12
20 7 11 12 16
21 =
18 13 7 27
22 25 7 24 14
23 8=
27 12 26
24 10 8 22 29
25 9&=
nbsp;22 16 30
26 14 23 28 9
27 10&=
nbsp;16 23 18
28 21 15 26 11
29 24=
17 19 11
30 25 19 13 15

Next I tried to embed this graph manually.=
It is=20
very hard to find a nice embedding. I didn't succeed so far.

Now I want try the intelligent procedure "=
spring=20
embedding" in Mathematica presented in "Computational Discret Mathematics" =
from=20
Pemmaraju et al, Cambridge.

I'm wondering what will be the result and =
how=20
compare the two graphs a30 and b30.

Questions

Are all 4-30-regular graphs playable in MT=
irp=20
{4,5} x30 ?

How many exist ?

Springembedding often let emerge the pictu=
re of a=20
polyhedron. Will it here let emgerge an IRP ?

Regards

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com">Melinda Green

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 11=
:52=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

On 11/2/2012 2:05 PM, Eduard Baumann=20
wrote:

cite">

Wait.

The similar puzzle I mentioned is NT>

NOT

MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1

BUT

MT irp {4,6} 12 F 0:0:1

I will attack=20

MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1

next time but I wanted study before he color topology of a30 and=20
b30.

Ed

----- Original Message -----

From: =20
title=3Dmelinda@superliminal.com href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.=
com"=20
moz=3D"true">Melinda Green

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroup=
s.com"=20
moz=3D"true">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 02, 201=
2 9:53=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=
=20
Solving

=20

{4,5} a30 is one of my favorite IR=
Ps. I find it to be quite beautiful and symmetric. It is the one that I sho=
wcase on the =3D"true">main geometry page to introduce the subject. (Third image dow=
n.) The 'b' puzzle that surprised you is less symmetric but is still a fasc=
inating structure. It looks very much like an apartment complex. I would li=
ke to know why Nan was able to solve it with such a smaller number of twist=
s. Unless your macros are extremely long, it doesn't seem like that can be =
the only difference. What do you think, Nan?

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 11:17 AM, Eduard wrote:
=

p=3D"">Solving of MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 11/02/2012 || 2393

Remark:
Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit.=
Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I w=
orked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!).=20

TE>

------=_NextPart_000_0023_01CDB9BA.D1C13C10--

From: "Eduard Baumann" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 13:29:59 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CDB9C7.542DCA90
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Color graphs of MagigTile puzzes.

I inspected now also the MT infrastructure of MT irp {4,5} x30, x=3Da or b.

For the geometry there is an .wrl file. I can view it with cortona3D. But I=
can also look at with an editor. a30 is shown with 4 colors and b30 with 5=
colors.

For the puzzle there is an .xml configuration file. For the color definitio=
ns I see only very small information in 6 edgesets.
The connection with an adjacency list of the corresponding color graph ist =
not easy to see.

Interesting matter! Roice please comment.

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
Ah, I missed the '6', thank you for the correction. This is one of the 3 =
IRPs that are as perfectly symmetric as the Platonic solids in every way. I=
t is also the IRP twin of the original Rubik's cube. I would still like to =
know why Nan's solution is so much shorter.

I also do not understand why you see the IRP 4-5 b30 f001 as a warm-up e=
xercise to the IRP {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1. True they both have 30 colors and gen=
us 4, but they have different symmetries which I would guess would make the=
'a' puzzle the simpler of the two.

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 2:05 PM, Eduard Baumann wrote:

Wait.

The similar puzzle I mentioned is=20
NOT
MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1
BUT
MT irp {4,6} 12 F 0:0:1

I will attack=20
MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1
next time but I wanted study before he color topology of a30 and b30.

Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
{4,5} a30 is one of my favorite IRPs. I find it to be quite beautiful and s=
ymmetric. It is the one that I showcase on the main geometry page to introd=
uce the subject. (Third image down.) The 'b' puzzle that surprised you is l=
ess symmetric but is still a fascinating structure. It looks very much like=
an apartment complex. I would like to know why Nan was able to solve it wi=
th such a smaller number of twists. Unless your macros are extremely long, =
it doesn't seem like that can be the only difference. What do you think, Na=
n?

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 11:17 AM, Eduard wrote:

Solving of MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 11/02/2012 || 2393

Remark:
Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit.=
Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I w=
orked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!).=20

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CDB9C7.542DCA90
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>

Color graphs of MagigTile puzzes.DIV>

I inspected now also the MT infrastructure=
of MT=20
irp {4,5} x30, x=3Da or b.

For the geometry there is an .wr=
l=20
file. I can view it with cortona3D. But I can also look at with an=20
editor. a30 is shown with 4 colors and b30 with 5=20
colors.

For the puzzle there is an .xml<=
/U>=20
configuration file. For the color definitions I see only very small informa=
tion=20
in 6 edgesets.

The connection with an adjacency list of t=
he=20
corresponding color graph ist not easy to see.

Interesting matter! Roice please=20
comment.

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com">Melinda Green

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 11=
:52=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

On 11/2/2012 2:05 PM, Eduard Baumann=20
wrote:

cite">

Wait.

The similar puzzle I mentioned is NT>

NOT

MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1

BUT

MT irp {4,6} 12 F 0:0:1

I will attack=20

MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1

next time but I wanted study before he color topology of a30 and=20
b30.

Ed

----- Original Message -----

From: =20
title=3Dmelinda@superliminal.com href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.=
com"=20
moz=3D"true">Melinda Green

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroup=
s.com"=20
moz=3D"true">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 02, 201=
2 9:53=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=
=20
Solving

=20

{4,5} a30 is one of my favorite IR=
Ps. I find it to be quite beautiful and symmetric. It is the one that I sho=
wcase on the =3D"true">main geometry page to introduce the subject. (Third image dow=
n.) The 'b' puzzle that surprised you is less symmetric but is still a fasc=
inating structure. It looks very much like an apartment complex. I would li=
ke to know why Nan was able to solve it with such a smaller number of twist=
s. Unless your macros are extremely long, it doesn't seem like that can be =
the only difference. What do you think, Nan?

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 11:17 AM, Eduard wrote:
=

p=3D"">Solving of MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 11/02/2012 || 2393

Remark:
Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit.=
Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I w=
orked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!).=20

TE>

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01CDB9C7.542DCA90--

From: "Eduard Baumann" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 18:35:58 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_000E_01CDB9F2.1471F810
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Results of my color graph study for MT irp {4,5} 30.

First the adjacency list of b30:
1 2 3 4 5
2 1 6 7 8
3 1 7 9 10
4 1 7 11 12
5 1 7 13 14
6 2 9 9 15
7 2 3 4 5
8 2 13 13 16
9 3 6 6 17
10 3 11 11 18
11 4 10 10 19
12 4 14 14 20
13 5 8 8 21
14 5 12 12 22
15 6 24 23 25
16 8 26 27 28
17 9 23 25 29
18 10 26 27 29
19 11 24 26 27
20 12 23 25 28
21 13 26 27 30
22 14 23 25 30
23 15 17 20 22
24 15 19 30 30
25 15 17 20 22
26 16 18 19 21
27 16 18 19 21
28 16 20 29 29
29 17 18 28 28
30 21 22 24 24
It is interesting that here we have 12 vertices which have doubled neighbou=
rs (6, 8-14,24 and 28-30). Then also we have two pairs of vertices which ha=
ve same neighbours (1+7) and (26+27).

The adjacency list of a30 had none of these specialities.

My try to embed a30 gave the following. I hope the uploaded pictures to wik=
i are linkable.
http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_a30_manual.PNG

And now Mathematica helping me:
http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_ab30_Mtica.PNG

The spring embedding procedure is certainly performant but the graphs to be=
shown are complex and not very regular.

Regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
Ah, I missed the '6', thank you for the correction. This is one of the 3 =
IRPs that are as perfectly symmetric as the Platonic solids in every way. I=
t is also the IRP twin of the original Rubik's cube. I would still like to =
know why Nan's solution is so much shorter.

I also do not understand why you see the IRP 4-5 b30 f001 as a warm-up e=
xercise to the IRP {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1. True they both have 30 colors and gen=
us 4, but they have different symmetries which I would guess would make the=
'a' puzzle the simpler of the two.

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 2:05 PM, Eduard Baumann wrote:

Wait.

The similar puzzle I mentioned is=20
NOT
MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1
BUT
MT irp {4,6} 12 F 0:0:1

I will attack=20
MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1
next time but I wanted study before he color topology of a30 and b30.

Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
{4,5} a30 is one of my favorite IRPs. I find it to be quite beautiful and s=
ymmetric. It is the one that I showcase on the main geometry page to introd=
uce the subject. (Third image down.) The 'b' puzzle that surprised you is l=
ess symmetric but is still a fascinating structure. It looks very much like=
an apartment complex. I would like to know why Nan was able to solve it wi=
th such a smaller number of twists. Unless your macros are extremely long, =
it doesn't seem like that can be the only difference. What do you think, Na=
n?

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 11:17 AM, Eduard wrote:

Solving of MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 11/02/2012 || 2393

Remark:
Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit.=
Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I w=
orked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!).=20

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_000E_01CDB9F2.1471F810
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>

Results of my color graph study for MT =
irp {4,5}=20
30.

First the adjacency list of=20
b30:

face=3D"Courier New">1 2 3 4 5
2 1 6 =
7 8
3 1 7 9 10
4 1 7 11 =
12
5 1 7 13 14
6 2 9 9 15
=
7 2 3 4 5
8 2 13 13 16
9 =
;3 6 6 17
10 3 11 11 18
11 4&=
nbsp;10 10 19
12 4 14 14 20
13 5&n=
bsp;8 8 21
14 5 12 12 22
15 6 =
;24 23 25
16 8 26 27 28
17 9 =
23 25 29
18 10 26 27 29
19 11 =
;24 26 27
20 12 23 25 28
21 13&nbs=
p;26 27 30
22 14 23 25 30
23 15&nb=
sp;17 20 22
24 15 19 30 30
25 15&n=
bsp;17 20 22
26 16 18 19 21
27 16&=
nbsp;18 19 21
28 16 20 29 29
29 17=
18 28 28
30 21 22 24 24

It is interesting that here we have 12<=
/U>=20
vertices which have doubled neighbours (6, 8-14,24 and 28-30). =
Then=20
also we have two pairs of vertices which have same neighbours=
=20
(1+7) and (26+27).

The adjacency list of a30 had none =
of these=20
specialities.

My try to embed a30 gave the following. I hope the uploaded pictures t=
o=20
wiki are linkable.

style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-=
family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: DE-CH; mso-fareast-language: =
DE; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">href=3D"http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_a30_manual.PNG">=
color=3D#800080>http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_a30_manu=
al.PNG

style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-=
family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: DE-CH; mso-fareast-language: =
DE; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">color=3D#800080 size=3D2 face=3DArial>style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-=
family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: DE-CH; mso-fareast-language: =
DE; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">href=3D"http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_ab30_Mtica.PNG">=
http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_ab30_Mtica.PNG>

style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-=
family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: DE-CH; mso-fareast-language: =
DE; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">color=3D#000000 size=3D2>style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-=
family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: DE-CH; mso-fareast-language: =
DE; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">

style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-=
family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: DE-CH; mso-fareast-language: =
DE; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial>style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-=
family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: DE-CH; mso-fareast-language: =
DE; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">The=20
spring embedding procedure is certainly performant but the graphs to be=20
shown are complex and not very regular.

style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-=
family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: DE-CH; mso-fareast-language: =
DE; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">color=3D#000000 size=3D2>style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-=
family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: DE-CH; mso-fareast-language: =
DE; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">

style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-=
family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: DE-CH; mso-fareast-language: =
DE; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial>style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-=
family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: DE-CH; mso-fareast-language: =
DE; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">Regards

style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-=
family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: DE-CH; mso-fareast-language: =
DE; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial>style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-=
family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: DE-CH; mso-fareast-language: =
DE; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com">Melinda Green

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 11=
:52=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

On 11/2/2012 2:05 PM, Eduard Baumann=20
wrote:

cite">

Wait.

The similar puzzle I mentioned is NT>

NOT

MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1

BUT

MT irp {4,6} 12 F 0:0:1

I will attack=20

MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1

next time but I wanted study before he color topology of a30 and=20
b30.

Ed

----- Original Message -----

From: =20
title=3Dmelinda@superliminal.com href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.=
com"=20
moz=3D"true">Melinda Green

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroup=
s.com"=20
moz=3D"true">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 02, 201=
2 9:53=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=
=20
Solving

=20

{4,5} a30 is one of my favorite IR=
Ps. I find it to be quite beautiful and symmetric. It is the one that I sho=
wcase on the =3D"true">main geometry page to introduce the subject. (Third image dow=
n.) The 'b' puzzle that surprised you is less symmetric but is still a fasc=
inating structure. It looks very much like an apartment complex. I would li=
ke to know why Nan was able to solve it with such a smaller number of twist=
s. Unless your macros are extremely long, it doesn't seem like that can be =
the only difference. What do you think, Nan?

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 11:17 AM, Eduard wrote:
=

p=3D"">Solving of MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 11/02/2012 || 2393

Remark:
Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit.=
Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I w=
orked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!).=20

TE>

------=_NextPart_000_000E_01CDB9F2.1471F810--

From: Melinda Green <melinda@superliminal.com>
Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2012 11:55:31 -0700
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

--------------090209090405070009090803
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

The face adjacency graphs are the duels of the vertex graphs that you
can decode from the WRL files. Note also that for all vertices in each
IRPs are geometrically identical, and not just topologically identical.
That means that using only affine transformations (rotate and translate
only) you can take any vertex to any other vertex and end up with the
same structure. That is not the case for most or all of Roice's
hyperbolic puzzles.

To properly examine them in 3D, you don't want to just load a cell file
into Cortona, instead you should use MT for the IRPs that Roice supports
so far and toggle Settings > Skew Polyhedra > Show as Skew. For the rest
of the IRPs you should load them from my table
because in both
programs you can interactively add and remove tilings in the X, Y, and Z
directions. In MT the keys are x, y, and z for removing layers and X, Y,
and Z to add them. Stereo viewing is very helpful once you learn to view
them that way.

Regarding your graphs, various programs can help you to relax them but
you may need to interact with them to find nicely symmetrical views. I
wrote some code to do something like that a long time ago when studying
flexible polyhedra but it is currently hard-coded to deal with just one
model. You can try it here
. These are
hard problems.

-Melinda

On 11/3/2012 10:35 AM, Eduard Baumann wrote:
>
>
> Results of my _color graph study for MT irp {4,5} 30_.
> First the _adjacency list of b30_:
> 1 2 3 4 5
> 2 1 6 7 8
> 3 1 7 9 10
> 4 1 7 11 12
> 5 1 7 13 14
> 6 2 9 9 15
> 7 2 3 4 5
> 8 2 13 13 16
> 9 3 6 6 17
> 10 3 11 11 18
> 11 4 10 10 19
> 12 4 14 14 20
> 13 5 8 8 21
> 14 5 12 12 22
> 15 6 24 23 25
> 16 8 26 27 28
> 17 9 23 25 29
> 18 10 26 27 29
> 19 11 24 26 27
> 20 12 23 25 28
> 21 13 26 27 30
> 22 14 23 25 30
> 23 15 17 20 22
> 24 15 19 30 30
> 25 15 17 20 22
> 26 16 18 19 21
> 27 16 18 19&n bsp;21
> 28 16 20 29 29
> 29 17 18 28 28
> 30 21 22 24 24
> It is interesting that here we have _12_ vertices which have _doubled
> neighbours_ (6, 8-14,24 and 28-30). Then also we have two _pairs_ of
> vertices which have _same_ neighbours (1+7) and (26+27).
> The _adjacency list of a30_ had none of these specialities.
> My try to embed a30 gave the following. I hope the uploaded pictures
> to wiki are linkable.
> http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_a30_manual.PNG
> And now Mathematica helping me:
> http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_ab30_Mtica.PNG
> The spring embedding procedure is certainly performant but the graphs
> to be shown are complex and not very regular.
> Regards
> Ed
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Melinda Green
> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Friday, November 02, 2012 11:52 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving
>
> Ah, I missed the '6', thank you for the correction. This is one of
> the 3 IRPs that are as perfectly symmetric as the Platonic solids
> in every way. It is also the IRP twin of the original Rubik's
> cube. I would still like to know why Nan's solution is so much
> shorter.
>
> I also do not understand why you see the IRP 4-5 b30 f001 as a
> warm-up exercise to the IRP {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1. True they both have
> 30 colors and genus 4, but they have different symmetries which I
> would guess would make the 'a' puzzle the simpler of the two.
>
> -Melinda
>
> On 11/2/2012 2:05 PM, Eduard Baumann wrote:
>> Wait.
>> The similar puzzle I mentioned is
>> NOT
>> MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1
>> BUT
>> MT irp {4,6} 12 F 0:0:1
>> I will attack
>> MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1
>> next time but I wanted study before he color topology of a30 and b30.
>> Ed
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Melinda Green
>> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, November 02, 2012 9:53 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving
>>
>> {4,5} a30 is one of my favorite IRPs. I find it to be quite beautiful and symmetric. It is the one that I showcase on themain geometry page to introduce the subject. (Third image down.) The 'b' puzzle that surprised you is less symmetric but is still a fascinating structure. It looks very much like an apartment complex. I would like to know why Nan was able to solve it with such a smaller number of twists. Unless your macros are extremely long, it doesn't seem like that can be the only difference. What do you think, Nan?
>>
>> -Melinda
>>
>> On 11/2/2012 11:17 AM, Eduard wrote:
>>> Solving of MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 11/02/2012 || 2393
>>>
>>> Remark:
>>> Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit. Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I worked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!).
>>
>
>
>
>
>

--------------090209090405070009090803
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http-equiv="Content-Type">

The face adjacency graphs are the duels of the vertex graphs that
you can decode from the WRL files. Note also that for all vertices
in each IRPs are geometrically identical, and not just topologically
identical. That means that using only affine transformations (rotate
and translate only) you can take any vertex to any other vertex and
end up with the same structure. That is not the case for most or all
of Roice's hyperbolic puzzles.

To properly examine them in 3D, you don't want to just load a cell
file into Cortona, instead you should use MT for the IRPs that Roice
supports so far and toggle Settings > Skew Polyhedra > Show as
Skew. For the rest of the IRPs you should load them from href="http://superliminal.com/geometry/infinite/infinite.htm">my
table because in both programs you can interactively add and
remove tilings in the X, Y, and Z directions. In MT the keys are x,
y, and z for removing layers and X, Y, and Z to add them. Stereo
viewing is very helpful once you learn to view them that way.

Regarding your graphs, various programs can help you to relax them
but you may need to interact with them to find nicely symmetrical
views. I wrote some code to do something like that a long time ago
when studying flexible polyhedra but it is currently hard-coded to
deal with just one model. You can try it href="http://superliminal.com/geometry/flexible/applet/applet.htm">here.
These are hard problems.

-Melinda

On 11/3/2012 10:35 AM, Eduard Baumann
wrote:

type="cite">

http-equiv="Content-Type">

Results of my color graph
study for MT irp {4,5} 30.

First the adjacency list of
b30:

1 2 3 4 5

2 1 6 7 8

3 1 7 9 10

4 1 7 11 12

5 1 7 13 14

6 2 9 9 15

7 2 3 4 5

8 2 13 13 16

9 3 6 6 17

10 3 11 11 18

11 4 10 10 19

12 4 14 14 20

13 5 8 8 21

14 5 12 12 22

15 6 24 23 25

16 8 26 27 28

17 9 23 25 29

18 10 26 27 29

19 11 24 26 27

20 12 23 25 28

21 13 26 27 30

22 14 23 25 30

23 15 17 20 22

24 15 19 30 30

25 15 17 20 22

26 16 18 19 21

27 16 18 19&n bsp;21

28 16 20 29 29

29 17 18 28 28

30 21 22 24 24

It is interesting that here we
have 12 vertices which have doubled neighbours
(6, 8-14,24 and 28-30). Then also we have two pairs of
vertices which have same neighbours (1+7) and (26+27).

The adjacency list of a30
had none of these specialities.

My try to embed a30 gave the following. I hope the
uploaded pictures to wiki are linkable.

href="http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_a30_manual.PNG"> color="#800080">http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_a30_manual.PNG

And
now Mathematica helping me:

face="Arial" size="2"> moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_ab30_Mtica.PNG">http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_ab30_Mtica.PNG

style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE:
12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman';
mso-ansi-language: DE-CH; mso-fareast-language: DE;
mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">

size="2">The spring embedding
procedure is certainly performant but the graphs to be
shown are complex and not very regular.

style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt;
mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman';
mso-ansi-language: DE-CH; mso-fareast-language: DE;
mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">

size="2">Regards

size="2">Ed

----- Original Message -----

From: title="melinda@superliminal.com"
href="mailto:melinda@superliminal.com">Melinda Green

To: moz-do-not-send="true" title="4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
href="mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 02,
2012 11:52 PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D]
MagicTile Solving

Ah, I missed the '6', thank you for the correction. This is
one of the 3 IRPs that are as perfectly symmetric as the
Platonic solids in every way. It is also the IRP twin of the
original Rubik's cube. I would still like to know why Nan's
solution is so much shorter.

I also do not understand why you see the IRP 4-5 b30 f001
as a warm-up exercise to the IRP {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1. True
they both have 30 colors and genus 4, but they have
different symmetries which I would guess would make the 'a'
puzzle the simpler of the two.

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 2:05 PM, Eduard
Baumann wrote:

cite="mid:2E57BCBBE6364BAC9AA0B19A59480BB4@EduardII"
type="cite">

Wait.

The similar puzzle I
mentioned is

NOT

MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1

BUT

MT irp {4,6} 12 F 0:0:1

I will attack

MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1

next time but I wanted study before he color
topology of a30 and b30.

Ed

----- Original Message -----

From:
title="melinda@superliminal.com"
href="mailto:melinda@superliminal.com" moz="true">Melinda
Green

To: moz-do-not-send="true"
title="4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
href="mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com" moz="true">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday,
November 02, 2012 9:53 PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D]
MagicTile Solving

{4,5} a30 is one of my favorite IRPs. I find it to be quite beautiful and symmetric. It is the one that I showcase on the main geometry page to introduce the subject. (Third image down.) The 'b' puzzle that surprised you is less symmetric but is still a fascinating structure. It looks very much like an apartment complex. I would like to know why Nan was able to solve it with such a smaller number of twists. Unless your macros are extremely long, it doesn't seem like that can be the only difference. What do you think, Nan?

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 11:17 AM,
Eduard wrote:

type="cite">

Solving of MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 11/02/2012 || 2393

Remark:
Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit. Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I worked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!).

--------------090209090405070009090803--

From: "Eduard Baumann" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2012 20:45:58 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CDBA04.3A9BD8A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Interesting, but be aware that the Mathematica embeddings are two-dimension=
al !

Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2012 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
The face adjacency graphs are the duels of the vertex graphs that you can=
decode from the WRL files. Note also that for all vertices in each IRPs ar=
e geometrically identical, and not just topologically identical. That means=
that using only affine transformations (rotate and translate only) you can=
take any vertex to any other vertex and end up with the same structure. Th=
at is not the case for most or all of Roice's hyperbolic puzzles.

To properly examine them in 3D, you don't want to just load a cell file i=
nto Cortona, instead you should use MT for the IRPs that Roice supports so =
far and toggle Settings > Skew Polyhedra > Show as Skew. For the rest of th=
e IRPs you should load them from my table because in both programs you can =
interactively add and remove tilings in the X, Y, and Z directions. In MT t=
he keys are x, y, and z for removing layers and X, Y, and Z to add them. St=
ereo viewing is very helpful once you learn to view them that way.

Regarding your graphs, various programs can help you to relax them but yo=
u may need to interact with them to find nicely symmetrical views. I wrote =
some code to do something like that a long time ago when studying flexible =
polyhedra but it is currently hard-coded to deal with just one model. You c=
an try it here. These are hard problems.

-Melinda

On 11/3/2012 10:35 AM, Eduard Baumann wrote:

Results of my color graph study for MT irp {4,5} 30.

First the adjacency list of b30:
1 2 3 4 5
2 1 6 7 8
3 1 7 9 10
4 1 7 11 12
5 1 7 13 14
6 2 9 9 15
7 2 3 4 5
8 2 13 13 16
9 3 6 6 17
10 3 11 11 18
11 4 10 10 19
12 4 14 14 20
13 5 8 8 21
14 5 12 12 22
15 6 24 23 25
16 8 26 27 28
17 9 23 25 29
18 10 26 27 29
19 11 24 26 27
20 12 23 25 28
21 13 26 27 30
22 14 23 25 30
23 15 17 20 22
24 15 19 30 30
25 15 17 20 22
26 16 18 19 21
27 16 18 19&n bsp;21
28 16 20 29 29
29 17 18 28 28
30 21 22 24 24
It is interesting that here we have 12 vertices which have doubled neig=
hbours (6, 8-14,24 and 28-30). Then also we have two pairs of vertices whic=
h have same neighbours (1+7) and (26+27).

The adjacency list of a30 had none of these specialities.

My try to embed a30 gave the following. I hope the uploaded pictures to=
wiki are linkable.
http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_a30_manual.PNG

And now Mathematica helping me:
http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_ab30_Mtica.PNG

The spring embedding procedure is certainly performant but the graphs t=
o be shown are complex and not very regular.

Regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
Ah, I missed the '6', thank you for the correction. This is one of th=
e 3 IRPs that are as perfectly symmetric as the Platonic solids in every wa=
y. It is also the IRP twin of the original Rubik's cube. I would still like=
to know why Nan's solution is so much shorter.

I also do not understand why you see the IRP 4-5 b30 f001 as a warm-=
up exercise to the IRP {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1. True they both have 30 colors and=
genus 4, but they have different symmetries which I would guess would make=
the 'a' puzzle the simpler of the two.

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 2:05 PM, Eduard Baumann wrote:

Wait.

The similar puzzle I mentioned is=20
NOT
MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1
BUT
MT irp {4,6} 12 F 0:0:1

I will attack=20
MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1
next time but I wanted study before he color topology of a30 and b3=
0.

Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
{4,5} a30 is one of my favorite IRPs. I find it to be quite beautiful and s=
ymmetric. It is the one that I showcase on the main geometry page to introd=
uce the subject. (Third image down.) The 'b' puzzle that surprised you is l=
ess symmetric but is still a fascinating structure. It looks very much like=
an apartment complex. I would like to know why Nan was able to solve it wi=
th such a smaller number of twists. Unless your macros are extremely long, =
it doesn't seem like that can be the only difference. What do you think, Na=
n?

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 11:17 AM, Eduard wrote:

Solving of MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 11/02/2012 || 2393

Remark:
Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit.=
Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I w=
orked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!).=20

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CDBA04.3A9BD8A0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>

Interesting, but be aware that the Mathema=
tica=20
embeddings are two-dimensional !

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com">Melinda Green

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2012 =
7:55=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

The face adjacency graphs are the duels of the vertex graphs that you =
can=20
decode from the WRL files. Note also that for all vertices in each IRPs a=
re=20
geometrically identical, and not just topologically identical. That means=
that=20
using only affine transformations (rotate and translate only) you can tak=
e any=20
vertex to any other vertex and end up with the same structure. That is no=
t the=20
case for most or all of Roice's hyperbolic puzzles.

To properly ex=
amine=20
them in 3D, you don't want to just load a cell file into Cortona, instead=
you=20
should use MT for the IRPs that Roice supports so far and toggle Settings=
>=20
Skew Polyhedra > Show as Skew. For the rest of the IRPs you should loa=
d=20
them from tm">my=20
table because in both programs you can interactively add and remove=20
tilings in the X, Y, and Z directions. In MT the keys are x, y, and z for=
=20
removing layers and X, Y, and Z to add them. Stereo viewing is very helpf=
ul=20
once you learn to view them that way.

Regarding your graphs, vario=
us=20
programs can help you to relax them but you may need to interact with the=
m to=20
find nicely symmetrical views. I wrote some code to do something like tha=
t a=20
long time ago when studying flexible polyhedra but it is currently hard-c=
oded=20
to deal with just one model. You can try it href=3D"http://superliminal.com/geometry/flexible/applet/applet.htm">here=
.=20
These are hard problems.

-Melinda

On 11/3/2012 10:35 AM, Eduard Baumann=20
wrote:

cite">

Results of my color graph study for=
MT irp=20
{4,5} 30.

First the adjacency list of=20
b30:

face=3D"Courier New">1 2 3 4 5
2 1 6&n=
bsp;7 8
3 1 7 9 10
4 1 7 11&n=
bsp;12
5 1 7 13 14
6 2 9 9 15=

7 2 3 4 5
8 2 13 13 16
9&=
nbsp;3 6 6 17
10 3 11 11 18
11&nbs=
p;4 10 10 19
12 4 14 14 20
13 =
;5 8 8 21
14 5 12 12 22
15 6&=
nbsp;24 23 25
16 8 26 27 28
17 9&n=
bsp;23 25 29
18 10 26 27 29
19 11&=
nbsp;24 26 27
20 12 23 25 28
21 13=
26 27 30
22 14 23 25 30
23 1=
5 17 20 22
24 15 19 30 30
25 =
15 17 20 22
26 16 18 19 21
27 =
;16 18 19&n=20
bsp;21
28 16 20 29 29
29 17 18 =
;28 28
30 21 22 24 24

It is interesting that here we have >12=20
vertices which have doubled neighbours (6, 8-14,24 and=20
28-30). Then also we have two pairs of vertices which have=
=20
same neighbours (1+7) and (26+27).

The adjacency list of a30 had n=
one of=20
these specialities.

My try to embed a30 gave the following. I hope the uploaded pictur=
es to=20
wiki are linkable.

=20
href=3D"http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_a30_manual.P=
NG"=20
moz=3D"true"> color=3D#800080>http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_a30_=
manual.PNG

style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> =

ONT=20
size=3D2 face=3DArial>And now Mathematica helping me:V>

ONT=20
color=3D#800080 size=3D2 face=3DArial>s
New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> href=3D"http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_ab30_Mtica.P=
NG"=20
moz=3D"true">http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_ab30_Mt=
ica.PNG

ONT=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D2> style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">>
size=3D2 face=3DArial>

ONT=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial> style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">The spring em=
bedding=20
procedure is certainly performant but the graphs to be shown are=20
complex and not very regular.

ONT=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D2> style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">>

ONT=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial> style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Regards>

ONT=20
color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial> style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">EdNT>

----- Original Message -----

From: =20
title=3Dmelinda@superliminal.com href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.=
com"=20
moz=3D"true">Melinda Green

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroup=
s.com"=20
moz=3D"true">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 02, 201=
2 11:52=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=
=20
Solving

=20

Ah, I missed the '6', thank you for the correction. This is one of=
the=20
3 IRPs that are as perfectly symmetric as the Platonic solids in ever=
y=20
way. It is also the IRP twin of the original Rubik's cube. I would st=
ill=20
like to know why Nan's solution is so much shorter.

I also do =
not=20
understand why you see the IRP 4-5 b30 f001 as a warm-up exerci=
se to=20
the IRP {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1. True they both have 30 colors and genus 4,=
but=20
they have different symmetries which I would guess would make the 'a'=
=20
puzzle the simpler of the two.

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 2:05 PM, Eduard Baumann=20
wrote:

type=3D"cite">

Wait.

The similar puzzle I mentioned is=
=20

NOT

MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1

BUT

MT irp {4,6} 12 F 0:0:1

I will attack=20

MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1

next time but I wanted study before he color topology of a30 a=
nd=20
b30.

Ed

----- Original Message ----- V>

From:=
title=3Dmelinda@superliminal.com href=3D"mailto:melinda@superlimi=
nal.com"=20
moz=3D"true">Melinda Green

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"=20
moz=3D"true">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 02,=
2012=20
9:53 PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicT=
ile=20
Solving

=20

{4,5} a30 is one of my favorit=
e IRPs. I find it to be quite beautiful and symmetric. It is the one that I=
showcase on the moz=3D"true">main geometry page to introduce the subject. (Third image =
down.) The 'b' puzzle that surprised you is less symmetric but is still a f=
ascinating structure. It looks very much like an apartment complex. I would=
like to know why Nan was able to solve it with such a smaller number of tw=
ists. Unless your macros are extremely long, it doesn't seem like that can =
be the only difference. What do you think, Nan?

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 11:17 AM, Eduard=20
wrote:

wrap=3D"">Solving of MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 11/02/2012 || 23=
93

Remark:
Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit.=
Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I w=
orked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!).=20

OTE>

TE>

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CDBA04.3A9BD8A0--

From: Roice Nelson <roice3@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 21:54:46 -0600
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

--047d7b16042b480a1104cdb772e8
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Ed,

I like your study and posts on these topics. I was surprised to see that
although these two IRPs look quite different, their element counts and
genus are identical.

Faces: 30
Edges: 60
Vertices: 24
Euler Characteristic: -6
Genus: 4

So both of your face adjacency graphs will naturally live on the surface of
a 4-torus (four holed donut).

You asked for comments on the edgesets in these files. You are right that
edgesets are how MagicTile encodes the coloring, so they are indirectly
responsible for the resulting face adjacency graphs. But it would not
really be possible to directly relate one to the other, as there are lots
of interim calculations done. An analogy that pops to mind is to think of
edgesets as an organism's DNA and the adjacency graphs as the organism's
visible traits.

An "edgeset" is the set of CCW 0-indexed edges to reflect across to go from
the central white tile to an identified copy. As an example, here is a
picture showing how the "3:3:3" edgeset in the {7,3} config tells the
program to go from the central white tile to copies.

http://www.gravitation3d.com/magictile/pics/73/%7B7,3%7D_reflections.png

(By default, reflections are done across all the initial edges, so "3:3:3"
actually represents 4 reflections, applied in each of the 7 directions,
encoding 7 copies). There are further nuances to the config. I tried to
make it a useful/compact description, though it's surely imperfect. If
there was enough interest, I could try to write up a better description of
all the details.

seeya,
Roice

On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 7:29 AM, Eduard Baumann wrote:

> **
>
>
> Color graphs of MagigTile puzzes.
>
> I inspected now also the MT infrastructure of MT irp {4,5} x30, x=3Da or =
b.
>
> For the *geometry* there is an .*wrl* file. I can view it with cortona3D.
> But I can also look at with an editor. a30 is shown with 4 colors
> and b30 with 5 colors.
>
> For the *puzzle* there is an .*xml* configuration file. For the color
> definitions I see only very small information in 6 *edgesets*.
> The connection with an adjacency list of the corresponding color graph is=
t
> not easy to see.
>
> Interesting matter! Roice please comment.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Melinda Green
> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Friday, November 02, 2012 11:52 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving
>
>
>
> Ah, I missed the '6', thank you for the correction. This is one of the 3
> IRPs that are as perfectly symmetric as the Platonic solids in every way.
> It is also the IRP twin of the original Rubik's cube. I would still like =
to
> know why Nan's solution is so much shorter.
>
> I also do not understand why you see the IRP 4-5 b30 f001 as a warm-up
> exercise to the IRP {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1. True they both have 30 colors and
> genus 4, but they have different symmetries which I would guess would mak=
e
> the 'a' puzzle the simpler of the two.
>
> -Melinda
>
> On 11/2/2012 2:05 PM, Eduard Baumann wrote:
>
> Wait.
>
> The similar puzzle I mentioned is
> NOT
> MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1
> BUT
> MT irp {4,6} 12 F 0:0:1
>
> I will attack
> MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1
> next time but I wanted study before he color topology of a30 and b30.
>
> Ed
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Melinda Green
> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Friday, November 02, 2012 9:53 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving
>
>
>
> {4,5} a30 is one of my favorite IRPs. I find it to be quite beautiful and=
symmetric. It is the one that I showcase on the main geometry page /superliminal.com/geometry/geometry.htm> to introduce the subject. (Third i=
mage down.) The 'b' puzzle that surprised you is less symmetric but is stil=
l a fascinating structure. It looks very much like an apartment complex. I =
would like to know why Nan was able to solve it with such a smaller number =
of twists. Unless your macros are extremely long, it doesn't seem like that=
can be the only difference. What do you think, Nan?
>
> -Melinda
>
>
> On 11/2/2012 11:17 AM, Eduard wrote:
>
> Solving of MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 11/02/2012 || 2393
>
> Remark:
> Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging frui=
t. Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I=
worked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!).
>
>
>
>
>
>=20
>

--047d7b16042b480a1104cdb772e8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Ed,

I like your study and posts on these topics. =A0I=
was surprised to see that although these two IRPs look quite different, th=
eir element counts and genus are identical.

Faces:=
30

Edges: 60

Vertices: 24
Euler Characteristic: -6
Genus: 4
v>

So both of your face adjacency graphs will naturally live =
on the surface of a 4-torus (four holed donut).

You asked for comments on the edgesets in these files. =
=A0You are right that edgesets are how MagicTile encodes the coloring, so t=
hey are indirectly responsible for the resulting face adjacency graphs. =A0=
But it would not really be possible to directly relate one to the other, as=
there are lots of interim calculations done. =A0An analogy that pops to mi=
nd is to think of edgesets as an organism's DNA and the adjacency graph=
s as the organism's visible traits.

rif">An "edgeset" is the set of CCW 0-indexed=A0s=3D"" style=3D"font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif">edgespan style=3D"font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif">=A0to=A0pan class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif">reflec=
t=A0acro=
ss to go from the central white tile to an identified copy. =A0As an exampl=
e, here is a picture showing how the "3:3:3 sans-serif">" edgeset in the {7,3} config tells the program to go fro=
m the central white tile to copies.=A0

://www.gravitation3d.com/magictile/pics/73/%7B7,3%7D_reflections.png">http:=
//www.gravitation3d.com/magictile/pics/73/%7B7,3%7D_reflections.pngt face=3D"arial, sans-serif">

ont face=3D"arial, sans-serif">(By default, reflections are done across all=
the initial edges, so "3:3:3" actually represents 4 reflections,=
applied in each of the 7 directions, encoding 7 copies). =A0There are furt=
her nuances to the config. =A0I tried to make it a useful/compact descripti=
on, though it's surely imperfect. =A0If there was enough interest, I co=
uld try to write up a better description of all the details.

seeya,iv>

Roice

=3D"arial, sans-serif">

On Sat, Nov 3=
, 2012 at 7:29 AM, Eduard Baumann <aumann@mcnet.ch" target=3D"_blank">baumann@mcnet.ch> wrote:r>

1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
Color graphs of MagigTile puzzes.

=A0

I inspected now also the MT infrastructure of MT=
=20
irp {4,5} x30, x=3Da or b.

=A0

For the geometry there is an .wrl=20
file. I can view it with cortona3D. But I can also look at with an=20
editor.=A0a30 is shown with 4 colors and=A0b30=A0with 5=20
colors.

=A0

For the puzzle there is an .xml=20
configuration file. For the color definitions I see only very small informa=
tion=20
in 6 edgesets.

The connection with an adjacency list of the=20
corresponding color graph ist not easy to see.

=A0

Interesting matter! Roice please=20
comment.

=A0

=A0
-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px">

----- Original Message -----

From:=20
.com" target=3D"_blank">Melinda Green

To: ps.com" href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com" target=3D"_blank">4D_Cubi=
ng@yahoogroups.com
Sent: =
Friday, November 02, 2012 11:52=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=20
Solving

=A0=20
Ah, I missed the '6', thank you for the correction. This is on=
e of the 3=20
IRPs that are as perfectly symmetric as the Platonic solids in every way.=
It=20
is also the IRP twin of the original Rubik's cube. I would still like=
to know=20
why Nan's solution is so much shorter.

I also do not understan=
d why you=20
see the IRP 4-5 b30=A0 f001 as a warm-up exercise to the IRP {4,5} a30 F=
=20
0:0:1. True they both have 30 colors and genus 4, but they have different=
=20
symmetries which I would guess would make the 'a' puzzle the simp=
ler of the=20
two.

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 2:05 PM, Eduard Baumann=20
wrote:
Wait.

=A0
The similar puzzle I mentioned is v>

NOT

MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1

BUT

MT irp {4,6}=A012 F 0:0:1

=A0

I will attack=20

MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1

next time but I wanted study before he color topology of a30 and=20
b30.

=A0

Ed

=A0
----- Original Message -----

From: le=3D"melinda@superliminal.com" href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">Melinda Green

To: groups.com" href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com" target=3D"_blank">4D_=
Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012=
9:53=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=20
Solving

=A0=20
{4,5} a30 is one of my favorite IRPs. I find it to be quite=
 beautiful and symmetric. It is the one that I showcase on the ttp://superliminal.com/geometry/geometry.htm" target=3D"_blank">main geomet=
ry page to introduce the subject. (Third image down.) The 'b' p=
uzzle that surprised you is less symmetric but is still a fascinating struc=
ture. It looks very much like an apartment complex. I would like to know wh=
y Nan was able to solve it with such a smaller number of twists. Unless you=
r macros are extremely long, it doesn't seem like that can be the only =
difference. What do you think, Nan?

-Melinda
On 11/2/2012 11:17 AM, Eduard wrote:
Solving of  MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 -=
---- ||  11/02/2012  || 2393

Remark:
Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit.=
 Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 =
colors I worked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!).=
=20
e>
=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20

--047d7b16042b480a1104cdb772e8--

From: Melinda Green <melinda@superliminal.com>
Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2012 20:28:35 -0800
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

--------------060504090506090409030900
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Well yes, all graphs are 2D, and it is far simpler to do these sorts of
things in 2D when possible. Even so it is a very difficult problem to
find any hidden symmetries and structure within large graphs unless you
already know something about them. I recently corresponded with Michael
Anttila who caught my eye with a nice page describing the "Devil's
Algorithm " which he
describes as sort of the opposite of God's Algorithm. He had tried
various things to find structure within the 2^3 state graph but didn't
get very far.

-Melinda

On 11/3/2012 12:45 PM, Eduard Baumann wrote:
>
>
> Interesting, but be aware that the Mathematica embeddings are
> two-dimensional !
> Ed
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Melinda Green
> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 03, 2012 7:55 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving
>
> The face adjacency graphs are the duels of the vertex graphs that
> you can decode from the WRL files. Note also that for all vertices
> in each IRPs are geometrically identical, and not just
> topologically identical. That means that using only affine
> transformations (rotate and translate only) you can take any
> vertex to any other vertex and end up with the same structure.
> That is not the case for most or all of Roice's hyperbolic puzzles.
>
> To properly examine them in 3D, you don't want to just load a cell
> file into Cortona, instead you should use MT for the IRPs that
> Roice supports so far and toggle Settings > Skew Polyhedra > Show
> as Skew. For the rest of the IRPs you should load them from my
> table
> because in both programs you can interactively add and remove
> tilings in the X, Y, and Z directions. In MT the keys are x, y,
> and z for removing layers and X, Y, and Z to add them. Stereo
> viewing is very helpful once you learn to view them that way.
>
> Regarding your graphs, various programs can help you to relax them
> but you may need to interact with them to find nicely symmetrical
> views. I wrote some code to do something like that a long time ago
> when studying flexible polyhedra but it is currently hard-coded to
> deal with just one model. You can try it here
> .
> These are hard problems.
>
> -Melinda
>
> On 11/3/2012 10:35 AM, Eduard Baumann wrote:
>> Results of my _color graph study for MT irp {4,5} 30_.
>> First the _adjacency list of b30_:
>> 1 2 3 4 5
>> 2 1 6 7 8
>> 3 1 7 9 10
>> 4 1 7 11 12
>> 5 1 7 13 14
>> 6 2 9 9 15
>> 7 2 3 4 5
>> 8 2 13 13 16
>> 9 3 6 6 17
>> 10 3 11 11 18
>> 11 4 10 10 19
>> 12 4 14 14 20
>> 13 5 8 8 21
>> 14 5 12 12 22
>> 15 6 24 23 25
>> 16 8 26 27 28
>> 17 9 23 25 29
>> 18 10 26 27 29
>> 19 11 24 26 27
>> 20 12 23 25 28
>> 21 13 26 27 30
>> 22 14 23 25 30
>> 23 15 17 20 22
>> 24 15 19 30 30
>> 25 15 17 20 22
>> 26 16 18 19 21
>> 27 16 18 19&n bsp;21
>> 28 16 20 29 29
>> 29 17 18 28 28
>> 30 21 22 24 24
>> It is interesting that here we have _12_ vertices which have
>> _doubled neighbours_ (6, 8-14,24 and 28-30). Then also we have
>> two _pairs_ of vertices which have _same_ neighbours (1+7) and
>> (26+27).
>> The _adjacency list of a30_ had none of these specialities.
>> My try to embed a30 gave the following. I hope the uploaded
>> pictures to wiki are linkable.
>> http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_a30_manual.PNG
>> And now Mathematica helping me:
>> http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_ab30_Mtica.PNG
>> The spring embedding procedure is certainly performant but the
>> graphs to be shown are complex and not very regular.
>> Regards
>> Ed
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Melinda Green
>> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, November 02, 2012 11:52 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving
>>
>> Ah, I missed the '6', thank you for the correction. This is
>> one of the 3 IRPs that are as perfectly symmetric as the
>> Platonic solids in every way. It is also the IRP twin of the
>> original Rubik's cube. I would still like to know why Nan's
>> solution is so much shorter.
>>
>> I also do not understand why you see the IRP 4-5 b30 f001 as
>> a warm-up exercise to the IRP {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1. True they
>> both have 30 colors and genus 4, but they have different
>> symmetries which I would guess would make the 'a' puzzle the
>> simpler of the two.
>>
>> -Melinda
>>
>> On 11/2/2012 2:05 PM, Eduard Baumann wrote:
>>> Wait.
>>> The similar puzzle I mentioned is
>>> NOT
>>> MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1
>>> BUT
>>> MT irp {4,6} 12 F 0:0:1
>>> I will attack
>>> MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1
>>> next time but I wanted study before he color topology of a30
>>> and b30.
>>> Ed
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* Melinda Green
>>> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Friday, November 02, 2012 9:53 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving
>>>
>>> {4,5} a30 is one of my favorite IRPs. I find it to be quite beautiful and symmetric. It is the one that I showcase on themain geometry page to introduce the subject. (Third image down.) The 'b' puzzle that surprised you is less symmetric but is still a fascinating structure. It looks very much like an apartment complex. I would like to know why Nan was able to solve it with such a smaller number of twists. Unless your macros are extremely long, it doesn't seem like that can be the only difference. What do you think, Nan?
>>>
>>> -Melinda
>>>
>>> On 11/2/2012 11:17 AM, Eduard wrote:
>>>> Solving of MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 11/02/2012 || 2393
>>>>
>>>> Remark:
>>>> Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit. Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I worked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!).
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>

--------------060504090506090409030900
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http-equiv="Content-Type">

Well yes, all graphs are 2D, and it is far simpler to do these sorts
of things in 2D when possible. Even so it is a very difficult
problem to find any hidden symmetries and structure within large
graphs unless you already know something about them. I recently
corresponded with Michael Anttila who caught my eye with a nice page
describing the "Devil's
Algorithm" which he describes as sort of the opposite of God's
Algorithm. He had tried various things to find structure within the
2^3 state graph but didn't get very far.

-Melinda

On 11/3/2012 12:45 PM, Eduard Baumann
wrote:

type="cite">

http-equiv="Content-Type">

Interesting, but be aware that
the Mathematica embeddings are two-dimensional !

Ed
----- Original Message -----

From: title="melinda@superliminal.com"
href="mailto:melinda@superliminal.com">Melinda Green

To: moz-do-not-send="true" title="4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
href="mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, November
03, 2012 7:55 PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D]
MagicTile Solving
The face adjacency graphs are the duels of the vertex
graphs that you can decode from the WRL files. Note also
that for all vertices in each IRPs are geometrically
identical, and not just topologically identical. That means
that using only affine transformations (rotate and translate
only) you can take any vertex to any other vertex and end up
with the same structure. That is not the case for most or
all of Roice's hyperbolic puzzles.

To properly examine them in 3D, you don't want to just load
a cell file into Cortona, instead you should use MT for the
IRPs that Roice supports so far and toggle Settings >
Skew Polyhedra > Show as Skew. For the rest of the IRPs
you should load them from href="http://superliminal.com/geometry/infinite/infinite.htm">my
table because in both programs you can interactively
add and remove tilings in the X, Y, and Z directions. In MT
the keys are x, y, and z for removing layers and X, Y, and Z
to add them. Stereo viewing is very helpful once you learn
to view them that way.

Regarding your graphs, various programs can help you to
relax them but you may need to interact with them to find
nicely symmetrical views. I wrote some code to do something
like that a long time ago when studying flexible polyhedra
but it is currently hard-coded to deal with just one model.
You can try it href="http://superliminal.com/geometry/flexible/applet/applet.htm">here.
These are hard problems.

-Melinda

On 11/3/2012 10:35 AM, Eduard
Baumann wrote:

cite="mid:90C60748A8144287991AB81B5FEBF9AE@EduardII"
type="cite">

Results of my color
graph study for MT irp {4,5} 30.

First the adjacency
list of b30:

1 2 3 4 5

2 1 6 7 8

3 1 7 9 10

4 1 7 11 12

5 1 7 13 14

6 2 9 9 15

7 2 3 4 5

8 2 13 13 16

9 3 6 6 17

10 3 11 11 18

11 4 10 10 19

12 4 14 14 20

13 5 8 8 21

14 5 12 12 22

15 6 24 23 25

16 8 26 27 28

17 9 23 25 29

18 10 26 27 29

19 11 24 26 27

20 12 23 25 28

21 13 26 27 30

22 14 23 25 30

23 15 17 20 22

24 15 19 30 30

25 15 17 20 22

26 16 18 19 21

27 16 18 19&n bsp;21

28 16 20 29 29

29 17 18 28 28

30 21 22 24 24

It is interesting that here
we have 12 vertices which have doubled
neighbours (6, 8-14,24 and 28-30). Then also we
have two pairs of vertices which have same
neighbours (1+7) and (26+27).

The adjacency list
of a30 had none of these specialities.

My try to embed a30 gave the following. I hope the
uploaded pictures to wiki are linkable.

href="http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_a30_manual.PNG"
moz="true">http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_a30_manual.PNG

And now
Mathematica helping me:

size="2"> moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_ab30_Mtica.PNG"
moz="true">http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_ab30_Mtica.PNG

style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman';
FONT-SIZE: 12pt">

size="2">The spring embedding
procedure is certainly performant but the graphs
to be shown are complex and not very regular.

style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE:
12pt">

size="2">Regards

size="2">Ed

----- Original Message -----

From:
title="melinda@superliminal.com"
href="mailto:melinda@superliminal.com" moz="true">Melinda
Green

To: moz-do-not-send="true"
title="4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
href="mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com" moz="true">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday,
November 02, 2012 11:52 PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D]
MagicTile Solving

Ah, I missed the '6', thank you for the correction.
This is one of the 3 IRPs that are as perfectly
symmetric as the Platonic solids in every way. It is
also the IRP twin of the original Rubik's cube. I
would still like to know why Nan's solution is so much
shorter.

I also do not understand why you see the IRP 4-5 b30
f001 as a warm-up exercise to the IRP {4,5} a30 F
0:0:1. True they both have 30 colors and genus 4, but
they have different symmetries which I would guess
would make the 'a' puzzle the simpler of the two.

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 2:05 PM,
Eduard Baumann wrote:

cite="mid:2E57BCBBE6364BAC9AA0B19A59480BB4@EduardII"
type="cite">

Wait.

The similar puzzle I
mentioned is

NOT

MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1

BUT

MT irp {4,6} 12 F 0:0:1

I will attack

MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1

next time but I wanted study before he
color topology of a30 and b30.

Ed

----- Original Message
-----

From:
title="melinda@superliminal.com"
href="mailto:melinda@superliminal.com"
moz="true">Melinda Green

To: moz-do-not-send="true"
title="4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
href="mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
moz="true">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday,
November 02, 2012 9:53 PM

Subject: Re:
[MC4D] MagicTile Solving

{4,5} a30 is one of my favorite IRPs. I find it to be quite beautiful and symmetric. It is the one that I showcase on the main geometry page to introduce the subject. (Third image down.) The 'b' puzzle that surprised you is less symmetric but is still a fascinating structure. It looks very much like an apartment complex. I would like to know why Nan was able to solve it with such a smaller number of twists. Unless your macros are extremely long, it doesn't seem like that can be the only difference. What do you think, Nan?

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 11:17
AM, Eduard wrote:

type="cite">

Solving of MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 11/02/2012 || 2393

Remark:
Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit. Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I worked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!).

--------------060504090506090409030900--

From: "Eduard Baumann" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 09:11:21 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CDBB35.8585C650
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks very much for these comments. I learn a lot.
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Roice Nelson=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 4:54 AM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
Hi Ed,

I like your study and posts on these topics. I was surprised to see that=
although these two IRPs look quite different, their element counts and gen=
us are identical.

Faces: 30
Edges: 60
Vertices: 24
Euler Characteristic: -6
Genus: 4

So both of your face adjacency graphs will naturally live on the surface =
of a 4-torus (four holed donut).

You asked for comments on the edgesets in these files. You are right tha=
t edgesets are how MagicTile encodes the coloring, so they are indirectly r=
esponsible for the resulting face adjacency graphs. But it would not reall=
y be possible to directly relate one to the other, as there are lots of int=
erim calculations done. An analogy that pops to mind is to think of edgese=
ts as an organism's DNA and the adjacency graphs as the organism's visible =
traits.

An "edgeset" is the set of CCW 0-indexed edges to reflect across to go fr=
om the central white tile to an identified copy. As an example, here is a =
picture showing how the "3:3:3" edgeset in the {7,3} config tells the progr=
am to go from the central white tile to copies.=20

http://www.gravitation3d.com/magictile/pics/73/%7B7,3%7D_reflections.png

(By default, reflections are done across all the initial edges, so "3:3:3=
" actually represents 4 reflections, applied in each of the 7 directions, e=
ncoding 7 copies). There are further nuances to the config. I tried to ma=
ke it a useful/compact description, though it's surely imperfect. If there=
was enough interest, I could try to write up a better description of all t=
he details.

seeya,
Roice

On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 7:29 AM, Eduard Baumann wrote:

Color graphs of MagigTile puzzes.

I inspected now also the MT infrastructure of MT irp {4,5} x30, x=3Da o=
r b.

For the geometry there is an .wrl file. I can view it with cortona3D. B=
ut I can also look at with an editor. a30 is shown with 4 colors and b30 wi=
th 5 colors.

For the puzzle there is an .xml configuration file. For the color defin=
itions I see only very small information in 6 edgesets.
The connection with an adjacency list of the corresponding color graph =
ist not easy to see.

Interesting matter! Roice please comment.

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
Ah, I missed the '6', thank you for the correction. This is one of th=
e 3 IRPs that are as perfectly symmetric as the Platonic solids in every wa=
y. It is also the IRP twin of the original Rubik's cube. I would still like=
to know why Nan's solution is so much shorter.

I also do not understand why you see the IRP 4-5 b30 f001 as a warm-=
up exercise to the IRP {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1. True they both have 30 colors and=
genus 4, but they have different symmetries which I would guess would make=
the 'a' puzzle the simpler of the two.

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 2:05 PM, Eduard Baumann wrote:

Wait.

The similar puzzle I mentioned is=20
NOT
MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1
BUT
MT irp {4,6} 12 F 0:0:1

I will attack=20
MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1
next time but I wanted study before he color topology of a30 and b3=
0.

Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
{4,5} a30 is one of my favorite IRPs. I find it to be quite beautiful and s=
ymmetric. It is the one that I showcase on the main geometry page to introd=
uce the subject. (Third image down.) The 'b' puzzle that surprised you is l=
ess symmetric but is still a fascinating structure. It looks very much like=
an apartment complex. I would like to know why Nan was able to solve it wi=
th such a smaller number of twists. Unless your macros are extremely long, =
it doesn't seem like that can be the only difference. What do you think, Na=
n?

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 11:17 AM, Eduard wrote:

Solving of MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 11/02/2012 || 2393

Remark:
Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit.=
Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I w=
orked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!).=20

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CDBB35.8585C650
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>

Thanks very much for these comments. I lea=
rn a=20
lot.

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
Roice Nelson=
=20

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 4:=
54=20
AM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

Hi Ed,

I like your study and posts on these topics. I was surprised t=
o see=20
that although these two IRPs look quite different, their element counts a=
nd=20
genus are identical.

Faces: 30

Edges: 60

Vertices: 24

Euler Characteristic: -6

Genus: 4

So both of your face adjacency graphs will naturally live on the sur=
face=20
of a 4-torus (four holed donut).

You asked for comments on the edgesets in these files. You are=
=20
right that edgesets are how MagicTile encodes the coloring, so they are=20
indirectly responsible for the resulting face adjacency graphs. But=
it=20
would not really be possible to directly relate one to the other, as ther=
e are=20
lots of interim calculations done. An analogy that pops to mind is =
to=20
think of edgesets as an organism's DNA and the adjacency graphs as the=20
organism's visible traits.

An "e=
dgeset"=20
is the set of CCW 0-indexed style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px">edgesN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px"> to SPAN> style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px">reflectPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px"> across to =
go from=20
the central white tile to an identified copy. As an example, here i=
s a=20
picture showing how the "3:3:3" e=
dgeset=20
in the {7,3} config tells the program to go from the central white tile t=
o=20
copies.

href=3D"http://www.gravitation3d.com/magictile/pics/73/%7B7,3%7D_reflecti=
ons.png">http://www.gravitation3d.com/magictile/pics/73/%7B7,3%7D_reflectio=
ns.png face=3D"arial, sans-serif">

(By default, reflections are done a=
cross=20
all the initial edges, so "3:3:3" actually represents 4 reflections, appl=
ied=20
in each of the 7 directions, encoding 7 copies). There are further=
=20
nuances to the config. I tried to make it a useful/compact descript=
ion,=20
though it's surely imperfect. If there was enough interest, I could=
try=20
to write up a better description of all the details.

seeya,

Roice

On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 7:29 AM, Eduard Baumann <=
SPAN=20
dir=3Dltr>< target=3D_blank>baumann@mcnet.ch> wrote:

=
Color graphs of MagigTile puzzes.

I inspected now also the MT infrastructure of M=
T irp=20
{4,5} x30, x=3Da or b.

For the geometry there is an .wrl=
file.=20
I can view it with cortona3D. But I can also look at with an=20
editor. a30 is shown with 4 colors and b30 with 5=20
colors.

For the puzzle there is an .xml=20
configuration file. For the color definitions I see only very small=20
information in 6 edgesets.

The connection with an adjacency list of the=20
corresponding color graph ist not easy to see.

Interesting matter! Roice please comment.>

----- Original Message -----

From: =20
title=3Dmelinda@superliminal.com href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.=
com"=20
target=3D_blank>Melinda Green

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroup=
s.com"=20
target=3D_blank>4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 02, 201=
2 11:52=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=
=20
Solving

=20

Ah, I missed the '6', thank you for the correction. This is one of=
the=20
3 IRPs that are as perfectly symmetric as the Platonic solids in ever=
y=20
way. It is also the IRP twin of the original Rubik's cube. I would st=
ill=20
like to know why Nan's solution is so much shorter.

I also do =
not=20
understand why you see the IRP 4-5 b30 f001 as a warm-up exerci=
se to=20
the IRP {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1. True they both have 30 colors and genus 4,=
but=20
they have different symmetries which I would guess would make the 'a'=
=20
puzzle the simpler of the two.

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 2:05 PM, Eduard Baumann wrote:

Wait.

The similar puzzle I mentioned is DIV>

NOT

MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1

BUT

MT irp {4,6} 12 F 0:0:1

I will attack=20

MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1

next time but I wanted study before he color topology of a30 a=
nd=20
b30.

Ed

----- Original Message ----- V>

From:=
title=3Dmelinda@superliminal.com href=3D"mailto:melinda@superlimi=
nal.com"=20
target=3D_blank>Melinda Green

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"=20
target=3D_blank>4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 02,=
2012=20
9:53 PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicT=
ile=20
Solving

=20

{4,5} a30 is one of my favorite IRPs. I find it to be q=
uite beautiful and symmetric. It is the one that I showcase on the =3D"http://superliminal.com/geometry/geometry.htm" target=3D_blank>main geo=
metry page to introduce the subject. (Third image down.) The 'b' puzzle=
that surprised you is less symmetric but is still a fascinating structure.=
It looks very much like an apartment complex. I would like to know why Nan=
was able to solve it with such a smaller number of twists. Unless your mac=
ros are extremely long, it doesn't seem like that can be the only differenc=
e. What do you think, Nan?

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 11:17 AM, Eduard wrote:

Solving of MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0=
:1 ----- || 11/02/2012 || 2393

Remark:
Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit.=
Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I w=
orked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!).=20

KQUOTE>

width=3D"1">

<=
/DIV>

------=_NextPart_000_0010_01CDBB35.8585C650--

From: "Eduard Baumann" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 09:23:02 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_0019_01CDBB37.278D9D00
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yes, very nice describing !
Thanks.
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 5:28 AM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
Well yes, all graphs are 2D, and it is far simpler to do these sorts of t=
hings in 2D when possible. Even so it is a very difficult problem to find a=
ny hidden symmetries and structure within large graphs unless you already k=
now something about them. I recently corresponded with Michael Anttila who =
caught my eye with a nice page describing the "Devil's Algorithm" which he =
describes as sort of the opposite of God's Algorithm. He had tried various =
things to find structure within the 2^3 state graph but didn't get very far=
.

-Melinda

On 11/3/2012 12:45 PM, Eduard Baumann wrote:

Interesting, but be aware that the Mathematica embeddings are two-dimen=
sional !

Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2012 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
The face adjacency graphs are the duels of the vertex graphs that you=
can decode from the WRL files. Note also that for all vertices in each IRP=
s are geometrically identical, and not just topologically identical. That m=
eans that using only affine transformations (rotate and translate only) you=
can take any vertex to any other vertex and end up with the same structure=
. That is not the case for most or all of Roice's hyperbolic puzzles.

To properly examine them in 3D, you don't want to just load a cell fi=
le into Cortona, instead you should use MT for the IRPs that Roice supports=
so far and toggle Settings > Skew Polyhedra > Show as Skew. For the rest o=
f the IRPs you should load them from my table because in both programs you =
can interactively add and remove tilings in the X, Y, and Z directions. In =
MT the keys are x, y, and z for removing layers and X, Y, and Z to add them=
. Stereo viewing is very helpful once you learn to view them that way.

Regarding your graphs, various programs can help you to relax them bu=
t you may need to interact with them to find nicely symmetrical views. I wr=
ote some code to do something like that a long time ago when studying flexi=
ble polyhedra but it is currently hard-coded to deal with just one model. Y=
ou can try it here. These are hard problems.

-Melinda

On 11/3/2012 10:35 AM, Eduard Baumann wrote:

Results of my color graph study for MT irp {4,5} 30.

First the adjacency list of b30:
1 2 3 4 5
2 1 6 7 8
3 1 7 9 10
4 1 7 11 12
5 1 7 13 14
6 2 9 9 15
7 2 3 4 5
8 2 13 13 16
9 3 6 6 17
10 3 11 11 18
11 4 10 10 19
12 4 14 14 20
13 5 8 8 21
14 5 12 12 22
15 6 24 23 25
16 8 26 27 28
17 9 23 25 29
18 10 26 27 29
19 11 24 26 27
20 12 23 25 28
21 13 26 27 30
22 14 23 25 30
23 15 17 20 22
24 15 19 30 30
25 15 17 20 22
26 16 18 19 21
27 16 18 19&n bsp;21
28 16 20 29 29
29 17 18 28 28
30 21 22 24 24
It is interesting that here we have 12 vertices which have doubled =
neighbours (6, 8-14,24 and 28-30). Then also we have two pairs of vertices =
which have same neighbours (1+7) and (26+27).

The adjacency list of a30 had none of these specialities.

My try to embed a30 gave the following. I hope the uploaded picture=
s to wiki are linkable.
http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_a30_manual.PNG

And now Mathematica helping me:
http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_ab30_Mtica.PNG

The spring embedding procedure is certainly performant but the grap=
hs to be shown are complex and not very regular.

Regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
Ah, I missed the '6', thank you for the correction. This is one o=
f the 3 IRPs that are as perfectly symmetric as the Platonic solids in ever=
y way. It is also the IRP twin of the original Rubik's cube. I would still =
like to know why Nan's solution is so much shorter.

I also do not understand why you see the IRP 4-5 b30 f001 as a w=
arm-up exercise to the IRP {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1. True they both have 30 colors=
and genus 4, but they have different symmetries which I would guess would =
make the 'a' puzzle the simpler of the two.

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 2:05 PM, Eduard Baumann wrote:

Wait.

The similar puzzle I mentioned is=20
NOT
MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1
BUT
MT irp {4,6} 12 F 0:0:1

I will attack=20
MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1
next time but I wanted study before he color topology of a30 an=
d b30.

Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
{4,5} a30 is one of my favorite IRPs. I find it to be quite beautiful and s=
ymmetric. It is the one that I showcase on the main geometry page to introd=
uce the subject. (Third image down.) The 'b' puzzle that surprised you is l=
ess symmetric but is still a fascinating structure. It looks very much like=
an apartment complex. I would like to know why Nan was able to solve it wi=
th such a smaller number of twists. Unless your macros are extremely long, =
it doesn't seem like that can be the only difference. What do you think, Na=
n?

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 11:17 AM, Eduard wrote:

Solving of MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 11/02/2012 || 2393

Remark:
Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit.=
Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I w=
orked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!).=20

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_0019_01CDBB37.278D9D00
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>

Yes, very nice describing !

Thanks.

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com">Melinda Green

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 5:=
28=20
AM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

Well yes, all graphs are 2D, and it is far simpler to do these sorts o=
f=20
things in 2D when possible. Even so it is a very difficult problem to fin=
d any=20
hidden symmetries and structure within large graphs unless you already kn=
ow=20
something about them. I recently corresponded with Michael Anttila who ca=
ught=20
my eye with a nice page describing the " href=3D"http://anttila.ca/michael/devilsalgorithm/">Devil's Algorithm=
" which=20
he describes as sort of the opposite of God's Algorithm. He had tried var=
ious=20
things to find structure within the 2^3 state graph but didn't get very=20
far.

-Melinda

On 11/3/2012 12:45 PM, Eduard Baumann=20
wrote:

cite">

Interesting, but be aware that the Mat=
hematica=20
embeddings are two-dimensional !

Ed

----- Original Message -----

From: =20
title=3Dmelinda@superliminal.com href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.=
com"=20
moz=3D"true">Melinda Green

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroup=
s.com"=20
moz=3D"true">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2=
012=20
7:55 PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=
=20
Solving

=20

The face adjacency graphs are the duels of the vertex graphs that =
you=20
can decode from the WRL files. Note also that for all vertices in eac=
h=20
IRPs are geometrically identical, and not just topologically identica=
l.=20
That means that using only affine transformations (rotate and transla=
te=20
only) you can take any vertex to any other vertex and end up with the=
same=20
structure. That is not the case for most or all of Roice's hyperbolic=
=20
puzzles.

To properly examine them in 3D, you don't want to jus=
t=20
load a cell file into Cortona, instead you should use MT for the IRPs=
that=20
Roice supports so far and toggle Settings > Skew Polyhedra > Sh=
ow as=20
Skew. For the rest of the IRPs you should load them from href=3D"http://superliminal.com/geometry/infinite/infinite.htm"=20
moz=3D"true">my table because in both programs you can interactiv=
ely add=20
and remove tilings in the X, Y, and Z directions. In MT the keys are =
x, y,=20
and z for removing layers and X, Y, and Z to add them. Stereo viewing=
is=20
very helpful once you learn to view them that way.

Regarding y=
our=20
graphs, various programs can help you to relax them but you may need =
to=20
interact with them to find nicely symmetrical views. I wrote some cod=
e to=20
do something like that a long time ago when studying flexible polyhed=
ra=20
but it is currently hard-coded to deal with just one model. You can t=
ry it=20
m"=20
moz=3D"true">here. These are hard problems.

-Melinda
R>

On 11/3/2012 10:35 AM, Eduard Baumann=20
wrote:

type=3D"cite">

Results of my color graph study=
for MT=20
irp {4,5} 30.

First the adjacency list of=20
b30:

face=3D"Courier New">1 2 3 4 5
2 1 =
;6 7 8
3 1 7 9 10
4 1 7 =
11 12
5 1 7 13 14
6 2 9 9&nbs=
p;15
7 2 3 4 5
8 2 13 13 16R>9 3 6 6 17
10 3 11 11 18
11=
4 10 10 19
12 4 14 14 20
13&=
nbsp;5 8 8 21
14 5 12 12 22
15&nbs=
p;6 24 23 25
16 8 26 27 28
17 =
;9 23 25 29
18 10 26 27 29
19 =
;11 24 26 27
20 12 23 25 28
21&nbs=
p;13 26 27 30
22 14 23 25 30
23&nb=
sp;15 17 20 22
24 15 19 30 30
25&n=
bsp;15 17 20 22
26 16 18 19 21
27&=
nbsp;16 18 =20
19&n=20
bsp;21
28 16 20 29 29
29 17 18&=
nbsp;28 28
30 21 22 24 24

It is interesting that here we hav=
e=20
12 vertices which have doubled neighbours (6, 8-14,24=
and=20
28-30). Then also we have two pairs of vertices which h=
ave=20
same neighbours (1+7) and (26+27).

The adjacency list of a30 h=
ad none=20
of these specialities.

My try to embed a30 gave the following. I hope the uploaded=20
pictures to wiki are linkable.

"> href=3D"http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_a30_manu=
al.PNG"=20
moz=3D"true"> color=3D#800080>http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_=
a30_manual.PNG

style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">&n=
bsp;

"> size=3D2 face=3DArial>And now Mathematica helping me:=

"> color=3D#800080 size=3D2 face=3DArial>Times New
Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> href=3D"http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_ab30_Mti=
ca.PNG"=20
moz=3D"true">http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Color_graph_ab3=
0_Mtica.PNG

"> color=3D#000000 size=3D2> style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">FONT>
size=3D2 face=3DArial>

"> color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial>Times New
Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">The spring embedding=
=20
procedure is certainly performant but the graphs to be shown a=
re=20
complex and not very regular.

"> color=3D#000000 size=3D2> style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">FONT>

"> color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial>Times New
Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Regards>

"> color=3D#000000 size=3D2 face=3DArial>Times New
Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">EdAN>

----- Original Message ----- V>

From:=
title=3Dmelinda@superliminal.com href=3D"mailto:melinda@superlimi=
nal.com"=20
moz=3D"true">Melinda Green

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"=20
moz=3D"true">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 02,=
2012=20
11:52 PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicT=
ile=20
Solving

=20

Ah, I missed the '6', thank you for the correction. This is on=
e of=20
the 3 IRPs that are as perfectly symmetric as the Platonic solids=
in=20
every way. It is also the IRP twin of the original Rubik's cube. =
I=20
would still like to know why Nan's solution is so much=20
shorter.

I also do not understand why you see the IRP 4-5=
=20
b30 f001 as a warm-up exercise to the IRP {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1=
.=20
True they both have 30 colors and genus 4, but they have differen=
t=20
symmetries which I would guess would make the 'a' puzzle the simp=
ler=20
of the two.

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 2:05 PM, Eduard Baumann=
=20
wrote:

=20
type=3D"cite">

Wait.

The similar puzzle I mentioned=
is=20

NOT

MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1

BUT

MT irp {4,6} 12 F 0:0:1

I will attack=20

MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1

next time but I wanted study before he color topology of a=
30=20
and b30.

Ed

----- Original Message ----- =

From:=
title=3Dmelinda@superliminal.com=20
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com" moz=3D"true">Melinda=
=20
Green

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"=20
moz=3D"true">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November=
02,=20
2012 9:53 PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Ma=
gicTile=20
Solving

=20

{4,5} a30 is one of my fav=
orite IRPs. I find it to be quite beautiful and symmetric. It is the one th=
at I showcase on the tm" moz=3D"true">main geometry page to introduce the subject. (Third im=
age down.) The 'b' puzzle that surprised you is less symmetric but is still=
a fascinating structure. It looks very much like an apartment complex. I w=
ould like to know why Nan was able to solve it with such a smaller number o=
f twists. Unless your macros are extremely long, it doesn't seem like that =
can be the only difference. What do you think, Nan?

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 11:17 AM, Eduard=20
wrote:

=
Solving of MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 11/02/2012 |=
| 2393

Remark:
Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit.=
Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I w=
orked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!).=20

OTE>

<=
!-- end group email -->

TE>

------=_NextPart_000_0019_01CDBB37.278D9D00--

From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 15:06:53 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 11/05/2012 || 1252
Effectively clearly easier than version b30 !

From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 15:27:04 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

You wrote:=20
"So both of your face adjacency graphs will naturally live on the surface o=
f a 4-torus (four holed donut)."
=20
What a dream :=20
A 4-torus (four holed donut) having the coloring of a30 and b30
=20
It is not easy to find beautyfull pictures of genus 4 manifolds (many are o=
nly genus 3) :
http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Genus_4_1.PNG
http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Genus_4_2.PNG
http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Genus_4_3.PNG
http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Genus_4_4.PNG
http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Genus_4_5.PNG
=20
Have you better ones ?
=20
Make angular wrl samples ?
=20
Ed

From: Melinda Green <melinda@superliminal.com>
Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 14:14:25 -0800
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

--------------050608020200080907040004
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

It's even harder to find a four holed doughnut. (Mmmmm, doughnut)

I'm probably repeating myself, but all of the IRP's are "angular" wrl
(VRML) models. Using just a single cell and bending things around to
create a finite high-genus model seems a bit of a contortion whereas the
IRP versions of the same uncontorted (tiled) models seems like the
natural way to model them.

-Melinda

On 11/5/2012 4:56 AM, Eduard Baumann wrote:
>
>
> You wrote:
> "So both of your face adjacency graphs will naturally live on the
> surface of a 4-torus (four holed donut)."
> What a dream :
> _A 4-torus (four holed donut) having the coloring of a30 and b30_
> It is not easy to find beautyfull pictures of genus 4 manifolds (many
> are only genus 3) :
> http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Genus_4_1.PNG
> _http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Genus_4_2.PNG_
> http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Genus_4_3.PNG
> http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Genus_4_4.PNG
> http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Genus_4_5.PNG
> Have you better ones ?
> Make angular wrl samples ?
> Ed
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Roice Nelson
> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Monday, November 05, 2012 4:54 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving
>
> Hi Ed,
>
>
> I like your study and posts on these topics. I was surprised to
> see that although these two IRPs look quite different, their
> element counts and genus are identical.
>
> Faces: 30
> Edges: 60
> Vertices: 24
> Euler Characteristic: -6
> Genus: 4
>
> So both of your face adjacency graphs will naturally live on the
> surface of a 4-torus (four holed donut).
>
> You asked for comments on the edgesets in these files. You are
> right that edgesets are how MagicTile encodes the coloring, so
> they are indirectly responsible for the resulting face adjacency
> graphs. But it would not really be possible to directly relate
> one to the other, as there are lots of interim calculations done.
> An analogy that pops to mind is to think of edgesets as an
> organism's DNA and the adjacency graphs as the organism's visible
> traits.
>
> An "edgeset" is the set of CCW 0-indexed edges to reflect across
> to go from the central white tile to an identified copy. As an
> example, here is a picture showing how the "3:3:3" edgeset in the
> {7,3} config tells the program to go from the central white tile
> to copies.
>
> http://www.gravitation3d.com/magictile/pics/73/%7B7,3%7D_reflections.png
>
> (By default, reflections are done across all the initial edges, so
> "3:3:3" actually represents 4 reflections, applied in each of the
> 7 directions, encoding 7 copies). There are further nuances to
> the config. I tried to make it a useful/compact description,
> though it's surely imperfect. If there was enough interest, I
> could try to write up a better description of all the details.
>
> seeya,
> Roice
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 7:29 AM, Eduard Baumann > > wrote:
>
>
>
> Color graphs of MagigTile puzzes.
> I inspected now also the MT infrastructure of MT irp {4,5}
> x30, x=a or b.
> For the _geometry_ there is an ._wrl_ file. I can view it with
> cortona3D. But I can also look at with an editor. a30 is shown
> with 4 colors and b30 with 5 colors.
> For the _puzzle_ there is an ._xml_ configuration file. For
> the color definitions I see only very small information in 6
> _edgesets_.
> The connection with an adjacency list of the corresponding
> color graph ist not easy to see.
> Interesting matter! Roice please comment.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Melinda Green
> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
>
> *Sent:* Friday, November 02, 2012 11:52 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving
>
> Ah, I missed the '6', thank you for the correction. This
> is one of the 3 IRPs that are as perfectly symmetric as
> the Platonic solids in every way. It is also the IRP twin
> of the original Rubik's cube. I would still like to know
> why Nan's solution is so much shorter.
>
> I also do not understand why you see the IRP 4-5 b30 f001
> as a warm-up exercise to the IRP {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1. True
> they both have 30 colors and genus 4, but they have
> different symmetries which I would guess would make the
> 'a' puzzle the simpler of the two.
>
> -Melinda
>
> On 11/2/2012 2:05 PM, Eduard Baumann wrote:
>> Wait.
>> The similar puzzle I mentioned is
>> NOT
>> MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1
>> BUT
>> MT irp {4,6} 12 F 0:0:1
>> I will attack
>> MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1
>> next time but I wanted study before he color topology of
>> a30 and b30.
>> Ed
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Melinda Green
>> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, November 02, 2012 9:53 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving
>>
>> {4,5} a30 is one of my favorite IRPs. I find it to be quite beautiful and symmetric. It is the one that I showcase on themain geometry page to introduce the subject. (Third image down.) The 'b' puzzle that surprised you is less symmetric but is still a fascinating structure. It looks very much like an apartment complex. I would like to know why Nan was able to solve it with such a smaller number of twists. Unless your macros are extremely long, it doesn't seem like that can be the only difference. What do you think, Nan?
>>
>> -Melinda
>>
>> On 11/2/2012 11:17 AM, Eduard wrote:
>>> Solving of MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 ----- || 11/02/2012 || 2393
>>>
>>> Remark:
>>> Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit. Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I worked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!).
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--------------050608020200080907040004
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http-equiv="Content-Type">

It's even harder to find a four holed doughnut. (Mmmmm, doughnut)

I'm probably repeating myself, but all of the IRP's are "angular"
wrl (VRML) models. Using just a single cell and bending things
around to create a finite high-genus model seems a bit of a
contortion whereas the IRP versions of the same uncontorted (tiled)
models seems like the natural way to model them.

-Melinda

On 11/5/2012 4:56 AM, Eduard Baumann
wrote:

type="cite">

http-equiv="Content-Type">

You wrote:

"So both of your face adjacency graphs will naturally
live on the surface of a 4-torus (four holed donut)."

What a dream :

A 4-torus (four holed donut) having the
coloring of a30 and b30

It is not easy to find beautyfull pictures of genus 4
manifolds (many are only genus 3) :

href="http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Genus_4_1.PNG">http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Genus_4_1.PNG

moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Genus_4_2.PNG">http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Genus_4_2.PNG

href="http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Genus_4_3.PNG">http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Genus_4_3.PNG

href="http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Genus_4_4.PNG">http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Genus_4_4.PNG

href="http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Genus_4_5.PNG">http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Genus_4_5.PNG

Have you better ones ?

Make angular wrl samples ?

Ed
----- Original Message -----

From: title="roice3@gmail.com" href="mailto:roice3@gmail.com">Roice
Nelson

To: moz-do-not-send="true" title="4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
href="mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, November 05,
2012 4:54 AM

Subject: Re: [MC4D]
MagicTile Solving
Hi Ed,

I like your study and posts on these topics. I was
surprised to see that although these two IRPs look quite
different, their element counts and genus are identical.

Faces: 30

Edges: 60

Vertices: 24

Euler Characteristic: -6

Genus: 4

So both of your face adjacency graphs will naturally live
on the surface of a 4-torus (four holed donut).

You asked for comments on the edgesets in these files.
You are right that edgesets are how MagicTile encodes the
coloring, so they are indirectly responsible for the
resulting face adjacency graphs. But it would not really be
possible to directly relate one to the other, as there are
lots of interim calculations done. An analogy that pops to
mind is to think of edgesets as an organism's DNA and the
adjacency graphs as the organism's visible traits.

An "edgeset" is the set of CCW 0-indexed style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px">edges style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px"> to style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px">reflect style="FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 13px"> across
to go from the central white tile to an identified copy.
As an example, here is a picture showing how the "3:3:3 face="arial, sans-serif">" edgeset in the {7,3} config
tells the program to go from the central white tile to
copies.

href="http://www.gravitation3d.com/magictile/pics/73/%7B7,3%7D_reflections.png">http://www.gravitation3d.com/magictile/pics/73/%7B7,3%7D_reflections.png face="arial, sans-serif">

(By default, reflections
are done across all the initial edges, so "3:3:3" actually
represents 4 reflections, applied in each of the 7
directions, encoding 7 copies). There are further nuances
to the config. I tried to make it a useful/compact
description, though it's surely imperfect. If there was
enough interest, I could try to write up a better
description of all the details.

seeya,

Roice
On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 7:29 AM,
Eduard Baumann < moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:baumann@mcnet.ch"
target="_blank">baumann@mcnet.ch> wrote:
class="gmail_quote">
Color graphs of MagigTile
puzzes.

I inspected now also the MT
infrastructure of MT irp {4,5} x30, x=a or b.

For the geometry there
is an .wrl file. I can view it with
cortona3D. But I can also look at with an
editor. a30 is shown with 4 colors and b30 with 5
colors.

For the puzzle there
is an .xml configuration file. For the
color definitions I see only very small
information in 6 edgesets.

The connection with an
adjacency list of the corresponding color graph
ist not easy to see.

Interesting matter! Roice
please comment.
----- Original
Message -----

From:
title="melinda@superliminal.com"
href="mailto:melinda@superliminal.com"
target="_blank">Melinda Green

To: moz-do-not-send="true"
title="4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
href="mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
target="_blank">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
Sent:
Friday, November 02, 2012 11:52 PM

Subject:
Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving
Ah, I missed the '6', thank you for the
correction. This is one of the 3 IRPs that
are as perfectly symmetric as the Platonic
solids in every way. It is also the IRP twin
of the original Rubik's cube. I would still
like to know why Nan's solution is so much
shorter.

I also do not understand why you see the IRP
4-5 b30 f001 as a warm-up exercise to the
IRP {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1. True they both have
30 colors and genus 4, but they have
different symmetries which I would guess
would make the 'a' puzzle the simpler of the
two.

-Melinda

On 11/2/2012 2:05 PM, Eduard Baumann
wrote:
Wait.

The similar puzzle I
mentioned is

NOT

MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1

BUT

MT irp {4,6} 12 F 0:0:1

I will attack

MT irp {4,5} a30 F 0:0:1

next time but I wanted study
before he color topology of a30 and
b30.

Ed
-----
Original Message -----

From: moz-do-not-send="true"
title="melinda@superliminal.com"
href="mailto:melinda@superliminal.com"
target="_blank">Melinda Green

To: moz-do-not-send="true"
title="4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
href="mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
target="_blank">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent:
Friday, November 02, 2012 9:53 PM

Subject:
Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving
{4,5} a30 is one of my favorite IRPs. I find it to be quite beautiful and symmetric. It is the one that I showcase on the main geometry page to introduce the subject. (Third image down.) The 'b' puzzle that surprised you is less symmetric but is still a fascinating structure. It looks very much like an apartment complex. I would like to know why Nan was able to solve it with such a smaller number of twists. Unless your macros are extremely long, it doesn't seem like that can be the only difference. What do you think, Nan?

-Melinda
On 11/2/2012 11:17 AM, Eduard
wrote:
Solving of  MT irp {4,5} b30 F 0:0:1 ----- ||  11/02/2012  || 2393

Remark:
Over 2000 twists. I worked without macros this time. Not low hanging fruit. Here 30 colors. In the similar puzzle "irp 4-6 12 f001" with 12 colors I worked with macros and needed 21'000 twists (Nan only 400 !!). 

--------------050608020200080907040004--

From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2012 22:01:33 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

--0-5941830545-1001016214=:8
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 12 F 0.67:0:0 ----- || 11/10/2012 || 1508
Solving of MT hyp {8,3} b12 F 0.67:0:0 ----- || 10/12/2012 || 2480

Remark:

"b12" is more difficult than "12".

After 1807 twists I was left with a single corner swap (=3D:SCS). single
corner swap
_b12_F.PNG>

Wow! In the simpler variant "12" instead of "b12" I had the chance (50%)
to avoid the parity problem. A SCS is possible because the face turn
concerns an even number of corners and edges. This allows an SCS
combined with a single edge swap (=3D:SES). The SES can be hidden because
there exists edge pairs with equal colors.

To repair the parity I needed 543 extra twists ! corner 3cycle
-3_b12_F.PNG>

The 673 twists for an SCS can be extracted from my log file.

New ranking:

1. Ed 206

2. Nan 146

3. Andrey 73

4. Damjan 40

5. Melinda 17

6. Zhao 9

7. Roice 2

--0-5941830545-1001016214=:8
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 12 F 0.67:0:0 ----- || 11/10/2012&nb=
sp; || 1508
Solving of MT hyp {8,3} b12 F 0.67:0:0 ----- || =
10/12/2012 || 2480

Remark:

"b12" is more difficult than "12".

After 1807 twists I was left with a single corner swap (=3D:SCS). =
in_MT_hyp_8-3_b12_F.PNG">single corner swap

Wow! In the simpler variant "12" instead of "b12" I had the chance (50%)=
to avoid the parity problem. A SCS is possible because the face turn conce=
rns an even number of corners and edges. This allows an SCS combined with a=
single edge swap (=3D:SES). The SES can be hidden because there exists edg=
e pairs with equal colors.

To repair the parity I needed 543 extra twists ! /wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Single_corner_3cycle_in_MT_hyp_8-3_b12_F.P=
NG">corner 3cycle

The 673 twists for an SCS can be extracted from my log file.

New ranking:

1. Ed 206

2. Nan 146

3. Andrey 73

4. Damjan 40

5. Melinda 17

6. Zhao 9

7. Roice 2

--0-5941830545-1001016214=:8--

From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2012 14:47:26 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 24 F 0.67:0:0 ----- || 11/15/2012 || 3712
=AB 24 =BB is lenghtier but easier than =AB b12 =BB

From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2012 23:28:37 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 10 F 0.67:0:0 ----- || 11/16/2012 || 1004
=AB 10 =BB is harder than =AB 24 =BB ; Andrey used only 583 twists

From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 12:17:55 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT eucl klein {3,6} 8 F 0:0:1 ----- || 11/20/2012 || 458

Very hard ! Edges : you have to remember the colors of the unscrambled situ=
ation. Faces : my 3-cycle macro had very different effects in different pla=
ces.
Andrey did it in 199 twists, :-(

From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 15:56:59 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT hyp {8,4} 9 F 0:0:1 ----- || 11/20/2012 || 639

Hard. Nan and Andrey haven't done it yet. I'm expecting a clear lower numbe=
r of twists.

From: "eduard_baumann" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2012 17:23:50 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

My result is 65. Log will be later.
Main idea: avoid rotation of violet face :)

Andrey

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "eduard_baumann" wrote:
>
> Solving of MT hyp {8,4} 9 F 0:0:1 ----- || 11/20/2012 || 639
>=20
> Hard. Nan and Andrey haven't done it yet. I'm expecting a clear lower num=
ber of twists.
>

From: "Andrey" <andreyastrelin@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2012 23:04:39 -0000
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 8 F 0.67:0:1 ----- || 11/21/2012 || 1270

Remark:
Hard. Nan and Andrey have made it in 640 and 439 twists (ouff, not less tha=
n 100).
For the 6 color variant Andrey has 119 twists. Seems easier.

From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2012 07:21:22 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Hey guys,

Today Gelatinbrain added a new puzzle, called 9.1.1, in his package of puzz=
les. Mathematically it's the "3C-corner-only" face-turning {7,3} F0.67:0:1 =
(KQ classic). Just ignore the centers and edges and you have it.=20

But, his visualization is quite different. Rather than fitting seven equila=
teral triangles around a vertex in the hyperbolic space, he fits seven tria=
ngles in an Euclidean space in a folded fashion, pretty much like the infin=
ite regular polyhedra. But in his visualization, the whole puzzle is finite=
. There's no periodic repetition or so. Gelatinbrain said: "I mapped all ve=
rtices to equilateral triangles. So there are inevitably broken edges."

The visualization is like this:

http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/download/file.php?id=3D33767

By dragging the puzzle to re-orient it, you can take some inside triangles =
out. This is not consider a twist, just a change of viewpoint. I played it =
for a while and I found piece-finding pretty hard. The difficulty is simila=
r to that of infinite regular polyhedra.

Discussion on twistypuzzles:=20
http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3D292407#p292407
and subsequent posts.

Download gelatinbrain:
http://users.skynet.be/gelatinbrain/Applets/Magic%20Polyhedra/install.htm
I recommend the "install offline" option. Make sure the java runtime is ava=
ilable.

Overall I think this is a great addition to the family of KQ.

Nan

From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 12:18:33 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT ell sph dodeka E 0:1:0 ----- || 11/22/2012 || 1058

Remark:
Sequence : 2C edges (do not leave home) =96 1C thick faces =96 3C corners =
=96 1C thin faces
My 212th MT. There are only heavier puzzles left for me.

From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2012 08:37:36 -0800
Subject: MagicTile Solving

hyp {3,8} 8C V0:0:1 (Eduard - "Barbicontello")
hyp {3,8} 10C V0:0:1 (hidden 3-cycle)
hyp {5,5} 6C non-orientable V1.33:0:0 (Eduard)
eucl klein {3,6} 8C V0:0:1 (Eduard - tiny size / big challenge)
hyp {8,3} 10C F0.67:0:1 (Andrey)
hyp {8,4} 9C E1:0:0 (Melinda)
hyp {8,3} b12 F0.67:0:0 (Eduard)
hyp {8,3} 8 F 0.67:0:1 (Eduard)

From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2012 15:42:42 -0600
Subject: MagicTile Solving

--f46d0407144b72501f04cf449424
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Andrey pointed out something cool about the {8,3} 6C F0.67:0:1 a few years
back. It is just the classic 3x3x3 Rubik's Cube in disguise! Once you
identify pieces, those octagons are seen as squares with 9 stickers each.

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/message/1023

Cheers,
Roice

On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Eduard wrote:

> Solving of MT ell sph dodeka V 0:0:1 ----- || 11/23/2012 || 560
> Easier than ' E 0 :1 :0 `
>
> Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 6 F 0.67:0:1 ----- || 11/24/2012 || 328
> Every color is equivalent. Easy 3-cycles. Andrey 119 twists.
>

--f46d0407144b72501f04cf449424
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Andrey pointed out something cool about the {8,3} 6C F0.67:0:1 a few y=
ears back. =A0It is just the classic 3x3x3 Rubik's Cube in disguise! =
=A0Once you identify pieces, those octagons are seen as squares with 9 stic=
kers each.

g/message/1023">http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/message/1023<=
/a>

Cheers,

Roice

class=3D"gmail_quote">
On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Eduard <ailto:baumann@mcnet.ch" target=3D"_blank">baumann@mcnet.ch> w=
rote:

r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Solving of =A0MT ell sph dodeka =A0V 0:0:1 ----- || =A011/23/2012 =A0|| 560=

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Easier than =A0' E 0 :1 :0 `

Solving of =A0MT hyp {8,3} 6 F 0.67:0:1 ----- || =A011/24/2012 =A0|| 328>
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Every color is equivalent. Easy 3-cycles. Andrey 119 twists=
.

--f46d0407144b72501f04cf449424--

From: "Matthew" <damienturtle@hotmail.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 12:19:52 -0000
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

Just want to chip in here. The {8,3} 6C F0:2:0 is also equivalent to the 3x=
3x3, I invite people to try and see why ;-).

I'm almost finished writing a report for my 4th year at university about gr=
oup theory and the cube, and I referenced these two puzzles from MagicTile =
to briefly explain how the cube group turns up in unexpected places.

I had some fun a while back looking at the {8,3} 6C puzzles with different =
cutting circles since it tied into a discussion on the Twistypuzzles forum,=
I'm sure I posted here about it and started a thread there. I can try to h=
elp point people in the right direction if they want to read these posts bu=
t they're having trouble finding them.

Matt

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Roice Nelson wrote:
>
> Andrey pointed out something cool about the {8,3} 6C F0.67:0:1 a few year=
s
> back. It is just the classic 3x3x3 Rubik's Cube in disguise! Once you
> identify pieces, those octagons are seen as squares with 9 stickers each.
>=20
> http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/message/1023
>=20
> Cheers,
> Roice
>=20
>=20
> On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Eduard wrote:
>=20
> > Solving of MT ell sph dodeka V 0:0:1 ----- || 11/23/2012 || 560
> > Easier than ' E 0 :1 :0 `
> >
> > Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 6 F 0.67:0:1 ----- || 11/24/2012 || 328
> > Every color is equivalent. Easy 3-cycles. Andrey 119 twists.
> >
>

From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 15:21:18 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

I have started MagicTile ell sph dode V 2:0:0.

529 twists for the part without macros: http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/F=
ile:Eb_Pict_MT_ell_sph_dode_V_200.PNG

I think that the rest (small faces and central faces) asks for a few thousa=
nd twists.

From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 13:19:33 -0600
Subject: MagicTile Solving

--f46d040169236512b304cf56b219
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Wow, that is cool! I don't think I would have ever noticed that, so thank
your for sharing it Matt :D

It's wild that all *eight* 1C stickers on a face can be considered the same
piece, which is more evident if you do a full scramble. Also surprising is
that when looking at the F0:2:0 as a 3x3x3, you have to twist a face by
clicking its opposite. And since a twist changes the location of other
faces in the plane, mapping my cube 3-cycle to this puzzle threw me for a
loop or two. Love it!

I'd like to read your report when you finish, if you are inclined to share
it.

Take Care,
Roice

P.S. Here is a link to a twistypuzzles thread with {8,3} pics, which I
think is the one you mention...
http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20697

On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 6:19 AM, Matthew wrote:

> Just want to chip in here. The {8,3} 6C F0:2:0 is also equivalent to the
> 3x3x3, I invite people to try and see why ;-).
>
> I'm almost finished writing a report for my 4th year at university about
> group theory and the cube, and I referenced these two puzzles from
> MagicTile to briefly explain how the cube group turns up in unexpected
> places.
>
> I had some fun a while back looking at the {8,3} 6C puzzles with different
> cutting circles since it tied into a discussion on the Twistypuzzles forum,
> I'm sure I posted here about it and started a thread there. I can try to
> help point people in the right direction if they want to read these posts
> but they're having trouble finding them.
>
> Matt
>
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Roice Nelson wrote:
> >
> > Andrey pointed out something cool about the {8,3} 6C F0.67:0:1 a few
> years
> > back. It is just the classic 3x3x3 Rubik's Cube in disguise! Once you
> > identify pieces, those octagons are seen as squares with 9 stickers each.
> >
> > http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/message/1023
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Roice
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Eduard wrote:
> >
> > > Solving of MT ell sph dodeka V 0:0:1 ----- || 11/23/2012 || 560
> > > Easier than ' E 0 :1 :0 `
> > >
> > > Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 6 F 0.67:0:1 ----- || 11/24/2012 || 328
> > > Every color is equivalent. Easy 3-cycles. Andrey 119 twists.
> > >
> >
>
>

--f46d040169236512b304cf56b219
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Wow, that is cool! =A0I don't think I would have ever noticed that, so =
thank your for sharing it Matt :D =A0

It's wild that=
all *eight* 1C stickers on a face can be considered the same piece, which =
is more evident if you do a full scramble. =A0Also surprising is that when =
looking at the F0:2:0 as a 3x3x3, you have to twist a face by clicking its =
opposite. =A0And since a twist changes the location of other faces in the p=
lane, mapping my cube 3-cycle to this puzzle threw me for a loop or two. =
=A0Love it!

I'd like to read your report when you finish, if you are=
inclined to share it.

Take Care,

Roice<=
br>
P.S. Here is a link to a twistypuzzles thread with {8,3} pics, which=
I think is the one you mention...

20697">http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3D1&t=3D20697=

On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 6:19 =
AM, Matthew <.uk" target=3D"_blank">damienturtle@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Just want to chip in here. The {8,3} 6C F0:2=
:0 is also equivalent to the 3x3x3, I invite people to try and see why ;-).=

I'm almost finished writing a report for my 4th year at university abou=
t group theory and the cube, and I referenced these two puzzles from MagicT=
ile to briefly explain how the cube group turns up in unexpected places.>

I had some fun a while back looking at the {8,3} 6C puzzles with different =
cutting circles since it tied into a discussion on the Twistypuzzles forum,=
I'm sure I posted here about it and started a thread there. I can try =
to help point people in the right direction if they want to read these post=
s but they're having trouble finding them.

Matt

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.c=
om, Roice Nelson <roice3@...> wrote:

>

> Andrey pointed out something cool about the {8,3} 6C F0.67:0:1 a few y=
ears

> back. =A0It is just the classic 3x3x3 Rubik's Cube in disguise! =
=A0Once you

> identify pieces, those octagons are seen as squares with 9 stickers ea=
ch.

>

> target=3D"_blank">http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/message/10=
23

>

> Cheers,

> Roice

>

>

> On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Eduar=
d <baumann@...> wrote:

>

> > Solving of =A0MT ell sph dodeka =A0V 0:0:1 ----- || =A011/23/2012=
=A0|| 560

> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Easier than =A0' E 0 :1 :0 `

> >

> > Solving of =A0MT hyp {8,3} 6 F 0.67:0:1 ----- || =A011/24/2012 =
=A0|| 328

> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Every color is equivalent. Easy 3-cycles. Andrey =
119 twists.

> >

>

--f46d040169236512b304cf56b219--

From: "schuma" <mananself@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 20:30:38 -0000
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

Interesting observation about F0:2:0. The direct analog is 3x3x3 where only=
two-layer turns are allowed. That's why you need to think of it as a turn =
of the opposite face and reorient the puzzle. Just now I used a 3x3x3 as a =
reference and solved F0:2:0.

Nan

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Roice Nelson wrote:
>
> Wow, that is cool! I don't think I would have ever noticed that, so than=
k
> your for sharing it Matt :D
>=20
> It's wild that all *eight* 1C stickers on a face can be considered the sa=
me
> piece, which is more evident if you do a full scramble. Also surprising =
is
> that when looking at the F0:2:0 as a 3x3x3, you have to twist a face by
> clicking its opposite. And since a twist changes the location of other
> faces in the plane, mapping my cube 3-cycle to this puzzle threw me for a
> loop or two. Love it!
>=20
> I'd like to read your report when you finish, if you are inclined to shar=
e
> it.
>=20
> Take Care,
> Roice
>=20
> P.S. Here is a link to a twistypuzzles thread with {8,3} pics, which I
> think is the one you mention...
> http://twistypuzzles.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3D1&t=3D20697
>=20
>=20
> On Sun, Nov 25, 2012 at 6:19 AM, Matthew wrote:
>=20
> > Just want to chip in here. The {8,3} 6C F0:2:0 is also equivalent to th=
e
> > 3x3x3, I invite people to try and see why ;-).
> >
> > I'm almost finished writing a report for my 4th year at university abou=
t
> > group theory and the cube, and I referenced these two puzzles from
> > MagicTile to briefly explain how the cube group turns up in unexpected
> > places.
> >
> > I had some fun a while back looking at the {8,3} 6C puzzles with differ=
ent
> > cutting circles since it tied into a discussion on the Twistypuzzles fo=
rum,
> > I'm sure I posted here about it and started a thread there. I can try t=
o
> > help point people in the right direction if they want to read these pos=
ts
> > but they're having trouble finding them.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Roice Nelson wrote:
> > >
> > > Andrey pointed out something cool about the {8,3} 6C F0.67:0:1 a few
> > years
> > > back. It is just the classic 3x3x3 Rubik's Cube in disguise! Once y=
ou
> > > identify pieces, those octagons are seen as squares with 9 stickers e=
ach.
> > >
> > > http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/message/1023
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Roice
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Nov 24, 2012 at 10:19 AM, Eduard wrote:
> > >
> > > > Solving of MT ell sph dodeka V 0:0:1 ----- || 11/23/2012 || 560
> > > > Easier than ' E 0 :1 :0 `
> > > >
> > > > Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 6 F 0.67:0:1 ----- || 11/24/2012 || 328
> > > > Every color is equivalent. Easy 3-cycles. Andrey 119 twists=
.
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>

From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 00:26:55 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT ell sph dodeka V 2:0:0 ----- || 11/26/2012 || 2369

Remark:
Be carefull, if you chose mirrored colors you are left with edge swap (pari=
ty!).=20
Edges and thick faces : 529 twists (without macros),=20
small faces and central faces : 1840 twists (with macros).

From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 00:39:09 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Great solve. For your information, the physical version of this puzzle was =
mass produced and released recently:

http://shop.mf8.com.cn/goods.php?id=3D93

Nan

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" wrote:
>
> Solving of MT ell sph dodeka V 2:0:0 ----- || 11/26/2012 || 2369
>=20
> Remark:
> Be carefull, if you chose mirrored colors you are left with edge swap (pa=
rity!).=20
> Edges and thick faces : 529 twists (without macros),=20
> small faces and central faces : 1840 twists (with macros).
>

From: "Eduard Baumann" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 11:44:49 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01CDCBCB.70FBEB50
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yeah. Thanks a lot for the hint.
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: schuma=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 1:39 AM
Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
Great solve. For your information, the physical version of this puzzle wa=
s mass produced and released recently:

http://shop.mf8.com.cn/goods.php?id=3D93

Nan

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" wrote:
>
> Solving of MT ell sph dodeka V 2:0:0 ----- || 11/26/2012 || 2369
>=20
> Remark:
> Be carefull, if you chose mirrored colors you are left with edge swap (=
parity!).=20
> Edges and thick faces : 529 twists (without macros),=20
> small faces and central faces : 1840 twists (with macros).
>

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_0018_01CDCBCB.70FBEB50
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>

Yeah. Thanks a lot for the hint.IV>

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
schuma=
=20

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 1:=
39=20
AM

Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

Great solve. For your information, the physical version of this puzzle=
was=20
mass produced and released recently:

href=3D"http://shop.mf8.com.cn/goods.php?id=3D93">http://shop.mf8.com.cn/=
goods.php?id=3D93

Nan

---=20
In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=
,=20
"Eduard" <baumann@...> wrote:
>
> Solving of MT ell sph=
=20
dodeka V 2:0:0 ----- || 11/26/2012 || 2369
>
> Remark:
&g=
t; Be=20
carefull, if you chose mirrored colors you are left with edge swap (parit=
y!).=20

> Edges and thick faces : 529 twists (without macros),
> sm=
all=20
faces and central faces : 1840 twists (with macros).
>

<=
/DIV>

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01CDCBCB.70FBEB50--

From: "Eduard Baumann" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 13:39:34 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01CDCBDB.789BB880
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Nan,
I see on the GB score board that you have solved this puzzle (GB 1.2.11) in=
1975 twists, date 29.3.10.
I propose that you inscribe equivalent solvings in GB in the MagicTile wiki=
DB with the mention GB.
I would appreciate it and change the MT-wiki-count-ranking.
Kind regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: schuma=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 1:39 AM
Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
Great solve. For your information, the physical version of this puzzle wa=
s mass produced and released recently:

http://shop.mf8.com.cn/goods.php?id=3D93

Nan

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" wrote:
>
> Solving of MT ell sph dodeka V 2:0:0 ----- || 11/26/2012 || 2369
>=20
> Remark:
> Be carefull, if you chose mirrored colors you are left with edge swap (=
parity!).=20
> Edges and thick faces : 529 twists (without macros),=20
> small faces and central faces : 1840 twists (with macros).
>

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01CDCBDB.789BB880
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>

Hi Nan,

I see on the GB score board that you have =
solved=20
this puzzle (GB 1.2.11) in 1975 twists, date 29.3.10.

I propose that you inscribe equivalent sol=
vings in=20
GB in the MagicTile wiki DB with the mention GB.

I would appreciate it and change the=20
MT-wiki-count-ranking.

Kind regards

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
schuma=
=20

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 1:=
39=20
AM

Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

<=
/DIV>

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01CDCBDB.789BB880--

From: "schuma" <mananself@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 17:20:29 -0000
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

Hi Ed,

I didn't realize GB 1.2.11 is also this puzzle. Thanks for pointing it out.=
=20

I feel reluctant to include GB solves in the MagicTile wiki page. Many Magi=
c Tile puzzles overlap with existing puzzles, for example, the Rubik's Cube=
or Megaminx. Since it's impossible to include the records of all the solve=
s of these puzzles, we have to draw the line somewhere. If I import my solv=
es on GB, what about the other solvers of GB? It seems unfair for them if I=
don't it for them.

I guess "solved on MagicTile but not other software" is a good criterion fo=
r now. A particular reason is that, R2 (180 deg turn of the Right face) is =
counted as two turns in MagicTile and one turn in GB. So the move counts ar=
e not directly comparable.

Nan

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard Baumann" wrote:
>
> Hi Nan,
> I see on the GB score board that you have solved this puzzle (GB 1.2.11) =
in 1975 twists, date 29.3.10.
> I propose that you inscribe equivalent solvings in GB in the MagicTile wi=
ki DB with the mention GB.
> I would appreciate it and change the MT-wiki-count-ranking.
> Kind regards
> Ed
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: schuma=20
> To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 1:39 AM
> Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving
>=20
>=20
>=20=20=20=20=20
> Great solve. For your information, the physical version of this puzzle =
was mass produced and released recently:
>=20
> http://shop.mf8.com.cn/goods.php?id=3D93
>=20
> Nan
>=20
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" wrote:
> >
> > Solving of MT ell sph dodeka V 2:0:0 ----- || 11/26/2012 || 2369
> >=20
> > Remark:
> > Be carefull, if you chose mirrored colors you are left with edge swap=
(parity!).=20
> > Edges and thick faces : 529 twists (without macros),=20
> > small faces and central faces : 1840 twists (with macros).
> >
>

From: "Eduard Baumann" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 21:11:15 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01CDCC1A.924D2E00
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

okay

----- Original Message -----=20
From: schuma=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 6:20 PM
Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
Hi Ed,

I didn't realize GB 1.2.11 is also this puzzle. Thanks for pointing it ou=
t.=20

I feel reluctant to include GB solves in the MagicTile wiki page. Many Ma=
gic Tile puzzles overlap with existing puzzles, for example, the Rubik's Cu=
be or Megaminx. Since it's impossible to include the records of all the sol=
ves of these puzzles, we have to draw the line somewhere. If I import my so=
lves on GB, what about the other solvers of GB? It seems unfair for them if=
I don't it for them.

I guess "solved on MagicTile but not other software" is a good criterion =
for now. A particular reason is that, R2 (180 deg turn of the Right face) i=
s counted as two turns in MagicTile and one turn in GB. So the move counts =
are not directly comparable.

Nan

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard Baumann" wrote:
>
> Hi Nan,
> I see on the GB score board that you have solved this puzzle (GB 1.2.11=
) in 1975 twists, date 29.3.10.
> I propose that you inscribe equivalent solvings in GB in the MagicTile =
wiki DB with the mention GB.
> I would appreciate it and change the MT-wiki-count-ranking.
> Kind regards
> Ed
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: schuma=20
> To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 1:39 AM
> Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Great solve. For your information, the physical version of this puzzle =
was mass produced and released recently:
>=20
> http://shop.mf8.com.cn/goods.php?id=3D93
>=20
> Nan
>=20
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" wrote:
> >
> > Solving of MT ell sph dodeka V 2:0:0 ----- || 11/26/2012 || 2369
> >=20
> > Remark:
> > Be carefull, if you chose mirrored colors you are left with edge swap=
(parity!).=20
> > Edges and thick faces : 529 twists (without macros),=20
> > small faces and central faces : 1840 twists (with macros).
> >
>

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01CDCC1A.924D2E00
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>

okay

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
schuma=
=20

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 6:=
20=20
PM

Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

Hi Ed,

I didn't realize GB 1.2.11 is also this puzzle. Thanks f=
or=20
pointing it out.

I feel reluctant to include GB solves in the=20
MagicTile wiki page. Many Magic Tile puzzles overlap with existing puzzle=
s,=20
for example, the Rubik's Cube or Megaminx. Since it's impossible to inclu=
de=20
the records of all the solves of these puzzles, we have to draw the line=
=20
somewhere. If I import my solves on GB, what about the other solvers of G=
B? It=20
seems unfair for them if I don't it for them.

I guess "solved on=20
MagicTile but not other software" is a good criterion for now. A particul=
ar=20
reason is that, R2 (180 deg turn of the Right face) is counted as two tur=
ns in=20
MagicTile and one turn in GB. So the move counts are not directly=20
comparable.

Nan

--- In href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing%40yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=
,=20
"Eduard Baumann" <baumann@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Nan,
&g=
t; I=20
see on the GB score board that you have solved this puzzle (GB 1.2.11) in=
1975=20
twists, date 29.3.10.
> I propose that you inscribe equivalent solv=
ings=20
in GB in the MagicTile wiki DB with the mention GB.
> I would appre=
ciate=20
it and change the MT-wiki-count-ranking.
> Kind regards
>=20
Ed
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: schuma=20

> To: href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing%40yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=
=20

> Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 1:39 AM
> Subject: [MC4D] =
Re:=20
MagicTile Solving
>
>
>
> Great solve. For you=
r=20
information, the physical version of this puzzle was mass produced and=20
released recently:
>
> href=3D"http://shop.mf8.com.cn/goods.php?id=3D93">http://shop.mf8.com.cn/=
goods.php?id=3D93
>=20

> Nan
>
> --- In href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing%40yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=
,=20
"Eduard" <baumann@> wrote:
> >
> > Solving of MT =
ell=20
sph dodeka V 2:0:0 ----- || 11/26/2012 || 2369
> >
> >=
=20
Remark:
> > Be carefull, if you chose mirrored colors you are le=
ft=20
with edge swap (parity!).
> > Edges and thick faces : 529 twist=
s=20
(without macros),
> > small faces and central faces : 1840 twis=
ts=20
(with macros).
> >
>

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01CDCC1A.924D2E00--

From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 16:40:14 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT ell sph icosa f101 e100 v100 ----- || 11/27/2012 || 715
Solving of MT ell sph icosa v 1.33:0:0 ----- || 11/27/2012 || 423
Solving of MT ell sph icosa v 2:0:0 ----- || 10/28/2012 || 414

Welcome back Nan (also 3 new solvings)!

New ranking
1. Ed 218
2. Nan 149
3. Andrey 73
4. Damjan 40
5. Melinda 17
6. Zhao 9
7. Roice 2

Melinda: come back even before a "challenge list" has been established!

From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 17:00:18 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Sorry for a typo:

Solving of MT ell sph icosa f101 e100 v100 ----- || 11/27/2012 || 715
should be
Solving of MT ell sph dodeka f101 e100 v100 ----- || 11/27/2012 || 715

From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2012 00:07:20 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

--0-5619183287-5700178094=:9
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

sample
5.PNG>

This is the half finished "MT ell sph dodeca v 0:1:0.5" after 576 twists
and without macros. Edges and faces at corners are done. For the
corners, the faces and central faces I will use macros.

--0-5619183287-5700178094=:9
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

e_V_0-1-0,5.PNG">sample

This is the half finished "MT ell sph dodeca v 0:1:0.5" after =
576 twists and without macros. Edges and faces at corners are done. Fo=
r the corners, the faces and central faces I will use macros.

--0-5619183287-5700178094=:9--

From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2012 12:19:37 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT hyp {4,6} 6 f 0:0:1 ----- || 11/28/2012 || 6
Very short.
Solving of MT ell sph icosa e010 v001 ----- || 11/30/2012 || 1046
Easy and pleasant.
Solving of MT ell sph dodeca v 0:1:0.5 ----- || 12/02/2012 || 2582
Big puzzle.
(my 221th)

From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2012 09:07:57 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

--3-4390609021-5579460038=:1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

MT_ell_sph_dode_E_0-1-0,11
PNG>

I have started this big and absolutely marvelous MT puzzle. I show an
intermediate position. The tricky thing is that all pieces move in a
scrambling. There are 20 3C corner pieces. Then you have the following
1C pieces: 60 cornerfaces, 60 edgefaces, 60 small faces and 12 central
faces. After 2300 twists only I saw that the cornerfaces are organised
in 6 orbits which they cannot leave. I had do restart my puzzle. Within
an orbit you are normally left with a final swap. This parity problem
can only be solved by a single twist which has to be compensated by a
corner double swap. It is important that the corners are not organised
in orbits. To find the correct home positions for the corners you have
to analyse the 6 cornerface orbits !!!! The orbits are zick zack belts
which can be efficiently characterised by their poles (not appearing in
the belt) which are (in the default coloring): cyan+red, purpe+yellow,
silver+blue, green+maroon, blue+hotPink, white+slateBlue.

--3-4390609021-5579460038=:1
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

_0-1-0,11.PNG">MT_ell_sph_dode_E_0-1-0,11

I have started this big and absolutely marvelous MT puzzle. I show=
an intermediate position. The tricky thing is that all pieces move in a sc=
rambling. There are 20 3C corner pieces. Then you have the following 1=
C pieces: 60 cornerfaces, 60 edgefaces, 60 small faces and 12 central faces=
. After 2300 twists only I saw that the cornerfaces are organised in 6=
orbits which they cannot leave. I had do restart my puzzle. Within an orbi=
t you are normally left with a final swap. This parity problem can only be =
solved by a single twist which has to be compensated by a corner double swa=
p. It is important that the corners are not organised in orbits. To find th=
e correct home positions for the corners you have to analyse the 6 cornerfa=
ce orbits !!!! The orbits are zick zack belts which can be efficientl=
y characterised by their poles (not appearing in the belt) which are (=
in the default coloring): cyan+red, purpe+yellow, silver+blue, green+maroon=
, blue+hotPink, white+slateBlue.

--3-4390609021-5579460038=:1--

From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2012 18:40:46 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT ell sph dodeca e 0:1:0.11----- || 12/04/2012 || 5788

Big puzzle. See my intermediate reports. The hint from Nan was very helpful=
. My 222th solve.

From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2012 14:59:25 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Seed a moebius strip to a hole in a sphere. This is pronounced very easely.=
But it is difficult to follow the whole process mentally.
After half of the process you get to the opposite side of the hole in the s=
phere. And now comes the crucial moment. I have to grip the opposite border=
of the moebiusband and to travel to the opposite side of the hole in the s=
phere where the seeding started in order to make he first seeding step of t=
he second half of the process bringing together the gripped border and the =
still unseeded part of the border of the hole in the sphere. In doing this=
I transport all the seeded neighbouring and this makes selfpenetration nec=
essary. This important moment should shown in a beautiful animation. At the=
end we have a so called "cross-cap" (Kreuzhaube, bonnet crois=E9). In such=
a movie I would perhaps see when the chirality of the used moebius strip i=
s lost, the cross-cap having no chirality.
I fear that there exists no youtube with this animation. Or somebody knows =
it?=20

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 00:50:23 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT skew {4,6|3} 30 e 1:0:0----- || 12/12/2012 || 6518

Ouff! Hard work. The puzzle I presented in the stereo animation. Nice date =
: 12.12.12
My 223th MT.

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 14:47:29 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" wrote:
>
> Solving of MT skew {4,6|3} 30 e 1:0:0----- || 12/12/2012 || 6518
>=20
> Ouff! Hard work. The puzzle I presented in the stereo animation. Nice dat=
e : 12.12.12
> My 223th MT.
>
My result is exactly 3000 :) really difficult.

From: "Andrey" <andreyastrelin@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:45:31 +0100
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CDD959.A551CA50
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

3000 twists the 12.12.12
Easy to retain.
You have not yet inscribed your result.
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Andrey=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:47 PM
Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" wrote:
>
> Solving of MT skew {4,6|3} 30 e 1:0:0----- || 12/12/2012 || 6518
>=20
> Ouff! Hard work. The puzzle I presented in the stereo animation. Nice d=
ate : 12.12.12
> My 223th MT.
>
My result is exactly 3000 :) really difficult.

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CDD959.A551CA50
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>

3000 twists the 12.12.12

Easy to retain.

You have not yet inscribed your=20
result.

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:andreyastrelin@yahoo.com">Andrey

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 =
3:47=20
PM

Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

--- In href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com,=
=20
"Eduard" <ed.baumann@...> wrote:
>
> Solving of MT skew=
=20
{4,6|3} 30 e 1:0:0----- || 12/12/2012 || 6518
>
> Ouff! Hard=
=20
work. The puzzle I presented in the stereo animation. Nice date :=20
12.12.12
> My 223th MT.
>
My result is exactly 3000 :) rea=
lly=20
difficult.

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CDD959.A551CA50--

From: "Andrey" <andreyastrelin@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:37:09 -0000
Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

It was 13th...
I've included my results for last month. Count is 83.

Andrey

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard Baumann" wrote:
>
> 3000 twists the 12.12.12
> Easy to retain.
> You have not yet inscribed your result.
> Ed
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: Andrey=20
> To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 3:47 PM
> Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving
>=20
>=20
>=20=20=20=20=20
>=20
>=20
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" wrote:
> >
> > Solving of MT skew {4,6|3} 30 e 1:0:0----- || 12/12/2012 || 6518
> >=20
> > Ouff! Hard work. The puzzle I presented in the stereo animation. Nice=
date : 12.12.12
> > My 223th MT.
> >
> My result is exactly 3000 :) really difficult.
>

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2012 18:10:45 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT ell sph dodeca f201----- || 12/14/2012 || 8055

Remark:
I didn't remark that I was solving this puzzle a third time. MT 168'000 twi=
sts, then GB 18'000. My 224th MT.

New ranking
1. Ed 224
2. Nan 149
3. Andrey 93
4. Damjan 40
5. Melinda 17
6. Zhao 9
7. Roice 2

From: Roice Nelson <roice3@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 14:30:57 -0600
Subject: MagicTile Solving

--f46d0401688366fe1d04d0fe2475
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi Ed,

I finally finished writing up some info about configuring colorings in
MagicTile, in case you'd like to experiment with making new ones. Sorry it
took me longer than I said.

http://www.gravitation3d.com/magictile/info/identifications.html

Cheers,
Roice

On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 4:11 AM, Eduard Baumann wrote:

> **
>
>
> Thanks a lot.
> Ed
>
>
>
> Since you are digging deep into this configuration, I will try to write up
> a page with fuller details, and a few more pictorial examples. I'll try to
> work on this over the Thanksgiving holiday next week. Hopefully it will
> help you to be able to explore and find some cool new colorings!
>
>

--f46d0401688366fe1d04d0fe2475
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Ed,

I finally finished writing up some info about con=
figuring colorings in MagicTile, in case you'd like to experiment with =
making new ones. =A0Sorry it took me longer than I said.

.html">http://www.gravitation3d.com/magictile/info/identifications.html=

Cheers,

Roice

gmail_quote">
On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 4:11 AM, Eduard Baumann=A0wrote:

ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pa=
dding-left:1ex">

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20

Thanks a lot.

Ed

=A0

-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px">

ote">

Since you are digging deep into this configuration, I will try to wr=
ite=20
up a page with fuller details, and a few more pictorial examples. =A0I=
9;ll=20
try to work on this over the Thanksgiving holiday next week. =A0Hopefully=
=20
it will help you to be able to explore and find some cool new colorings!<=
/div>

div>

--f46d0401688366fe1d04d0fe2475--

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 15:04:04 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT skew {4,4|3} 20 V 0:0:1 ----- || 12/16/2012 || 1702
My 225th MT solve.

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: 17 Dec 2012 15:05:35 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the 4D_Cubing
group.

File : /Eduard/{3,6} 7C.xml
Uploaded by : eduard_baumann
Description : MT coloring 1

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/files/Eduard/%7B3%2C6%7D%207C.xml

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.html
Regards,

eduard_baumann

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2012 09:11:15 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Big MagicTile: MT skew {6,4|3} 20 v200.
After 15'000 twists I'm left with the small faces and the central faces. Es=
timated total number of twists: 30'000.

http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Pict_MT_skew_6,4-3_20_v200.PNG#file

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2012 17:09:01 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

"MT_skew_6_4-3_20_v200"

http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Pict_MT_skew_6_4-3_20_v200_swap.PNG

After few (400) twists more for the central faces I'm left with a single ce=
ntral face swap (with all edges at home) !!!!

This seems to be a serious parity problem.

One vertex turn =3D 4er cycle of central faces AND of edges.
Hence with 3-cycles I can only do the combination of=20
a single central face swap PLUS a single edge swap.

Nan, can you help me again ? ;-)

Kind regards
Ed

From: "Andrey" <andreyastrelin@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2012 07:09:41 -0000
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

It looks like 60-deg rotation of the whole puzzle around some face gives ev=
en permutation of the edges (10 6-loops) and odd permutation od centers (3 =
6-loops + 2 fixed points). Have you remembered faces colors before shuffle?=
If not, you could start solving in the "odd" orientation :(

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" wrote:
>
> "MT_skew_6_4-3_20_v200"
>=20
> http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Pict_MT_skew_6_4-3_20_v200_swap.PN=
G
>=20
> After few (400) twists more for the central faces I'm left with a single =
central face swap (with all edges at home) !!!!
>=20
> This seems to be a serious parity problem.
>=20
> One vertex turn =3D 4er cycle of central faces AND of edges.
> Hence with 3-cycles I can only do the combination of=20
> a single central face swap PLUS a single edge swap.
>=20
> Nan, can you help me again ? ;-)
>=20
> Kind regards
> Ed
>

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2012 11:15:32 -0000
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

You are perfectly right. The fact ist very remarkable.
"Have you remembered faces colors before shuffle?" Yes I worked together wi=
th a unscrambled Run. But this is not sufficient. You have absolutely no cl=
ue for the 6 60=B0 rotations of the whole. The strategy must be: do the edg=
es and centers first (with about 1000 twists). See the parity. With 50% cha=
nce it's ok. If not do such a 60=B0 turn of the whole by twists! Then only =
finish the puzzle with about 20'000 twists.
Because I have already done my 15'000 twists I will finish without reparing=
the parity and put this "near solve" on wiki.

Alternatively you can immediately place the the 6 edges with white immediat=
ely after the scrambling with the unscrambled run in view ... and this with=
out loosing the 60=B0-orientation of the whole.

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Andrey" wrote:
>
> It looks like 60-deg rotation of the whole puzzle around some face gives =
even permutation of the edges (10 6-loops) and odd permutation od centers (=
3 6-loops + 2 fixed points). Have you remembered faces colors before shuffl=
e? If not, you could start solving in the "odd" orientation :(
>=20
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" wrote:
> >
> > "MT_skew_6_4-3_20_v200"
> >=20
> > http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Pict_MT_skew_6_4-3_20_v200_swap.=
PNG
> >=20
> > After few (400) twists more for the central faces I'm left with a singl=
e central face swap (with all edges at home) !!!!
> >=20
> > This seems to be a serious parity problem.
> >=20
> > One vertex turn =3D 4er cycle of central faces AND of edges.
> > Hence with 3-cycles I can only do the combination of=20
> > a single central face swap PLUS a single edge swap.
> >=20
> > Nan, can you help me again ? ;-)
> >=20
> > Kind regards
> > Ed
> >
>

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2012 00:30:23 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT skew {4,4|3} 20 V 0:0:1 ----- || 12/24/2012 || 51244

Remark:
My 226th. Big puzzle where the theorem of Astrelin applies !
I managed the parity problem in a second try with 1402 twists bringing home=
only edges and central faces.

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2012 00:03:03 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

sorry typo

MT skew {4,4|3} 20 V 0:0:1
instead of
MT skew {6,4|3} 20 V 2:0:0

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2012 14:26:40 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

--6-4816284771-9982632717=:6
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have startet MagicTile "MT skew {4,6|3} 30 v020".

Here too you find a remarkable property.

I remind you

Theorem of Astrelin

A 60-deg rotation of the whole puzzle "MT skew {6,4|3} 20 v200" (Roice
Nelson) around some face gives even permutation of the edges (10
6-loops) and odd permutation of centers (3 6-loops + 2 fixed points).
This is reducible to a single center swap.

The organisation of "MT skew {6,4|3} 20 v200" is

5 truncated tetrahedra TT connected by the truncation-triangles in form
of a volumecentered tetrahedron.

=81@

Now we have

Theorem of Baumann

A 90-deg rotation of the whole puzzle "MT skew {4,6|3} 30 v020" (Roice
Nelson) around some face gives odd permutation of the edges (15 4-loops)
and even permutation of centers (4 4-loops + 1 fixed points). The is
reducible to a single edge swap.

The organisation of "MT skew {4,6|3} 30 v020" is also interesting:

5 vertices (invisible tetrahedra) connected by 10 edges (3-prismes).
This gives 10x3 =3D 30 prisme-faces. See pictures.

pict 1
> ,pict 2
> ,pict 3
isation.PNG>

--6-4816284771-9982632717=:6
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have startet MagicTile "MT skew {4,6|3} 30 v020".

Here too you find a remarkable property.

I remind you

Theorem of Astrelin

A 60-deg rotation of the whole puzzle "MT skew {6,4|3} 20 v200" (Roice N=
elson) around some face gives even permutation of the edges (10 6-loops) an=
d odd permutation of centers (3 6-loops + 2 fixed points). This is reducibl=
e to a single center swap.

The organisation of "MT skew {6,4|3} 20 v200" is

5 truncated tetrahedra TT connected by the truncation-triangles in form =
of a volumecentered tetrahedron.

=81@

Now we have

Theorem of Baumann

A 90-deg rotation of the whole puzzle "MT skew {4,6|3} 30 v020" (Roice N=
elson) around some face gives odd permutation of the edges (15 4-loops) and=
even permutation of centers (4 4-loops + 1 fixed points). The is reducible=
to a single edge swap.

The organisation of "MT skew {4,6|3} 30 v020" is also interesting:

5 vertices (invisible tetrahedra) connected by 10 edges (3-prismes). Thi=
s gives 10x3 =3D 30 prisme-faces. See pictures.

v020_a.PNG">pict 1 ,ile:Pict_MT_skew_4,6-3_30_v020_b.PNG">pict 2 ,ki.superliminal.com/wiki/File:Pict_MT_skew_4,6-3_30_v020_organisation.PNG">=
pict 3

--6-4816284771-9982632717=:6--

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2013 23:43:53 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT skew {4,6|3} 30 V 0:2 :0 ----- || 01/01/2013 || 3754

"Runcinated 5-cell v020"
the puzzle where Baumann's theorem applies.

My count is 232 now.=20

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2013 00:26:35 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

I wanted replace the pictures for the skew 5-cell runcinated and bitruncate=
d.

There is a problem with uploading pictures to wiki.

I doubt there is some "Out of space" problem and badly declared.

I got only "error in thumbnail" but still an usable file.

Now I get "error in thumbnail" and an empty file.

Ed

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2013 17:55:46 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT skew {6,4|3} 20 E 0:1 :0 ----- || 01/04/2013 || 16878

This was a very big puzzle.
If I find no more smaller MTs the way to the 300th will be long.
My count is 233 now.=20

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2013 18:31:54 -0800
Subject: MagicTile Solving

--------------080304070406040004070004
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear puzzlers,

Some of us who live in the SF Bay Area are planning to get together soon
and want to invite you! We did this once before and had an amazing time.
After talking for what seemed like 2 hours we discovered we had been
chatting for 6 and didn't break up until after 8 hours straight! We are
currently looking at Saturday January 19th and 26th. If any of you are
close enough or dedicated enough to make the trek, please let me know if
only one of those dates would work for you.

I'm sorry that most of you are too far to make this practical for you
but I encourage you to try to find and meet with other list members who
might be close to you. Some of your profiles contain your location which
is probably the best way to find others near you. I think you should be
able to see those locations in the member's list
in "expanded"
view. The rest of you may wish to add your locations to your profiles if
you are interested in meeting other nearby members.

Happy New Year!
-Melinda

--------------080304070406040004070004
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear puzzlers,

Some of us who live in the SF Bay Area are planning to get together
soon and want to invite you! We did this once before and had an
amazing time. After talking for what seemed like 2 hours we
discovered we had been chatting for 6 and didn't break up until
after 8 hours straight! We are currently looking at Saturday January
19th and 26th. If any of you are close enough or dedicated enough to
make the trek, please let me know if only one of those dates would
work for you.

I'm sorry that most of you are too far to make this practical for
you but I encourage you to try to find and meet with other list
members who might be close to you. Some of your profiles contain
your location which is probably the best way to find others near
you. I think you should be able to see those locations in the href="http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/members">member's
list in "expanded" view. The rest of you may wish to add your
locations to your profiles if you are interested in meeting other
nearby members.

Happy New Year!

-Melinda

--------------080304070406040004070004--

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 19:29:54 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT hyp {5,4} 24 V 0:0:1 ----- || 01/06/2013 || 1476
Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 24 V 0:1:0 ----- || 01/07/2013 || 1986
Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 12b V 0:1:0 ----- || 01/08/2013 || 856
Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 12 V 0:1:0 ----- || 01/08/2013 || 967
Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 6 V 0:1:0 ----- || 01/09/2013 || 265
Solving of MT hyp {5,4} 12n V 0:0:1 ----- || 01/10/2013 || 604

A package of not big pleasant to play puzzles.
My 239th.

Help!
I cannot anymore upload files on wiki!
Who knows why?
Out of space problem on the wiki side?

From: Melinda Green <melinda@superliminal.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2013 13:38:39 -0800
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

Hello Eduard,

You may be right about room on the wiki. Maybe try saving a big chunk of
your text, then deleting it, and then see if you can edit again so we
know if that's it? If that's it I could see if my ISP will give me more
space if you like. Either way, we're using the honor system anyway and
some solvers don't upload their files at all, so if this is the problem
then I suggest that you only publish your interesting files and just
record the move counts for the rest and just hang onto all of your log
files.

-Melinda

On 1/11/2013 11:29 AM, Eduard wrote:
> Solving of MT hyp {5,4} 24 V 0:0:1 ----- || 01/06/2013 || 1476
> Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 24 V 0:1:0 ----- || 01/07/2013 || 1986
> Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 12b V 0:1:0 ----- || 01/08/2013 || 856
> Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 12 V 0:1:0 ----- || 01/08/2013 || 967
> Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 6 V 0:1:0 ----- || 01/09/2013 || 265
> Solving of MT hyp {5,4} 12n V 0:0:1 ----- || 01/10/2013 || 604
>
> A package of not big pleasant to play puzzles.
> My 239th.
>
> Help!
> I cannot anymore upload files on wiki!
> Who knows why?
> Out of space problem on the wiki side?

From: "Eduard Baumann" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2013 01:38:22 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CDF065.819EBF00
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have solved the problems with my log files (Baumann, Baumann2, Baumann3,=
Baumann4).

The new problem is for uploading picture-files.
Try yourself to upload any picture.

Best regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
Hello Eduard,

You may be right about room on the wiki. Maybe try saving a big chunk of=
=20
your text, then deleting it, and then see if you can edit again so we=20
know if that's it? If that's it I could see if my ISP will give me more=20
space if you like. Either way, we're using the honor system anyway and=20
some solvers don't upload their files at all, so if this is the problem=20
then I suggest that you only publish your interesting files and just=20
record the move counts for the rest and just hang onto all of your log=20
files.

-Melinda

On 1/11/2013 11:29 AM, Eduard wrote:
> Solving of MT hyp {5,4} 24 V 0:0:1 ----- || 01/06/2013 || 1476
> Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 24 V 0:1:0 ----- || 01/07/2013 || 1986
> Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 12b V 0:1:0 ----- || 01/08/2013 || 856
> Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 12 V 0:1:0 ----- || 01/08/2013 || 967
> Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 6 V 0:1:0 ----- || 01/09/2013 || 265
> Solving of MT hyp {5,4} 12n V 0:0:1 ----- || 01/10/2013 || 604
>
> A package of not big pleasant to play puzzles.
> My 239th.
>
> Help!
> I cannot anymore upload files on wiki!
> Who knows why?
> Out of space problem on the wiki side?

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CDF065.819EBF00
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>

I have solved the problems with my l=
og files=20
(Baumann, Baumann2, Baumann3, Baumann4).

The new problem is for uploading=20
picture-files.

Try yourself to upload any picture.=

Best regards

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com">Melinda Green

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 10:=
38=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

Hello Eduard,

You may be right about room on the wiki. Maybe tr=
y=20
saving a big chunk of
your text, then deleting it, and then see if yo=
u can=20
edit again so we
know if that's it? If that's it I could see if my IS=
P=20
will give me more
space if you like. Either way, we're using the hono=
r=20
system anyway and
some solvers don't upload their files at all, so if=
this=20
is the problem
then I suggest that you only publish your interesting =
files=20
and just
record the move counts for the rest and just hang onto all o=
f=20
your log
files.

-Melinda

On 1/11/2013 11:29 AM, Eduard=
=20
wrote:
> Solving of MT hyp {5,4} 24 V 0:0:1 ----- || 01/06/2013 ||=
=20
1476
> Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 24 V 0:1:0 ----- || 01/07/2013 ||=20
1986
> Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 12b V 0:1:0 ----- || 01/08/2013 ||=20
856
> Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 12 V 0:1:0 ----- || 01/08/2013 ||=20
967
> Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 6 V 0:1:0 ----- || 01/09/2013 ||=20
265
> Solving of MT hyp {5,4} 12n V 0:0:1 ----- || 01/10/2013 ||=20
604
>
> A package of not big pleasant to play puzzles.
>=
; My=20
239th.
>
> Help!
> I cannot anymore upload files on=20
wiki!
> Who knows why?
> Out of space problem on the wiki=20
side?

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CDF065.819EBF00--

From: Roice Nelson <roice3@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 13:41:21 -0600
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

--f46d0434c3961ca69104d3e5c319
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

So how did you end up solving the parity issue? It looks like you overcame
it with just a few hundred moves. Was it a matter of moving those pieces
"around the tube" of the torus?

Roice

On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Eduard wrote:

> Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 24 E 1.4:0:0 ----- || 01/12/2013 || 1294
> Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 12b E 1.4:0:0 ----- || 01/13/2013 || 1160
> Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 12 E 1.4:0:0 ----- || 01/15/2013 || 758
> Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 6 E 1.4:0:0 ----- || 01/16/2013 || 560
> Solving of MT skew {4,4|7} 49 E 0:1.41:0 ----- || 01/22/2013 || 6306
>
> Only the last one =AB skew =BB was a BIG puzzle and has a parity issue.
> My 244th.
>

--f46d0434c3961ca69104d3e5c319
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

So how did you end up solving the parity issue? =A0It looks like you overca=
me it with just a few hundred moves. =A0Was it a matter of moving those pie=
ces "around the tube" of the torus?

Roice>

On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 12:09 =
PM, Eduard <arget=3D"_blank">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch> wrote:
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc soli=
d;padding-left:1ex">
Solving of =A0MT hyp {8,3} 24 E 1.4:0:0 ----- || =A001/12/2013 =A0|| 1294r>
Solving of =A0MT hyp {8,3} 12b E 1.4:0:0 ----- || =A001/13/2013 =A0|| 1160<=
br>
Solving of =A0MT hyp {8,3} 12 E 1.4:0:0 ----- || =A001/15/2013 =A0|| 758>
Solving of =A0MT hyp {8,3} 6 E 1.4:0:0 ----- || =A001/16/2013 =A0|| 560

Solving of =A0MT skew {4,4|7} 49 E 0:1.41:0 ----- || =A001/22/2013 =A0|| 63=
06

Only the last one =AB skew =BB was a BIG puzzle and has a parity issue.

My 244th.

--f46d0434c3961ca69104d3e5c319--

From: "Eduard Baumann" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 21:22:32 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_0020_01CDF8E6.974D1430
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Sorry, I declared "solve" without really finishing the puzzle (as I did wit=
h an other "parity puzzle").
Best regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Roice Nelson=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
So how did you end up solving the parity issue? It looks like you overca=
me it with just a few hundred moves. Was it a matter of moving those piece=
s "around the tube" of the torus?

Roice

On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Eduard wrote:

Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 24 E 1.4:0:0 ----- || 01/12/2013 || 1294
Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 12b E 1.4:0:0 ----- || 01/13/2013 || 1160
Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 12 E 1.4:0:0 ----- || 01/15/2013 || 758
Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 6 E 1.4:0:0 ----- || 01/16/2013 || 560
Solving of MT skew {4,4|7} 49 E 0:1.41:0 ----- || 01/22/2013 || 6306

Only the last one =AB skew =BB was a BIG puzzle and has a parity issue.
My 244th.

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_0020_01CDF8E6.974D1430
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>

Sorry, I declared "solve" without really f=
inishing=20
the puzzle (as I did with an other "parity puzzle").

Best regards

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
Roice Nelson=
=20

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:=
41=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

So how did you end up solving the parity issue? It looks like yo=
u=20
overcame it with just a few hundred moves. Was it a matter of movin=
g=20
those pieces "around the tube" of the torus?

Roice

On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Eduard dir=3Dltr>< target=3D_blank>ed.baumann@bluewin.ch> wrote:

Sol=
ving of=20
MT hyp {8,3} 24 E 1.4:0:0 ----- || 01/12/2013 ||=20
1294
Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 12b E 1.4:0:0 ----- ||=20
01/13/2013 || 1160
Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 12 E 1.=
4:0:0=20
----- || 01/15/2013 || 758
Solving of MT hyp {8,3}=
6 E=20
1.4:0:0 ----- || 01/16/2013 || 560
Solving of MT s=
kew=20
{4,4|7} 49 E 0:1.41:0 ----- || 01/22/2013 || 6306

On=
ly=20
the last one =AB skew =BB was a BIG puzzle and has a parity issue.
M=
y=20
244th.

------=_NextPart_000_0020_01CDF8E6.974D1430--

From: Melinda Green <melinda@superliminal.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2013 15:41:30 -0800
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

--------------030609090806090902000907
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Oh my. I don't feel that a puzzle has been solved unless it has been=20
completely finished from an appropriately large scramble. Other=20
opinions, anyone?

Like Roice, I wonder whether one or more pieces need to be sent "around=20
the horn". In this case there are two ways to do that involving the=20
small and large radius of the torus.

-Melinda

On 1/22/2013 12:22 PM, Eduard Baumann wrote:
>
>
> Sorry, I declared "solve" without really finishing the puzzle (as I=20
> did with an other "parity puzzle").
> Best regards
> Ed
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Roice Nelson
> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:41 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving
>
> So how did you end up solving the parity issue? It looks like you
> overcame it with just a few hundred moves. Was it a matter of
> moving those pieces "around the tube" of the torus?
>
>
> Roice
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Eduard > > wrote:
>
> Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 24 E 1.4:0:0 ----- || 01/12/2013 ||
> 1294
> Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 12b E 1.4:0:0 ----- || 01/13/2013
> || 1160
> Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 12 E 1.4:0:0 ----- || 01/15/2013 || 75=
8
> Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 6 E 1.4:0:0 ----- || 01/16/2013 || 560
> Solving of MT skew {4,4|7} 49 E 0:1.41:0 ----- || 01/22/2013
> || 6306
>
> Only the last one =AB skew =BB was a BIG puzzle and has a parity
> issue.
> My 244th.
>
>
>
>=20=20=20=20=20
>

--------------030609090806090902000907
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http-equiv="Content-Type">

Oh my. I don't feel that a puzzle has been solved unless it has been
completely finished from an appropriately large scramble. Other
opinions, anyone?

Like Roice, I wonder whether one or more pieces need to be sent
"around the horn". In this case there are two ways to do that
involving the small and large radius of the torus.

-Melinda

On 1/22/2013 12:22 PM, Eduard Baumann
wrote:

type="cite">

http-equiv="Content-Type">

Sorry, I declared "solve" without
really finishing the puzzle (as I did with an other "parity
puzzle").

Best regards

Ed

----- Original Message -----

From: title="roice3@gmail.com" href="mailto:roice3@gmail.com">Roice
Nelson

To: moz-do-not-send="true" title="4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
href="mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, January 22,
2013 8:41 PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D]
MagicTile Solving

So how did you end up solving the parity issue? It looks
like you overcame it with just a few hundred moves. Was it
a matter of moving those pieces "around the tube" of the
torus?

Roice

On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 12:09 PM,
Eduard < href="mailto:ed.baumann@bluewin.ch" target="_blank">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
wrote:

class="gmail_quote">Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 24 E
1.4:0:0 ----- || 01/12/2013 || 1294

Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 12b E 1.4:0:0 ----- ||
01/13/2013 || 1160

Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 12 E 1.4:0:0 ----- ||
01/15/2013 || 758

Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 6 E 1.4:0:0 ----- ||
01/16/2013 || 560

Solving of MT skew {4,4|7} 49 E 0:1.41:0 ----- ||
01/22/2013 || 6306

Only the last one « skew » was a BIG puzzle and has a
parity issue.

My 244th.

--------------030609090806090902000907--

From: "Eduard Baumann" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 01:30:43 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01CDF909.42FE8210
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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Sending "around the horn" doesn't help because the torus is to simple.
I tried these "sendings".
The two radii are the same (7).

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
Oh my. I don't feel that a puzzle has been solved unless it has been comp=
letely finished from an appropriately large scramble. Other opinions, anyon=
e?

Like Roice, I wonder whether one or more pieces need to be sent "around t=
he horn". In this case there are two ways to do that involving the small an=
d large radius of the torus.

-Melinda

On 1/22/2013 12:22 PM, Eduard Baumann wrote:

Sorry, I declared "solve" without really finishing the puzzle (as I did=
with an other "parity puzzle").
Best regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Roice Nelson=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
So how did you end up solving the parity issue? It looks like you ov=
ercame it with just a few hundred moves. Was it a matter of moving those p=
ieces "around the tube" of the torus?=20

Roice

On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Eduard wrot=
e:

Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 24 E 1.4:0:0 ----- || 01/12/2013 || 1294
Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 12b E 1.4:0:0 ----- || 01/13/2013 || 116=
0
Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 12 E 1.4:0:0 ----- || 01/15/2013 || 758
Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 6 E 1.4:0:0 ----- || 01/16/2013 || 560
Solving of MT skew {4,4|7} 49 E 0:1.41:0 ----- || 01/22/2013 || =
6306

Only the last one =AB skew =BB was a BIG puzzle and has a parity is=
sue.
My 244th.

=20=20
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Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>

Sending "around the horn" doesn't help because the torus is to=20
simple.

I tried these "sendings".

The two radii are the same (7).

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com">Melinda Green

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 =
12:41=20
AM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

Oh my. I don't feel that a puzzle has been solved unless it has been=20
completely finished from an appropriately large scramble. Other opinions,=
=20
anyone?

Like Roice, I wonder whether one or more pieces need to be=
sent=20
"around the horn". In this case there are two ways to do that involving t=
he=20
small and large radius of the torus.

-Melinda

On 1/22/2013 12:22 PM, Eduard Baumann=20
wrote:

cite">

Sorry, I declared "solve" without real=
ly=20
finishing the puzzle (as I did with an other "parity puzzle").DIV>

Best regards

Ed

----- Original Message -----

From: =20
title=3Droice3@gmail.com href=3D"mailto:roice3@gmail.com" moz=3D"true=
">Roice=20
Nelson

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroup=
s.com"=20
moz=3D"true">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 201=
3 8:41=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=
=20
Solving

=20

So how did you end up solving the parity issue? It looks lik=
e you=20
overcame it with just a few hundred moves. Was it a matter of m=
oving=20
those pieces "around the tube" of the torus?

Roice

On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 12:09 PM, Eduard AN=20
dir=3Dltr><k=20
moz=3D"true">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch> wrote:

class=3Dgmail_quote>Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 24 E 1.4:0:0 ----=
- ||=20
01/12/2013 || 1294
Solving of MT hyp {8,3} 12b=
E=20
1.4:0:0 ----- || 01/13/2013 || 1160
Solving of =
;MT=20
hyp {8,3} 12 E 1.4:0:0 ----- || 01/15/2013 || 758
So=
lving=20
of MT hyp {8,3} 6 E 1.4:0:0 ----- || 01/16/2013 |=
|=20
560
Solving of MT skew {4,4|7} 49 E 0:1.41:0 ----- ||=20
01/22/2013 || 6306

Only the last one =AB skew =
=BB was a=20
BIG puzzle and has a parity issue.
My=20
244th.

------=_NextPart_000_0015_01CDF909.42FE8210--

From: Roice Nelson <roice3@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 11:59:26 -0600
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

--f46d040839d180554704d3f87425
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On the parity issue, I don't know the solution, but I have a few thoughts:

- A single twist is odd for edges (3 2-cycles). Doesn't this mean you
could fix your issue with by making a single twist, then solving with an
even number of twists from there?
- I wonder if studying this past thread, Parity on MC
m^n,
would help. Levi talks about the "double odd" situation of the 3^3, which
feels like it might be relevant.

I look forward to hearing the actual solution.

Roice

P.S. I agree with Melinda about what counts as a solve. Proving you can
solve a puzzle is definitely worthwhile too, even if you don't carry out
all the motions. This was enough for me on the 120-cell, for instance :)
But it seems like the wiki list should be reserved for actual solves. And
in any case, it sounds like this puzzle is still unsolved from either
perspective.

On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Eduard Baumann wrote:

> **
>
>
> Sending "around the horn" doesn't help because the torus is to simple.
> I tried these "sendings".
> The two radii are the same (7).
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Melinda Green
> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 23, 2013 12:41 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving
>
>
>
> Oh my. I don't feel that a puzzle has been solved unless it has been
> completely finished from an appropriately large scramble. Other opinions,
> anyone?
>
> Like Roice, I wonder whether one or more pieces need to be sent "around
> the horn". In this case there are two ways to do that involving the small
> and large radius of the torus.
>
> -Melinda
>
>

--f46d040839d180554704d3f87425
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On the parity issue, I don't know the solution, but I have a few t=
houghts:

A single twist is odd for edges (3 2-cycles). =A0Doesn't this mean =
you could fix your issue with by making a single twist, then solving with a=
n even number of twists from there? =A0
I wonder if studying this p=
ast thread, e/624" target=3D"_blank">Parity on MC m^n, would help. =A0Levi talks ab=
out the "double odd" situation of the 3^3, which feels like it mi=
ght be relevant.

I look forward to hearing the actual solution.
r>
Roice

P.S. I agree with Melinda about=
what counts as a solve. =A0Proving you can solve a puzzle is definitely wo=
rthwhile too, even if you don't carry out all the motions. =A0This was =
enough for me on the 120-cell, for instance :) =A0But it seems like the wik=
i list should be reserved for actual solves. =A0And in any case, it sounds =
like this puzzle is still unsolved from either perspective.

On Tue, Jan 22, 2013=
at 6:30 PM, Eduard Baumann <ann@bluewin.ch" target=3D"_blank">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch> wrot=
e:

x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20

Sending=A0"around the horn" doesn't help because the tor=
us is to=20
simple.

I tried these "sendings".

The two radii are the same (7).

=A0

-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px">

----- Original Message -----

From:=20
.com" target=3D"_blank">Melinda Green

To: ps.com" href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com" target=3D"_blank">4D_Cubi=
ng@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 1=
2:41=20
AM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=20
Solving

=A0=20

Oh my. I don't feel that a puzzle has been solved unless it has be=
en=20
completely finished from an appropriately large scramble. Other opinions,=
=20
anyone?

Like Roice, I wonder whether one or more pieces need to be=
sent=20
"around the horn". In this case there are two ways to do that i=
nvolving the=20
small and large radius of the torus.

-Melinda

lockquote>

--f46d040839d180554704d3f87425--

From: "Eduard Baumann" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 22:18:09 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CDF9B7.864EE060
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks for responding.
The problem is still unsolved for me.
I had already carefully analysed the composition of a single twist.
Everybody can himself verify his opinions with an unscrambled version of th=
is puzzle.
Kind regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Roice Nelson=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20

On the parity issue, I don't know the solution, but I have a few thoughts=
:
a.. A single twist is odd for edges (3 2-cycles). Doesn't this mean yo=
u could fix your issue with by making a single twist, then solving with an =
even number of twists from there?=20=20
b.. I wonder if studying this past thread, Parity on MC m^n, would help=
. Levi talks about the "double odd" situation of the 3^3, which feels like=
it might be relevant.=20
I look forward to hearing the actual solution.

Roice

P.S. I agree with Melinda about what counts as a solve. Proving you can =
solve a puzzle is definitely worthwhile too, even if you don't carry out al=
l the motions. This was enough for me on the 120-cell, for instance :) Bu=
t it seems like the wiki list should be reserved for actual solves. And in=
any case, it sounds like this puzzle is still unsolved from either perspec=
tive.

On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Eduard Baumann w=
rote:

Sending "around the horn" doesn't help because the torus is to simple.
I tried these "sendings".
The two radii are the same (7).

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
Oh my. I don't feel that a puzzle has been solved unless it has been =
completely finished from an appropriately large scramble. Other opinions, a=
nyone?

Like Roice, I wonder whether one or more pieces need to be sent "arou=
nd the horn". In this case there are two ways to do that involving the smal=
l and large radius of the torus.

-Melinda

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CDF9B7.864EE060
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>

Thanks for responding.

The problem is still unsolved for me.T>

I had already carefully analysed the compo=
sition of=20
a single twist.

Everybody can himself verify his opinions =
with an=20
unscrambled version of this puzzle.

Kind regards

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
Roice Nelson=
=20

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 =
6:59=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

On the parity issue, I don't know the solution, but I have a few=20
thoughts:

A single twist is odd for edges (3 2-cycles). Doesn't this me=
an=20
you could fix your issue with by making a single twist, then solving wi=
th an=20
even number of twists from there?

I wonder if studying this past thread, href=3D"http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/message/624"=20
target=3D_blank>Parity on MC m^n, would help. Levi talks abou=
t the=20
"double odd" situation of the 3^3, which feels like it might be relevan=
t.=20

I look forward to hearing the actual solution.

Roice

P.S. I agree with Melinda about what counts as a solve. Provin=
g you=20
can solve a puzzle is definitely worthwhile too, even if you don't carry =
out=20
all the motions. This was enough for me on the 120-cell, for instan=
ce :)=20
But it seems like the wiki list should be reserved for actual solve=
s.=20
And in any case, it sounds like this puzzle is still unsolved from=
=20
either perspective.

On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Eduard Baumann =
dir=3Dltr>< target=3D_blank>ed.baumann@bluewin.ch> wrote:

=

Sending "around the horn" doesn't help because the torus is t=
o=20
simple.

I tried these "sendings".

The two radii are the same (7).

----- Original Message -----

From: =20
title=3Dmelinda@superliminal.com href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.=
com"=20
target=3D_blank>Melinda Green

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroup=
s.com"=20
target=3D_blank>4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2=
013=20
12:41 AM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=
=20
Solving

=20

Oh my. I don't feel that a puzzle has been solved unless it has be=
en=20
completely finished from an appropriately large scramble. Other opini=
ons,=20
anyone?

Like Roice, I wonder whether one or more pieces need t=
o be=20
sent "around the horn". In this case there are two ways to do that=20
involving the small and large radius of the=20
torus.

-Melinda

V>

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CDF9B7.864EE060--

From: Roice Nelson <roice3@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 15:53:14 -0600
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

--f46d042c6aeba76bc604d3fbb815
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

If you click "Options -> Reset View", is the orientation of colors still
the same as in your picture? (If so, this will exclude the possibility of
a global orientation effect.)

Roice

On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Eduard Baumann wrote:

> **
>
>
> Thanks for responding.
> The problem is still unsolved for me.
> I had already carefully analysed the composition of a single twist.
> Everybody can himself verify his opinions with an unscrambled version of
> this puzzle.
> Kind regards
> Ed
>
>

--f46d042c6aeba76bc604d3fbb815
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

If you click "Options -> Reset View", is the orientation of co=
lors still the same as in your picture? =A0(If so, this will exclude the po=
ssibility of a global orientation effect.)

Roice
iv>

On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Eduard =
Baumann <et=3D"_blank">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch> wrote:
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20

Thanks for responding.

The problem is still unsolved for me.>
I had already carefully analysed the composition =
of=20
a single twist.

Everybody can himself verify his opinions with an=
=20
unscrambled version of this puzzle.

Kind regards

Ed

=A0

--f46d042c6aeba76bc604d3fbb815--

From: "Eduard Baumann" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 00:18:21 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CDF9C8.511D69F0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yes,=20
if I click "Options -> Reset View", the orientation of colors is still the =
same as in my picture.
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20

From: Roice Nelson=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
If you click "Options -> Reset View", is the orientation of colors still =
the same as in your picture? (If so, this will exclude the possibility of =
a global orientation effect.)

Roice

On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Eduard Baumann w=
rote:

Thanks for responding.
The problem is still unsolved for me.
I had already carefully analysed the composition of a single twist.
Everybody can himself verify his opinions with an unscrambled version o=
f this puzzle.
Kind regards
Ed

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CDF9C8.511D69F0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>

Yes,

if I click "Options -> Reset View", the orientation of colors is st=
ill=20
the same as in my picture.

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
Roice Nelson=
=20

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 =
10:53=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

If you click "Options -> Reset View", is the orientation of colors =
still=20
the same as in your picture? (If so, this will exclude the possibil=
ity=20
of a global orientation effect.)

Roice

On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Eduard Baumann =
dir=3Dltr>< target=3D_blank>ed.baumann@bluewin.ch> wrote:

=

Thanks for responding.

The problem is still unsolved for me.IV>

I had already carefully analysed the compositio=
n of a=20
single twist.

Everybody can himself verify his opinions with =
an=20
unscrambled version of this puzzle.

Kind regards

Ed

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01CDF9C8.511D69F0--

From: Melinda Green <melinda@superliminal.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2013 15:44:17 -0800
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

--------------000707000503070702050507
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Hey wait, this isn't just another instance of the indistinguishable cyan
& aqua colors (#7 and 27) is it?
-Melinda

On 1/23/2013 3:18 PM, Eduard Baumann wrote:
>
>
> Yes,
> if I click "Options -> Reset View", the orientation of colors is still
> the same as in my picture.
> Ed
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Roice Nelson
> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 23, 2013 10:53 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving
>
> If you click "Options -> Reset View", is the orientation of colors
> still the same as in your picture? (If so, this will exclude the
> possibility of a global orientation effect.)
>
>
> Roice
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Eduard Baumann
> > wrote:
>
>
>
> Thanks for responding.
> The problem is still unsolved for me.
> I had already carefully analysed the composition of a single
> twist.
> Everybody can himself verify his opinions with an unscrambled
> version of this puzzle.
> Kind regards
> Ed
>
>
>
>
>

--------------000707000503070702050507
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http-equiv="Content-Type">

Hey wait, this isn't just another instance of the indistinguishable
cyan & aqua colors (#7 and 27) is it?

-Melinda

On 1/23/2013 3:18 PM, Eduard Baumann
wrote:

type="cite">

http-equiv="Content-Type">

Yes,

if I click "Options -> Reset View", the orientation of
colors is still the same as in my picture.

Ed

----- Original Message -----

From: title="roice3@gmail.com" href="mailto:roice3@gmail.com">Roice
Nelson

To: moz-do-not-send="true" title="4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
href="mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, January
23, 2013 10:53 PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D]
MagicTile Solving

If you click "Options -> Reset View", is the orientation
of colors still the same as in your picture? (If so, this
will exclude the possibility of a global orientation
effect.)

Roice

On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 3:18 PM,
Eduard Baumann < moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ed.baumann@bluewin.ch" target="_blank">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
wrote:

class="gmail_quote">

Thanks for responding.

The problem is still unsolved
for me.

I had already carefully
analysed the composition of a single twist.

Everybody can himself verify
his opinions with an unscrambled version of this
puzzle.

Kind regards

Ed

--------------000707000503070702050507--

From: "Eduard Baumann" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2013 13:48:55 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_0074_01CDFA39.8D80F0D0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

22.1.13=20
I wrote:
I have perfectly controlled the similar colors
yellow-gold,
cyan-aqua and
white-mintCream.

Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 12:44 AM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
Hey wait, this isn't just another instance of the indistinguishable cyan =
& aqua colors (#7 and 27) is it?
-Melinda

On 1/23/2013 3:18 PM, Eduard Baumann wrote:

Yes,=20
if I click "Options -> Reset View", the orientation of colors is still =
the same as in my picture.
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20

From: Roice Nelson=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
If you click "Options -> Reset View", is the orientation of colors st=
ill the same as in your picture? (If so, this will exclude the possibility=
of a global orientation effect.)=20

Roice

On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Eduard Baumann h> wrote:

Thanks for responding.
The problem is still unsolved for me.
I had already carefully analysed the composition of a single twist.
Everybody can himself verify his opinions with an unscrambled versi=
on of this puzzle.
Kind regards
Ed

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_0074_01CDFA39.8D80F0D0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>

22.1.13

I wrote:

I have perfectly controlled the similar colors
yellow-gold,
cyan-a=
qua=20
and
white-mintCream.

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com">Melinda Green

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2013 1=
2:44=20
AM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

Hey wait, this isn't just another instance of the indistinguishable cy=
an=20
& aqua colors (#7 and 27) is it?
-Melinda

On 1/23/2013 3:18 PM, Eduard Baumann=20
wrote:

cite">

Yes,

if I click "Options -> Reset View", the orientation of colors i=
s=20
still the same as in my picture.

Ed

----- Original Message -----

From: =20
title=3Droice3@gmail.com href=3D"mailto:roice3@gmail.com" moz=3D"true=
">Roice=20
Nelson

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroup=
s.com"=20
moz=3D"true">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2=
013=20
10:53 PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=
=20
Solving

=20

If you click "Options -> Reset View", is the orientation of col=
ors=20
still the same as in your picture? (If so, this will exclude th=
e=20
possibility of a global orientation effect.)

Roice

On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Eduard Baum=
ann=20
<=3D_blank=20
moz=3D"true">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch> wrote:

>

Thanks for responding.

The problem is still unsolved for me.>

I had already carefully analysed the compos=
ition=20
of a single twist.

Everybody can himself verify his opinions w=
ith an=20
unscrambled version of this puzzle.

Kind regards

Ed

TE>

------=_NextPart_000_0074_01CDFA39.8D80F0D0--

From: "schuma" <mananself@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 08:15:03 -0000
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

I started from the solved state, and successfully created the parity case. =
Please find the steps in this file:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/files/Nan%20Ma/MagicTileFiles=
/Skew447_49CE01410.xml

Although the whole process is 1000+ steps, the crucial moves are the first =
FOURTEEN turns. You can open the file, ctrl-z to the beginning and ctrl+y t=
o see how it was done. All the rest moves are solving the side effects...

To create this parity, we need to make some turns such that=20
(1) the edges on each horizontal line (in the default view) are turned an e=
ven number of times;
(2) the edges on each vertical line are turned an even number of times;
(3) all the edges in the "\" direction are turned an odd number of times;
(4) all the edges in the "/" direction are turned an odd number of times.

(1) and (2) guarantee that the diamond-shaped pieces can be solved by commu=
tators. (3) and (4) create the parity.

The simplest way to create the parity, I think, is to choose one diagonal l=
ine in the "\" direction, and turn all the seven pieces on it; then choose =
one diagonal line "/" and turn all the seven pieces on it. So the total num=
ber of moves to create a parity is 14. The total picture would be like a bi=
g "X". It's easy to verify that this sequence satisfy (1)~(4), (this argume=
nt relies on the fact that 7 is odd).

I didn't use this pattern because the side effect doesn't have much symmetr=
y. So I choose to turn seven edges on one line "\", and the adjacent seven =
edges in the "/" direction.

Ed, nice discovery. This is indeed a parity that I've never seen before. Th=
anks!

Nan

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Roice Nelson wrote:
>
> On the parity issue, I don't know the solution, but I have a few thoughts=
:
>=20
> - A single twist is odd for edges (3 2-cycles). Doesn't this mean you
> could fix your issue with by making a single twist, then solving with =
an
> even number of twists from there?
> - I wonder if studying this past thread, Parity on MC
> m^n ,
> would help. Levi talks about the "double odd" situation of the 3^3, w=
hich
> feels like it might be relevant.
>=20
> I look forward to hearing the actual solution.
>=20
> Roice
>=20
> P.S. I agree with Melinda about what counts as a solve. Proving you can
> solve a puzzle is definitely worthwhile too, even if you don't carry out
> all the motions. This was enough for me on the 120-cell, for instance :)
> But it seems like the wiki list should be reserved for actual solves. A=
nd
> in any case, it sounds like this puzzle is still unsolved from either
> perspective.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Eduard Baumann wrote:
>=20
> > **
> >
> >
> > Sending "around the horn" doesn't help because the torus is to simple.
> > I tried these "sendings".
> > The two radii are the same (7).
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* Melinda Green=20
> > *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 23, 2013 12:41 AM
> > *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving
> >
> >
> >
> > Oh my. I don't feel that a puzzle has been solved unless it has been
> > completely finished from an appropriately large scramble. Other opinion=
s,
> > anyone?
> >
> > Like Roice, I wonder whether one or more pieces need to be sent "around
> > the horn". In this case there are two ways to do that involving the sma=
ll
> > and large radius of the torus.
> >
> > -Melinda
> >
> >
>

From: "Eduard Baumann" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 10:39:26 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01CDFBB1.69A1D890
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Marvelous! You are the greatest.
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: schuma=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
I started from the solved state, and successfully created the parity case=
. Please find the steps in this file:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/files/Nan%20Ma/MagicTileFil=
es/Skew447_49CE01410.xml

Although the whole process is 1000+ steps, the crucial moves are the firs=
t FOURTEEN turns. You can open the file, ctrl-z to the beginning and ctrl+y=
to see how it was done. All the rest moves are solving the side effects...

To create this parity, we need to make some turns such that=20
(1) the edges on each horizontal line (in the default view) are turned an=
even number of times;
(2) the edges on each vertical line are turned an even number of times;
(3) all the edges in the "\" direction are turned an odd number of times;
(4) all the edges in the "/" direction are turned an odd number of times.

(1) and (2) guarantee that the diamond-shaped pieces can be solved by com=
mutators. (3) and (4) create the parity.

The simplest way to create the parity, I think, is to choose one diagonal=
line in the "\" direction, and turn all the seven pieces on it; then choos=
e one diagonal line "/" and turn all the seven pieces on it. So the total n=
umber of moves to create a parity is 14. The total picture would be like a =
big "X". It's easy to verify that this sequence satisfy (1)~(4), (this argu=
ment relies on the fact that 7 is odd).

I didn't use this pattern because the side effect doesn't have much symme=
try. So I choose to turn seven edges on one line "\", and the adjacent seve=
n edges in the "/" direction.

Ed, nice discovery. This is indeed a parity that I've never seen before. =
Thanks!

Nan

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Roice Nelson wrote:
>
> On the parity issue, I don't know the solution, but I have a few though=
ts:
>=20
> - A single twist is odd for edges (3 2-cycles). Doesn't this mean you
> could fix your issue with by making a single twist, then solving with a=
n
> even number of twists from there?
> - I wonder if studying this past thread, Parity on MC
> m^n ,
> would help. Levi talks about the "double odd" situation of the 3^3, whi=
ch
> feels like it might be relevant.
>=20
> I look forward to hearing the actual solution.
>=20
> Roice
>=20
> P.S. I agree with Melinda about what counts as a solve. Proving you can
> solve a puzzle is definitely worthwhile too, even if you don't carry ou=
t
> all the motions. This was enough for me on the 120-cell, for instance :=
)
> But it seems like the wiki list should be reserved for actual solves. A=
nd
> in any case, it sounds like this puzzle is still unsolved from either
> perspective.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Eduard Baumann wrote:
>=20
> > **
> >
> >
> > Sending "around the horn" doesn't help because the torus is to simple=
.
> > I tried these "sendings".
> > The two radii are the same (7).
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* Melinda Green=20
> > *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 23, 2013 12:41 AM
> > *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving
> >
> >
> >
> > Oh my. I don't feel that a puzzle has been solved unless it has been
> > completely finished from an appropriately large scramble. Other opini=
ons,
> > anyone?
> >
> > Like Roice, I wonder whether one or more pieces need to be sent "arou=
nd
> > the horn". In this case there are two ways to do that involving the s=
mall
> > and large radius of the torus.
> >
> > -Melinda
> >
> >
>

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01CDFBB1.69A1D890
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>

Marvelous! You are the greatest.IV>

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
schuma=
=20

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 9=
:15=20
AM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

I started from the solved state, and successfully created the parity c=
ase.=20
Please find the steps in this file:

href=3D"http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/files/Nan%20Ma/Magi=
cTileFiles/Skew447_49CE01410.xml">http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cu=
bing/files/Nan%20Ma/MagicTileFiles/Skew447_49CE01410.xml

Althoug=
h=20
the whole process is 1000+ steps, the crucial moves are the first FOURTEE=
N=20
turns. You can open the file, ctrl-z to the beginning and ctrl+y to see h=
ow it=20
was done. All the rest moves are solving the side effects...

To cr=
eate=20
this parity, we need to make some turns such that
(1) the edges on ea=
ch=20
horizontal line (in the default view) are turned an even number of=20
times;
(2) the edges on each vertical line are turned an even number o=
f=20
times;
(3) all the edges in the "\" direction are turned an odd number=
of=20
times;
(4) all the edges in the "/" direction are turned an odd number=
of=20
times.

(1) and (2) guarantee that the diamond-shaped pieces can be=
=20
solved by commutators. (3) and (4) create the parity.

The simplest=
way=20
to create the parity, I think, is to choose one diagonal line in the "\"=
=20
direction, and turn all the seven pieces on it; then choose one diagonal =
line=20
"/" and turn all the seven pieces on it. So the total number of moves to=
=20
create a parity is 14. The total picture would be like a big "X". It's ea=
sy to=20
verify that this sequence satisfy (1)~(4), (this argument relies on the f=
act=20
that 7 is odd).

I didn't use this pattern because the side effect=
=20
doesn't have much symmetry. So I choose to turn seven edges on one line "=
\",=20
and the adjacent seven edges in the "/" direction.

Ed, nice discov=
ery.=20
This is indeed a parity that I've never seen before.=20
Thanks!

Nan

--- In href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing%40yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=
, Roice=20
Nelson wrote:
>
> On the parity issue, I don't know the solut=
ion,=20
but I have a few thoughts:
>
> - A single twist is odd for e=
dges=20
(3 2-cycles). Doesn't this mean you
> could fix your issue with by=
=20
making a single twist, then solving with an
> even number of twists=
from=20
there?
> - I wonder if studying this past thread, Parity on MC
&=
gt;=20
m^n ,
> would help. Levi talks about the "double odd" situation of =
the=20
3^3, which
> feels like it might be relevant.
>
> I lo=
ok=20
forward to hearing the actual solution.
>
> Roice
>=20

> P.S. I agree with Melinda about what counts as a solve. Proving =
you=20
can
> solve a puzzle is definitely worthwhile too, even if you don'=
t=20
carry out
> all the motions. This was enough for me on the 120-cell=
, for=20
instance :)
> But it seems like the wiki list should be reserved fo=
r=20
actual solves. And
> in any case, it sounds like this puzzle is sti=
ll=20
unsolved from either
> perspective.
>
>
>
&=
gt;=20
On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 6:30 PM, Eduard Baumann wrote:
>
> &=
gt;=20
**
> >
> >
> > Sending "around the horn" doesn=
't=20
help because the torus is to simple.
> > I tried these=20
"sendings".
> > The two radii are the same (7).
> >
=
>=20
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* Melin=
da=20
Green
> > *To:* href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing%40yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=

>=20
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 23, 2013 12:41 AM
> > *Subject:*=
Re:=20
[MC4D] MagicTile Solving
> >
> >
> >
> &=
gt;=20
Oh my. I don't feel that a puzzle has been solved unless it has been
&=
gt;=20
> completely finished from an appropriately large scramble. Other=20
opinions,
> > anyone?
> >
> > Like Roice, I wo=
nder=20
whether one or more pieces need to be sent "around
> > the horn"=
. In=20
this case there are two ways to do that involving the small
> > =
and=20
large radius of the torus.
> >
> > -Melinda
>=20
>
> >
>

>

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01CDFBB1.69A1D890--

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 21:57:21 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT skew {4,4|7} 49 E 0:1.41:0 ----- || 01/26/2013 || 7578

Finished with great help from Nan. Thanks!
Fascinating parity aspect.

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2013 19:13:09 -0800
Subject: MagicTile Solving

--------------040309080506060102080400
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Congratulations, Eduard!! I think that we can all understand your pain
when you got stuck and also your joy when you finally completed your
solution.

So do the related skew puzzles have the same strange property including
the 9-color {4,4|3} ? And if so, are the odds of encountering the
problem related to the number of colors involved?

It was very nice of you to call out Nan's help in your recording

of your solution.

Best,
-Melinda

On 1/26/2013 1:57 PM, Eduard wrote:
> Solving of MT skew {4,4|7} 49 E 0:1.41:0 ----- || 01/26/2013 || 7578
>
> Finished with great help from Nan. Thanks!
> Fascinating parity aspect.

--------------040309080506060102080400
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http-equiv="Content-Type">

Congratulations, Eduard!! I think that we can all understand your
pain when you got stuck and also your joy when you finally completed
your solution.

So do the related skew puzzles have the same strange property
including the 9-color {4,4|3} ? And if so, are the odds of
encountering the problem related to the number of colors involved?

It was very nice of you to call out Nan's help in href="http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_v2_Solutions#Edge_Twisting_61">your
recording of your solution.

Best,

-Melinda

On 1/26/2013 1:57 PM, Eduard wrote:

Solving of  MT skew {4,4|7} 49 E 0:1.41:0 ----- ||  01/26/2013  || 7578

Finished with great help from Nan. Thanks!
Fascinating parity aspect.

--------------040309080506060102080400--

From: "Eduard Baumann" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 11:11:45 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01CDFC7F.17DEB590
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yeah,
I think that the odd cases {4,4|3}, {4,4|5} and {4,4|7} all show this stran=
ge property. I started with the case 7 by chance. I certainly will do the s=
impler ones too. Perhaps the odds of encountering the problem is even high=
er in the simpler cases.
Best regards
Ed=20

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 4:13 AM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
Congratulations, Eduard!! I think that we can all understand your pain wh=
en you got stuck and also your joy when you finally completed your solution=
.

So do the related skew puzzles have the same strange property including t=
he 9-color {4,4|3} ? And if so, are the odds of encountering the problem re=
lated to the number of colors involved?

It was very nice of you to call out Nan's help in your recording of your =
solution.

Best,
-Melinda

On 1/26/2013 1:57 PM, Eduard wrote:

Solving of MT skew {4,4|7} 49 E 0:1.41:0 ----- || 01/26/2013 || 7578

Finished with great help from Nan. Thanks!
Fascinating parity aspect.

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01CDFC7F.17DEB590
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>

Yeah,

I think that the odd cases {4,4|3},=
=20
{4,4|5} and {4,4|7} all=
show=20
this strange property. I started with the case 7 =
by=20
chance. I certainly will do the simpler ones too. Perhaps the odds &nb=
sp;of=20
encountering the problem is even higher in the simpler=20
cases.

Best regards

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com">Melinda Green

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 4:1=
3=20
AM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

Congratulations, Eduard!! I think that we can all understand your pain=
when=20
you got stuck and also your joy when you finally completed your=20
solution.

So do the related skew puzzles have the same strange pro=
perty=20
including the 9-color {4,4|3} ? And if so, are the odds of encountering t=
he=20
problem related to the number of colors involved?

It was very nice=
of=20
you to call out Nan's help in href=3D"http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_v2_Solutions#Edge_Twi=
sting_61">your=20
recording of your solution.

Best,
-Melinda

On 1/26/2013 1:57 PM, Eduard wrote:
>

So=
lving of  MT skew {4,4|7} 49 E 0:1.41:0 ----- ||  01/26/2013  || 7578

Finished with great help from Nan. Thanks!
Fascinating parity aspect.

------=_NextPart_000_0008_01CDFC7F.17DEB590--

From: Melinda Green <melinda@superliminal.com>
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2013 21:33:50 -0800
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

I think that you are so far ahead that Nobody will try to catch you.
Just like how Nan owns GelatinBrain, you now own MT. Now it is a race to
see if you can solve puzzles faster than Roice can add them, and I'm not
making any bets!

Good luck to you both,
-Melinda

On 2/2/2013 9:29 AM, Eduard wrote:
> Solving of MT skew {4,4|3} 9 E 0:1.41:0 ----- || 01/31/2013 || 1696
> Solving of MT skew {4,4|5} 25 E 0:1.41:0 ----- || 02/02/2013 || 4306
>
> Remark:
>
> The two small brothers (9 and 25) of the PitDeoDom familly. The odds are certainly not smaller than 50% to encounter the parity problem. I encountered it in all my three cases! Do first only the diamond faces and the edges to see the parity. Eventually repair the parity. Then only handle the triangular faces, the central faces and the corners.
> My 246th MT solving. Where are the other solvers? Are they writing a book ? ;-)

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2013 20:38:02 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT skew {4,4|4} 16 E 0:1.41:0 ----- || 02/03/2013 || 1768
Solving of MT skew {4,4|6} 36 E 0:1.41:0 ----- || 02/05/2013 || 5194

Remark

The even PitDeeDom familly. New parity aspect. Encountered (by chance) only=
in the bigger 36 color. Again : Do first only the diamond faces and the ed=
ges to see the parity. Eventually repair the parity. Then only handle the t=
riangular faces, the central faces and the corners.
My 248th MT solving.=20

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2013 23:06:27 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT skew {6,4|3} 20 f 0:0:1.3 ----- || 02/08/2013 || 3956
Solving of MT IRP {4,6} 18 e 1:0:0 ----- || 02/09/2013 || 2512

Remark

MT IRP {4,6} 18 e 1:0:0 is not a monster (much less than 5000 twists) but a=
stonishingly hard to solve (the cornerEdges).
The colors aren't at all topologically equal and the reference point of the=
macros often doesn't work. Nan, try this "non low hanging fruit" !

My 250th MT solving (half time on the way from 200th to 300th).=20

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 01:35:07 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT hyp {3,8} 10 f010 v001 ----- || 02/10/2013 || 1517
Solving of MT hyp {3,8} 8 f010 v001 ----- || 02/11/2013 || 1321
Solving of MT eucl torus {6,3} 16 e010 v001 ----- || 02/11/2013 || 206
Solving of MT eucl torus {6,3} 7 e010 v001 ----- || 01/12/2013 || 143
Solving of MT eucl torus {4,4} 16 e010 v001 ----- || 02/13/2013 || 2208
Solving of MT eucl torus {4,4} 9 e010 v001 ----- || 02/14/2013 || 946
Solving of MT eucl torus {4,4} 8 e010 v001 ----- || 02/16/2013 || 1052
Solving of MT eucl klein {4,4} 9 fev 0.7:0:0 ----- || 02/17/2013 || 624

Easier puzzles.
My 258th MT solving.

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 16:12:23 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT eucl klein {4,4} 9 e010 v001 ----- || 02/19/2013 || 1156
Remark : This puzzle also has a special parity aspect. After 1000 twists=
I was left with a single swap of two small corneredges. I think that a shi=
ft of the whole puzzle does change the parity. I had to restart and careful=
ly avoid such a shift.

Solving of MT eucl klein {6,3} 9 e100 v100 ----- || 02/23/2013 || 551
Remark : easy.

My 260th MT.

Toda Mario Cologna has become worldchampion in cross-country-skiing.

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2013 18:04:32 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT eucl klein {6,3} 9 f101 e100 v100 ----- || 02/24/2013 || 6=
76
Remark : -

Solving of MT eucl klein {6,3} 9 f100 e100 ----- || 02/23/2013 || 376
Remark : -

Solving of MT eucl torus {3,6} 8 e010 v001 ----- || 02/24/2013 || 1846
Remark : Not easy to find a single 3-cycle for the edges !

My 263th MT.

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 16:11:22 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT eucl torus {3,6} 8 e010 v001 ----- || 02/24/2013 || 282
Remark : -

Solving of MT eucl torus {6,3} 16 f100 e100 ----- || 02/27/2013 || 277
Remark : -

Solving of MT eucl torus {6,3} 16 e100 v100 ----- || 02/27/2013 || 739
Remark : -

Solving of MT eucl torus {6,3} 16 f101 e100 v100 ----- || 02/28/2013 || =
1043
Remark : -

Solving of MT eucl torus {4,4} 16 fev 0.7:0:0 ----- || 02/28/2013 || 544
Remark : -

Solving of MT eucl torus {4,4} 16 f010 e100 v100 ----- || 03/05/2013 || =
4735
Remark : this is a big puzzle

My 269th MT, still 31 to go.

Competitors are welcome !
Happy puzzling !

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 00:41:44 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT hyp {3,8} 8 e010 v100 ----- || 03/06/2013 || 560
Remark : -

Solving of MT hyp {3,8} 10 e010 v100 ----- || 03/08/2013 || 992
Remark : -

Solving of MT hyp {5,4} 24 f010 e100 ----- || 03/09/2013 || 1711
Remark : -

Solving of MT hyp {5,4} 12no f010 e100 ----- || 03/10/2013 || 966
Remark : -

Solving of MT hyp {5,4} 24 e010 ----- || 03/11/2013 || 4438
Remark : Big puzzle

Solving of MT irp {6,4} 8 e010 ----- || 03/12/2013 || 1752
Remark : You can rotate corners only by 180=B0 in pairs. If you see a co=
rner at home rotated by 90=B0 you have to switch this corner with his partn=
er (they are doubled).

Solving of MT irp {4,6} 12b e100 ----- || 03/14/2013 || 944
Remark : -

My 276th MT, still 24 to go.
These 7 solvings are not concerned with the new parity problem.

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2013 18:08:10 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT ell sph cube e010 v001 ----- || 03/23/2013 || 579
Remark : The rotation of a single corner is possible! Did cost an extra =
of 149 twists.

Solving of MT ell sph octa e010 v001 ----- || 03/24/2013 || 339
Remark : -

Solving of MT ell proj icosa e010 v001 ----- || 03/26/2013 || 543
Remark : Not easy. Started three times to avoid a parity issue.

Solving of MT ell proj dodeca f101 e100 v100 ----- || 03/27/2013 || 386
Remark : Not easy.

My 280th MT, still 20 to go.

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 22:07:14 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT irp {4,6} c18 v020 ----- || 04/08/2013 || 1896
Remark : not easy

Solving of MT irp {4,6} b12 v020 ----- || 04/09/2013 || 3152
Remark : This 12 color is much more difficult than the 18 color.

Solving of MT eucl torus {6,3} 16 v001 ----- || 04/10/2013 || 672
Remark : -

Solving of MT eucl torus {6,3} 7 v001 ----- || 04/10/2013 || 246
Remark : -

Solving of MT eucl klein {6,3} 9 v001 ----- || 04/12/2013 || 535
Remark : -

Solving of MT eucl torus {4,4} 9 v 0:0:1.15 ----- || 04/13/2013 || 688
Remark : -

Solving of MT eucl klein {4,4} 9 v 0:0:1.15 ----- || 04/13/2013 || 680
Remark : -

My 294th MT, still 6 to go to 300.

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2013 21:57:07 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT hyp KQ {7,3} 24 v200 ----- || 04/14/2013 || 1951
Remark : -

Solving of MT irp {3,9} a36 v 0:0.5:1 ----- || 04/15/2013 || 1398
Remark : -

Solving of MT irp {3,9} b24 v 0:0.5:1 ----- || 04/16/2013 || 1029
Remark : -

Solving of MT irp {3,9} c24 v 0:0.5:1 ----- || 04/16/2013 || 1106
Remark : -=20

Solving of MT eucl torus {4,4} 16 e 0:1.41:0 ----- || 04/17/2013 || 2002
Remark : Big puzzle. Has the same parity issue as PitDeeDom (Baumann's 2=
nd theorem).

My 299th MT, still ONE to go to 300.

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2013 23:01:13 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

Solving of MT ell sph icosa f020 ----- || 06/29/2013 || 77239

Remark : My (300+1)th MagicTile. I had no short macro for the last stage=
with the cornerEdges.

From: "Eduard" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2013 09:34:15 -0000
Subject: MagicTile Solving

--7-0678791663-4785997169=:8
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

My friend Albert G=FCbeli in Raperswil CH (http://albinegri.ch/
) invents puzzles and addresses now his ShiftPole
with an internal mechanism. The former modell used transparent shelles.
He asked me to analyse the puzzle. I did it with a simulation in Excel.
It is a difficult puzzle. There are similar deepcuting puzzles in
MagicTile (MagicTile/ell/sph/cube/E101 and
MagicTile/ell/sph/octahedron/E200) and GelatinBrain (3.3.7 and 4.3.3).
My Excel simulation had 24 well differentiated oriented pieces. See
pictures in http://edu1618.jimdo.com/2013/07/01/shiftpole/

--7-0678791663-4785997169=:8
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">My friend Albert G=FCbeli
in Raperswil CH ("> lang=3D"EN-GB">http://albinegri.ch/style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;

">) invents puzzles and addresses now his ShiftPole with an internal
mechanism. The former modell used transparent shelles. He asked me to analy=
se
the puzzle. I did it with a simulation in Excel. It is a difficult puzzle.
There are similar deepcuting puzzles in MagicTile (MagicTile/ell/sph/cube/E=
101
and MagicTile/ell/sph/octahedron/E200) and GelatinBrain (3.3.7 and 4.3.3). =
My
Excel simulation had 24 well differentiated oriented pieces. See pictures i=
n
">13/07/01/shiftpole/">http://edu1618.jimdo.com/2013/07/=
01/shiftpole/

--7-0678791663-4785997169=:8--

From: <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: 23 Oct 2013 04:13:24 -0700
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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From: <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: 17 Nov 2013 03:29:49 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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--9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV--

From: <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: 17 Nov 2013 03:34:13 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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From: <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: 18 Nov 2013 14:28:02 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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From: <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: 18 Nov 2013 14:36:31 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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From: <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: 30 Nov 2013 03:34:13 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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--9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV--

From: <qqwref@yahoo.com>
Date: 05 Dec 2013 21:34:59 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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From: <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: 09 Dec 2013 05:15:40 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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From: <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: 09 Dec 2013 05:23:46 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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From: <qqwref@yahoo.com>
Date: 10 Dec 2013 17:24:44 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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--9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV--

From: Roice <roice3@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 20:02:16 -0600
Subject: Re: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

--Apple-Mail-C635ABA1-2B21-47B4-8671-9434D7969098
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ha! Maybe we should have a record for the most solutions in one day!

Roice=20

(sent from my phone)

> On Dec 10, 2013, at 7:24 PM, wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Uh oh, you guys are keeping track of how many puzzles each person's compl=
eted? I can't resist...
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Puzzles solved today (12/10/2013) (I have xml's of all of these if you wa=
nt them):
>=20
> - Tetrahedron F0:0:1 (6 twists)
> - Tetrahedron E1:0:0 (8 twists)
> - Tetrahedron E0:0:1 (36 twists)
> - Tetrahedron E1:0:0.5 (2 twists)
> - Tetrahedron V0:0:1 (8 twists)
> - Tetrahedron V0:0:1 V0:0:1.33 (63 twists)
> - Tetrahedron F1:0:0.5 V1:0:0.5 (15 twists)
> - Tetrahedron F0:1:0 V1:0:0 (10 twists)
> - Tetrahedron E0:1:0 V0:0:1 (48 twists)
> - Tetrahedron F1:0:0.5 E1:0:0.5 V1:0:0.5 (107 twists)
> - Octahedron F0:0:1 (13 twists)
> - Octahedron F0:2:0 (83 twists)
> - Octahedron F2:0:0 (18 twists)
> - Octahedron F0:2:0 F2:0:0 (258 twists)
> - Octahedron E0:1:0 (29 twists)
> - Octahedron E1:0:0 (65 twists)
> - Octahedron E1.33:0:0 (357 twists)
> - Octahedron V0:0:1 (33 twists)
> - Octahedron V1.5:0:0 (46 twists)
> - Octahedron V2:0:0 (1 twists)
> - Octahedron F0:1:0 V1:0:0 (54 twists)
> - Octahedron E0:1:0 V0:0:1 (164 twists)
> - Icosahedron F0:0:1 (383 twists)
> - Icosahedron E0:1:0 (148 twists)
> - Icosahedron V0:0:1 (120 twists)
> - Icosahedron V1.33:0:0 (175 twists)
> - Icosahedron F0:1:0 V1:0:0 (223 twists)
> - Cube F0:0:1 (20 twists)
> - Cube F0.67:0:1 (64 twists)
> - Cube F1:0:1 (22 twists)
> - Cube F0.5:0:1 F1:0:1 (144 twists)
> - Cube F0.4:0:1 F0.8:0:1 (228 twists)
> - Cube E1:0:0 (30 twists)
> - Cube E0:1:0 (69 twists)
> - Cube V1.3:0:0 (14 twists)
> - Cube V0:0:1 (21 twists)
> - Cube V2:0:0 (68 twists)
> - Cube V1:0:1 (21 twists)
> - Cube F0:1:0 V1:0:0 (37 twists)
> - Cube F-1:0:1 E1:0:0 V1:0:0 (184 twists)
> - Dodecahedron F0:0:1 (85 twists)
> - Dodecahedron F0.67:0:1 (189 twists)
> - Dodecahedron F0:2:0 (241 twists)
> - Dodecahedron E1:0:0 (133 twists)
> - Dodecahedron V1.5:0:0 (127 twists)
> - Dodecahedron V0:0:1 (322 twists)
> - Dodecahedron F0:1:0 V1:0:0 (165 twists)
>=20
> --Michael Gottlieb=20
>=20
>=20

--Apple-Mail-C635ABA1-2B21-47B4-8671-9434D7969098
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=3Dutf-8">

Ha! Maybe we should have a record =
for the most solutions in one day!

Roice
=

(sent from my phone)

On Dec 10, 2013, at 7=
:24 PM, <qqwref@yahoo.com> wr=
ote:

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20

Uh oh, you guys are keeping track of how many puzzles each person's comp=
leted? I can't resist...

ont-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;background-co=
lor:transparent;font-style:normal;">Puzzles solved today (12/10/2013) (I ha=
ve xml's of all of these if you want them):
- Tetrahedron F0:0:1 (6 twis=
ts)
- Tetrahedron E1:0:0 (8 twists)
- Tetrahedron E0:0:1 (36 twists)<=
br>- Tetrahedron E1:0:0.5 (2 twists)
- Tetrahedron V0:0:1 (8 twists)
=
- Tetrahedron V0:0:1 V0:0:1.33 (63 twists)
- Tetrahedron F1:0:0.5 V1:0:0=
.5 (15 twists)
- Tetrahedron F0:1:0 V1:0:0 (10 twists)
- Tetrahedron =
E0:1:0 V0:0:1 (48 twists)
- Tetrahedron F1:0:0.5 E1:0:0.5 V1:0:0.5 (107 =
twists)
- Octahedron F0:0:1 (13 twists)
- Octahedron F0:2:0 (83 twist=
s)
- Octahedron F2:0:0 (18 twists)
- Octahedron F0:2:0 F2:0:0 (258 tw=
ists)
- Octahedron E0:1:0 (29 twists)
- Octahedron E1:0:0 (65 twists)=

- Octahedron E1.33:0:0 (357 twists)
- Octahedron V0:0:1 (33 twists)<=
br>- Octahedron V1.5:0:0 (46 twists)
- Octahedron V2:0:0 (1 twists)
-=
Octahedron F0:1:0 V1:0:0 (54 twists)
- Octahedron E0:1:0 V0:0:1 (164 tw=
ists)
- Icosahedron F0:0:1 (383 twists)
- Icosahedron E0:1:0 (148 twi=
sts)
- Icosahedron V0:0:1 (120 twists)
- Icosahedron V1.33:0:0 (175 t=
wists)
- Icosahedron F0:1:0 V1:0:0 (223 twists)
- Cube F0:0:1 (20 twi=
sts)
- Cube F0.67:0:1 (64 twists)
- Cube F1:0:1 (22 twists)
- Cube=
F0.5:0:1 F1:0:1 (144 twists)
- Cube F0.4:0:1 F0.8:0:1 (228 twists)
-=
Cube E1:0:0 (30 twists)
- Cube E0:1:0 (69 twists)
- Cube V1.3:0:0 (1=
4 twists)
- Cube V0:0:1 (21 twists)
- Cube V2:0:0 (68 twists)
- Cu=
be V1:0:1 (21 twists)
- Cube F0:1:0 V1:0:0 (37 twists)
- Cube F-1:0:1=
E1:0:0 V1:0:0 (184 twists)
- Dodecahedron F0:0:1 (85 twists)
- Dodec=
ahedron F0.67:0:1 (189 twists)
- Dodecahedron F0:2:0 (241 twists)
- D=
odecahedron E1:0:0 (133 twists)
- Dodecahedron V1.5:0:0 (127 twists)
=
- Dodecahedron V0:0:1 (322 twists)
- Dodecahedron F0:1:0 V1:0:0 (165 twi=
sts)

--Michael Gottlieb

--Apple-Mail-C635ABA1-2B21-47B4-8671-9434D7969098--

From: <mananself@gmail.com>
Date: 10 Dec 2013 18:07:10 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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From: <qqwref@yahoo.com>
Date: 10 Dec 2013 21:11:54 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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--9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV--

From: Melinda Green <melinda@superliminal.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 22:46:53 -0800
Subject: Re: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

--------------010602050907080205070000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Yes, by date, and yes, it's OK to post your claim without the log file
link, but it's better if you do, especially if it represents a shortest
record. I also encourage you to link to any solutions that you describe
as interesting on the mailing list. And please do let us know of
interesting algorithms and puzzle finds whether you've solved it or not.

On 12/10/2013 9:11 PM, qqwref@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
> I have a wiki account, I just wasn't sure about the format of that
> page. Does it just list all solutions, ordered by date? And is it OK
> if I don't have a link to a replay file when I put a result up?
>

--------------010602050907080205070000
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Yes, by date, and yes, it's OK to post your claim without the log
file link, but it's better if you do, especially if it represents a
shortest record. I also encourage you to link to any solutions that
you describe as interesting on the mailing list. And please do let
us know of interesting algorithms and puzzle finds whether you've
solved it or not.

On 12/10/2013 9:11 PM, qqwref@yahoo.com
wrote:

I have a wiki account, I just wasn't sure about the format of
that page. Does it just list all solutions, ordered by date? And
is it OK if I don't have a link to a replay file when I put a
result up?

--------------010602050907080205070000--

From: <mananself@gmail.com>
Date: 10 Dec 2013 22:59:25 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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--9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV--

From: "Eduard Baumann" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 09:01:26 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_0040_01CEF64F.93023DD0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yes, I have done the wiki modifications for the first 14 Michael solutions =
(without bothering about the replay files).
Best regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: mananself@gmail.com=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 7:59 AM
Subject: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20

So far we are just adding all solutions to that magictile v2 page. Each p=
uzzle has too few solutions to have something like "top 10" in any sense. I=
think we are ordering by date here. For some other pages in that wiki, we =
record the records in terms of the number of moves.

About the replay files, I used to put them on my personal wiki page and l=
ink to them. But the files for 4D puzzles are usually long so that my perso=
nal page became huge. Then, for the MagicTile v2 solutions, I no longer upl=
oad them. I do keep copies on my computer though, unless they are too trivi=
al. I think as long as we can agree on some criterion, we can stick with it=
. Eduard, is not uploading the replay file fine with you?

Eduard, you have got a serious competitor. Mic hael is very good at this =
kind of puzzles :)=20

Nan

---In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, wrote:

I have a wiki account, I just wasn't sure about the format of that page. =
Does it just list all solutions, ordered by date? And is it OK if I don't h=
ave a link to a replay file when I put a result up?

--Michael

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_0040_01CEF64F.93023DD0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=EF=BB=BF

Yes, I have done the wiki modifications fo=
r the=20
first 14 Michael solutions (without bothering about the replay=20
files).

Best regards

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:mananself@gmail.com">mananself@gmail.com

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013=
7:59=20
AM

Subject: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

So far we are just adding all solutions to that magictile v2 page. Eac=
h=20
puzzle has too few solutions to have something like "top 10" in any sense=
. I=20
think we are ordering by date here. For some other pages in that wiki, we=
=20
record the records in terms of the number of moves.

style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: =
arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 13px">Ab=
out=20
the replay files, I used to put them on my personal wiki page and link to=
=20
them. But the files for 4D puzzles are usually long so that my personal p=
age=20
became huge. Then, for the MagicTile v2 solutions, I no longer upload the=
m. I=20
do keep copies on my computer though, unless they are too trivial. I thin=
k as=20
long as we can agree on some criterion, we can stick with it. Eduard, is =
not=20
uploading the replay file fine with you?

Eduard, you have got a serious competitor. Mi=
c hael=20
is very good at this kind of puzzles :)

Nan

---In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com,=20
<qqwref@...> wrote:

I have a wiki account, I just wasn't sure about the format of that pag=
e.=20
Does it just list all solutions, ordered by date? And is it OK if I don't=
have=20
a link to a replay file when I put a result up?

style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: =
arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 13px">--=
Michael

------=_NextPart_000_0040_01CEF64F.93023DD0--

From: <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: 11 Dec 2013 02:52:25 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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--9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV--

From: "Eduard Baumann" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 12:41:04 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CEF66E.41ADAEA0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Wow!
All 47 new MagicTile solutions of Michael are SHORTEST solutions!
Michael Gottlieb =3D German?
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: qqwref@yahoo.com=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013 6:11 AM
Subject: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20

I have a wiki account, I just wasn't sure about the format of that page. =
Does it just list all solutions, ordered by date? And is it OK if I don't h=
ave a link to a replay file when I put a result up?

--Michael

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CEF66E.41ADAEA0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=EF=BB=BF

Wow!

All 47 new MagicTile solutions of Michael =
are=20
SHORTEST solutions!

Michael Gottlieb =3D German?

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
qqwref@yahoo=
.com=20

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2013=
6:11=20
AM

Subject: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: =
arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 13px">--=
Michael

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01CEF66E.41ADAEA0--

From: <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: 12 Dec 2013 07:07:39 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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From: <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: 19 Dec 2013 07:14:50 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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--9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV--

From: Roice Nelson <roice3@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 09:49:07 -0600
Subject: Re: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

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On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Ed wrote:

> Michael: don't stop solving MagicTile!
>

And since Michael may not know, here's a quick reminder that I'll send
anyone who solves 300 puzzles a crystal cube of your choice, either of
MC4Dor
a hyperbolic
honeycomb !

Roice

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=
On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 9:14 AM, Ed wrote:

ote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex=
">

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20

Michael: don't stop solving MagicTile!

iv>

And since Michael may not know, here's a quick remind=
er that I'll send anyone who solves 300 puzzles a crystal cube of your =
choice, either of bums/5348453190730769937">MC4D or a 112844794913554774416/posts/RxUw1Z98Mo1">hyperbolic honeycomb!

Roice

--001a11c2cde4151f5404ede51aec--

From: <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: 24 Dec 2013 15:02:34 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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From: <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: 06 Jan 2014 07:08:37 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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From: <qqwref@yahoo.com>
Date: 13 Jan 2014 18:24:43 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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From: "Eduard Baumann" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 14:23:59 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_0031_01CF1134.445BC430
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Michael,

You are right.

My reason to start newly only with 100 twist scrambles is the length of the=
log-file. The place on wiki where I'm storing these files seems limited.

My strategies for solving MagicTile puzzles don't minimize the number of tw=
ists. I'm looking only for solving the puzzle with haevy use of makros. Nor=
mally I don't profit from a poorly scrambled puzzle. Typically: 100 twist s=
cramble and 6000 twist solution.

I did many puzzles with 1000 and more scrambilng twists.

Happy puzzling

Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: qqwref@yahoo.com=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2014 3:24 AM
Subject: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
I have solved more puzzles and should be up to 198 or so now.

However, I have noticed something weird while trying to go for movecount =
records. To put it simply, some puzzles require a large number of moves to =
be properly scrambled, and previous solvers have not always used enough mov=
es. The best example is very shallow-cut edge turning puzzles on tilings wi=
th many faces. This type of puzzle is quite simple and pretty much just inv=
olves orienting each edge while placing small center pieces (which can be m=
oved around with algorithms of the form PQPQ, with P and Q single moves). T=
he phenomenon is not only limited to edge-turning puzzles; another one is t=
he Klein Quartic {7,3} 24-Color F0:1:0 V1:0:0.

As a test case, here's the Klein Quartic {7,3} 24-Color, E1:0:0, done wit=
h a 100-move scramble:
http://mzrg.com/rubik/magictile/%7B7,3%7D%20E1_0_0%20%28382t%29%20%28500s=
cramble%29.xml
And here is a solve with a 500-move scramble:
http://mzrg.com/rubik/mag ictile/%7B7,3%7D%20E1_0_0%20%28112t%29%20%28100=
scramble%29.xml

In the two solves above I did not deliberately use more moves on the seco=
nd one, or get a lot of extra experience before doing the first one. Actual=
ly, if you look at the scrambles and at my solution, it is clear that the s=
econd scramble is much more random. Why does this happen on these edge-turn=
ing puzzles? Well, in puzzles like this, the small center pieces are on cir=
cular "orbits" that limit the set of places where each piece can be. In thi=
s case the orbits are 8 pieces long (and there are 21 of them) but in other=
puzzles they can be even longer, like in the Infinite Regular Polyhedron {=
3,7} 56-Color E0:1:0, where they are 24 pieces long (with only 7 orbits). E=
ach move only affects two orbits, and all it does is swap two adjacent piec=
es in each orbit. So each orbit must be affected by a large number of moves=
to be really scrambled, and in some puzzles it may take many moves just to=
move one piece as f ar as possible across the puzzle. After only 100 moves=
the majority of pieces are very close to where they are supposed to be.

So what should we do? One option is to look at what puzzles behave this w=
ay and get rid of all results with less than, say, 500 moves (meaning the p=
eople with those solves would have to redo the puzzle). Another option is t=
o allow people going for solutions or records to scramble with as many move=
s as the previous record holder, which is what I have tried to do. What do =
you guys think?

--Michael Gottlieb

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_0031_01CF1134.445BC430
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=EF=BB=BF

Hi Michael,

You are right.

My reason to start newly only with 100 twi=
st=20
scrambles is the length of the log-file. The place on wiki where I'm storin=
g=20
these files seems limited.

My strategies for solving MagicTile puzzle=
s don't=20
minimize the number of twists. I'm looking only for solving the puzzle with=
=20
haevy use of makros. Normally I don't profit from a poorly scrambled puzzle=
.=20
Typically: 100 twist scramble and 6000 twist solution.

I did many puzzles with 1000 and more scra=
mbilng=20
twists.

Happy puzzling

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
qqwref@yahoo=
.com=20

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2014 3:=
24=20
AM

Subject: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

I have solved more puzzles and should be up to 198 or so=20
now.

However, I have noticed something weird while trying to go fo=
r=20
movecount records. To put it simply, some puzzles require a large number =
of=20
moves to be properly scrambled, and previous solvers have not always used=
=20
enough moves. The best example is very shallow-cut edge turning puzzles o=
n=20
tilings with many faces. This type of puzzle is quite simple and pretty m=
uch=20
just involves orienting each edge while placing small center pieces (whic=
h can=20
be moved around with algorithms of the form PQPQ, with P and Q single mov=
es).=20
The phenomenon is not only limited to edge-turning puzzles; another one i=
s the=20
Klein Quartic {7,3} 24-Color F0:1:0 V1:0:0.

As a test case, here's=
the=20
Klein Quartic {7,3} 24-Color, E1:0:0, done with a 100-move=20
scramble:
http://mzrg.com/rubik/magictile/%7B7,3%7D%20E1_0_0%20%28382t=
%29%20%28500scramble%29.xml
And=20
here is a solve with a 500-move scramble:
http://mzrg.com/rubik/mag=20
ictile/%7B7,3%7D%20E1_0_0%20%28112t%29%20%28100scramble%29.xml

In =
the=20
two solves above I did not deliberately use more moves on the second one,=
or=20
get a lot of extra experience before doing the first one. Actually, if yo=
u=20
look at the scrambles and at my solution, it is clear that the second scr=
amble=20
is much more random. Why does this happen on these edge-turning puzzles? =
Well,=20
in puzzles like this, the small center pieces are on circular "orbits" th=
at=20
limit the set of places where each piece can be. In this case the orbits =
are 8=20
pieces long (and there are 21 of them) but in other puzzles they can be e=
ven=20
longer, like in the Infinite Regular Polyhedron {3,7} 56-Color E0:1:0, wh=
ere=20
they are 24 pieces long (with only 7 orbits). Each move only affects two=
=20
orbits, and all it does is swap two adjacent pieces in each orbit. So eac=
h=20
orbit must be affected by a large number of moves to be really scrambled,=
and=20
in some puzzles it may take many moves just to move one piece as f ar as=
=20
possible across the puzzle. After only 100 moves the majority of pieces a=
re=20
very close to where they are supposed to be.

So what should we do?=
One=20
option is to look at what puzzles behave this way and get rid of all resu=
lts=20
with less than, say, 500 moves (meaning the people with those solves woul=
d=20
have to redo the puzzle). Another option is to allow people going for=20
solutions or records to scramble with as many moves as the previous recor=
d=20
holder, which is what I have tried to do. What do you guys=20
think?

--Michael Gottlieb

=

------=_NextPart_000_0031_01CF1134.445BC430--

From: <qqwref@yahoo.com>
Date: 22 Jan 2014 16:43:10 -0800
Subject: Re: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

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--9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV--

From: <qqwref@yahoo.com>
Date: 23 Jan 2014 02:48:16 -0800
Subject: Re: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

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From: <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: 26 Jan 2014 05:05:28 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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--9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV--

From: <qqwref@yahoo.com>
Date: 02 Feb 2014 21:10:35 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

--9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV
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--9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV--

From: <qqwref@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2014 21:14:15 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

--------------060903010601000705090409
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

He's aiming at you Ed! Remember, you wanted the competition. Be careful
what you ask for!
-Melinda

On 2/2/2014 9:10 PM, qqwref@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
> >1. Ed 356
> >2. Michael 259
>
> Make that 308.
>
> --Michael
>
>
>

--------------060903010601000705090409
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

">

He's aiming at you Ed! Remember, you wanted the competition. Be
careful what you ask for!

-Melinda

On 2/2/2014 9:10 PM, -link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:qqwref@yahoo.com">qqwref@yahoo.com
wrote:

>1. Ed =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 356

>2. Michael =C2=A0 =C2=A0259

Make that 308.

--Michael

=20=20=20=20=20=20

--------------060903010601000705090409--

From: "Eduard Baumann" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2014 10:27:37 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_002C_01CF20CA.8F1897F0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

No problem!
I'm glad that Michael is glad.
He will soon be first.
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 6:14 AM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
He's aiming at you Ed! Remember, you wanted the competition. Be careful w=
hat you ask for!
-Melinda

On 2/2/2014 9:10 PM, qqwref@yahoo.com wrote:

>1. Ed 356
>2. Michael 259

Make that 308.

--Michael

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_002C_01CF20CA.8F1897F0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=EF=BB=BF

No problem!

I'm glad that Michael is glad.>

He will soon be first.

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com">Melinda Green

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Monday, February 03, 2014 6:=
14=20
AM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile=
=20
Solving

=20

He's aiming at you Ed! Remember, you wanted the competition. Be carefu=
l=20
what you ask for!
-Melinda

On 2/2/2014 9:10 PM, class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated=20
href=3D"mailto:qqwref@yahoo.com">qqwref@yahoo.com wrote:

>1. Ed 356

>2. Michael 259

Make that=20
308.

--Michael

------=_NextPart_000_002C_01CF20CA.8F1897F0--

From: Roice Nelson <roice3@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2014 13:34:09 -0600
Subject: Re: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

--001a11c335309501f004f1859b79
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Awesome Michael!

As promised, anyone who reaches the 300 mark gets a crystal cube, so time
to think about which one you want :)

MagicCube4D
{3,3,6} Honeycomb

Many other honeycombs
are
possible at this point as well, and it'd be cool to do another first if any
of those strike your fancy. Your choice though.

Please send me a private email with the model you want and your mailing
address, and I'll get it ordered and coming your way!

Cheers,
Roice

On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 11:10 PM, wrote:

>
>
> >1. Ed 356
> >2. Michael 259
>
> Make that 308.
>
> --Michael
>
>

--001a11c335309501f004f1859b79
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Awesome Michael! =A0

As promised, anyon=
e who reaches the 300 mark gets a crystal cube, so time to think about whic=
h one you want :)

gle.com/photos/+RoiceNelson/albums/5348453190730769937" target=3D"_blank">M=
agicCube4D

get=3D"_blank">{3,3,6} Honeycomb

Many=A0f=3D"https://plus.google.com/112844794913554774416/posts/ejoqNvGnD5U" targe=
t=3D"_blank">other honeycombs=A0are possible at this point as well, and=
it'd be cool to do another first if any of those strike your fancy. =
=A0Your choice though.

Please send me a private email with the model you want =
and your mailing address, and I'll get it ordered and coming your way!<=
/div>

Cheers,

Roice

On Sun, Feb 2=
, 2014 at 11:10 PM, <om" target=3D"_blank">qqwref@yahoo.com> wrote:
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc soli=
d;padding-left:1ex">

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20

>1. Ed =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 356

>2. Michael =A0 =A0259<=
br>
Make that 308.

--Michael

--001a11c335309501f004f1859b79--

From: <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: 04 Feb 2014 10:26:45 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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--9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV--

From: <qqwref@yahoo.com>
Date: 09 Feb 2014 20:58:53 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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--9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV--

From: "Eduard Baumann" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 13:39:37 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_001E_01CF2665.8AA73500
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Wow! Almost 400.
Congratulations!
Thanks for the correction in wiki.
I'm second now :-(
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: qqwref@yahoo.com=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 5:58 AM
Subject: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20

I got a lot of puzzles done this weekend, mostly short ones. I have 385 n=
ow (57.3%), more than Ed :)

Also, as I was looking for puzzles to solve I noticed an error in the wik=
i page: the solve of Hyperbolic {6,4} 8-Color E0:1:0, by Ed was actually a =
solve of Hyperbolic {3,8} 8-Color E0:1:0. There wasn't already a solve for =
that {3,8} puzzle, so he doesn't lose any solves. I've fixed this problem i=
n the wiki page.

Oh, and Roice: I'll have to think about the crystal cube :)

--Michael

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_001E_01CF2665.8AA73500
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=EF=BB=BF

Wow! Almost 400.

Congratulations!

Thanks for the correction in wiki.<=
/DIV>

I'm second now :-(

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
qqwref@yahoo=
.com=20

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 5:=
58=20
AM

Subject: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

I got a lot of puzzles done this weekend, mostly short ones. I have 38=
5 now=20
(57.3%), more than Ed :)

style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: =
arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 13px">R>

style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: =
arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 13px">Al=
so,=20
as I was looking for puzzles to solve I noticed an error in the wiki page=
: the=20
solve of Hyperbolic {6,4} 8-Color E0:1:0, by Ed was actually a solve of=20
Hyperbolic {3,8} 8-Color E0:1:0. There wasn't already a solve for that {3=
,8}=20
puzzle, so he doesn't lose any solves. I've fixed this problem in the wik=
i=20
page.

style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: =
arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 13px">R>

style=3D"FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-s=
erif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 13px">Oh,=20
and Roice: I'll have to think about the crystal cube :)

style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: =
arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 13px">R>

style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent; FONT-STYLE: normal; FONT-FAMILY: =
arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); FONT-SIZE: 13px">--=
Michael

------=_NextPart_000_001E_01CF2665.8AA73500--

From: <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: 10 Feb 2014 07:56:18 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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--9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV--

From: Melinda Green <melinda@superliminal.com>
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2014 17:25:37 -0800
Subject: Re: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

Wow, that puzzle may be tiny but it is very trippy and beautiful to
operate! Normal twists look like slice moves, I guess because the view
wraps around on itself.
For reference, it is here under the Puzzles tab:
Elliptical > Projective Plane > Hemi-Octahedron > Vertex Twisting >
V1.5:0:0
check it out!
-Melinda

On 2/10/2014 7:56 AM, ed.baumann@bluewin.ch wrote:
>
> Solving of MT ell proj h-octa v 1.5:0:0 ----- || 10/02/2014 || 14
>
> Remark :
>
>
> Small but very interesting puzzle:
>
>
> You have to realize that there are only belt moves in principle. So
> faces stay at home.
>
> You need maximum 2 moves to get edges at home. Than you have to apply
> a commutator very carefully to get the vertices home (4 twists). I was
> left with four wrong orientations. To get rid of these I had to apply
> the commutator twice. This gives 14 twists.
>
> To get less twists you must repeat the exercice until you are left
> with no orientations after 6 twists (by chance).
>
>
> Interesting
>
> The puzzle has 6 vertices which show exactly all 4!=24 4-color
> permutations neclecting cycling (24/4=6).
>

From: Melinda Green <melinda@superliminal.com>
Date: 16 Feb 2014 10:09:49 -0800
Subject: Re: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

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--9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV--

From: "Eduard Baumann" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 12:41:29 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CF2F02.3E161B70
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Wow!
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: qqwref@yahoo.com=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 7:05 AM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
386 -> 423 :)

For fun I wrote a program to parse the wiki page and figure out some stat=
istics based on it. Some of you may find the following interesting:
- 498 puzzles are solved (of which 144 have only one solver). 174 are uns=
olved.
- Most puzzles solved: Me (423), Eduard (362), Nan (149), Andrey (101), D=
amjan (40), Melinda (17), Raymond (9), Roice (2).
- Most puzzles solved, with no other solvers: Me (72), Eduard (63), Nan (=
9).
- Longest puzzles (by best solution): Icosahedron F0:2:0 (77239), {6,4|3}=
V2:0:0 (51244), Hyp {10,3} 12 V0:0:1 (18001), {6,4|3} E0:1:0 (16878), {3,7=
} 56 E1:0:0 (14010), {3,7} 56 F0:0.33:1 (13050), ...

--Michael

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CF2F02.3E161B70
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=EF=BB=BF

Wow!

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
qqwref@yahoo=
.com=20

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 7:=
05=20
AM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile=
=20
Solving

=20

386 -> 423 :)

For fun I wrote a progra=
m to=20
parse the wiki page and figure out some statistics based on it. Some of y=
ou=20
may find the following interesting:
- 498 puzzles are solved (of which=
144=20
have only one solver). 174 are unsolved.
- Most puzzles solved: Me (42=
3),=20
Eduard (362), Nan (149), Andrey (101), Damjan (40), Melinda (17), Raymond=
(9),=20
Roice (2).
- Most puzzles solved, with no other solvers: Me (72), Edua=
rd=20
(63), Nan (9).
- Longest puzzles (by best solution): Icosahedron F0:2:=
0=20
(77239), {6,4|3} V2:0:0 (51244), Hyp {10,3} 12 V0:0:1 (18001), {6,4|3} E0=
:1:0=20
(16878), {3,7} 56 E1:0:0 (14010), {3,7} 56 F0:0.33:1 (13050),=20
...

--Michael

<=
/HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CF2F02.3E161B70--

From: Roice Nelson <roice3@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2014 14:56:52 -0600
Subject: Re: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

--001a1135e0f489a15b04f2f0dcb5
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I pride myself on leading the pack for puzzles solved*

Joking aside, it's awesome to see this, and thanks for posting! I've
totally dropped the ball on adding puzzles for Andrey's colorings, but it
is clear I need to refocus and finish doing that. I never thought we'd see
this many of the puzzles solved, and imagine the remaining 174 must be
those that are especially difficult (deepcut with many pieces).

Cheers,
Roice

*using golf scoring, i.e. lowest number wins

On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 12:05 AM, wrote:

>
>
> 386 -> 423 :)
>
> For fun I wrote a program to parse the wiki page and figure out some
> statistics based on it. Some of you may find the following interesting:
> - 498 puzzles are solved (of which 144 have only one solver). 174 are
> unsolved.
> - Most puzzles solved: Me (423), Eduard (362), Nan (149), Andrey (101),
> Damjan (40), Melinda (17), Raymond (9), Roice (2).
> - Most puzzles solved, with no other solvers: Me (72), Eduard (63), Nan
> (9).
> - Longest puzzles (by best solution): Icosahedron F0:2:0 (77239), {6,4|3}
> V2:0:0 (51244), Hyp {10,3} 12 V0:0:1 (18001), {6,4|3} E0:1:0 (16878), {3,7}
> 56 E1:0:0 (14010), {3,7} 56 F0:0.33:1 (13050), ...
>
> --Michael
>
>
>
>
>

--001a1135e0f489a15b04f2f0dcb5
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I pride myself on leading the pack for puzzles solved*>

Joking aside, it's awesome to see this, and thanks for =
posting! =A0I've totally dropped the ball on adding puzzles for Andrey&=
#39;s colorings, but it is clear I need to refocus and finish doing that. =
=A0I never thought we'd see this many of the puzzles solved, and imagin=
e the remaining 174 must be those that are especially difficult (deepcut wi=
th many pieces).

Cheers=
,

Roice

*using golf scoring, i.e. lowest number w=
ins

On Fri, Feb 2=
1, 2014 at 12:05 AM, <com" target=3D"_blank">qqwref@yahoo.com> wrote:
e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width=
:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-lef=
t:1ex">

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20

386 -> 423 :)

For fun I wrote a program to parse the wiki p=
age and figure out some statistics based on it. Some of you may find the fo=
llowing interesting:
- 498 puzzles are solved (of which 144 have only on=
e solver). 174 are unsolved.

- Most puzzles solved: Me (423), Eduard (362), Nan (149), Andrey (101), Dam=
jan (40), Melinda (17), Raymond (9), Roice (2).
- Most puzzles solved, w=
ith no other solvers: Me (72), Eduard (63), Nan (9).
- Longest puzzles (=
by best solution): Icosahedron F0:2:0 (77239), {6,4|3} V2:0:0 (51244), Hyp =
{10,3} 12 V0:0:1 (18001), {6,4|3} E0:1:0 (16878), {3,7} 56 E1:0:0 (14010), =
{3,7} 56 F0:0.33:1 (13050), ...

--Michael

=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20

Id=3D1705929147/msgId=3D2956/stime=3D1392962753" width=3D"1" height=3D"1">=
=A0

--001a1135e0f489a15b04f2f0dcb5--

From: <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: 23 Feb 2014 15:54:32 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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From: <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: 01 Mar 2014 06:55:06 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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From: <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: 04 Mar 2014 14:43:20 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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From: Melinda Green <melinda@superliminal.com>
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2014 02:38:43 -0800
Subject: Re: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

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On 3/4/2014 2:43 PM, ed.baumann@bluewin.ch wrote:
>
> I have reached my 400th MT solving.
> MT hyp {1 2,4} 4 v1.5:0:0 is SMALL and nevertheless difficult. It is
> NOT solved yet. Nan: help !

Congratulations, Ed!
That puzzle does look like a little devil. Great find!

--------------040600020302000004060105
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

">

On 3/4/2014 2:43 PM,
in.ch">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch wrote:

=C2=A0

I have reached my 400th MT solving.

MT hyp {1 2,4} 4 v1.5:0:0 is SMALL and nevertheless
difficult. It is NOT solved yet. Nan: help !

Congratulations, Ed!

That puzzle does look like a little devil. Great find!

--------------040600020302000004060105--

From: <qqwref@yahoo.com>
Date: 07 Mar 2014 15:40:57 -0800
Subject: Re: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

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From: <andreyastrelin@yahoo.com>
Date: 08 Mar 2014 07:49:55 -0800
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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From: Roice Nelson <roice3@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 14:25:39 -0600
Subject: Re: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

--001a1134635a809da104f41e2c6a
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Awesome Andrey! Some very cool looking puzzles there, and they are added
to the MagicTile download now.

It looks like the F0:0:0.8 slicing has some drawing issues, due to extreme
concavity of edge-piece stickers. Not sure if I'll ever address that, but
I added an item to my long list just in case.

Cheers,
Roice

On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 9:49 AM, wrote:

>
>
> Yes, {12,4} 4C v1.5:0:0 is very interesting. But when you understand what
> it is really, there is not much problems... but at the end I met some
> parity issue. Because there are six pairs of congruent edge blocks, and two
> of them were swapped...
>
> This puzzle gave me idea of one more pattern (dual to it): {4,12} 12
> colors (with 4 vertices). Here is a file with configurations:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zrg7rdpnw327xys/%7B4%2C12%7D%2012C.xml
>
>
> Andrey
>

--001a1134635a809da104f41e2c6a
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Awesome Andrey! =A0Some very cool looking puzzles there, a=
nd they are added to the MagicTile download now.

It look=
s like the F0:0:0.8 slicing has some drawing issues, due to extreme concavi=
ty of edge-piece stickers. =A0Not sure if I'll ever address that, but I=
added an item to my long list just in case.

Cheers,

Roice

=3D"gmail_extra">

On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at =
9:49 AM, < target=3D"_blank">andreyastrelin@yahoo.com> wrote:

x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20

Yes, {12,4} 4C v1.5:0:0 is very interesting. But when you understand wha=
t it is really, there is not much problems... but at the end I met some par=
ity issue. Because there are six pairs of congruent=A0edge blocks, and two =
of them were swapped...

=A0 This puzzle gave me idea=A0of one more pattern (dual to it): {4,12} =
12 colors (with 4 vertices).=A0Here is a file with configurations:
rel=3D"nofollow" href=3D"https://www.dropbox.com/s/zrg7rdpnw327xys/%7B4%2C=
12%7D%2012C.xml" target=3D"_blank">https://www.dropbox.com/s/zrg7rdpnw327xy=
s/%7B4%2C12%7D%2012C.xml

=A0 Andrey
=

--001a1134635a809da104f41e2c6a--

From: Melinda Green <melinda@superliminal.com>
Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2014 14:15:38 -0800
Subject: Re: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

--------------060608040300030708090408
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Some of the best puzzles have challenged your engine. Maybe trying to
find new puzzles that will break it will uncover some more!

I did the face-twisting {4,12} 12-color F0:0:0.8 and it was sort of
interesting in that I think it really has one vertex, not four. I worked
it by putting the vertex in the center of the view which turned it into
a sort of 1-dimensional puzzle with 12 pizza-like slices in a circle. I
just shuttled pieces from one slice to other around the vertex and
ignored the rest which is really just copies of the vertex I was working
on. My solution was 150 twists though I'm sure you could get that closer
to 20 or so if you really tried.

-Melinda

On 3/8/2014 12:25 PM, Roice Nelson wrote:
>
>
> Awesome Andrey! Some very cool looking puzzles there, and they are
> added to the MagicTile download now.
>
> It looks like the F0:0:0.8 slicing has some drawing issues, due to
> extreme concavity of edge-piece stickers. Not sure if I'll ever
> address that, but I added an item to my long list just in case.
>
> Cheers,
> Roice
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 9:49 AM, > > wrote:
>
>
>
> Yes, {12,4} 4C v1.5:0:0 is very interesting. But when you
> understand what it is really, there is not much problems... but at
> the end I met some parity issue. Because there are six pairs of
> congruent edge blocks, and two of them were swapped...
>
> This puzzle gave me idea of one more pattern (dual to it):
> {4,12} 12 colors (with 4 vertices). Here is a file with
> configurations:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/zrg7rdpnw327xys/%7B4%2C12%7D%2012C.xml
>
>
> Andrey
>
>
>
>

--------------060608040300030708090408
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

http-equiv="Content-Type">

Some of the best puzzles have challenged your engine. Maybe trying
to find new puzzles that will break it will uncover some more!

I did the face-twisting {4,12} 12-color F0:0:0.8 and it was sort of
interesting in that I think it really has one vertex, not four. I
worked it by putting the vertex in the center of the view which
turned it into a sort of 1-dimensional puzzle with 12 pizza-like
slices in a circle. I just shuttled pieces from one slice to other
around the vertex and ignored the rest which is really just copies
of the vertex I was working on. My solution was 150 twists though
I'm sure you could get that closer to 20 or so if you really tried.

-Melinda

On 3/8/2014 12:25 PM, Roice Nelson
wrote:

cite="mid:CAEMuGXpirJjAY-ZgBzh27YcbNUW-b2RkW=s6bmr7k7N2mECahA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">

Awesome Andrey! Some very cool looking puzzles
there, and they are added to the MagicTile download now.

It looks like the F0:0:0.8 slicing has some drawing issues,
due to extreme concavity of edge-piece stickers. Not sure if
I'll ever address that, but I added an item to my long list
just in case.

Cheers,

Roice

On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 9:49 AM, dir="ltr">< href="mailto:andreyastrelin@yahoo.com" target="_blank">andreyastrelin@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Yes, {12,4} 4C v1.5:0:0 is very interesting. But when
you understand what it is really, there is not much
problems... but at the end I met some parity issue.
Because there are six pairs of congruent edge blocks,
and two of them were swapped...

This puzzle gave me idea of one more pattern (dual
to it): {4,12} 12 colors (with 4 vertices). Here is a
file with configurations:

href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/zrg7rdpnw327xys/%7B4%2C12%7D%2012C.xml"
target="_blank">https://www.dropbox.com/s/zrg7rdpnw327xys/%7B4%2C12%7D%2012C.xml

Andrey

--------------060608040300030708090408--

From: <andreyastrelin@yahoo.com>
Date: 09 Mar 2014 12:42:30 -0700
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

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From: <andreyastrelin@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2014 15:57:15 -0500
Subject: RE: MagicTile Solving

--001a1134635a5e4f3804f432bbef
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Thanks Andrey.

The standard download is updated with your new definition.

I pulled them up side-by-side, and the old definition looked valid (like it
still resulted in a well-defined puzzle), but I could see what you are
saying about the identification of vertices being less regular in the
previous definition. There could be an argument to keep both I suppose,
but they feel too similar for that.

Roice

On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 2:42 PM, wrote:

>
>
> Unfortunately there was a bug in my {4,12},12 pattern, Correct one is
> here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zrg7rdpnw327xys/%7B4%2C12%7D%2012C.xml
>
> I think that Face and Edge puzzles had not changed much, but Vertex puzzle
> now looks very different (and much more regular than before).
>
>
> Andrey
>
>
>
>
>
>

--001a1134635a5e4f3804f432bbef
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Thanks Andrey.

The standard down=
load is updated with your new definition.

I pulled them =
up side-by-side, and the old definition looked valid (like it still resulte=
d in a well-defined puzzle), but I could see what you are saying about the =
identification of vertices being less regular in the previous definition. &=
nbsp;There could be an argument to keep both I suppose, but they feel too s=
imilar for that.

Roice

il_extra">

On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 2:42 PM=
, <=3D"_blank">andreyastrelin@yahoo.com> wrote:

x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20

Unfortunately there was a bug in my {4,12},12 pattern, Correct one is he=
re: 7B4%2C12%7D%2012C.xml" target=3D"_blank">https://www.dropbox.com/s/zrg7rdpn=
w327xys/%7B4%2C12%7D%2012C.xml

I think that Face and Edge puzzles had not changed much, but Vertex puzz=
le now looks very different (and much more regular than before).
ass=3D"">

Andrey

--001a1134635a5e4f3804f432bbef--

From: <andreyastrelin@yahoo.com>
Date: 10 Mar 2014 00:35:33 -0700
Subject: Re: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

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From: <andreyastrelin@yahoo.com>
Date: 10 Mar 2014 00:48:28 -0700
Subject: Re: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

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--9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV--

From: Roice Nelson <roice3@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 17:24:13 -0500
Subject: Re: [MC4D] RE: MagicTile Solving

--047d7b343d68341a1204f4481048
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hey Andrey,

The issue turned out to be a restriction of the Microsoft serialization
code I am using, because it is not flexible with the order of xml tags.
Since you had InPlaceReflection after UseMirroredEdgeSet, it was not
loading the InPlaceReflection configuration. Unfortunately, the tags
always need to be in the following order in the definition files (though
you can leave tags out to get default values).

EdgeSet
EndRotation
InPlaceReflection
InitialEdgeSet
UseMirroredEdgeSet

Here is an altered file which I think does what you want:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3359629/magictile/andrey/%7B4%2C4%7D%204C_C.xml

(note: I also had to remove the second identification to get the puzzle to
work as you described).

Cheers,
Roice

On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 2:35 AM, wrote:

>
>
> Roice,
>
> could you check this puzzle:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rnmgxwvbvayq3zc/%7B4%2C4%7D%204C_C.xml ?
>
> I'm trying to unify all its vertices in the way that adjacent vertices
> rotate in opposite directions. But when I write something like
>
>
>
> 0
>
> 0
>
> true
>
> true
>
>
>
> it keeps thinking that there are two different vertices.
>
> Andrey
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--047d7b343d68341a1204f4481048
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hey Andrey,

The issue turned out to be =
a restriction of the Microsoft serialization code I am using, because it is=
not flexible with the order of xml tags. Since you had InPlaceReflec=
tion after UseMirroredEdgeSet, it was not loading the InPlaceReflection con=
figuration. Unfortunately, the tags always need to be in the followin=
g order in the definition files (though you can leave tags out to get defau=
lt values).

EdgeSet

EndRotati=
on

InPlaceReflection

Initia=
lEdgeSet

UseMirroredEdgeSet

v>Here is an altered file which I think does what you want:

magictile/andrey/%7B4%2C4%7D%204C_C.xml">https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/=
u/3359629/magictile/andrey/%7B4%2C4%7D%204C_C.xml

iv>

(note: I also had to remove the second identification to get the puzzl=
e to work as you described).

Cheers,

Roi=
ce

=3D"gmail_quote">
On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 2:35 AM, <ndreyastrelin@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank">andreyastrelin@yahoo.com>=
wrote:

8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20

Roice,
could you check this puzzle: f=3D"https://www.dropbox.com/s/rnmgxwvbvayq3zc/%7B4%2C4%7D%204C_C.xml" targ=
et=3D"_blank">https://www.dropbox.com/s/rnmgxwvbvayq3zc/%7B4%2C4%7D%204C_C.=
xml ?

I'm trying to unify all its vertices in the way tha=
t adjacent vertices rotate in opposite directions. But when I write somethi=
ng like
=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Consolas"> =
< color=3D"#a31515" face=3D"Consolas">as">Identificationolas">e=3D"Consolas">>

=3D"Consolas"> <<=
/font>15" face=3D"Consolas">EdgeSetnt>0000ff" face=3D"Consolas">>ont>0<=
/font>e=3D"Consolas"></>ace=3D"Consolas">EdgeSetfont>f" face=3D"Consolas">><=
/font>

=3D"Consolas">
=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Consolas">&l=
t;r=3D"#a31515" face=3D"Consolas">E=
ndRotationont color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Consolas">solas">>las">0=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Consolas">&l=
t;/or=3D"#a31515" face=3D"Consolas">=
EndRotation<=
font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Consolas">nsolas">>

=3D"Consolas">
=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Consolas">&l=
t;r=3D"#a31515" face=3D"Consolas">U=
seMirroredEdgeSetlas">=3D"Consolas">>=3D"Consolas">true<=
font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Consolas">nsolas"></>Consolas">UseMirroredEdgeSetce=3D"Consolas">000ff" face=3D"Consolas">>

=3D"Consolas">
=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Consolas">&l=
t;r=3D"#a31515" face=3D"Consolas">I=
nPlaceReflectionas">=3D"Consolas">>=3D"Consolas">true<=
font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Consolas">nsolas"></>Consolas">InPlaceReflectione=3D"Consolas">00ff" face=3D"Consolas">>

=3D"Consolas">
=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Consolas">&l=
t;/or=3D"#a31515" face=3D"Consolas">=
Identification">"Consolas">>

it keeps thinking that there are two different vertices.
=3D"">
Andrey

--047d7b343d68341a1204f4481048--

From: <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: 11 Mar 2014 07:51:11 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

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From: <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: 11 Mar 2014 07:51:51 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

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From: <qqwref@yahoo.com>
Date: 16 Mar 2014 13:11:13 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

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--9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV--

From: Melinda Green <melinda@superliminal.com>
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 19:39:20 -0700
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

--------------030602010906010500020100
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Great progress, Michael!

Which {4,12} is confusing?

-Melinda

On 3/16/2014 1:11 PM, qqwref@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
> 514 -> 539
>
> All but one of the new {4,12} puzzles are solved. The remaining one is
> very confusing.

--------------030602010906010500020100
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Great progress, Michael!

Which {4,12} is confusing?

-Melinda

On 3/16/2014 1:11 PM, qqwref@yahoo.com
wrote:

514 -> 539

All but one of the new {4,12} puzzles are solved. The remaining
one is very confusing.

--------------030602010906010500020100--

From: <qqwref@yahoo.com>
Date: 16 Mar 2014 22:07:10 -0700
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

--9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV
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--9nlWnTS9ocNmxdhsK3FKVLWiM6a5jwOaA8HvrLV--

From: <qqwref@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 23:28:45 -0700
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

--------------090605010503050300070400
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Interesting. With the right view (face centered), this puzzle looks=20
similar to the duel {12,4} face-turning version of the "little devil"=20
(vertex centered) except that I think you mean the 12-color puzzle=20
whereas the little devil has 4 colors. Probably just a coincidence.

On 3/16/2014 10:07 PM, qqwref@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
> That would be V1.35:0:0. The edges aren't that bad, but I really have=20
> no clue what's going on with the triangular center pieces.
>
> --Michael
>
>=20

--------------090605010503050300070400
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

">

Interesting. With the right view (face centered), this puzzle looks
similar to the duel {12,4} face-turning version of the "little
devil" (vertex centered) except that I think you mean the 12-color
puzzle whereas the little devil has 4 colors. Probably just a
coincidence.

On 3/16/2014 10:07 PM, xt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:qqwref@yahoo.com">qqwref@yahoo.com
wrote:

That would be V1.35:0:0. The edges aren't that bad, but I really
have no clue what's going on with the triangular center pieces.

--Michael
=20=20=20=20=20=20

--------------090605010503050300070400--

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 05 Jun 2014 05:44:09 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2014 19:49:24 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2015 12:30:03 +0100
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_002C_01D06309.96DD5ED0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_NextPart_001_002D_01D06309.96DD5ED0"

------=_NextPart_001_002D_01D06309.96DD5ED0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Test for appendig a picture
Ed
------=_NextPart_001_002D_01D06309.96DD5ED0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>

Test for appendig a picture

------=_NextPart_001_002D_01D06309.96DD5ED0--

------=_NextPart_000_002C_01D06309.96DD5ED0
Content-Type: application/x-ygp-stripped
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Content-Type: image/png;
name="Rubik15.png"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename="Rubik15.png"

------=_NextPart_000_002C_01D06309.96DD5ED0--

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 26 Mar 2015 05:51:28 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 07:06:53 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

--------------020702020107080109020602
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Congratulations, Ed. That sounds like quite a bear of a puzzle! Perhaps=20
you can wrangle some people into doing a Magic Tile speedsolving contest=20
and perhaps bring more attention back to that gem of a program.

Too bad the solutions page has gotten buggy and unwieldy with so much=20
content. Those were some good times when everyone was trading stories of=20
the fascinating zoo of puzzles available. I bet that some of those=20
unsolved ones are real beauties and beasts still to be discovered.

On 3/26/2015 5:51 AM, ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing] wrote:
>
>
> I have solved now MagicTile hyperbolic {10,3} 6 color vertex turning=20
> 0:0:1 with 15'111 twists.
> It's a lot, I know. Especially in the first stage (11'000) twists can=20
> be saved.
>
> There are several other MagicTile which are not solved yet.
>
> To all: RESTART PLAYING MAGICTILE !
>
> Best regards
> Ed
>
>
>=20

--------------020702020107080109020602
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

">

Congratulations, Ed. That sounds like quite a bear of a puzzle!
Perhaps you can wrangle some people into doing a Magic Tile
speedsolving contest and perhaps bring more attention back to that
gem of a program.

Too bad the solutions page has gotten buggy and unwieldy with so
much content. Those were some good times when everyone was trading
stories of the fascinating zoo of puzzles available. I bet that some
of those unsolved ones are real beauties and beasts still to be
discovered.

On 3/26/2015 5:51 AM,
in.ch">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing] wrote:

I have solved now=C2=A0 63);font-family:'Times New
Roman';font-size:16px;line-height:20px;">MagicTile hyperbolic
{10,3} 6 color vertex turning 0:0:1 with 15'111 twists.

Roman';font-size:16px;line-height:20px;">It's a lot, I know.
Especially in the first stage (11'000) twists can be saved.>

Roman';font-size:16px;line-height:20px;">

Roman';font-size:16px;line-height:20px;">There are several
other MagicTile which are not solved yet.

Roman';font-size:16px;line-height:20px;">

Roman';font-size:16px;line-height:20px;">To all: RESTART
PLAYING MAGICTILE !

w
Roman';font-size:16px;line-height:20px;">

w
Roman';font-size:16px;line-height:20px;"> style=3D"color:rgb(63, 63, 63);font-family:'Times New
Roman';font-size:16px;line-height:20px;">Best regards>

w
Roman';font-size:16px;line-height:20px;"> style=3D"color:rgb(63, 63, 63);font-family:'Times New
Roman';font-size:16px;line-height:20px;">Ed

Roman';font-size:16px;line-height:20px;">
=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20

--------------020702020107080109020602--

From: Roice Nelson <roice3@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 11:35:24 -0500
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

--001a113478ec4831360512339a86
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Congrats from me too Ed, and thank you for the interesting writeup! Also,
thanks so much for being a vocal public supporter of MagicTile :)

A feature idea popped into my head while reading. We should have two
counts for puzzle programs that support macros. One would be the existing
number, the total number of twists. A second would be the number where a
macro execution counts as 1, rather than counting the number of twists in
the macro. This second count would be closer to what the user experiences
for solution length.

About the wiki, one simple thing we should do to make it less unwieldy is
split the solution list to multiple pages (one page for spherical puzzles,
one for Euclidean, one for Hyperbolic, one for Skews). The main solutions
page could have a summary and links to the other pages. I just took a
quick peek at the current page, and it was working except for some errors
in creating Thumbnails. Maybe splitting it out would fix that.

Roice

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 9:06 AM, Melinda Green melinda@superliminal.com
[4D_Cubing] <4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> Congratulations, Ed. That sounds like quite a bear of a puzzle! Perhaps
> you can wrangle some people into doing a Magic Tile speedsolving contest
> and perhaps bring more attention back to that gem of a program.
>
> Too bad the solutions page has gotten buggy and unwieldy with so much
> content. Those were some good times when everyone was trading stories of
> the fascinating zoo of puzzles available. I bet that some of those unsolv=
ed
> ones are real beauties and beasts still to be discovered.
>
> On 3/26/2015 5:51 AM, ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing] wrote:
>
> I have solved now MagicTile hyperbolic {10,3} 6 color vertex turning
> 0:0:1 with 15'111 twists.
> It's a lot, I know. Especially in the first stage (11'000) twists can be
> saved.
>
> There are several other MagicTile which are not solved yet.
>
> To all: RESTART PLAYING MAGICTILE !
>
> Best regards
> Ed
>
>
>
>
>=20
>

--001a113478ec4831360512339a86
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Congrats from me too Ed, and thank you for the interesting=
writeup!=C2=A0 Also, thanks so much for being a vocal public supporter of =
MagicTile :)

A feature idea popped into my head while re=
ading.=C2=A0 We should have two counts for puzzle programs that support mac=
ros.=C2=A0 One would be the existing number, the total number of twists.=C2=
=A0 A second would be the number where a macro execution counts as 1, rathe=
r than counting the number of twists in the macro.=C2=A0 This second count =
would be closer to what the user experiences for solution length.

<=
/div>
About the wiki, one simple thing we should do to make it less unw=
ieldy is split the solution list to multiple pages (one page for spherical =
puzzles, one for Euclidean, one for Hyperbolic, one for Skews).=C2=A0 The m=
ain solutions page could have a summary and links to the other pages.=C2=A0=
I just took a quick peek at the current page, and it was working except fo=
r some errors in creating Thumbnails.=C2=A0 Maybe splitting it out would fi=
x that.

Roice

ail_extra">
On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 9:06 AM, =
Melinda Green melinda@superlimi=
nal.com [4D_Cubing] <ahoogroups.com" target=3D"_blank">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> =
wrote:
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20

=20=20
=20=20=20=20
=20=20

Congratulations, Ed. That sounds like quite a bear of a puzzle!
Perhaps you can wrangle some people into doing a Magic Tile
speedsolving contest and perhaps bring more attention back to that
gem of a program.

Too bad the solutions page has gotten buggy and unwieldy with so
much content. Those were some good times when everyone was trading
stories of the fascinating zoo of puzzles available. I bet that some
of those unsolved ones are real beauties and beasts still to be
discovered.

On 3/26/2015 5:51 AM,
ed.baumann=
@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing] wrote:

=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
I have solved now=C2=A0MagicTile hyperbolic
{10,3} 6 color vertex turning 0:0:1 with 15'111 twists.

It's a lot, I know.
Especially in the first stage (11'000) twists can be saved.span>

There are several
other MagicTile which are not solved yet.

To all: RESTART
PLAYING MAGICTILE !

~~Best regards~~

Ed

~~=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20~~

=20=20

--001a113478ec4831360512339a86--

From: Melinda Green <melinda@superliminal.com>
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 16:36:14 -0700
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

--------------090909020306000006040307
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

With nested macros, the ultimate would be a solution that used a single,=20
monster twist.

Breaking up the wiki page like that would definitely be helpful. I did=20
notice that there was another problem with the index. When I clicked on=20
the link for Ed's puzzle it took me to a different one.

On 3/26/2015 9:35 AM, Roice Nelson roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cubing] wrote:
>
>
> Congrats from me too Ed, and thank you for the interesting writeup!=20=20
> Also, thanks so much for being a vocal public supporter of MagicTile :)
>
> A feature idea popped into my head while reading. We should have two=20
> counts for puzzle programs that support macros. One would be the=20
> existing number, the total number of twists. A second would be the=20
> number where a macro execution counts as 1, rather than counting the=20
> number of twists in the macro. This second count would be closer to=20
> what the user experiences for solution length.
>
> About the wiki, one simple thing we should do to make it less unwieldy=20
> is split the solution list to multiple pages (one page for spherical=20
> puzzles, one for Euclidean, one for Hyperbolic, one for Skews). The=20
> main solutions page could have a summary and links to the other=20
> pages. I just took a quick peek at the current page, and it was=20
> working except for some errors in creating Thumbnails. Maybe=20
> splitting it out would fix that.
>
> Roice
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 9:06 AM, Melinda Green=20
> melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]=20
> <4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com > wrote:
>
>
>
> Congratulations, Ed. That sounds like quite a bear of a puzzle!
> Perhaps you can wrangle some people into doing a Magic Tile
> speedsolving contest and perhaps bring more attention back to that
> gem of a program.
>
> Too bad the solutions page has gotten buggy and unwieldy with so
> much content. Those were some good times when everyone was trading
> stories of the fascinating zoo of puzzles available. I bet that
> some of those unsolved ones are real beauties and beasts still to
> be discovered.
>
> On 3/26/2015 5:51 AM, ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
> [4D_Cubing] wrote:
>> I have solved now MagicTile hyperbolic {10,3} 6 color vertex
>> turning 0:0:1 with 15'111 twists.
>> It's a lot, I know. Especially in the first stage (11'000) twists
>> can be saved.
>>
>> There are several other MagicTile which are not solved yet.
>>
>> To all: RESTART PLAYING MAGICTILE !
>>
>> Best regards
>> Ed
>
>
>
>
>
>
>=20

--------------090909020306000006040307
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

">

With nested macros, the ultimate would be a solution that used a
single, monster twist.

Breaking up the wiki page like that would definitely be helpful. I
did notice that there was another problem with the index. When I
clicked on the link for Ed's puzzle it took me to a different one.

On 3/26/2015 9:35 AM, Roice Nelson
">roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cubing] wrote:

cite=3D"mid:CAEMuGXp8wP61Mz2K_7YrBzVamd+CLbhp1O=3D6UDpHOJ0OL7h4YQ@mail.gmai=
l.com"
type=3D"cite">

Congrats from me too Ed, and thank you for the
interesting writeup!=C2=A0 Also, thanks so much for being a vocal
public supporter of MagicTile :)

A feature idea popped into my head while reading.=C2=A0 We
should have two counts for puzzle programs that support
macros.=C2=A0 One would be the existing number, the total number =
of
twists.=C2=A0 A second would be the number where a macro executio=
n
counts as 1, rather than counting the number of twists in the
macro.=C2=A0 This second count would be closer to what the user
experiences for solution length.

About the wiki, one simple thing we should do to make it
less unwieldy is split the solution list to multiple pages
(one page for spherical puzzles, one for Euclidean, one for
Hyperbolic, one for Skews).=C2=A0 The main solutions page could
have a summary and links to the other pages.=C2=A0 I just took =
a
quick peek at the current page, and it was working except
for some errors in creating Thumbnails.=C2=A0 Maybe splitting i=
t
out would fix that.

Roice

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 9:06 AM,
Melinda Green href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com">melinda@superlimin=
al.com
[4D_Cubing] < href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
target=3D"_blank">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com>>
wrote:

.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

Congratulations, Ed. That sounds like quite a bear of
a puzzle! Perhaps you can wrangle some people into
doing a Magic Tile speedsolving contest and perhaps
bring more attention back to that gem of a program.

Too bad the solutions page has gotten buggy and
unwieldy with so much content. Those were some good
times when everyone was trading stories of the
fascinating zoo of puzzles available. I bet that some
of those unsolved ones are real beauties and beasts
still to be discovered.

On 3/26/2015 5:51 AM, moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
href=3D"mailto:ed.baumann@bluewin.ch"
target=3D"_blank">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
[4D_Cubing] wrote:

I have solved now=C2=A0>MagicTile
hyperbolic {10,3} 6 color vertex turning 0:0:1
with 15'111 twists.

It's a lot, I know. Especially in the
first stage (11'000) twists can be saved.<=
/div>

There are several other MagicTile which
are not solved yet.

To all: RESTART PLAYING MAGICTILE !=

~~Best regards~~

Ed

=20=20=20=20=20=20

--------------090909020306000006040307--

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 17 Apr 2015 04:16:40 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 20 Apr 2015 02:16:26 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 24 Apr 2015 11:35:07 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 01 May 2015 16:39:27 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 16:44:52 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

--------------030006070408080300090404
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Heh, well Ed, it doesn't look like you'll rekindle interest with playful=20
goading. Perhaps if you'd show us some screenshots of your most=20
interesting finds and tell us what's special about them, some will be=20
curious enough to check them out. But when it comes to a numbers race, I=20
think all will agree at this point that you hold the top spot and will=20
likely hold it for a long time!
-Melinda

On 5/1/2015 4:39 PM, ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing] wrote:
>
>
> Solving of MT ell sph tetra e010 v001 ----- || 20/04/2015 || 106
>
> Solving of MT ell sph tetra fev 1-0-0.5 ----- || 27/04/2015 || 116318
>
> Solving of MT ell sph octa f020 ----- || 28/04/2015 || 592
>
> Everybody has already solved his first MagicTile this year?
>
>
>
>
>=20

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">

Heh, well Ed, it doesn't look like you'll rekindle interest with
playful goading. Perhaps if you'd show us some screenshots of your
most interesting finds and tell us what's special about them, some
will be curious enough to check them out. But when it comes to a
numbers race, I think all will agree at this point that you hold the
top spot and will likely hold it for a long time!

-Melinda

On 5/1/2015 4:39 PM,
in.ch">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing] wrote:

Solving of MT ell sph tetra e010 v001 ----- || 20/04/2015 ||
106

Solving of MT ell sph tetra fev 1-0-0.5 ----- || 27/04/2015
|| 116318

Solving of MT ell sph octa f020 ----- || 28/04/2015 || 592

=C2=A0

Everybody has already solved his first MagicTile this year?

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=20=20=20=20=20=20

--------------030006070408080300090404--

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: Wed, 25 May 2016 18:41:43 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

--------------A5D8E0E7A14FFF22292D6473
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Hello Ed,

It's too bad that you've crushed all of your competition so completely=20
but it's great to hear that you're still solving MagicTile puzzles.=20
Super Chop and other deep-cut puzzles are always impressive. Besides,=20
isn't it refreshing to explore a beautiful new landscape while it's=20
largely undiscovered? I still enjoy your reports from the wilderness,=20
much like cityfolk enjoyed reports from John Muir and others.

-Melinda

On 5/25/2016 11:37 AM, ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing] wrote:
>
>
> MagicTile is still wonderful for me. This year too I have solved=20
> 8 MagicTiles sofar.
>
> For two of them this is the _first solve_. Those two have the special=20
> name =E2=80=9CSuper Chop=E2=80=9D. These have very deep cuts and only one=
color pieces.
>
> Here is the list of the solves
>
> 1)elliptical sphere octahedron face turning 020 and 200
>
> 2)elliptical sphere octahedron edge turning 100
>
> 3)elliptical sphere octahedron edge turning 1.33-0-0
>
> 4)elliptical sphere octahedron face turning 020, edge turning 010,=20
> vertex turning 001
>
> 5)elliptical sphere octahedron face/edge/vertex turning 200 =3D _Super=20
> Chop_ !
>
> 6)elliptical sphere cube face/edge/vertex turning 201 =3D _Super Chop_ !
>
> 7)elliptical sphere cube face turning =E2=80=931:0:1, edge and vertex tur=
ning 100
>
> 8)elliptical sphere icosahedron face turning 0.33:0:1
>
> There are still 11 unsolved MagicTiles in the class =E2=80=9Celliptical s=
phere=E2=80=9D!
>
> The corresponding entries in the wiki-db are not yet made.
>
> Best regards
>
> Ed Baumann
>
>=20

--------------A5D8E0E7A14FFF22292D6473
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">

Hello Ed,

It's too bad that you've crushed all of your competition so
completely but it's great to hear that you're still solving
MagicTile puzzles. Super Chop and other deep-cut puzzles are always
impressive. Besides, isn't it refreshing to explore a beautiful new
landscape while it's largely undiscovered? I still enjoy your
reports from the wilderness, much like cityfolk enjoyed reports from
John Muir and others.

-Melinda

On 5/25/2016 11:37 AM,
in.ch">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing] wrote:

MagicTile
is still wonderful for me.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 This yea=
r
too I have solved 8 MagicTiles sofar.

For two of
them this is the first solve. Those two have the
special name =E2=80=9CSuper
Chop=E2=80=9D. These have very deep cuts and only onecolor pieces=
.

Here is the
list of the solves

lang=3D"EN-GB">1)style=3D"font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'=
Times
New Roman';">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
elliptical
sphere octahedron face turning 020 and 200

lang=3D"EN-GB">2)style=3D"font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'=
Times
New Roman';">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
elliptical
sphere octahedron edge turning 100

lang=3D"EN-GB">3)style=3D"font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'=
Times
New Roman';">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
elliptical
sphere octahedron edge turning 1.33-0-0

lang=3D"EN-GB">4)style=3D"font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'=
Times
New Roman';">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
elliptical
sphere octahedron face turning 020, edge turning 010, vertex
turning 001

lang=3D"EN-GB">5)style=3D"font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'=
Times
New Roman';">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
elliptical
sphere octahedron face/edge/vertex turning 200 =3D Super
Chop !

lang=3D"EN-GB">6)style=3D"font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'=
Times
New Roman';">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
elliptical
sphere cube face/edge/vertex turning 201 =3D Super Chop
!

lang=3D"EN-GB">7)style=3D"font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'=
Times
New Roman';">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
elliptical
sphere cube face turning =E2=80=931:0:1, edge and vertex turning =
100

lang=3D"EN-GB">8)style=3D"font-stretch:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'=
Times
New Roman';">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
elliptical
sphere icosahedron face turning 0.33:0:1

=C2=A0

There are
still 11 unsolved MagicTiles in the class =E2=80=9Celliptical sph=
ere=E2=80=9D!

=C2=A0

The
corresponding entries in the wiki-db are not yet made.

=C2=A0

Best
regards

" lang=3D"EN-GB">Ed Baumann
=20=20=20=20=20=20

--------------A5D8E0E7A14FFF22292D6473--

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 11:12:37 +0200
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

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charset="UTF-8"
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---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----

Contrary to the big MagicTiles like "Superchop" the small MagicTile "ell=20
sph cube edge turning 0-4/3-0" has allready a very interesring parity aspec=
t. There are=20
the smallest 1-color elements in this puzzle which I want name=20
"cornerfaces". We have 24 such cornerfaces in 4 separated orbits. In=20
each orbit we have 6 different colors. You can be left with two swaps in=20
two different orbits. Two orbits allways have an intersection point.=20
Shift the two remaining swaps to this intersection. Than you can undo=20
the two swaps by a simple edge turn! But now you have a single corner=20
swap. What can you do now? Who has an answer? Nan?
I simply restarted the puzzle and hoped to not entry in the parity=20
problem. It worked by chance (50% ?).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----

Best regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 12:37 AM
Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20

MagicTile is still wonderful ! One first solve under the following 5.=20

Solving of MT ell sph icosa e01-.67 ----- || 09/06/2016 || 26310 (first s=
olve=E3=80=80!)

Solving of MT ell sph dodeka f001 ----- || 09/06/2016 || 187

Solving of MT ell sph dodeka f0.67-01 ----- || 09/06/2016 || 531

Solving of MT ell sph dodeka f020 ----- || 11/06/2016 || 1137

Solving of MT ell sph cube v200 ----- || 11/06/2016 || 644

Best regards Ed

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_0025_01D1C62D.AB86A110
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=EF=BB=BF

Contrary to the big MagicTiles like "Superchop" the small MagicTile "e=
ll=20

sph cube edge turning 0-4/3-0" has allready a very interesring parity=20
aspect. There are
the smallest 1-color elements in this puz=
zle=20
which I want name
"cornerfaces". We have 24 such cornerfaces in 4 separ=
ated=20
orbits. In
each orbit we have 6 different colors. You can be left with =
two=20
swaps in
two different orbits. Two orbits allways have an intersection=
=20
point.
Shift the two remaining swaps to this intersection. Than you can=
undo=20

the two swaps by a simple edge turn! But now you have a single corner=20

swap. What can you do now? Who has an answer? Nan?
I simply restarte=
d the=20
puzzle and hoped to not entry in the parity
problem. It worked by chanc=
e=20
(50% ?).

Best regards

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing]">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch=20
[4D_Cubing]

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 12:37=
=20
AM

Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

MagicTile is still wond=
erful=20
! One first solve under the following 5.=20

Solving of MT ell sph icosa e01-.67 - color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>---- || 09/06/201=
6 || 26310=20
(first solve=E3=80=80!)

Solving of MT ell sph dodeka f001=
=20
----=
- ||=20
09/06/2016 || 187

Solving of MT ell sph dodeka f0.6=
7-01=20
----=
- ||=20
09/06/2016 || 531

Solving of MT ell sph dodeka f020=
=20
----=
- ||=20
11/06/2016 || 1137

Solving of MT ell sph cube v200=20
----=
- ||=20
11/06/2016 || 644

size=3D2>

Best reg=
ards =20
Ed

------=_NextPart_000_0025_01D1C62D.AB86A110--

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 20 Jun 2016 14:21:17 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 24 Jun 2016 18:15:00 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 30 Jun 2016 03:15:17 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 30 Jun 2016 06:33:08 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 30 Jun 2016 23:04:19 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 02 Jul 2016 06:59:56 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2016 12:38:40 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

--------------C8D25BFC53E5E96FDF3E0763
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Hello Ed,

I know that the Mathologer is very impressed with MagicTile=20
and you may well get your wish.

New members: Please do check out Roice's amazing puzzle. It is truly a=20
thing of beauty.

-Melinda

On 7/2/2016 6:59 AM, ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing] wrote:
>
> Why all these Mathologer (Burkard Polster) new adepts don=E2=80=99t see=20
> MagicTile=E3=80=80?
>
> Mathologer should do a MagicTile introduction=E3=80=80!
>
> Who knows him or his e-mail address=E3=80=80?
>

--------------C8D25BFC53E5E96FDF3E0763
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">

Hello Ed,

I know that the Mathologer is very impressed with href=3D"http://www.gravitation3d.com/magictile/">MagicTile and
you may well get your wish.

New members: Please do check out Roice's amazing puzzle. It is truly
a thing of beauty.

-Melinda

On 7/2/2016 6:59 AM,
in.ch">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing] wrote:

pan
lang=3D"FR">

Why all these Mathologer (Burkard Polster)=C2=A0new adepts don=
=E2=80=99t
see MagicTile=E3=80=80?

Mathologer should do a MagicTile introduction=E3=80=80!

Who knows him or his e-mail address=E3=80=80?

--------------C8D25BFC53E5E96FDF3E0763--

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 06 Jul 2016 08:12:55 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 06 Jul 2016 08:15:17 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 06 Jul 2016 08:22:52 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 08 Jul 2016 14:51:48 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 10 Jul 2016 04:19:12 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 15 Jul 2016 15:42:13 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2016 17:14:57 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

--------------6E5272D47FC841084A5C4EAD
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Welcome Ji=C5=99=C3=AD!

You may be the first solver from Tasmania. What an exotic-sounding place=20
that is! For everyone else, Ji=C5=99=C3=AD is an interesting fellow and you=
can=20
find his G+ profile here=20
.

I had guessed that you had not used the Mathologer's method. It's been a=20
busy time for this group since then with well over 30 new solver=20
s and more arriving all the=20
time. As a result, membership in this group has crossed the 300 mark=20
which is a very nice milestone.

You finished by saying that you didn't want to write too long of a=20
message, so I would like to mention for all the the new members that=20
that's almost impossible because each person can easily stop reading=20
whenever they like and ignore whole threads that do not interest them. I=20
should also point out that everyone can adjust their message delivery=20
preferences so that they get only a daily digest, or even no email at=20
all while still being able to read the messages on the web whenever they=20
feel like it. So if anyone is worried about writing too long of an=20
introduction, or writing a long tome on any subject even tangentially=20
related to higher dimensions or twisty puzzles, please don't be. That's=20
also a good reason for those of you who are shy about speaking in a=20
public forum to perhaps take a chance and join in. You definitely belong=20
here and your contributions are valued, even when nobody replies.

-Melinda

On 7/14/2016 6:52 AM, programagor@gmail.com [4D_Cubing] wrote:
>
>
> Greetings fellow humans, cats, sentient machines, and other life forms=20
> of the internet.
>
>
> I got invited here for solving the 3^4 cube, but since then I also=20
> solved the 5^4. I'm having some difficulties with the 4^4 because of=20
> one parity issue not covered in Alex's post, but I might keep trying=20
> for a little while before giving up and going for the 3^5.
>
>
> Even though my name in the 3^4 Hall of Fame is listed just one place=20
> below the Mathologer, I didn't see his video before I solved it.
>
> I first found MC4D some 10 years ago, when I couldn't solve even a=20
> regular 3^3, and thought that I'll never be able to do that. Then I=20
> got into 3D cubing (I remember my friend showing me a 3^3 and asking=20
> "Can you solve this?", to which I replied "Not yet.". Then I spend a=20
> day memorising F2L/PLL algorithms, after which my answer changed to=20
> "Sure.".), and eventually solved things like 12^3 and a Petaminx=20
> (dodecahedron with 4 layers on each face). Then I revisited the 3^4,=20
> and found that it's not really that non-understandable, and tried to=20
> come up with a solution. I was able to place all 2c pieces except for=20
> the last 6 on one cell. Then I found Roice's solution, and eventually=20
> got all the way to the solved state, which made me quite happy.
>
> I then tried the 4^4. There I was able to build the 2x2x2 blocks of 1c=20
> pieces insides of each cell while making sure the colour scheme is=20
> correct, I also built the 2x2 blocks of 2c pieces at the cell faces,=20
> and I also managed to match all 3c pieces, at which point the puzzle=20
> was reduced to a "simple" 3^4 with possible parity mismatches. I then=20
> tried to place all 2c blocks in their proper position, but ended up=20
> with 2 blocks swapped, one of them in an improper orientation. To my=20
> understanding, this configuration is not possible on a 3^4 because the=20
> commutators acting on 2c pieces are 3-cycles, not 2-cycles; and=20
> because there is no orientation parity for a single 2c piece. I tried=20
> to fiddle with this, until eventually I was able to match all faces=20
> with the cell centers. Placing the 3c blocks was easy. Only when I=20
> tried to place the first 4c piece I realised that during my fiddling=20
> with the face parity, I accidentally swapped middles of two cells,=20
> breaking the colour scheme. I left the 4^4 with frustration (I just=20
> wasted 868 twists), and decided to go for the 5^4 which, although more=20
> tedious, has the middle pieces to guide me as to what orientation all=20
> other pieces are supposed to be, preventing bad parity situations.
>
> I then used the same method as for the 4^4, and after a month of=20
> occasional twisting got to the solved state, which made me even more=20
> happy than the 3^4.
>
> Now I'm deciding whether I should try the 120cell, which to my=20
> understanding is not really more difficult, but very tedious; or=20
> whether I should go a dimension higher to the 3^5.
>
> I might try finding the parity algorithms using a 5^4 with middle=20
> pieces as my references, but if I can't get that working soon, I'll=20
> move on.
>
> But that's enough about my cubing/tesseracting. Here's something about me=
:
>
>
> I'm a human, currently studying last year of Computer Systems=20
> Engineering in Tasmania, Australia. After I'm done with my Bc, I'm=20
> thinking of doing Masters or even PhD with some sort of machine=20
> learning thing.
>
> My hobbies include electronics, low level programming (AVR ASM FTW!),=20
> playing with my Raspberry Pi Zero based quadcopter autopilot, playing=20
> Kerbal Space Program, stargazing and a bit of astrophotography,=20
> reading about physics, making music in LSDJ on my Gameboy, and=20
> explaining science to my buddies while stoned =C3=A0 la Carl Sagan.
>
> I always wanted be a spaceman, exploring distant lands, but due to=20
> some eye conditions I'll probably stay on my home planet and only=20
> watch the distant lands through a telescope, or possibly contribute to=20
> some programs that will fly other spacepeople there.
>
>
> There are some more things that I considered writing, but given that=20
> this is turning into a quite large wall of text, I'll refrain. If you=20
> have any questions, I can elaborate, but until then, be good.
>
>
> Ji=C5=99=C3=AD
>

--------------6E5272D47FC841084A5C4EAD
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

">

Welcome Ji=C5=99=C3=AD!

You may be the first solver from Tasmania. What an exotic-sounding
place that is! For everyone else, Ji=C5=99=C3=AD is an interesting fell=
ow and
you can find his G+ profile href=3D"https://plus.google.com/+Ji%C5%99%C3%ADBedn%C3%A1%C5%99">here=
.

I had guessed that you had not used the Mathologer's method. It's
been a busy time for this group since then with well over href=3D"http://superliminal.com/cube/trend.html">30 new solvers
and more arriving all the time. As a result, membership in this
group has crossed the 300 mark which is a very nice milestone.

You finished by saying that you didn't want to write too long of a
message, so I would like to mention for all the the new members that
that's almost impossible because each person can easily stop reading
whenever they like and ignore whole threads that do not interest
them. I should also point out that everyone can adjust their message
delivery preferences so that they get only a daily digest, or even
no email at all while still being able to read the messages on the
web whenever they feel like it. So if anyone is worried about
writing too long of an introduction, or writing a long tome on any
subject even tangentially related to higher dimensions or twisty
puzzles, please don't be. That's also a good reason for those of you
who are shy about speaking in a public forum to perhaps take a
chance and join in. You definitely belong here and your
contributions are valued, even when nobody replies.

-Melinda

On 7/14/2016 6:52 AM,
l.com">programagor@gmail.com [4D_Cubing] wrote:

Greetings fellow humans, cats, sentient machines, and
other life forms of the internet.

I got invited here for solving the 3^4 cube, but since
then I also solved the 5^4. I'm having some difficulties with
the 4^4 because of one parity issue not covered in Alex's
post, but I might keep trying for a little while before giving
up and going for the 3^5.

Even though my name in the 3^4 Hall of Fame is listed
just one place below the Mathologer, I didn't see his video
before I solved it.

I first found MC4D some 10 years ago, when I couldn't
solve even a regular 3^3, and thought that I'll never be able
to do that. Then I got into 3D cubing (I remember my friend
showing me a 3^3 and asking "Can you solve this?", to which I
replied "Not yet.". Then I spend a day memorising F2L/PLL
algorithms, after which my answer changed to "Sure.".), and
eventually solved things like 12^3 and a Petaminx
(dodecahedron with 4 layers on each face). Then I revisited
the 3^4, and found that it's not really that
non-understandable, and tried to come up with a solution. I
was able to place all 2c pieces except for the last 6 on one
cell. Then I found Roice's solution, and eventually got all
the way to the solved state, which made me quite happy.>

I then tried the 4^4. There I was able to build the 2x2x2
blocks of 1c pieces insides of each cell while making sure the
colour scheme is correct, I also built the 2x2 blocks of 2c
pieces at the cell faces, and I also managed to match all 3c
pieces, at which point the puzzle was reduced to a "simple" 3^4
with possible parity mismatches. I then tried to place all 2c
blocks in their proper position, but ended up with 2 blocks
swapped, one of them in an improper orientation. To my
understanding, this configuration is not possible on a 3^4
because the commutators acting on 2c pieces are 3-cycles, not
2-cycles; and because there is no orientation parity for a
single 2c piece. I tried to fiddle with this, until eventually I
was able to match all faces with the cell centers. Placing the
3c blocks was easy. Only when I tried to place the first 4c
piece I realised that during my fiddling with the face parity, I
accidentally swapped middles of two cells, breaking the colour
scheme. I left the 4^4 with frustration (I just wasted 868
twists), and decided to go for the 5^4 which, although more
tedious, has the middle pieces to guide me as to what
orientation all other pieces are supposed to be, preventing bad
parity situations.

I then used the same method as for the 4^4, and after a month
of occasional twisting got to the solved state, which made me
even more happy than the 3^4.

Now I'm deciding whether I should try the 120cell, which to my
understanding is not really more difficult, but very tedious; or
whether I should go a dimension higher to the 3^5.

I might try finding the parity algorithms using a 5^4 with
middle pieces as my references, but if I can't get that working
soon, I'll move on.

But that's enough about my cubing/tesseracting. Here's
something about me:

I'm a human, currently studying last year of Computer Systems
Engineering in Tasmania, Australia. After I'm done with my Bc,
I'm thinking of doing Masters or even PhD with some sort of
machine learning thing.

My hobbies include electronics, low level programming (AVR ASM
FTW!), playing with my Raspberry Pi Zero based quadcopter
autopilot, playing Kerbal Space Program, stargazing and a bit of
astrophotography, reading about physics, making music in LSDJ on
my Gameboy, and explaining science to my buddies while stoned=C2=A0=
=C3=A0
la Carl Sagan.

I always wanted be a spaceman, exploring distant lands, but due
to some eye conditions I'll probably stay on my home planet and
only watch the distant lands through a telescope, or possibly
contribute to some programs that will fly other spacepeople
there.

There are some more things that I considered writing, but given
that this is turning into a quite large wall of text, I'll
refrain. If you have any questions, I can elaborate, but until
then, be good.

Ji=C5=99=C3=AD

--------------6E5272D47FC841084A5C4EAD--

From: Roice Nelson <roice3@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2016 13:14:52 -0500
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

--001a114fce38e2c37a0537ecf164
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks a bunch Ed! Below are the answers I sent to Burkard. His question
#3 makes me want to attempt a superflip on the KQ and see what happens :)

Cheers,
Roice

> 1. Which puzzles do you consider the easiest to do?
>

This is something the group has discussed, and is interesting in a number
of ways. Some things that make puzzles more difficult are:

- Deeper cuts (bigger slicing circles in MagicTile) cause more
difficulty because each twist affects more material.
- Puzzles with more complex vertex figures tend to have more complicated
pieces and are more difficult, e.g. icosahedral puzzles have a pentagona=
l
vertex figure and are generally more difficult than dodecahedral puzzles=
,
which have a triangle vertex figure. Well, this comment applies to face
turning puzzles anyway. A vertex-turning icosahedral puzzle behaves a l=
ot
like a dodecahedral face turning puzzle.
- Perhaps unintuitively, more colors can be easier because there is more
"space" to move pieces around. You might argue that the Megaminx is eas=
ier
than the Rubik's cube in this sense.
- More complex topology tends to be more difficult, but I think this is
less of an effect.

With that list of considerations, I'd point out the "Klein Quartic Classic"
as one of the easiest puzzles to solve. Even though it is a hyperbolic
puzzle with a genus-3 topology, the cuts are shallow, the vertex figure is
a triangle, and there is plenty of space to move pieces where you want them=
.

2. Which are your favourite ones when it actually comes to actually solving
> them? Have you had much feedback from people highlighting features/puzzle=
s
> that they really like playing with?
>

For me personally, I stick with the simpler ones, so I have to say the
Klein Quartic puzzle is a favorite. But I know some of the group members
find this puzzle boring in it's difficulty. The topology gives a nice
surprise though. If you solve the Rubik's Cube layer-by-layer, you end up
with one unsolved face at the end. If you solve this puzzle
layer-by-layer, you end up with two unsolved faces at the end!

The "{6,3} 7-Color (Szilassi polyhedron) F0.67:0:1" is an easy euclidean
puzzle for all these same reasons. The cuts are very much like on the
Rubik's cube and the number of colors is similar too (enough to give some
space).

A feature request I got very early was macros, and it was interesting
designing them so that they can be "one click". Ed Baumann uses these in
dramatic fashion, and sometimes his macros run into the thousands of
moves! I gather from the users that this is a must have feature that they
are happy with.

I really enjoy playing with the different projections myself, especially in
the case of spherical puzzles. I'd like to add some more options there,
like Mercator, etc. I also like that the program calculates the Euler
characteristic of the surface for you and displays it at the bottom. This
was surprisingly difficult to implement.

3. Which have a non-trivial center (like the superflip for the Rubik=E2=80=
=99s
> cube)?
>

I don't know the answer to this question, and we definitely could do more
group-theoretic analysis on these than we have. We haven't even really
done a proper dig into the Klein Quartic puzzle (calculating number of
permutations, looking at the group, it's center, etc.). But the nice thing
about my answer is that there are a lot of open-ended problems ripe for
study!

Some similar kinds of analysis we've done:

- Possible checkerboard patterns on the quartic puzzle (pictures
and thread
es/1376>
).
- Parity situations, which can often arise in surprising and difficult
ways, like on this torus puzzle (thread
es/2631>).
I like to think of the stickers becoming "entangled particles" as they m=
ove
about the surface.

4. Any superingenious aspects that set certain puzzles apart from others?
>

There are so many interesting things that pop up, all over the map. Here
are a few aspects that come to my mind.

- The topological effects like I mentioned for the quartic (where each
face has two "opposites").
- Non-orientable puzzles. You can tell which are non-orientable because
some identified stickers on the universal cover will rotate in the oppos=
ite
direction.
- Some of the puzzles are not manifolds, but orbifolds, and strange in
the way they connect up (thread
es/1980>
).
- Surprises abound. The {8,3} 6-color puzzle turns out to be identical
to the original Rubik's Cube from a sticker and permutation
standpoint (Andrey Astrelin discovered this). Because of the
identifications, the octagons are squares in disguise.
- I like spherical "super chop" puzzles because all the cuts are along
great circles. This means they are geodesic, and therefore straight lin=
es
when you display them in the gnomonic model. For a trippy time, pull up=
a
super chop puzzle, scramble it, set the gliding to 1 and the model to
gnomonic, then start it auto-solving and spin the view :)

On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 5:14 AM, ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing] <
4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> Some MagicTile topics for Burkard Polster:
>
> 1) You get extremely accustomed to the stereographic projection in
> MagicTile. It becomes even easier than the normal perspective view.
>
> 2) Absolutely crucial is the possibility for defining and using macros.
>
> 3) The help for setup's and their undoing is very comfortable.
>
> 4) There is an enormous variety of puzzles. All are very interesting.
>
> 5) Half solved puzzles are often very beautiful (esthetic).
>
> 6) Often parity aspects form a big challenge.
>
> 7) The exotic Klein- and Mobius-topology can naturally be integrated in
> the framwork of MagicTile.
>
> 8) MagicTile is ENDLESS FUN !
>
> Best regards
> Ed
>
>

--001a114fce38e2c37a0537ecf164
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks a bunch Ed!=C2=A0 Below are the answers I sent to B=
urkard.=C2=A0 His question #3 makes me want to attempt a superflip on the K=
Q and see what happens :)

Cheers,
Roice
v>
=C2=A0<=
/div>
rder-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,2=
04);padding-left:1ex">
1. Which puzzles =
do you consider the easiest to do?

=
This is something the group has discussed, =
and is interesting in a number of ways.=C2=A0 Some things that make puzzles=
more difficult are:
margin-left:15px">Deeper cuts=C2=A0(bigger slicing circles in MagicTile)=C2=
=A0cause more difficulty because each twist affects more material. =C2=A0li>
Puzzles with more complex vertex figures =
tend to have more complicated pieces and are more difficult, e.g. icosahedr=
al puzzles have a pentagonal vertex figure and are generally more difficult=
than dodecahedral puzzles, which have a triangle vertex figure.=C2=A0 Well=
, this comment applies to face turning puzzles anyway.=C2=A0 A vertex-turni=
ng icosahedral puzzle behaves a lot like a dodecahedral face turning puzzle=
.
Perhaps unintuitively, more colors=
can be easier because there is more "space" to move pieces aroun=
d.=C2=A0 You might argue that the Megaminx is easier than the Rubik's c=
ube in this sense.
More complex topology=
tends to be more difficult, but I think this is less of an effect.
l>
With that list of considerations, I=
'd point out the "Klein Quartic Classic" as one of the easies=
t puzzles to solve.=C2=A0 Even though it is a hyperbolic puzzle with a genu=
s-3 topology, the cuts are shallow, the vertex figure is a triangle, and th=
ere is plenty of space to move pieces where you want them.
=3D"im" style=3D"font-size:12.8px">
=C2=A0

ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-wid=
th:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-l=
eft:1ex">
2. Which are your favourite on=
es when it actually comes to actually solving them? Have you had much feedb=
ack from people highlighting features/puzzles that they really like playing=
with?

px">For me personally, I stick with the simpler ones, so I have to say the =
Klein Quartic puzzle is a favorite.=C2=A0 But I know some of the group memb=
ers find this puzzle boring in it's difficulty.=C2=A0 The topology give=
s a nice surprise though.=C2=A0 If you solve the Rubik's Cube layer-by-=
layer, you end up with one unsolved face at the end.=C2=A0 If you solve thi=
s puzzle layer-by-layer, you end up with two unsolved faces at the end!v>

>The "{6,3} 7-Color (Szilassi polyhedron) F0.67:0:1" is an easy e=
uclidean puzzle for all these same reasons.=C2=A0 The cuts are very much li=
ke on the Rubik's cube and the number of colors is similar too (enough =
to give some space).

yle=3D"font-size:12.8px">A feature request I got very early was macros, and=
it was interesting designing them so that they can be "one click"=
;.=C2=A0=C2=A0Ed=C2=A0Baumann uses these in dramati=
c fashion, and sometimes his macros run into the thousands of moves!=C2=A0 =
I gather from the users that this is a must have feature that they are happ=
y with.

ize:12.8px">I really enjoy playing with the different projections myself, e=
specially in the case of spherical puzzles.=C2=A0 I'd like to add some =
more options there, like Mercator, etc.=C2=A0 I also like that the program =
calculates the Euler characteristic of the surface for you and displays it =
at the bottom.=C2=A0 This was surprisingly difficult to implement.
an class=3D"im" style=3D"font-size:12.8px">

lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-le=
ft-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);pad=
ding-left:1ex">
3. Which have a non-triv=
ial center (like the superflip for the Rubik=E2=80=99s cube)?
uote>

I don't know=
the answer to this question, and we definitely could do more group-theoret=
ic analysis on these than we have.=C2=A0 We haven't even really done a =
proper dig into the Klein Quartic puzzle (calculating number of permutation=
s, looking at the group, it's center, etc.).=C2=A0 But the nice thing a=
bout my answer is that there are a lot of open-ended problems ripe for stud=
y! =C2=A0

-size:12.8px">Some similar kinds of analysis we've done:
e=3D"font-size:12.8px">
Possible checkerb=
oard patterns on the quartic puzzle (m/magictile/checkerboards/" target=3D"_blank">pictures=C2=A0and=C2=A0 href=3D"https://beta.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/4D_Cubing/conversations/m=
essages/1376" target=3D"_blank">thread).
ft:15px">Parity situations, which can often arise in surprising and difficu=
lt ways, like on this torus puzzle (m/neo/groups/4D_Cubing/conversations/messages/2631" target=3D"_blank">threa=
d).=C2=A0 I like to think of the stickers becoming "entangled part=
icles" as they move about the surface.

<=
span class=3D"im" style=3D"font-size:12.8px">
te" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-sty=
le:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
"word-wrap:break-word">4. Any superingenious aspects that set certain puzzl=
es apart from others?=C2=A0

yle=3D"font-size:12.8px">There are so many interesting things that pop up, =
all over the map.=C2=A0 Here are a few aspects that come to my mind.
<=
div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">
The topol=
ogical effects like I mentioned for the quartic (where each face has two &q=
uot;opposites").
Non-orientable puz=
zles.=C2=A0 You can tell which are non-orientable because some identified s=
tickers on the universal cover will rotate in the opposite direction. =C2=
=A0
Some of the puzzles are not manifold=
s, but orbifolds, and strange in the way they connect up (//beta.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/4D_Cubing/conversations/messages/1980" t=
arget=3D"_blank">thread).
Surprises =
abound.=C2=A0 The {8,3} 6-color puzzle turns out to be identical to the ori=
ginal Rubik's Cube=C2=A0from a sticker and permutation standpoint=C2=A0=
(Andrey Astrelin discovered this).=C2=A0 Because of the identifications, th=
e octagons are squares in disguise.
I li=
ke spherical "super chop" puzzles because all the cuts are along =
great circles.=C2=A0 This means they are geodesic, and therefore straight l=
ines when you display them in the gnomonic model.=C2=A0 For a trippy time, =
pull up a super chop puzzle, scramble it, set the gliding to 1 and the mode=
l to gnomonic, then start it auto-solving and spin the view :)
iv>

On Sun, Jul 10=
, 2016 at 5:14 AM, ed.baumann@blue=
win.ch [4D_Cubing] <hoogroups.com" target=3D"_blank">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> w=
rote:
x;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,2=
04,204);padding-left:1ex">

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20

Some MagicTile topics for Burkard Polster:

1) You get ex=
tremely accustomed to the stereographic projection in MagicTile. It becomes=
even easier than the normal perspective view.

2) =
Absolutely crucial is the possibility for defining and using macros.
<=
div>
3) The help for setup's and their undoing is very co=
mfortable.

4) There is an enormous variety of puzz=
les. All are very interesting.

5) Half solved puzz=
les are often very beautiful (esthetic).

6) Often =
parity aspects form a big challenge.

7) The exotic=
Klein- and Mobius-topology can naturally be integrated in the framwork of =
MagicTile.

8) MagicTile is ENDLESS FUN !
>
Best regards
Ed

--001a114fce38e2c37a0537ecf164--

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 05 Aug 2016 03:29:41 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 10:09:30 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 04 Sep 2016 08:10:55 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 11 Sep 2016 02:38:11 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2016 10:04:58 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

------=_Part_2138_753839384.1474617898397
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Congratulations Kun! 1000 twists is definitely a nice performance, especial=
ly on the first try.

=C2=A0

It looks like 4D LBL really is the most intuitive way to handle the puzzle.=
The beginning of the solve is nice, but the last layer is always tedious a=
nd/or move-consuming.

=C2=A0

Heise solvers are not common here. A question we've had for some time is wh=
ether it is possible to adapt Heise to 4D. LBL isn't the most move-efficien=
t method in 3D compared to Heise or even Petrus. Maybe there could be signi=
ficant gain in movecount, and why not a better way to handle the last hyper=
face. It's still an open question yet, no one has ever tried as far as I kn=
ow.

=C2=A0

Anyway, great job with your first solve, and happy hypercubing!

=C2=A0

Thomas

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

>

> Hello, my name is Kun. Yesterday I solved a 3^4 Rubik's Cube, and was sug=
gested to introduce myself briefly.

> I am 18 years old, and I'm a student in Peking University, majoring in ph=
ysics. Therefore I live in Beijing now.

> I started playing cube about 6 years ago. I have learnt many ways to solv=
e a cube, and I like "the Heise method" most because I think it's more inte=
resting to solve a cube freely. I also like science fiction and my favorite=
book is the three body problem, written by Cixin Liu.

>=20

> As for the experience with the 3^4 cube. When I started, I decided to imi=
tate the LBL method because I thought it might be quicker. When I met with =
a case that I couldn't solve, I just save the file and think about it the o=
ther day. At last, it took me 4 days to solve it, and about 1000 twists. Th=
rough this experience, I discovered many tricks to solve some cases. The 4D=
cube is really interesting and I think I can do better next time with this=
experience.=C2=A0

>=20

=C2=A0
Posted by: chengkun.c.k.17@gmail.com

------=_Part_2138_753839384.1474617898397
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Congratulations Kun! 1000 twists is definitely a nice performance, espec=
ially on the first try.

=C2=A0

It looks like 4D LBL really is the most intuitive way to handle the puzz=
le. The beginning of the solve is nice, but the last layer is always tediou=
s and/or move-consuming.

=C2=A0

Heise solvers are not common here. A question we've had for some time is=
whether it is possible to adapt Heise to 4D. LBL isn't the most move-effic=
ient method in 3D compared to Heise or even Petrus. Maybe there could be si=
gnificant gain in movecount, and why not a better way to handle the last hy=
perface. It's still an open question yet, no one has ever tried as far as I=
know.

=C2=A0

Anyway, great job with your first solve, and happy hypercubing!

=C2=A0

Thomas

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

000 2px solid;">

>

> Hello, my name is Kun. Yesterday I solved a 3^4 Rubik's Cube, and w=
as suggested to introduce myself briefly.

> I am 18 years old, and I'm a student in Peking University, majoring=
in physics. Therefore I live in Beijing now.

> I started playing cube about 6 years ago. I have learnt many ways t=
o solve a cube, and I like "the Heise method" most because I think it's mor=
e interesting to solve a cube freely. I also like science fiction and my fa=
vorite book is the three body problem, written by Cixin Liu.

>

> As for the experience with the 3^4 cube. When I started, I decided =
to imitate the LBL method because I thought it might be quicker. When I met=
with a case that I couldn't solve, I just save the file and think about it=
the other day. At last, it took me 4 days to solve it, and about 1000 twis=
ts. Through this experience, I discovered many tricks to solve some cases. =
The 4D cube is really interesting and I think I can do better next time wit=
h this experience.=C2=A0

>

=C2=A0

Posted by: chengkun=
.c.k.17@gmail.com

------=_Part_2138_753839384.1474617898397--

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 28 Sep 2016 08:37:02 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 28 Sep 2016 11:34:22 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 28 Sep 2016 11:39:33 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 13:21:26 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

--------------A5FE48F8F639A94E7F8B4FD7
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

The links directly to the PNG files in your second message worked fine
though I agree that Yahoo groups functions strangely.
That's a heck of a big puzzle, by the way.
-Melinda

On 9/28/2016 11:39 AM, ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing] wrote:
>
>
> Somebody knows the method to be applied for attachements in Yahoo ?

--------------A5FE48F8F639A94E7F8B4FD7
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

The links directly to the PNG files in your second message worked
fine though I agree that Yahoo groups functions strangely.

That's a heck of a big puzzle, by the way.

-Melinda

On 9/28/2016 11:39 AM,
ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing] wrote:

Somebody knows the method to be applied for attachements in Yahoo
?

--------------A5FE48F8F639A94E7F8B4FD7--

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 03 Oct 2016 11:29:15 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 04 Oct 2016 02:39:52 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 04 Oct 2016 02:47:41 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2016 09:14:48 -0500
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

--001a114ab0664b6f6d053e5b2631
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Hey all,

Burkard Polster, aka Mathologer, has been working on MagicTile videos and
posted them today! They are in a similar style to the MC4D videos he did,
with one for a general audience and a second to dig in more.

The primary video:
https://youtu.be/DvZnh7-nslo

Supporting video:
https://youtu.be/iOla7WPfCvA

He includes a challenge to solve one of the Klein Bottle puzzles, with a
special hall-of-fame for solvers. A few of you have solved this puzzle
already, but for this challenge we are starting anew and providing just 100
slots.

Burkard has been thinking about this video for some time and he has made
many useful suggestions and requests the past few months. MagicTile is the
better for it. The biggest improvement is that there is now a surface view
for all spherical and euclidean puzzles, including the non-orientable ones
like the Klein bottle and Boy's surface. F6 toggles between the
traditional plane view and the surface view. All surfaces are implemented
as minimal surfaces in S^3, so you can use the 4D controls to move them
around in wacky ways. There are a number of other tweaks and small
improvements, as well as a smattering of new puzzles.

Like the MC4D video, this is a great new resource. My wife saw it and her
response was... "Wow, this is so helpful in understanding what your program
is actually about!" :D

Check out the video, grab the latest MagicTile, and jump on the Mathologer
challenge! Even I am going to go for it.

Cheers,
Roice

--001a114ab0664b6f6d053e5b2631
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hey all,

Burkard Polster, aka Mathologe=
r, has been working on MagicTile videos and posted them today!=C2=A0 They a=
re in a similar style to the MC4D videos he did, with one for a general aud=
ience and a second to dig in more.

The primary vid=
eo:
yle=3D"font-size:12.8px">https://youtu.be/DvZnh7-nslo
>
Supporting video:
fCvA" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"font-size:12.8px">https://youtu.be/iOla7WP=
fCvA

He=C2=A0includes a challenge to solve=
one of the Klein Bottle puzzles, with a special hall-of-fame for solvers.=
=C2=A0 A few of you have solved this puzzle already, but for this challenge=
we are starting anew and providing just 100 slots.

v>Burkard has been thinking about this video for some time and he has made =
many useful suggestions and requests the past few months.=C2=A0 MagicTile i=
s the better for it.=C2=A0 The biggest improvement is that there is now a s=
urface view for all spherical and euclidean puzzles, including the non-orie=
ntable ones like the Klein bottle and Boy's surface.=C2=A0 F6 toggles b=
etween the traditional plane view and the surface view.=C2=A0 All surfaces =
are implemented as minimal surfaces in S^3, so you can use the 4D controls =
to move them around in wacky ways.=C2=A0 There are a number of other tweaks=
and small improvements, as well as a smattering of new puzzles.
=

Like the MC4D video, this is a great new resource.=C2=A0 My =
wife saw=C2=A0it and her response was...=C2=A0px">"Wow, this is so helpful in understanding what your program is act=
ually about!" :D

Check out the video, =
grab the latest MagicTile, and jump on the Mathologer challenge!=C2=A0 Even=
I am going to go for it.

Cheers,
Roice<=
/div>

--001a114ab0664b6f6d053e5b2631--

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 11 Oct 2016 09:04:59 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
Date: 11 Oct 2016 11:51:30 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: qqwref@yahoo.com
Date: 21 Oct 2016 17:22:06 -0700
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: qqwref@yahoo.com
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2016 11:02:26 +0200
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_001E_01D22C53.C97E6FE0
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charset="UTF-8"
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Hi Michael,

Wow!

Congratulations.

Do you think that Mathologer Challenge hall of fame reaches 100 items?

You are very economic.

I'm solving "MT ell isoca fev111 (Big Chop)" actually and I will reach abou=
t a million turns.

Best regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2016 2:22 AM
Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
Coming back with two huge but easy puzzles on {7,3}, and cleaning up a lo=
t of similar {4,4} puzzles (Torus/Klein/Skew).

{4,4} Torus 8-color F0.33:0:1 - 364 turns
{4,4} Torus 8-Color F0:2:0 - 388 turns
{4,4} Torus 9-Color F0:2:0 - 260 turns
{4,4} Torus 16-Color F0:2:0 - 446 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0.33:0:1 - 312 turns
{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0:2:0 - 286 turns

{7,3} 24-Color F1.4:0:0 F1.6:0:0 V1.4:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 9477 turns
{7,3} 24-Color V1.3:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 2110 turns

{4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2:0 - 270 turns
{4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2:0 - 468 turns
{4,4|5} 25-Color F0:2:0 - 1178 turns
{4,4|6} 36-Color F0:2:0 - 1402 turns
{4,4|7} 49-Color F0:2:0 - 2946 turns

-- Michael Gottlieb

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_001E_01D22C53.C97E6FE0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=EF=BB=BF

Hi Michael,

Wow!

Congratulations.

Do you think that Mathologer Challenge hal=
l of=20
fame reaches 100 items?

You are very economic.

I'm solving "MT ell isoca fev111 (Big C=
hop)"=20
actually and I will reach about a million turns.

Best regards

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]">qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=
=20

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2016 2=
:22=20
AM

Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

Coming back with two huge but easy puzzles on {7,3}, and cleaning up a=
lot=20
of similar {4,4} puzzles (Torus/Klein/Skew).

{4,4} Torus 8-color F0.33:0:1 - 364 turns

{4,4} Torus 8-Color F0:2:0 - 388 turns

{4,4} Torus 9-Color F0:2:0 - 260 turns

{4,4} Torus 16-Color F0:2:0 - 446 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0.33:0:1 - 312 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0:2:0 - 286 turns

{7,3} 24-Color F1.4:0:0 F1.6:0:0 V1.4:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 9477 turns>

{7,3} 24-Color V1.3:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 2110 turns

{4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2:0 - 270 turns

{4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2:0 - 468 turns

{4,4|5} 25-Color F0:2:0 - 1178 turns

{4,4|6} 36-Color F0:2:0 - 1402 turns

{4,4|7} 49-Color F0:2:0 - 2946 turns

-- Michael Gottlieb

------=_NextPart_000_001E_01D22C53.C97E6FE0--

From: Roice Nelson <roice3@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2016 11:37:18 -0500
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

--001a11441594bc7ed6053f76c54b
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Super cool, both of you! Ed, will this be the first solve you've done with
>1M moves? I can't recall if there have been others.

An update on the Mathologer video and Klein bottle challenge... Last
night, the video crossed 100,000 views, which is pretty cool. We have 25
slots left in the challenge at the moment, and solutions have slowed quite
a bit. They are currently coming in about one a day, so I'm guessing there
will be at least a few weeks (likely longer) before it is full. I took the
challenge myself (solver #49) and it was great fun - more difficult than I
anticipated, with some surprising configurations. If you haven't tried it,
try it. You'll be glad you did!

http://roice3.org/magictile/mathologer

I'm doing some wiki updates right now. I've already split the solutions
page into 3 separate pages, and am working on getting the puzzle list up to
date with the current set of puzzles.

http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_v2_Solutions

Cheers,
Roice

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:02 AM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
[4D_Cubing] <4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> =EF=BB=BF
>
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> Wow!
>
> Congratulations.
>
> Do you think that Mathologer Challenge hall of fame reaches 100 items?
>
> You are very economic.
>
> I'm solving "*MT ell isoca fev111 (Big Chop)*" actually and I will reach
> about a million turns.
>
> Best regards
> Ed
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]
> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 22, 2016 2:22 AM
> *Subject:* [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving
>
>
>
> Coming back with two huge but easy puzzles on {7,3}, and cleaning up a lo=
t
> of similar {4,4} puzzles (Torus/Klein/Skew).
>
> {4,4} Torus 8-color F0.33:0:1 - 364 turns
> {4,4} Torus 8-Color F0:2:0 - 388 turns
> {4,4} Torus 9-Color F0:2:0 - 260 turns
> {4,4} Torus 16-Color F0:2:0 - 446 turns
>
> {4,4} Klein 9-Color F0.33:0:1 - 312 turns
> {4,4} Klein 9-Color F0:2:0 - 286 turns
>
> {7,3} 24-Color F1.4:0:0 F1.6:0:0 V1.4:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 9477 turns
> {7,3} 24-Color V1.3:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 2110 turns
>
> {4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2:0 - 270 turns
> {4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2:0 - 468 turns
> {4,4|5} 25-Color F0:2:0 - 1178 turns
> {4,4|6} 36-Color F0:2:0 - 1402 turns
> {4,4|7} 49-Color F0:2:0 - 2946 turns
>
> -- Michael Gottlieb
>
>
>
>=20
>

--001a11441594bc7ed6053f76c54b
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Super cool, both of you!=C2=A0 Ed, will=C2=A0this be the f=
irst solve you've done with >1M moves?=C2=A0 I can't recall if t=
here have been others.

An update on the Mathologer video=
and Klein bottle challenge...=C2=A0 Last night, the=C2=A0video crossed 100=
,000 views, which is pretty cool.=C2=A0 We have 25 slots left in the challe=
nge at the moment, and solutions have slowed quite a bit.=C2=A0 They are cu=
rrently coming in about one a day, so I'm guessing there will be at lea=
st a few weeks (likely longer) before it is full.=C2=A0 I took the challeng=
e myself (solver #49) and it was great fun - more difficult than I anticipa=
ted, with some surprising configurations.=C2=A0 If you haven't tried it=
, try it.=C2=A0 You'll be glad you did!

f=3D"http://roice3.org/magictile/mathologer">http://roice3.org/magictile/ma=
thologer

I'm doing some wiki updates right=
now.=C2=A0 I've already split the solutions page into 3 separate pages=
, and am working on getting the puzzle list up to date with the current set=
of puzzles.

om/wiki/MagicTile_v2_Solutions">http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile=
_v2_Solutions

Cheers,
Roice>

ass=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:02 AM, 'Eduard Baumann=
9; ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_C=
ubing] <arget=3D"_blank">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc =
solid;padding-left:1ex">

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
=EF=BB=BF

Hi Michael,

=C2=A0

Wow!

=C2=A0

Congratulations.

=C2=A0

Do you think that Mathologer Challenge=
hall of=20
fame=C2=A0reaches 100 items?

=C2=A0

You are very economic.

=C2=A0

I'm solving "MT ell isoca =
fev111 (Big Chop)"=20
actually and I will reach about a million turns.

=C2=A0

Best regards

Ed

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px">

----- Original Message -----

From:=20
D_Cubing]" target=3D"_blank">qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=20

To: ps.com" href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com" target=3D"_blank">4D_Cubi=
ng@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2016 2:=
22=20
AM

Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile=20
Solving

=C2=A0=20

Coming back with two huge but easy puzzles on {7,3}, and cleaning up a=
lot=20
of similar {4,4} puzzles (Torus/Klein/Skew).

{4,4} Torus 8-color F0.33:0:1 - 364 turns

{4,4} Torus 8-Color F0:2:0 - 388 turns

{4,4} Torus 9-Color F0:2:0 - 260 turns

{4,4} Torus 16-Color F0:2:0 - 446 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0.33:0:1 - 312 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0:2:0 - 286 turns

{7,3} 24-Color F1.4:0:0 F1.6:0:0 V1.4:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 9477 turns>

{7,3} 24-Color V1.3:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 2110 turns

{4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2:0 - 270 turns

{4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2:0 - 468 turns

{4,4|5} 25-Color F0:2:0 - 1178 turns

{4,4|6} 36-Color F0:2:0 - 1402 turns

{4,4|7} 49-Color F0:2:0 - 2946 turns

-- Michael Gottlieb

--001a11441594bc7ed6053f76c54b--

From: "Eduard Baumann" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2016 19:51:33 +0200
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_001C_01D22C9D.B39E7680
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Great.
Thanks.
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Roice Nelson roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2016 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20

Super cool, both of you! Ed, will this be the first solve you've done wi=
th >1M moves? I can't recall if there have been others.

An update on the Mathologer video and Klein bottle challenge... Last nig=
ht, the video crossed 100,000 views, which is pretty cool. We have 25 slot=
s left in the challenge at the moment, and solutions have slowed quite a bi=
t. They are currently coming in about one a day, so I'm guessing there wil=
l be at least a few weeks (likely longer) before it is full. I took the ch=
allenge myself (solver #49) and it was great fun - more difficult than I an=
ticipated, with some surprising configurations. If you haven't tried it, t=
ry it. You'll be glad you did!

http://roice3.org/magictile/mathologer

I'm doing some wiki updates right now. I've already split the solutions =
page into 3 separate pages, and am working on getting the puzzle list up to=
date with the current set of puzzles.

http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_v2_Solutions

Cheers,
Roice

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:02 AM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [=
4D_Cubing] <4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20

Hi Michael,

Wow!

Congratulations.

Do you think that Mathologer Challenge hall of fame reaches 100 items?

You are very economic.

I'm solving "MT ell isoca fev111 (Big Chop)" actually and I will reach =
about a million turns.

Best regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2016 2:22 AM
Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
Coming back with two huge but easy puzzles on {7,3}, and cleaning up =
a lot of similar {4,4} puzzles (Torus/Klein/Skew).=20

{4,4} Torus 8-color F0.33:0:1 - 364 turns
{4,4} Torus 8-Color F0:2:0 - 388 turns
{4,4} Torus 9-Color F0:2:0 - 260 turns
{4,4} Torus 16-Color F0:2:0 - 446 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0.33:0:1 - 312 turns
{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0:2:0 - 286 turns

{7,3} 24-Color F1.4:0:0 F1.6:0:0 V1.4:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 9477 turns
{7,3} 24-Color V1.3:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 2110 turns

{4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2:0 - 270 turns
{4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2:0 - 468 turns
{4,4|5} 25-Color F0:2:0 - 1178 turns
{4,4|6} 36-Color F0:2:0 - 1402 turns
{4,4|7} 49-Color F0:2:0 - 2946 turns

-- Michael Gottlieb

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_001C_01D22C9D.B39E7680
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=EF=BB=BF

Great.

Thanks.

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cubing]">Roice Nelson roice3@gmail.co=
m=20
[4D_Cubing]

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2016 6=
:37=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile=
=20
Solving

=20

Super cool, both of you! Ed, will this be the f=
irst=20
solve you've done with >1M moves? I can't recall if there have b=
een=20
others.

An update on the Mathologer video and Klein bottle challenge... =
;=20
Last night, the video crossed 100,000 views, which is pretty cool.&n=
bsp;=20
We have 25 slots left in the challenge at the moment, and solutions have=
=20
slowed quite a bit. They are currently coming in about one a day, s=
o I'm=20
guessing there will be at least a few weeks (likely longer) before it is=
=20
full. I took the challenge myself (solver #49) and it was great fun=
-=20
more difficult than I anticipated, with some surprising configurations.&n=
bsp;=20
If you haven't tried it, try it. You'll be glad you did!

href=3D"http://roice3.org/magictile/mathologer">http://roice3.org/magicti=
le/mathologer

I'm doing some wiki updates right now. I've already split the=
=20
solutions page into 3 separate pages, and am working on getting the puzzl=
e=20
list up to date with the current set of puzzles.

href=3D"http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_v2_Solutions">http://=
wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_v2_Solutions

Cheers,

Roice

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:02 AM, 'Eduard Baumann=
' href=3D"mailto:ed.baumann@bluewin.ch">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubin=
g]=20
< target=3D_blank>4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

=EF=
=BB=BF=20

Hi Michael,

Wow!

Congratulations.

Do you think that Mathologer Challenge=
hall of=20
fame reaches 100 items?

You are very economic.

I'm solving "MT ell isoca fev111 (B=
ig=20
Chop)" actually and I will reach about a million turns.>

Best regards

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT=
: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

From: =20
title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com href=3D"mailto:qqwref@yahoo.com+[4D=
_Cubing]"=20
target=3D_blank>qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroup=
s.com"=20
target=3D_blank>4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, October 22, 20=
16 2:22=20
AM

Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile=
=20
Solving

Coming back with two huge but easy puzzles on {7,3}, and cleaning =
up a=20
lot of similar {4,4} puzzles (Torus/Klein/Skew).

{4,4} Torus 8-color F0.33:0:1 - 364 turns

{4,4} Torus 8-Color F0:2:0 - 388 turns

{4,4} Torus 9-Color F0:2:0 - 260 turns

{4,4} Torus 16-Color F0:2:0 - 446 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0.33:0:1 - 312 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0:2:0 - 286 turns

{7,3} 24-Color F1.4:0:0 F1.6:0:0 V1.4:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 9477 turns<=
/DIV>

{7,3} 24-Color V1.3:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 2110 turns

{4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2:0 - 270 turns

{4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2:0 - 468 turns

{4,4|5} 25-Color F0:2:0 - 1178 turns

{4,4|6} 36-Color F0:2:0 - 1402 turns

{4,4|7} 49-Color F0:2:0 - 2946 turns

-- Michael Gottlieb

width=3D"1">

------=_NextPart_000_001C_01D22C9D.B39E7680--

From: Melinda Green <melinda@superliminal.com>
Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2016 17:34:42 -0700
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

--------------EF462635997C3C5A50821EAF
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thank you so much for breaking up the MT solutions wiki page! It had=20
gotten /way /out of control.

I bet Ed's 1M+ twist solution will strain a few things. It will be a=20
great test case. Good luck Ed!

Finally, congratulations on 100k+ video views. That happened pretty=20
quickly. Maybe even faster than the 4D video.

Great stuff everyone!
-Melinda

On 10/22/2016 9:37 AM, Roice Nelson roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cubing] wrote:
>
>
> Super cool, both of you! Ed, will this be the first solve you've done=20
> with >1M moves? I can't recall if there have been others.
>
> An update on the Mathologer video and Klein bottle challenge... Last=20
> night, the video crossed 100,000 views, which is pretty cool. We have=20
> 25 slots left in the challenge at the moment, and solutions have=20
> slowed quite a bit. They are currently coming in about one a day, so=20
> I'm guessing there will be at least a few weeks (likely longer) before=20
> it is full. I took the challenge myself (solver #49) and it was great=20
> fun - more difficult than I anticipated, with some surprising=20
> configurations. If you haven't tried it, try it. You'll be glad you did!
>
> http://roice3.org/magictile/mathologer
>
> I'm doing some wiki updates right now. I've already split the=20
> solutions page into 3 separate pages, and am working on getting the=20
> puzzle list up to date with the current set of puzzles.
>
> http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_v2_Solutions
>
> Cheers,
> Roice
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:02 AM, 'Eduard Baumann'=20
> ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing]=20
> <4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com > wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
>
>
> Hi Michael,
> Wow!
> Congratulations.
> Do you think that Mathologer Challenge hall of fame reaches 100 items=
?
> You are very economic.
> I'm solving "_MT ell isoca fev111 (Big Chop)_" actually and I will
> reach about a million turns.
> Best regards
> Ed
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]
>
> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 22, 2016 2:22 AM
> *Subject:* [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving
>
> Coming back with two huge but easy puzzles on {7,3}, and
> cleaning up a lot of similar {4,4} puzzles (Torus/Klein/Skew).
>
>
> {4,4} Torus 8-color F0.33:0:1 - 364 turns
> {4,4} Torus 8-Color F0:2:0 - 388 turns
> {4,4} Torus 9-Color F0:2:0 - 260 turns
> {4,4} Torus 16-Color F0:2:0 - 446 turns
>
> {4,4} Klein 9-Color F0.33:0:1 - 312 turns
> {4,4} Klein 9-Color F0:2:0 - 286 turns
>
> {7,3} 24-Color F1.4:0:0 F1.6:0:0 V1.4:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 9477 turns
> {7,3} 24-Color V1.3:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 2110 turns
>
> {4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2:0 - 270 turns
> {4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2:0 - 468 turns
> {4,4|5} 25-Color F0:2:0 - 1178 turns
> {4,4|6} 36-Color F0:2:0 - 1402 turns
> {4,4|7} 49-Color F0:2:0 - 2946 turns
>
> -- Michael Gottlieb
>
>
>
>
>
>=20

--------------EF462635997C3C5A50821EAF
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

">

Thank you so much for breaking up the MT solutions wiki page! It had
gotten way out of control.

I bet Ed's 1M+ twist solution will strain a few things. It will be a
great test case. Good luck Ed!

Finally, congratulations on 100k+ video views. That happened pretty
quickly. Maybe even faster than the 4D video.

Great stuff everyone!

-Melinda

On 10/22/2016 9:37 AM, Roice Nelson
">roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cubing] wrote:

cite=3D"mid:CAEMuGXoFJHxs=3DwC_TciJ0tS3_7u2vJf5OP34sba8RoLOkpOj9Q@mail.gmai=
l.com"
type=3D"cite">

Super cool, both of you!=C2=A0 Ed, will=C2=A0this be=
the
first solve you've done with >1M moves?=C2=A0 I can't recall if
there have been others.

An update on the Mathologer video and Klein bottle
challenge...=C2=A0 Last night, the=C2=A0video crossed 100,000 vie=
ws,
which is pretty cool.=C2=A0 We have 25 slots left in the challeng=
e
at the moment, and solutions have slowed quite a bit.=C2=A0 They
are currently coming in about one a day, so I'm guessing there
will be at least a few weeks (likely longer) before it is
full.=C2=A0 I took the challenge myself (solver #49) and it was
great fun - more difficult than I anticipated, with some
surprising configurations.=C2=A0 If you haven't tried it, try it.=
=C2=A0
You'll be glad you did!

href=3D"http://roice3.org/magictile/mathologer">http://roice3.o=
rg/magictile/mathologer

I'm doing some wiki updates right now.=C2=A0 I've already spli=
t
the solutions page into 3 separate pages, and am working on
getting the puzzle list up to date with the current set of
puzzles.

href=3D"http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_v2_Solution=
s">http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_v2_Solutions

Cheers,

Roice

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:02 AM,
'Eduard Baumann' href=3D"mailto:ed.baumann@bluewin.ch">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
[4D_Cubing] < href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com" target=3D"_blank">4=
D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:

.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> =EF=BB=BF

Hi Michael,

=C2=A0

Wow!

=C2=A0

Congratulations.<=
/div>

=C2=A0

Do you think that
Mathologer Challenge hall of fame=C2=A0reaches 100 items?=

=C2=A0

You are very economic.font>

=C2=A0

I'm solving "MT ell
isoca fev111 (Big Chop)" actually and I will
reach about a million turns.

=C2=A0

Best regards>

Ed

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px">=
class=3D"">

----- Original Message
-----

From=
:
title=3D"4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
href=3D"mailto:qqwref@yahoo.com+[4D_Cubing]"
target=3D"_blank">qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing] div>

To: moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
title=3D"4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
target=3D"_blank">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com >

Sent: Saturday,
October 22, 2016 2:22 AM

Subject: [MC4D]
Re: MagicTile Solving

=C2=A0

Coming back with two huge but easy puzzles on
{7,3}, and cleaning up a lot of similar {4,4}
puzzles (Torus/Klein/Skew). >

{4,4} Torus 8-color F0.33:0:1 - 364 turns

{4,4} Torus 8-Color F0:2:0 - 388 turns

{4,4} Torus 9-Color F0:2:0 - 260 turns

{4,4} Torus 16-Color F0:2:0 - 446 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0.33:0:1 - 312 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0:2:0 - 286 turns

{7,3} 24-Color F1.4:0:0 F1.6:0:0 V1.4:0:0
V1.6:0:0 - 9477 turns

{7,3} 24-Color V1.3:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 2110 turnsiv>

{4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2:0 - 270 turns

{4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2:0 - 468 turns

{4,4|5} 25-Color F0:2:0 - 1178 turns

{4,4|6} 36-Color F0:2:0 - 1402 turns

{4,4|7} 49-Color F0:2:0 - 2946 turns

-- Michael Gottlieb

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20

--------------EF462635997C3C5A50821EAF--

From: qqwref@yahoo.com
Date: 22 Oct 2016 19:08:00 -0700
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

From: qqwref@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2016 08:41:17 +0200
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_004F_01D22D09.3A64DD10
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Michael,
I like the macro- and setup-posibilities offered in MT.
For my actual "1M+twist" I prepared 3-cycles during a full week (elapsed ti=
me) and reduced some of them from 7700 twists to 2500 twists.
Best regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 4:08 AM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
Ed, congrats on solving all those difficult and long puzzles... you must =
have some very long algorithms, I hope you are not doing many of those move=
s by hand. I don't like using macros so even a few thousand moves take me a=
lot of time.

It's really cool to see so much excitement on the Klein Bottle Rubik's Cu=
be - 75 solvers is huge for MagicTile. If they start solving the other stuf=
f though, it'll be hard to keep track - maybe someone can implement a kind =
of online leaderboard and have the program automatically upload solves to i=
t? My friend Ben Whitmore (a Klein Bottle Rubik's Cube solver) did somethin=
g very similar for his sliding puzzle simulator.

Oh, and since the last version of MagicTile I had, there are 41 new puzzl=
es, and I went and solved 30 of them, mostly with the same strategies as ot=
her puzzles I've done. So that's
Tetrahedron V0:0:0.55 V0:0:1 (Pyraminx) - 13 turns
Icosahedron F 0:1.3:0 - 122 turns
Cube Circle Cube F1:0:0 F0.67:0:1 - 142 turns
Cube F0:0:1 F0.67:0:1 - 210 turns
Cube F1:0:0 F0.5:0:1 F1:0:1 - 262 turns
Dodecahedron Circle Dodec F1:0:0 F0.67:0:1 - 579 turns
Dodecahedron F0:0:1 F0.67:0:1 - 693 turns
Torus {3,6} 14-Color F0:0:1 - 148 turns
Torus {3,6} 14-Color E0:1:0 - 162 turns
Torus {3,6} 14-Color E1:0:0 - 524 turns
Torus {3,6} 14-Color V0:0:1 - 88 turns
Torus {3,6} 14-Color V1.33:0:0 - 150 turns
Torus {3,6} 14-Color F0:1:0 V1:0:0 - 140 turns
Torus {3,6} 14-Color E0:1:0 V0:0:1 - 350 turns
< span style=3D"word-spacing:normal;">Torus {4,4} 4-Color F0:0:1 - 2 turn=
s

Torus {4,4} 4-Color F0.33:0:1 - 8 turns
Torus {4,4} 4-Color F0:2:0 - 6 turns
Torus {4,4} 4-Color E0:1:0 - 16 turns
Torus {4,4} 4-Color V0:0:1 - 8 turns

Torus {4,4} 4-Color V2:0:0 - 10 turns

Torus {4,4} 4-Color F0:1:0 V1:0:0 - 30 turns
Torus {4,4} 4-Color F0.7:0:0 E0.7:0:0 V0.7:0:0 - 57 turns

Torus {4,4} 4-Color F0:1:0 E1 :0:0 V1:0:0 - 242 turns
Klein {4,4} 4-Color F0:0:1 - 60 turns
Klein {4,4} 4-Color E0:1:0 - 26 turns

Klein {4,4} 4-Color V0:0:1 - 28 turns

Klein {4,4} 4-Color F0:1:0 V1:0:0 - 22 turns

Klein {4,4} 4-Color F0.7:0:0 E0.7:0:0 V0.7:0:0 - 74 turns

Klein {4,4} 4-Color F0:1:0 E1:0:0 V1:0:0 - 263 turns
Klein Quartic {7,3} 24-Color Circle KQ F0:0:0.7 F0.67:0:1 - 2507 turns

--Michael

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_004F_01D22D09.3A64DD10
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=EF=BB=BF

Michael,

I like the macro- and setup-posibilities o=
ffered in=20
MT.

For my actual "1M+twist" I prepared 3-cycl=
es during=20
a full week (elapsed time) and reduced some of them from 7700 twists to 250=
0=20
twists.

Best regards

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]">qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=
=20

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 4:0=
8=20
AM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile=
=20
Solving

=20

Ed, congrats on solving all those difficult and long puzzles... you mu=
st=20
have some very long algorithms, I hope you are not doing many of those mo=
ves=20
by hand. I don't like using macros so even a few thousand moves take me a=
lot=20
of time.

It's really cool to see so much excitement on the Klein Bottle Rubik=
's=20
Cube - 75 solvers is huge for MagicTile. If they start solving the other =
stuff=20
though, it'll be hard to keep track - maybe someone can implement a kind =
of=20
online leaderboard and have the program automatically upload solves to it=
? My=20
friend Ben Whitmore (a Klein Bottle Rubik's Cube solver) did something ve=
ry=20
similar for his sliding puzzle simulator.

Oh, and since the last version of MagicTile I had, there are 41 new=
=20
puzzles, and I went and solved 30 of them, mostly with the same strategie=
s as=20
other puzzles I've done. So that's
Tetrahedron V0:0:0.55 V0:0:1 (Pyram=
inx)=20
- 13 turns

Icosahedron F 0:1.3:0 - 122 turns

Cube Circle Cube F1:0:0 F0.67:0:1 - 142 turns

Cube F0:0:1 F0.67:0:1 - 210 turns

Cube F1:0:0 F0.5:0:1 F1:0:1 - 262 turns

Dodecahedron Circle Dodec F1:0:0 F0.67:0:1 - 579 turns

Dodecahedron F0:0:1 F0.67:0:1 - 693 turns

Torus {3,6}=20
14-Color F0:0:1 - 148 turns

Torus {3,6}=20
14-Color E0:1:0 - 162 turns

Torus {3,6}=20
14-Color E1:0:0 - 524 turns

Torus {3,6}=20
14-Color V0:0:1 - 88 turns

Torus {3,6}=20
14-Color V1.33:0:0 - 150 turns

Torus {3,6}=20
14-Color F0:1:0 V1:0:0 - 140 turns

Torus {3,6}=20
14-Color E0:1:0 V0:0:1 - 350 turns

< span style=3D"word-spacing:normal;">Torus {4,4} 4-Color F0:0=
:1 - 2=20
turns

Torus {4,4}=20
4-Color F0.33:0:1 - 8 turns

Torus {4,4} 4-Color =
;F0:2:0=20
- 6 turns

Torus {4,4} 4-Color =
;E0:1:0=20
- 16 turns

Torus {4,4} 4-Color=20
style=3D"WORD-SPACING: normal"> V0:0:1 - 8 turns

Torus {4,4} 4-Color=20
style=3D"WORD-SPACING: normal"> V2:0:0 - 10 turns

Torus {4,4} 4-Color =
;F0:1:0=20
V1:0:0 - 30 turns

Torus {4,4} 4-Color=20
style=3D"WORD-SPACING: normal"> F0.7:0:0 E0.7:0:0 V0.7:0:0 - 57=20
turns

Torus {4,4} 4-Color =
;F0:1:0=20
E1 :0:0 V1:0:0 - 242 turns

Klein {4,4} 4-Color=
style=3D"WORD-SPACING: normal"> F0:0:1 - 60 turns

Klein style=3D"WORD-SPACING: normal"> {4,4} 4-Color style=3D"WORD-SPACING: normal"> style=3D"WORD-SPACING: normal">E0:1:0 - 26 turns

Klein style=3D"WORD-SPACING: normal"> {4,4} 4-Color style=3D"WORD-SPACING: normal"> style=3D"WORD-SPACING: normal">V0:0:1 - 28 turns

Klein style=3D"WORD-SPACING: normal"> {4,4} 4-Color style=3D"WORD-SPACING: normal"> style=3D"WORD-SPACING: normal">F0:1:0 V1:0:0 - 22 turns

Klein style=3D"WORD-SPACING: normal"> {4,4}=20
4-Color F0.=
7:0:0=20
E0.7:0:0 V0.7:0:0 - 74 turns

Klein style=3D"WORD-SPACING: normal"> {4,4} 4-Color style=3D"WORD-SPACING: normal"> F0:1:0 E1:0:0 V1:0:0 - 263=20
turns

Klein Quartic =20
style=3D"WORD-SPACING: normal">{7,3} 24-Color Circle KQ =20
style=3D"WORD-SPACING: normal">F0:0:0.7 F0.67:0:1 - 2507 turnsV>

--Michael

------=_NextPart_000_004F_01D22D09.3A64DD10--

From: "Eduard Baumann" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 16:46:28 +0200
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01D22EDF.56A20890
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

First 79 entries in the Mathologer MT Challenge Hall of Fame:

Only 2 women !? (Marie and Marie-Chantal)

Melinda please, change this weard statistics ;-)
[At least three M's instead of two Marie's]

Best regars
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 2:34 AM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
Thank you so much for breaking up the MT solutions wiki page! It had gott=
en way out of control.

I bet Ed's 1M+ twist solution will strain a few things. It will be a grea=
t test case. Good luck Ed!

Finally, congratulations on 100k+ video views. That happened pretty quick=
ly. Maybe even faster than the 4D video.

Great stuff everyone!
-Melinda

On 10/22/2016 9:37 AM, Roice Nelson roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cubing] wrote:

Super cool, both of you! Ed, will this be the first solve you've done =
with >1M moves? I can't recall if there have been others.=20

An update on the Mathologer video and Klein bottle challenge... Last n=
ight, the video crossed 100,000 views, which is pretty cool. We have 25 sl=
ots left in the challenge at the moment, and solutions have slowed quite a =
bit. They are currently coming in about one a day, so I'm guessing there w=
ill be at least a few weeks (likely longer) before it is full. I took the =
challenge myself (solver #49) and it was great fun - more difficult than I =
anticipated, with some surprising configurations. If you haven't tried it,=
try it. You'll be glad you did!

http://roice3.org/magictile/mathologer

I'm doing some wiki updates right now. I've already split the solution=
s page into 3 separate pages, and am working on getting the puzzle list up =
to date with the current set of puzzles.

http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_v2_Solutions

Cheers,
Roice

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:02 AM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bluewin.ch=
[4D_Cubing] <4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20

Hi Michael,

Wow!

Congratulations.

Do you think that Mathologer Challenge hall of fame reaches 100 items=
?

You are very economic.

I'm solving "MT ell isoca fev111 (Big Chop)" actually and I will reac=
h about a million turns.

Best regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2016 2:22 AM
Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
Coming back with two huge but easy puzzles on {7,3}, and cleaning u=
p a lot of similar {4,4} puzzles (Torus/Klein/Skew).=20

{4,4} Torus 8-color F0.33:0:1 - 364 turns
{4,4} Torus 8-Color F0:2:0 - 388 turns
{4,4} Torus 9-Color F0:2:0 - 260 turns
{4,4} Torus 16-Color F0:2:0 - 446 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0.33:0:1 - 312 turns
{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0:2:0 - 286 turns

{7,3} 24-Color F1.4:0:0 F1.6:0:0 V1.4:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 9477 turns
{7,3} 24-Color V1.3:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 2110 turns

{4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2:0 - 270 turns
{4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2:0 - 468 turns
{4,4|5} 25-Color F0:2:0 - 1178 turns
{4,4|6} 36-Color F0:2:0 - 1402 turns
{4,4|7} 49-Color F0:2:0 - 2946 turns

-- Michael Gottlieb

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_000A_01D22EDF.56A20890
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=EF=BB=BF

First 79 entries in the Mathologer MT Chal=
lenge=20
Hall of Fame:

Only 2 women !? (Marie and=20
Marie-Chantal)

Melinda please, change this weard statisti=
cs =20
;-)

[At least three M's instead of two=20
Marie's]

Best regars

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]">Melinda Green=20
melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 2:3=
4=20
AM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile=
=20
Solving

=20

Thank you so much for breaking up the MT solutions wiki page! It had g=
otten=20
way out of control.

I bet Ed's 1M+ twist solution will stra=
in a=20
few things. It will be a great test case. Good luck Ed!

Finally,=20
congratulations on 100k+ video views. That happened pretty quickly. Maybe=
even=20
faster than the 4D video.

Great stuff everyone!
-Melinda
>

On 10/22/2016 9:37 AM, Roice Nelson class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated=20
href=3D"mailto:roice3@gmail.com">roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cubing]=20
wrote:

cite=3Dmid:CAEMuGXoFJHxs=3DwC_TciJ0tS3_7u2vJf5OP34sba8RoLOkpOj9Q@mail.gma=
il.com=20
type=3D"cite">

Super cool, both of you! Ed, will this be the=
first=20
solve you've done with >1M moves? I can't recall if there have=
been=20
others.=20

An update on the Mathologer video and Klein bottle challenge...&nb=
sp;=20
Last night, the video crossed 100,000 views, which is pretty=20
cool. We have 25 slots left in the challenge at the moment, and=20
solutions have slowed quite a bit. They are currently coming in a=
bout=20
one a day, so I'm guessing there will be at least a few weeks (likely=20
longer) before it is full. I took the challenge myself (solver #4=
9)=20
and it was great fun - more difficult than I anticipated, with some=20
surprising configurations. If you haven't tried it, try it. =
=20
You'll be glad you did!

moz=3D"true">http://roice3.org/magictile/mathologer

I'm doing some wiki updates right now. I've already split th=
e=20
solutions page into 3 separate pages, and am working on getting the puz=
zle=20
list up to date with the current set of puzzles.

s"=20
moz=3D"true">http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_v2_SolutionsA>

Cheers,

Roice

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:02 AM, 'Eduard Bauma=
nn' href=3D"mailto:ed.baumann@bluewin.ch" moz=3D"true">ed.baumann@bluewin.c=
h=20
[4D_Cubing] <.com"=20
target=3D_blank moz=3D"true">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> w=
rote:

=
=EF=BB=BF=20

Hi Michael,

Wow!

Congratulations.

Do you think that Mathologer Challen=
ge hall=20
of fame reaches 100 items?

You are very economic.

I'm solving "MT ell isoca fev111 =
(Big=20
Chop)" actually and I will reach about a million turns.IV>

Best regards

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIG=
HT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

From: <=
A=20
title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:qqwref@yahoo.com+[4D_Cubing]" target=3D_blank=20
moz=3D"true">qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogro=
ups.com"=20
target=3D_blank moz=3D"true">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, October 22, =
2016=20
2:22 AM

Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTil=
e=20
Solving

Coming back with two huge but easy puzzles on {7,3}, and cleanin=
g up=20
a lot of similar {4,4} puzzles (Torus/Klein/Skew). >

{4,4} Torus 8-color F0.33:0:1 - 364 turns

{4,4} Torus 8-Color F0:2:0 - 388 turns

{4,4} Torus 9-Color F0:2:0 - 260 turns

{4,4} Torus 16-Color F0:2:0 - 446 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0.33:0:1 - 312 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0:2:0 - 286 turns

{7,3} 24-Color F1.4:0:0 F1.6:0:0 V1.4:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 9477=20
turns

{7,3} 24-Color V1.3:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 2110 turns
>

{4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2:0 - 270 turns

{4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2:0 - 468 turns

{4,4|5} 25-Color F0:2:0 - 1178 turns

{4,4|6} 36-Color F0:2:0 - 1402 turns

{4,4|7} 49-Color F0:2:0 - 2946 turns

-- Michael=20
Gottlieb

<=
/DIV>

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01D22EDF.56A20890--

From: Melinda Green <melinda@superliminal.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 13:32:59 -0700
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

--------------7A9C4895610CB35E1ABF5552
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks for the encouragement, Ed. I started to do it but most of my=20
macros didn't work and I really don't want to do it without them. Roice=20
understands the issue involving non-orientable puzzles but the fixes=20
(keeping track of orientation) appear more difficult than he's ready to=20
take on at the moment.

Best,
-Melinda

On 10/25/2016 7:46 AM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bluewin.ch=20
[4D_Cubing] wrote:
> =EF=BB=BF
>
> First 79 entries in the Mathologer MT Challenge Hall of Fame:
> Only 2 women !? (Marie and Marie-Chantal)
> Melinda please, change this weard statistics ;-)
> [At least three M's instead of two Marie's]
> Best regars
> Ed
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Melinda Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]
>
> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 23, 2016 2:34 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving
>
> Thank you so much for breaking up the MT solutions wiki page! It
> had gotten /way /out of control.
>
> I bet Ed's 1M+ twist solution will strain a few things. It will be
> a great test case. Good luck Ed!
>
> Finally, congratulations on 100k+ video views. That happened
> pretty quickly. Maybe even faster than the 4D video.
>
> Great stuff everyone!
> -Melinda
>
> On 10/22/2016 9:37 AM, Roice Nelson roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cubing]
> wrote:
>> Super cool, both of you! Ed, will this be the first solve you've
>> done with >1M moves? I can't recall if there have been others.
>>
>> An update on the Mathologer video and Klein bottle challenge...=20
>> Last night, the video crossed 100,000 views, which is pretty
>> cool. We have 25 slots left in the challenge at the moment, and
>> solutions have slowed quite a bit. They are currently coming in
>> about one a day, so I'm guessing there will be at least a few
>> weeks (likely longer) before it is full. I took the challenge
>> myself (solver #49) and it was great fun - more difficult than I
>> anticipated, with some surprising configurations. If you haven't
>> tried it, try it. You'll be glad you did!
>>
>> http://roice3.org/magictile/mathologer
>>
>> I'm doing some wiki updates right now. I've already split the
>> solutions page into 3 separate pages, and am working on getting
>> the puzzle list up to date with the current set of puzzles.
>>
>> http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_v2_Solutions
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Roice
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:02 AM, 'Eduard Baumann'
>> ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing]
>> <4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com > wrote=
:
>>
>> =EF=BB=BF
>>
>>
>> Hi Michael,
>> Wow!
>> Congratulations.
>> Do you think that Mathologer Challenge hall of fame reaches
>> 100 items?
>> You are very economic.
>> I'm solving "_MT ell isoca fev111 (Big Chop)_" actually and I
>> will reach about a million turns.
>> Best regards
>> Ed
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]
>>
>> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
>>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 22, 2016 2:22 AM
>> *Subject:* [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving
>>
>> Coming back with two huge but easy puzzles on {7,3}, and
>> cleaning up a lot of similar {4,4} puzzles
>> (Torus/Klein/Skew).
>>
>>
>> {4,4} Torus 8-color F0.33:0:1 - 364 turns
>> {4,4} Torus 8-Color F0:2:0 - 388 turns
>> {4,4} Torus 9-Color F0:2:0 - 260 turns
>> {4,4} Torus 16-Color F0:2:0 - 446 turns
>>
>> {4,4} Klein 9-Color F0.33:0:1 - 312 turns
>> {4,4} Klein 9-Color F0:2:0 - 286 turns
>>
>> {7,3} 24-Color F1.4:0:0 F1.6:0:0 V1.4:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 9477
>> turns
>> {7,3} 24-Color V1.3:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 2110 turns
>>
>> {4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2:0 - 270 turns
>> {4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2:0 - 468 turns
>> {4,4|5} 25-Color F0:2:0 - 1178 turns
>> {4,4|6} 36-Color F0:2:0 - 1402 turns
>> {4,4|7} 49-Color F0:2:0 - 2946 turns
>>
>> -- Michael Gottlieb
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>=20=20=20=20=20
>

--------------7A9C4895610CB35E1ABF5552
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

">

Thanks for the encouragement, Ed. I started to do it but most of my
macros didn't work and I really don't want to do it without them.
Roice understands the issue involving non-orientable puzzles but the
fixes (keeping track of orientation) appear more difficult than he's
ready to take on at the moment.

Best,

-Melinda

On 10/25/2016 7:46 AM, 'Eduard Baumann'
in.ch">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing] wrote:

type=3D"cite">
=EF=BB=BF
pe">

=20=20=20=20=20=20

First 79 entries in the
Mathologer MT Challenge Hall of Fame:

=C2=A0

Only 2 women !?=C2=A0 (Marie and
Marie-Chantal)

=C2=A0

Melinda please, change this wear=
d
statistics=C2=A0 ;-)

[At least three M's instead of
two Marie's]

=C2=A0

Best regars

Ed

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

black">From: title=3D"4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com%20[4D_Cubing]">Melinda
Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]

To: moz-do-not-send=3D"true" title=3D"4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups=
.com

Sent: Sunday, October 23,
2016 2:34 AM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re:
MagicTile Solving

=C2=A0

Thank you so much for breaking up the MT solutions wiki
page! It had gotten way out of control.

I bet Ed's 1M+ twist solution will strain a few things. It
will be a great test case. Good luck Ed!

Finally, congratulations on 100k+ video views. That happened
pretty quickly. Maybe even faster than the 4D video.

Great stuff everyone!

-Melinda

On 10/22/2016 9:37 AM, Roice
Nelson class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href=3D"mailto:roice3@gmail.com">roice3@gmail.com
[4D_Cubing] wrote:

cite=3D"mid:CAEMuGXoFJHxs=3DwC_TciJ0tS3_7u2vJf5OP34sba8RoLOkpOj9Q@mail.gmai=
l.com"
type=3D"cite">

Super cool, both of you!=C2=A0 Ed, will=C2=A0t=
his be
the first solve you've done with >1M moves?=C2=A0 I can't
recall if there have been others.

An update on the Mathologer video and Klein bottle
challenge...=C2=A0 Last night, the=C2=A0video crossed 100,0=
00
views, which is pretty cool.=C2=A0 We have 25 slots left in
the challenge at the moment, and solutions have slowed
quite a bit.=C2=A0 They are currently coming in about one a
day, so I'm guessing there will be at least a few weeks
(likely longer) before it is full.=C2=A0 I took the challen=
ge
myself (solver #49) and it was great fun - more
difficult than I anticipated, with some surprising
configurations.=C2=A0 If you haven't tried it, try it.=C2=
=A0
You'll be glad you did!

href=3D"http://roice3.org/magictile/mathologer"
moz=3D"true">http://roice3.org/magictile/mathologerdiv>

I'm doing some wiki updates right now.=C2=A0 I've alread=
y
split the solutions page into 3 separate pages, and am
working on getting the puzzle list up to date with the
current set of puzzles.

href=3D"http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_v2_So=
lutions"
moz=3D"true">http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_=
v2_Solutions

Cheers,

Roice

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:02 AM,
'Eduard Baumann' href=3D"mailto:ed.baumann@bluewin.ch" moz=3D"true">ed.bau=
mann@bluewin.ch
[4D_Cubing] < moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
target=3D"_blank" moz=3D"true">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.co=
m>
wrote:

class=3D"gmail_quote">=EF=BB=BF

>

Hi Michael,=

=C2=A0

Wow!

=C2=A0

Congratulations.font>

=C2=A0

Do you think that
Mathologer Challenge hall of fame=C2=A0reaches 100
items?

=C2=A0

You are very
economic.

=C2=A0

I'm solving "MT
ell isoca fev111 (Big Chop)" actually and
I will reach about a million turns.

=C2=A0

Best regards>

Ed

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original
Message -----

#e4e4e4">From: moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
title=3D"4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
href=3D"mailto:qqwref@yahoo.com+[4D_Cubing]"
target=3D"_blank" moz=3D"true">qqwref@yahoo.com
[4D_Cubing]

To: moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
title=3D"4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
target=3D"_blank" moz=3D"true">4D_Cubing@yahoog=
roups.com

Sent:
Saturday, October 22, 2016 2:22 AM

Subject:
[MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=C2=A0

Coming back with two huge but easy puzzles on
{7,3}, and cleaning up a lot of similar {4,4}
puzzles (Torus/Klein/Skew).

{4,4} Torus 8-color F0.33:0:1 - 364 turnsiv>

{4,4} Torus 8-Color F0:2:0 - 388 turns

{4,4} Torus 9-Color F0:2:0 - 260 turns

{4,4} Torus 16-Color F0:2:0 - 446 turns>

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0.33:0:1 - 312 turnsiv>

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0:2:0 - 286 turns

{7,3} 24-Color F1.4:0:0 F1.6:0:0
V1.4:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 9477 turns

{7,3} 24-Color V1.3:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 2110
turns

{4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2:0 - 270 turns

{4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2:0 - 468 turns

{4,4|5} 25-Color F0:2:0 - 1178 turns

{4,4|6} 36-Color F0:2:0 - 1402 turns

{4,4|7} 49-Color F0:2:0 - 2946 turns

-- Michael Gottlieb

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20

--------------7A9C4895610CB35E1ABF5552--

From: "Eduard Baumann" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 22:47:57 +0200
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01D22F11.D603ABC0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ah.
I do it always with macros. Eventually they work not at every place. In thi=
s case you must use the perhaps 50% working places.
Best regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:32 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
Thanks for the encouragement, Ed. I started to do it but most of my macro=
s didn't work and I really don't want to do it without them. Roice understa=
nds the issue involving non-orientable puzzles but the fixes (keeping track=
of orientation) appear more difficult than he's ready to take on at the mo=
ment.

Best,
-Melinda

On 10/25/2016 7:46 AM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing]=
wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20
First 79 entries in the Mathologer MT Challenge Hall of Fame:

Only 2 women !? (Marie and Marie-Chantal)

Melinda please, change this weard statistics ;-)
[At least three M's instead of two Marie's]

Best regars
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 2:34 AM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
Thank you so much for breaking up the MT solutions wiki page! It had =
gotten way out of control.

I bet Ed's 1M+ twist solution will strain a few things. It will be a =
great test case. Good luck Ed!

Finally, congratulations on 100k+ video views. That happened pretty q=
uickly. Maybe even faster than the 4D video.

Great stuff everyone!
-Melinda

On 10/22/2016 9:37 AM, Roice Nelson roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cubing] wrot=
e:

Super cool, both of you! Ed, will this be the first solve you've d=
one with >1M moves? I can't recall if there have been others.=20

An update on the Mathologer video and Klein bottle challenge... La=
st night, the video crossed 100,000 views, which is pretty cool. We have 2=
5 slots left in the challenge at the moment, and solutions have slowed quit=
e a bit. They are currently coming in about one a day, so I'm guessing the=
re will be at least a few weeks (likely longer) before it is full. I took =
the challenge myself (solver #49) and it was great fun - more difficult tha=
n I anticipated, with some surprising configurations. If you haven't tried=
it, try it. You'll be glad you did!

http://roice3.org/magictile/mathologer

I'm doing some wiki updates right now. I've already split the solu=
tions page into 3 separate pages, and am working on getting the puzzle list=
up to date with the current set of puzzles.

http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_v2_Solutions

Cheers,
Roice

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:02 AM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bluewi=
n.ch [4D_Cubing] <4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20

Hi Michael,

Wow!

Congratulations.

Do you think that Mathologer Challenge hall of fame reaches 100 i=
tems?

You are very economic.

I'm solving "MT ell isoca fev111 (Big Chop)" actually and I will =
reach about a million turns.

Best regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2016 2:22 AM
Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
Coming back with two huge but easy puzzles on {7,3}, and cleani=
ng up a lot of similar {4,4} puzzles (Torus/Klein/Skew).=20

{4,4} Torus 8-color F0.33:0:1 - 364 turns
{4,4} Torus 8-Color F0:2:0 - 388 turns
{4,4} Torus 9-Color F0:2:0 - 260 turns
{4,4} Torus 16-Color F0:2:0 - 446 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0.33:0:1 - 312 turns
{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0:2:0 - 286 turns

{7,3} 24-Color F1.4:0:0 F1.6:0:0 V1.4:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 9477 turns
{7,3} 24-Color V1.3:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 2110 turns

{4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2:0 - 270 turns
{4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2:0 - 468 turns
{4,4|5} 25-Color F0:2:0 - 1178 turns
{4,4|6} 36-Color F0:2:0 - 1402 turns
{4,4|7} 49-Color F0:2:0 - 2946 turns

-- Michael Gottlieb

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_0006_01D22F11.D603ABC0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=EF=BB=BF

Ah.

I do it always with macros. Eventually the=
y work=20
not at every place. In this case you must use the perhaps 50% working=20
places.

Best regards

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]">Melinda Green=20
melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10=
:32=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile=
=20
Solving

=20

Thanks for the encouragement, Ed. I started to do it but most of my ma=
cros=20
didn't work and I really don't want to do it without them. Roice understa=
nds=20
the issue involving non-orientable puzzles but the fixes (keeping track o=
f=20
orientation) appear more difficult than he's ready to take on at the=20
moment.

Best,
-Melinda

On 10/25/2016 7:46 AM, 'Eduard Baumann' class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated=20
href=3D"mailto:ed.baumann@bluewin.ch">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubin=
g]=20
wrote:

>=EF=BB=BF=20

First 79 entries in the Mathologer MT =
Challenge=20
Hall of Fame:

Only 2 women !? (Marie and=20
Marie-Chantal)

Melinda please, change this weard=20
statistics ;-)

[At least three M's instead of two=20
Marie's]

Best regars

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT=
: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

From: =20
title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com%20[4D_Cubing]" moz=3D"true">M=
elinda=20
Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroup=
s.com"=20
moz=3D"true">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016=
2:34=20
AM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicT=
ile=20
Solving

=20

Thank you so much for breaking up the MT solutions wiki page! It h=
ad=20
gotten way out of control.

I bet Ed's 1M+ twist solutio=
n=20
will strain a few things. It will be a great test case. Good luck=20
Ed!

Finally, congratulations on 100k+ video views. That happen=
ed=20
pretty quickly. Maybe even faster than the 4D video.

Great stu=
ff=20
everyone!
-Melinda

On 10/22/2016 9:37 AM, Roice Nelson class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated href=3D"mailto:roice3@gmail.com"=20
moz=3D"true">roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cubing] wrote:

cite=3Dmid:CAEMuGXoFJHxs=3DwC_TciJ0tS3_7u2vJf5OP34sba8RoLOkpOj9Q@mail=
.gmail.com=20
type=3D"cite">

Super cool, both of you! Ed, will this be=
the=20
first solve you've done with >1M moves? I can't recall if =
there=20
have been others.=20

An update on the Mathologer video and Klein bottle=20
challenge... Last night, the video crossed 100,000 views=
,=20
which is pretty cool. We have 25 slots left in the challenge =
at=20
the moment, and solutions have slowed quite a bit. They are=20
currently coming in about one a day, so I'm guessing there will be =
at=20
least a few weeks (likely longer) before it is full. I took t=
he=20
challenge myself (solver #49) and it was great fun - more difficult=
than=20
I anticipated, with some surprising configurations. If you ha=
ven't=20
tried it, try it. You'll be glad you did!

moz=3D"true">http://roice3.org/magictile/mathologer

I'm doing some wiki updates right now. I've already spli=
t the=20
solutions page into 3 separate pages, and am working on getting the=
=20
puzzle list up to date with the current set of puzzles.

tions"=20
moz=3D"true">http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_v2_Solutio=
ns

Cheers,

Roice

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:02 AM, 'Eduard B=
aumann'=20
moz=3D"true">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing] =
< href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com" target=3D_blank=20
moz=3D"true">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

te>=EF=BB=BF=20

>

Hi Michael,

Wow!

Congratulations.

Do you think that Mathologer Cha=
llenge=20
hall of fame reaches 100 items?

You are very economic.IV>

I'm solving "MT ell isoca fev=
111 (Big=20
Chop)" actually and I will reach about a million=20
turns.

Best regards

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN=
-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message ----- DIV>

From:B> title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:qqwref@yahoo.com+[4D_Cubing]" target=3D_blank=20
moz=3D"true">qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com" target=3D_blank=20
moz=3D"true">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, October =
22,=20
2016 2:22 AM

Subject: [MC4D] Re: Magi=
cTile=20
Solving

Coming back with two huge but easy puzzles on {7,3}, and cle=
aning=20
up a lot of similar {4,4} puzzles (Torus/Klein/Skew).=20

{4,4} Torus 8-color F0.33:0:1 - 364 turns

{4,4} Torus 8-Color F0:2:0 - 388 turns

{4,4} Torus 9-Color F0:2:0 - 260 turns

{4,4} Torus 16-Color F0:2:0 - 446 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0.33:0:1 - 312 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0:2:0 - 286 turns

{7,3} 24-Color F1.4:0:0 F1.6:0:0 V1.4:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 9477=
=20
turns

{7,3} 24-Color V1.3:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 2110 turns
<=
/DIV>

{4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2:0 - 270 turns

{4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2:0 - 468 turns

{4,4|5} 25-Color F0:2:0 - 1178 turns

{4,4|6} 36-Color F0:2:0 - 1402 turns

{4,4|7} 49-Color F0:2:0 - 2946 turns

-- Michael=20
Gottlieb

UOTE>

TE>

------=_NextPart_000_0006_01D22F11.D603ABC0--

From: Roice Nelson <roice3@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 17:45:03 -0500
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

--001a11440966774f92053fb842ab
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

If anyone else wants to follow the status of the macro issue, it is here
. You can watch that issue
for notifications, and I'll update it when fixed.

I think we had a few more females than what Ed listed, but it is definitely
way too lopsided. I also wish it was more gender balanced.

Best,
Roice

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 3:47 PM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
[4D_Cubing] <4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> =EF=BB=BF
>
>
> Ah.
> I do it always with macros. Eventually they work not at every place. In
> this case you must use the perhaps 50% working places.
> Best regards
> Ed
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Melinda Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]
>
> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:32 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving
>
>
>
> Thanks for the encouragement, Ed. I started to do it but most of my macro=
s
> didn't work and I really don't want to do it without them. Roice
> understands the issue involving non-orientable puzzles but the fixes
> (keeping track of orientation) appear more difficult than he's ready to
> take on at the moment.
>
> Best,
> -Melinda
>
> On 10/25/2016 7:46 AM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing]
> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
> First 79 entries in the Mathologer MT Challenge Hall of Fame:
>
> Only 2 women !? (Marie and Marie-Chantal)
>
> Melinda please, change this weard statistics ;-)
> [At least three M's instead of two Marie's]
>
> Best regars
> Ed
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Melinda Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]
>
> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 23, 2016 2:34 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving
>
>
>
> Thank you so much for breaking up the MT solutions wiki page! It had
> gotten *way *out of control.
>
> I bet Ed's 1M+ twist solution will strain a few things. It will be a grea=
t
> test case. Good luck Ed!
>
> Finally, congratulations on 100k+ video views. That happened pretty
> quickly. Maybe even faster than the 4D video.
>
> Great stuff everyone!
> -Melinda
>
> On 10/22/2016 9:37 AM, Roice Nelson roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cubing] wrote:
>
> Super cool, both of you! Ed, will this be the first solve you've done
> with >1M moves? I can't recall if there have been others.
>
> An update on the Mathologer video and Klein bottle challenge... Last
> night, the video crossed 100,000 views, which is pretty cool. We have 25
> slots left in the challenge at the moment, and solutions have slowed quit=
e
> a bit. They are currently coming in about one a day, so I'm guessing the=
re
> will be at least a few weeks (likely longer) before it is full. I took t=
he
> challenge myself (solver #49) and it was great fun - more difficult than =
I
> anticipated, with some surprising configurations. If you haven't tried i=
t,
> try it. You'll be glad you did!
>
> http://roice3.org/magictile/mathologer
>
> I'm doing some wiki updates right now. I've already split the solutions
> page into 3 separate pages, and am working on getting the puzzle list up =
to
> date with the current set of puzzles.
>
> http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_v2_Solutions
>
> Cheers,
> Roice
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:02 AM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
> [4D_Cubing] <4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>> =EF=BB=BF
>>
>>
>> Hi Michael,
>>
>> Wow!
>>
>> Congratulations.
>>
>> Do you think that Mathologer Challenge hall of fame reaches 100 items?
>>
>> You are very economic.
>>
>> I'm solving "*MT ell isoca fev111 (Big Chop)*" actually and I will reach
>> about a million turns.
>>
>> Best regards
>> Ed
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]
>> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 22, 2016 2:22 AM
>> *Subject:* [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving
>>
>>
>>
>> Coming back with two huge but easy puzzles on {7,3}, and cleaning up a
>> lot of similar {4,4} puzzles (Torus/Klein/Skew).
>>
>> {4,4} Torus 8-color F0.33:0:1 - 364 turns
>> {4,4} Torus 8-Color F0:2:0 - 388 turns
>> {4,4} Torus 9-Color F0:2:0 - 260 turns
>> {4,4} Torus 16-Color F0:2:0 - 446 turns
>>
>> {4,4} Klein 9-Color F0.33:0:1 - 312 turns
>> {4,4} Klein 9-Color F0:2:0 - 286 turns
>>
>> {7,3} 24-Color F1.4:0:0 F1.6:0:0 V1.4:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 9477 turns
>> {7,3} 24-Color V1.3:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 2110 turns
>>
>> {4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2:0 - 270 turns
>> {4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2:0 - 468 turns
>> {4,4|5} 25-Color F0:2:0 - 1178 turns
>> {4,4|6} 36-Color F0:2:0 - 1402 turns
>> {4,4|7} 49-Color F0:2:0 - 2946 turns
>>
>> -- Michael Gottlieb
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>=20
>

--001a11440966774f92053fb842ab
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

If anyone else wants to follow the status of the macro iss=
ue, it is here>.=C2=A0 You can watch that issue for notifications, and I'll update it=
when fixed.

I think we had a few more females than what=
Ed listed, but it is definitely way too lopsided.=C2=A0 I also wish it was=
more gender balanced.

Best,
Roice
iv>

=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 3:47 PM, 'Eduard Baumann' =
ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubi=
ng] <4D_C=
ubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
uote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1e=
x">

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
=EF=BB=BF

Ah.

I do it always with macros. Eventually=
they work=20
not at every place. In this case you must use the perhaps 50% working=20
places.

Best regards

Ed

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px">

----- Original Message -----

From:=20
l.com+[4D_Cubing]">Melinda Green=20
melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]

To: ps.com" href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=

pt arial">Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:32=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile=20
Solving

=C2=A0=20

Thanks for the encouragement, Ed. I started to do it but most of my ma=
cros=20
didn't work and I really don't want to do it without them. Roice =
understands=20
the issue involving non-orientable puzzles but the fixes (keeping track o=
f=20
orientation) appear more difficult than he's ready to take on at the=
=20
moment.

Best,
-Melinda

fix">On 10/25/2016 7:46 AM, 'Eduard Baumann' 313111139189m_1854312950422351274moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:e=
d.baumann@bluewin.ch">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing]=20
wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20

First 79 entries in the Mathologer=
MT Challenge=20
Hall of Fame:

=C2=A0

Only 2 women !?=C2=A0 (Marie and=20
Marie-Chantal)

=C2=A0

Melinda please, change this weard=
=20
statistics=C2=A0 ;-)

[At least three M's instead of=
two=20
Marie's]

=C2=A0

Best regars

Ed

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

IN-RIGHT:0px">

----- Original Message -----

From: le=3D"4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com" href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com%20=
[4D_Cubing]">Melinda=20
Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]

To: groups.com" href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups=
.com

Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 =
2:34=20
AM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTi=
le=20
Solving

=C2=A0=20

Thank you so much for breaking up the MT solutions wiki page! It h=
ad=20
gotten way out of control.

I bet Ed's 1M+ twist sol=
ution=20
will strain a few things. It will be a great test case. Good luck=20
Ed!

Finally, congratulations on 100k+ video views. That happen=
ed=20
pretty quickly. Maybe even faster than the 4D video.

Great stu=
ff=20
everyone!
-Melinda

fix">On 10/22/2016 9:37 AM, Roice Nelson m_1854312950422351274moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:roice3@gmail.=
com">roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cubing] wrote:

Super cool, both of you!=C2=A0 Ed, will=C2=A0this =
be the=20
first solve you've done with >1M moves?=C2=A0 I can't re=
call if there=20
have been others.=20

An update on the Mathologer video and Klein bottle=20
challenge...=C2=A0 Last night, the=C2=A0video crossed 100,000 views=
,=20
which is pretty cool.=C2=A0 We have 25 slots left in the challenge =
at=20
the moment, and solutions have slowed quite a bit.=C2=A0 They are=20
currently coming in about one a day, so I'm guessing there will=
be at=20
least a few weeks (likely longer) before it is full.=C2=A0 I took t=
he=20
challenge myself (solver #49) and it was great fun - more difficult=
than=20
I anticipated, with some surprising configurations.=C2=A0 If you ha=
ven't=20
tried it, try it.=C2=A0 You'll be glad you did!

http://roic=
e3.org/magictile/mathologer

I'm doing some wiki updates right now.=C2=A0 I've alre=
ady split the=20
solutions page into 3 separate pages, and am working on getting the=
=20
puzzle list up to date with the current set of puzzles.

tions">http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_v2_Solutions>

Cheers,

Roice

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:02 AM, 'Ed=
uard Baumann'=20
ed.baumann@bluewin.ch =
[4D_Cubing] <om">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

te">=EF=BB=BF=20

Hi Michael,

=C2=A0

Wow!

=C2=A0

Congratulations.>

=C2=A0

Do you think that Mathologer=
Challenge=20
hall of fame=C2=A0reaches 100 items?

=C2=A0

You are very economic.>

=C2=A0

I'm solving "MT =
ell isoca fev111 (Big=20
Chop)" actually and I will reach about a million=20
turns.

=C2=A0

Best regards

Ed

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

x;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px">

----- Original Message ----- iv>

From: =
Cubing]">qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]

To: @yahoogroups.com" href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoo=
groups.com

Sent: Saturday, October 2=
2,=20
2016 2:22 AM

Subject: [MC4D] Re: Magic=
Tile=20
Solving

=C2=A0

Coming back with two huge but easy puzzles on {7,3}, and cle=
aning=20
up a lot of similar {4,4} puzzles (Torus/Klein/Skew).=20

{4,4} Torus 8-color F0.33:0:1 - 364 turns

{4,4} Torus 8-Color F0:2:0 - 388 turns

{4,4} Torus 9-Color F0:2:0 - 260 turns

{4,4} Torus 16-Color F0:2:0 - 446 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0.33:0:1 - 312 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0:2:0 - 286 turns

{7,3} 24-Color F1.4:0:0 F1.6:0:0 V1.4:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 9477=
=20
turns

{7,3} 24-Color V1.3:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 2110 turns
<=
/div>

{4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2:0 - 270 turns

{4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2:0 - 468 turns

{4,4|5} 25-Color F0:2:0 - 1178 turns

{4,4|6} 36-Color F0:2:0 - 1402 turns

{4,4|7} 49-Color F0:2:0 - 2946 turns

-- Michael=20
Gottlieb

uote>

e>

--001a11440966774f92053fb842ab--

From: "Eduard Baumann" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2016 01:46:10 +0200
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_0026_01D22F2A.BC5DC700
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

New MagicTile First Solve for
MT sph ell icosahdron fev111 (Super Chop)

I used not 1M+ twists as estimated but 719'552 twists.

It took me 2 weeks (1 hour per day).

I had already a 1M+ solve: MT sph octa e200 for which I spent only 3 hours.

Here are pictures for different stages of the=20
MT sph ell icosahdron fev111 (Super Chop) solve

http://www.baumanneduard.ch/MagicTile/icosa_fev111_a.PNG
http://www.baumanneduard.ch/MagicTile/icosa_fev111_b.PNG
http://www.baumanneduard.ch/MagicTile/icosa_fev111_c.PNG
http://www.baumanneduard.ch/MagicTile/icosa_fev111_d.PNG
http://www.baumanneduard.ch/MagicTile/icosa_fev111_e.PNG
http://www.baumanneduard.ch/MagicTile/icosa_fev111_f.PNG

There is still one unsolved level in MT sph !

Best regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Roice Nelson roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 12:45 AM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20

If anyone else wants to follow the status of the macro issue, it is here.=
You can watch that issue for notifications, and I'll update it when fixed=
.

I think we had a few more females than what Ed listed, but it is definite=
ly way too lopsided. I also wish it was more gender balanced.

Best,
Roice

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 3:47 PM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [=
4D_Cubing] <4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20

Ah.
I do it always with macros. Eventually they work not at every place. In=
this case you must use the perhaps 50% working places.
Best regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:32 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
Thanks for the encouragement, Ed. I started to do it but most of my m=
acros didn't work and I really don't want to do it without them. Roice unde=
rstands the issue involving non-orientable puzzles but the fixes (keeping t=
rack of orientation) appear more difficult than he's ready to take on at th=
e moment.

Best,
-Melinda

On 10/25/2016 7:46 AM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cub=
ing] wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20
First 79 entries in the Mathologer MT Challenge Hall of Fame:

Only 2 women !? (Marie and Marie-Chantal)

Melinda please, change this weard statistics ;-)
[At least three M's instead of two Marie's]

Best regars
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 2:34 AM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
Thank you so much for breaking up the MT solutions wiki page! It =
had gotten way out of control.

I bet Ed's 1M+ twist solution will strain a few things. It will b=
e a great test case. Good luck Ed!

Finally, congratulations on 100k+ video views. That happened pret=
ty quickly. Maybe even faster than the 4D video.

Great stuff everyone!
-Melinda

On 10/22/2016 9:37 AM, Roice Nelson roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cubing] =
wrote:

Super cool, both of you! Ed, will this be the first solve you'=
ve done with >1M moves? I can't recall if there have been others.=20

An update on the Mathologer video and Klein bottle challenge...=
Last night, the video crossed 100,000 views, which is pretty cool. We ha=
ve 25 slots left in the challenge at the moment, and solutions have slowed =
quite a bit. They are currently coming in about one a day, so I'm guessing=
there will be at least a few weeks (likely longer) before it is full. I t=
ook the challenge myself (solver #49) and it was great fun - more difficult=
than I anticipated, with some surprising configurations. If you haven't t=
ried it, try it. You'll be glad you did!

http://roice3.org/magictile/mathologer

I'm doing some wiki updates right now. I've already split the =
solutions page into 3 separate pages, and am working on getting the puzzle =
list up to date with the current set of puzzles.

http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_v2_Solutions

Cheers,
Roice

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:02 AM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bl=
uewin.ch [4D_Cubing] <4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20

Hi Michael,

Wow!

Congratulations.

Do you think that Mathologer Challenge hall of fame reaches 1=
00 items?

You are very economic.

I'm solving "MT ell isoca fev111 (Big Chop)" actually and I w=
ill reach about a million turns.

Best regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2016 2:22 AM
Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
Coming back with two huge but easy puzzles on {7,3}, and cl=
eaning up a lot of similar {4,4} puzzles (Torus/Klein/Skew).=20

{4,4} Torus 8-color F0.33:0:1 - 364 turns
{4,4} Torus 8-Color F0:2:0 - 388 turns
{4,4} Torus 9-Color F0:2:0 - 260 turns
{4,4} Torus 16-Color F0:2:0 - 446 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0.33:0:1 - 312 turns
{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0:2:0 - 286 turns

{7,3} 24-Color F1.4:0:0 F1.6:0:0 V1.4:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 9477 t=
urns
{7,3} 24-Color V1.3:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 2110 turns

{4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2:0 - 270 turns
{4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2:0 - 468 turns
{4,4|5} 25-Color F0:2:0 - 1178 turns
{4,4|6} 36-Color F0:2:0 - 1402 turns
{4,4|7} 49-Color F0:2:0 - 2946 turns

-- Michael Gottlieb

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_0026_01D22F2A.BC5DC700
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=EF=BB=BF

New MagicTile First Solve for

MT sph ell icosahdron fev111 (Super=20
Chop)

I used not 1M+ twists as estimated but 719=
'552=20
twists.

It took me 2 weeks (1 hour per day).>

I had already a 1M+ solve: MT sph octa e20=
0 for=20
which I spent only 3 hours.

Here are pictures for different sta=
ges of=20
the=20
MT sph ell icosahdron fev111 (Super Chop)=
=20
solve

href=3D"http://www.baumanneduard.ch/MagicTile/icosa_fev111_a.PNG">http://ww=
w.baumanneduard.ch/MagicTile/icosa_fev111_a.PNG

href=3D"http://www.baumanneduard.ch/MagicTile/icosa_fev111_b.PNG">http://ww=
w.baumanneduard.ch/MagicTile/icosa_fev111_b.PNG

href=3D"http://www.baumanneduard.ch/MagicTile/icosa_fev111_c.PNG">http://ww=
w.baumanneduard.ch/MagicTile/icosa_fev111_c.PNG

href=3D"http://www.baumanneduard.ch/MagicTile/icosa_fev111_d.PNG">http://ww=
w.baumanneduard.ch/MagicTile/icosa_fev111_d.PNG

href=3D"http://www.baumanneduard.ch/MagicTile/icosa_fev111_e.PNG">http://ww=
w.baumanneduard.ch/MagicTile/icosa_fev111_e.PNG

href=3D"http://www.baumanneduard.ch/MagicTile/icosa_fev111_f.PNG">http://ww=
w.baumanneduard.ch/MagicTile/icosa_fev111_f.PNG

There is still one unsolved level in MT sph !

Best regards

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cubing]">Roice Nelson roice3@gmail.co=
m=20
[4D_Cubing]

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2016 =
12:45=20
AM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile=
=20
Solving

=20

If anyone else wants to follow the status of the macro iss=
ue, it=20
is here.&nb=
sp; You=20
can watch that issue for notifications, and I'll update it when fixed.

I think we had a few more females than what Ed listed, but it is=20
definitely way too lopsided. I also wish it was more gender=20
balanced.

Best,

Roice

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 3:47 PM, 'Eduard Baumann=
' href=3D"mailto:ed.baumann@bluewin.ch">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubin=
g]=20
< href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com&g=
t;=20
wrote:

=EF=
=BB=BF=20

Ah.

I do it always with macros. Eventually=
they=20
work not at every place. In this case you must use the perhaps 50% work=
ing=20
places.

Best regards

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT=
: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

From: =20
title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com+[4D_Cubing]">Melinda Green=20
melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.comA>=20

Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 201=
6 10:32=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicT=
ile=20
Solving

=20

Thanks for the encouragement, Ed. I started to do it but most of m=
y=20
macros didn't work and I really don't want to do it without them. Roi=
ce=20
understands the issue involving non-orientable puzzles but the fixes=
=20
(keeping track of orientation) appear more difficult than he's ready =
to=20
take on at the moment.

Best,
-Melinda

ix>On=20
10/25/2016 7:46 AM, 'Eduard Baumann' class=3Dm_-7710490313111139189m_1854312950422351274moz-txt-link-abbre=
viated=20
href=3D"mailto:ed.baumann@bluewin.ch">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_C=
ubing]=20
wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20

First 79 entries in the Mathologer=
MT=20
Challenge Hall of Fame:

Only 2 women !? (Marie and=20
Marie-Chantal)

Melinda please, change this weard=
=20
statistics ;-)

[At least three M's instead of two=
=20
Marie's]

Best regars

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-R=
IGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message ----- V>

From:=
title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com%20[4D_Cubing]">Melinda Gr=
een=20
melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.c=
om=20

Sent: Sunday, October 23, =
2016=20
2:34 AM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: Ma=
gicTile=20
Solving

=20

Thank you so much for breaking up the MT solutions wiki page! =
It=20
had gotten way out of control.

I bet Ed's 1M+ twist=
=20
solution will strain a few things. It will be a great test case. =
Good=20
luck Ed!

Finally, congratulations on 100k+ video views. Th=
at=20
happened pretty quickly. Maybe even faster than the 4D=20
video.

Great stuff everyone!
-Melinda

class=3Dm_-7710490313111139189m_1854312950422351274moz-cite-prefi=
x>On=20
10/22/2016 9:37 AM, Roice Nelson class=3Dm_-7710490313111139189m_1854312950422351274moz-txt-link-a=
bbreviated=20
href=3D"mailto:roice3@gmail.com">roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cubing]=
=20
wrote:

Super cool, both of you! Ed, will thi=
s be=20
the first solve you've done with >1M moves? I can't re=
call=20
if there have been others.=20

An update on the Mathologer video and Klein bottle=20
challenge... Last night, the video crossed 100,000 v=
iews,=20
which is pretty cool. We have 25 slots left in the challe=
nge=20
at the moment, and solutions have slowed quite a bit. The=
y are=20
currently coming in about one a day, so I'm guessing there will=
be=20
at least a few weeks (likely longer) before it is full. I=
took=20
the challenge myself (solver #49) and it was great fun - more=20
difficult than I anticipated, with some surprising=20
configurations. If you haven't tried it, try it. Yo=
u'll=20
be glad you did!

href=3D"http://roice3.org/magictile/mathologer">http://roice3.o=
rg/magictile/mathologer

I'm doing some wiki updates right now. I've already =
split=20
the solutions page into 3 separate pages, and am working on get=
ting=20
the puzzle list up to date with the current set of puzzles.V>

href=3D"http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_v2_Solution=
s">http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_v2_Solutions
IV>

Cheers,

Roice

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:02 AM, 'Edua=
rd=20
Baumann' href=3D"mailto:ed.baumann@bluewin.ch">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch=
=20
[4D_Cubing] < href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups=
.com>=20
wrote:

class=3Dgmail_quote>=EF=BB=BF=20

>

Hi Michael,

Wow!

Congratulations.>

Do you think that Mathologer=
=20
Challenge hall of fame reaches 100 items?

You are very economic.>

I'm solving "MT ell isoca=
fev111=20
(Big Chop)" actually and I will reach about a million=20
turns.

Best regards

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MA=
RGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message ----=
-=20

Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:qqwref@yahoo.com+[4D_Cubing]">qqwref@yahoo.c=
om=20
[4D_Cubing]

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogr=
oups.com=20

Sent: Saturday, Octo=
ber 22,=20
2016 2:22 AM

Subject: [MC4D] Re:=
=20
MagicTile Solving

Coming back with two huge but easy puzzles on {7,3}, and=
=20
cleaning up a lot of similar {4,4} puzzles (Torus/Klein/Ske=
w).=20

{4,4} Torus 8-color F0.33:0:1 - 364 turns

{4,4} Torus 8-Color F0:2:0 - 388 turns

{4,4} Torus 9-Color F0:2:0 - 260 turns

{4,4} Torus 16-Color F0:2:0 - 446 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0.33:0:1 - 312 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0:2:0 - 286 turns

{7,3} 24-Color F1.4:0:0 F1.6:0:0 V1.4:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 9=
477=20
turns

{7,3} 24-Color V1.3:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 2110=20
turns

{4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2:0 - 270 turns

{4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2:0 - 468 turns

{4,4|5} 25-Color F0:2:0 - 1178 turns

{4,4|6} 36-Color F0:2:0 - 1402 turns

{4,4|7} 49-Color F0:2:0 - 2946 turns

-- Michael=20
Gottlieb

OCKQUOTE>

KQUOTE>

width=3D"1">

<=
/DIV>

------=_NextPart_000_0026_01D22F2A.BC5DC700--

From: Melinda Green <melinda@superliminal.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2016 14:19:43 -0700
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

--------------A2D9B821A0A36A5C6AD8ED1B
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I hadn't considered simply avoiding the broken locations, thinking I was=20
going to need multiple versions for each rotation. Maybe I'll see if I=20
can just use set-up moves to use the locations that do work.

On 10/25/2016 1:47 PM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bluewin.ch=20
[4D_Cubing] wrote:
> =EF=BB=BF
>
> Ah.
> I do it always with macros. Eventually they work not at every place.=20
> In this case you must use the perhaps 50% working places.
> Best regards
> Ed
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Melinda Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]
>
> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:32 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving
>
> Thanks for the encouragement, Ed. I started to do it but most of
> my macros didn't work and I really don't want to do it without
> them. Roice understands the issue involving non-orientable puzzles
> but the fixes (keeping track of orientation) appear more difficult
> than he's ready to take on at the moment.
>
> Best,
> -Melinda
>
> On 10/25/2016 7:46 AM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
> [4D_Cubing] wrote:
>> =EF=BB=BF
>> First 79 entries in the Mathologer MT Challenge Hall of Fame:
>> Only 2 women !? (Marie and Marie-Chantal)
>> Melinda please, change this weard statistics ;-)
>> [At least three M's instead of two Marie's]
>> Best regars
>> Ed
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Melinda Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]
>>
>> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
>>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, October 23, 2016 2:34 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving
>>
>> Thank you so much for breaking up the MT solutions wiki page!
>> It had gotten /way /out of control.
>>
>> I bet Ed's 1M+ twist solution will strain a few things. It
>> will be a great test case. Good luck Ed!
>>
>> Finally, congratulations on 100k+ video views. That happened
>> pretty quickly. Maybe even faster than the 4D video.
>>
>> Great stuff everyone!
>> -Melinda
>>
>> On 10/22/2016 9:37 AM, Roice Nelson roice3@gmail.com
>> [4D_Cubing] wrote:
>>> Super cool, both of you! Ed, will this be the first solve
>>> you've done with >1M moves? I can't recall if there have
>>> been others.
>>>
>>> An update on the Mathologer video and Klein bottle
>>> challenge... Last night, the video crossed 100,000 views,
>>> which is pretty cool. We have 25 slots left in the
>>> challenge at the moment, and solutions have slowed quite a
>>> bit. They are currently coming in about one a day, so I'm
>>> guessing there will be at least a few weeks (likely longer)
>>> before it is full. I took the challenge myself (solver #49)
>>> and it was great fun - more difficult than I anticipated,
>>> with some surprising configurations. If you haven't tried
>>> it, try it. You'll be glad you did!
>>>
>>> http://roice3.org/magictile/mathologer
>>>
>>> I'm doing some wiki updates right now. I've already split
>>> the solutions page into 3 separate pages, and am working on
>>> getting the puzzle list up to date with the current set of
>>> puzzles.
>>>
>>> http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_v2_Solutions
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Roice
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:02 AM, 'Eduard Baumann'
>>> ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
>>> [4D_Cubing] <4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> =EF=BB=BF
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Michael,
>>> Wow!
>>> Congratulations.
>>> Do you think that Mathologer Challenge hall of
>>> fame reaches 100 items?
>>> You are very economic.
>>> I'm solving "_MT ell isoca fev111 (Big Chop)_" actually
>>> and I will reach about a million turns.
>>> Best regards
>>> Ed
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]
>>>
>>> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 22, 2016 2:22 AM
>>> *Subject:* [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving
>>>
>>> Coming back with two huge but easy puzzles on {7,3},
>>> and cleaning up a lot of similar {4,4} puzzles
>>> (Torus/Klein/Skew).
>>>
>>>
>>> {4,4} Torus 8-color F0.33:0:1 - 364 turns
>>> {4,4} Torus 8-Color F0:2:0 - 388 turns
>>> {4,4} Torus 9-Color F0:2:0 - 260 turns
>>> {4,4} Torus 16-Color F0:2:0 - 446 turns
>>>
>>> {4,4} Klein 9-Color F0.33:0:1 - 312 turns
>>> {4,4} Klein 9-Color F0:2:0 - 286 turns
>>>
>>> {7,3} 24-Color F1.4:0:0 F1.6:0:0 V1.4:0:0 V1.6:0:0 -
>>> 9477 turns
>>> {7,3} 24-Color V1.3:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 2110 turns
>>>
>>> {4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2:0 - 270 turns
>>> {4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2:0 - 468 turns
>>> {4,4|5} 25-Color F0:2:0 - 1178 turns
>>> {4,4|6} 36-Color F0:2:0 - 1402 turns
>>> {4,4|7} 49-Color F0:2:0 - 2946 turns
>>>
>>> -- Michael Gottlieb
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>=20=20=20=20=20
>

--------------A2D9B821A0A36A5C6AD8ED1B
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

">

I hadn't considered simply avoiding the broken locations, thinking I
was going to need multiple versions for each rotation. Maybe I'll
see if I can just use set-up moves to use the locations that do
work.

On 10/25/2016 1:47 PM, 'Eduard Baumann'
in.ch">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing] wrote:

type=3D"cite">
=EF=BB=BF
pe">

=20=20=20=20=20=20

Ah.

I do it always with macros.
Eventually they work not at every place. In this case you must
use the perhaps 50% working places.

Best regards

Ed

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

black">From: title=3D"4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com%20[4D_Cubing]">Melinda
Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]

To: moz-do-not-send=3D"true" title=3D"4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups=
.com

Sent: Tuesday, October 25,
2016 10:32 PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re:
MagicTile Solving

=C2=A0

Thanks for the encouragement, Ed. I started to do it but
most of my macros didn't work and I really don't want to do
it without them. Roice understands the issue involving
non-orientable puzzles but the fixes (keeping track of
orientation) appear more difficult than he's ready to take
on at the moment.

Best,

-Melinda

On 10/25/2016 7:46 AM, 'Eduard
Baumann' class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href=3D"mailto:ed.baumann@bluewin.ch">ed.baumann@bluewin.cha>
[4D_Cubing] wrote:

type=3D"cite">=EF=BB=BF

First 79 entries in the
Mathologer MT Challenge Hall of Fame:

=C2=A0

Only 2 women !?=C2=A0 (Mar=
ie and
Marie-Chantal)

=C2=A0

Melinda please, change thi=
s
weard statistics=C2=A0 ;-)

[At least three M's instea=
d
of two Marie's]

=C2=A0

Best regars

Ed

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

From:=

title=3D"4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com%20[4D_Cubing]"
moz=3D"true">Melinda Green melinda@superliminal.com
[4D_Cubing]

To: moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
title=3D"4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com" moz=3D"true">4D=
_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, October
23, 2016 2:34 AM

Subject: Re: [MC4D]
Re: MagicTile Solving

=C2=A0

Thank you so much for breaking up the MT solutions
wiki page! It had gotten way out of control.

I bet Ed's 1M+ twist solution will strain a few
things. It will be a great test case. Good luck Ed!

Finally, congratulations on 100k+ video views. That
happened pretty quickly. Maybe even faster than the 4D
video.

Great stuff everyone!

-Melinda

On 10/22/2016 9:37 AM,
Roice Nelson class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href=3D"mailto:roice3@gmail.com" moz=3D"true">roice3@gm=
ail.com
[4D_Cubing] wrote:

cite=3D"mid:CAEMuGXoFJHxs=3DwC_TciJ0tS3_7u2vJf5OP34sba8RoLOkpOj9Q@mail.gmai=
l.com"
type=3D"cite">

Super cool, both of you!=C2=A0 Ed, will=
=C2=A0this
be the first solve you've done with >1M moves?=C2=A0=
I
can't recall if there have been others.

An update on the Mathologer video and Klein
bottle challenge...=C2=A0 Last night, the=C2=A0video =
crossed
100,000 views, which is pretty cool.=C2=A0 We have 25
slots left in the challenge at the moment, and
solutions have slowed quite a bit.=C2=A0 They are
currently coming in about one a day, so I'm
guessing there will be at least a few weeks
(likely longer) before it is full.=C2=A0 I took the
challenge myself (solver #49) and it was great fun
- more difficult than I anticipated, with some
surprising configurations.=C2=A0 If you haven't tried
it, try it.=C2=A0 You'll be glad you did!

href=3D"http://roice3.org/magictile/mathologer"
moz=3D"true">http://roice3.org/magictile/mathologer=

I'm doing some wiki updates right now.=C2=A0 I've
already split the solutions page into 3 separate
pages, and am working on getting the puzzle list
up to date with the current set of puzzles.

href=3D"http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile=
_v2_Solutions"
moz=3D"true">http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/Magi=
cTile_v2_Solutions

Cheers,

Roice

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at
4:02 AM, 'Eduard Baumann' moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
href=3D"mailto:ed.baumann@bluewin.ch" moz=3D"true">=
ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
[4D_Cubing] < moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
target=3D"_blank" moz=3D"true">4D_Cubing@yahoogro=
ups.com>
wrote:

class=3D"gmail_quote">=EF=BB=BF

bgcolor=3D"#ffffff">

Hi Michael,<=
/font>

=C2=A0

Wow!<=
/div>

=C2=A0

Congratulati=
ons.

=C2=A0

Do you think
that Mathologer Challenge hall of
fame=C2=A0reaches 100 items?

=C2=A0

You are very
economic.

=C2=A0

I'm solving =
"MT
ell isoca fev111 (Big Chop)"
actually and I will reach about a million
turns.

=C2=A0

Best regards=

Ediv>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">an>

-----
Original Message -----

#e4e4e4">From: moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
title=3D"4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
href=3D"mailto:qqwref@yahoo.com+[4D_Cubin=
g]"
target=3D"_blank" moz=3D"true">qqwref@yah=
oo.com
[4D_Cubing]

To: moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
title=3D"4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
target=3D"_blank" moz=3D"true">4D_Cubing@=
yahoogroups.com

Sent:
Saturday, October 22, 2016 2:22 AM

Subject:b>
[MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=C2=A0

Coming back with two huge but easy
puzzles on {7,3}, and cleaning up a lot
of similar {4,4} puzzles
(Torus/Klein/Skew).

{4,4} Torus 8-color F0.33:0:1 - 364
turns

{4,4} Torus 8-Color F0:2:0 - 388
turns

{4,4} Torus 9-Color F0:2:0 - 260
turns

{4,4} Torus 16-Color F0:2:0 - 446
turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0.33:0:1 - 312
turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0:2:0 - 286
turns

{7,3} 24-Color F1.4:0:0 F1.6:0:0
V1.4:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 9477 turns

{7,3} 24-Color V1.3:0:0 V1.6:0:0
- 2110 turns

{4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2:0 - 270
turns

{4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2:0 - 468
turns

{4,4|5} 25-Color F0:2:0 - 1178
turns

{4,4|6} 36-Color F0:2:0 - 1402
turns

{4,4|7} 49-Color F0:2:0 - 2946
turns

-- Michael Gottlieb

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20

--------------A2D9B821A0A36A5C6AD8ED1B--

From: "Eduard Baumann" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2016 00:07:34 +0200
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_004A_01D230AF.4B0A6C30
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The MagicTile groupe "elliptic sphere" is now completely solved !

The last not solved puzzle was=20
eb_MT_ell_sph_cube_fev111 (Super Chop)

It took me 56672 twists.

Here is an illustration of the puzzle near finishing:
http://www.baumanneduard.ch/MagicTile/eb_MT_ell_sph_cube_fev111.PNG

In the next groupe "elliptic projective" there are 14 unsolved puzzles.

Standings between Ed and Michael

Ed Mike
ell 117 111
eucl 64 116
hyp 194 267
irp+skew 83 87
tot 458 581

Best regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
I hadn't considered simply avoiding the broken locations, thinking I was =
going to need multiple versions for each rotation. Maybe I'll see if I can =
just use set-up moves to use the locations that do work.

On 10/25/2016 1:47 PM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing]=
wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20
Ah.
I do it always with macros. Eventually they work not at every place. In=
this case you must use the perhaps 50% working places.
Best regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:32 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
Thanks for the encouragement, Ed. I started to do it but most of my m=
acros didn't work and I really don't want to do it without them. Roice unde=
rstands the issue involving non-orientable puzzles but the fixes (keeping t=
rack of orientation) appear more difficult than he's ready to take on at th=
e moment.

Best,
-Melinda

On 10/25/2016 7:46 AM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cub=
ing] wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20
First 79 entries in the Mathologer MT Challenge Hall of Fame:

Only 2 women !? (Marie and Marie-Chantal)

Melinda please, change this weard statistics ;-)
[At least three M's instead of two Marie's]

Best regars
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 2:34 AM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
Thank you so much for breaking up the MT solutions wiki page! It =
had gotten way out of control.

I bet Ed's 1M+ twist solution will strain a few things. It will b=
e a great test case. Good luck Ed!

Finally, congratulations on 100k+ video views. That happened pret=
ty quickly. Maybe even faster than the 4D video.

Great stuff everyone!
-Melinda

On 10/22/2016 9:37 AM, Roice Nelson roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cubing] =
wrote:

Super cool, both of you! Ed, will this be the first solve you'=
ve done with >1M moves? I can't recall if there have been others.=20

An update on the Mathologer video and Klein bottle challenge...=
Last night, the video crossed 100,000 views, which is pretty cool. We ha=
ve 25 slots left in the challenge at the moment, and solutions have slowed =
quite a bit. They are currently coming in about one a day, so I'm guessing=
there will be at least a few weeks (likely longer) before it is full. I t=
ook the challenge myself (solver #49) and it was great fun - more difficult=
than I anticipated, with some surprising configurations. If you haven't t=
ried it, try it. You'll be glad you did!

http://roice3.org/magictile/mathologer

I'm doing some wiki updates right now. I've already split the =
solutions page into 3 separate pages, and am working on getting the puzzle =
list up to date with the current set of puzzles.

http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_v2_Solutions

Cheers,
Roice

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:02 AM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bl=
uewin.ch [4D_Cubing] <4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20

Hi Michael,

Wow!

Congratulations.

Do you think that Mathologer Challenge hall of fame reaches 1=
00 items?

You are very economic.

I'm solving "MT ell isoca fev111 (Big Chop)" actually and I w=
ill reach about a million turns.

Best regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2016 2:22 AM
Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
Coming back with two huge but easy puzzles on {7,3}, and cl=
eaning up a lot of similar {4,4} puzzles (Torus/Klein/Skew).=20

{4,4} Torus 8-color F0.33:0:1 - 364 turns
{4,4} Torus 8-Color F0:2:0 - 388 turns
{4,4} Torus 9-Color F0:2:0 - 260 turns
{4,4} Torus 16-Color F0:2:0 - 446 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0.33:0:1 - 312 turns
{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0:2:0 - 286 turns

{7,3} 24-Color F1.4:0:0 F1.6:0:0 V1.4:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 9477 t=
urns
{7,3} 24-Color V1.3:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 2110 turns

{4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2:0 - 270 turns
{4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2:0 - 468 turns
{4,4|5} 25-Color F0:2:0 - 1178 turns
{4,4|6} 36-Color F0:2:0 - 1402 turns
{4,4|7} 49-Color F0:2:0 - 2946 turns

-- Michael Gottlieb

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_004A_01D230AF.4B0A6C30
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=EF=BB=BF

The MagicTile groupe "elliptic sphere" is =
now=20
completely solved !

The last not solved puzzle was V>
eb_MT_ell_sph_cube_fev111 (Super=20
Chop)

It took me 56672 twists.

Here is an illustration of the puzzle near=
=20
finishing:

href=3D"http://www.baumanneduard.ch/MagicTile/eb_MT_ell_sph_cube_fev111.PNG=
">http://www.baumanneduard.ch/MagicTile/color=3D#000000>eb_MT_ell_sph_cube_fev111.PNGIV>

In the next groupe "elliptic projective" t=
here are=20
14 unsolved puzzles.

Standings between Ed and MichaelIV>

       =20
           =20
Ed           =20
Mike

ell       =20
        117      &nb=
sp;=20
    111

face=3DArial>eucl         &nbs=
p;   =20
64            &=
nbsp;116

face=3DArial>hyp          =
;     194       =
;    267

irp+skew      &nb=
sp;=20
83            87

tot       =20
        458      &nb=
sp;=20
    581

Best regards

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]">Melinda Green=20
melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 11=
:19=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile=
=20
Solving

=20

I hadn't considered simply avoiding the broken locations, thinking I w=
as=20
going to need multiple versions for each rotation. Maybe I'll see if I ca=
n=20
just use set-up moves to use the locations that do work.

On 10/25/2016 1:47 PM, 'Eduard Baumann' class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated=20
href=3D"mailto:ed.baumann@bluewin.ch">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubin=
g]=20
wrote:

>=EF=BB=BF=20

Ah.

I do it always with macros. Eventually=
they=20
work not at every place. In this case you must use the perhaps 50% work=
ing=20
places.

Best regards

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT=
: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

From: =20
title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com%20[4D_Cubing]" moz=3D"true">M=
elinda=20
Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroup=
s.com"=20
moz=3D"true">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 201=
6 10:32=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicT=
ile=20
Solving

=20

Thanks for the encouragement, Ed. I started to do it but most of m=
y=20
macros didn't work and I really don't want to do it without them. Roi=
ce=20
understands the issue involving non-orientable puzzles but the fixes=
=20
(keeping track of orientation) appear more difficult than he's ready =
to=20
take on at the moment.

Best,
-Melinda

On 10/25/2016 7:46 AM, 'Eduard Baumann' =
class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated href=3D"mailto:ed.baumann@bluewin.ch=
"=20
moz=3D"true">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing] wrote:

ite">=EF=BB=BF=20

First 79 entries in the Mathologer=
MT=20
Challenge Hall of Fame:

Only 2 women !? (Marie and=20
Marie-Chantal)

Melinda please, change this weard=
=20
statistics ;-)

[At least three M's instead of two=
=20
Marie's]

Best regars

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-R=
IGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message ----- V>

From:=
title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com%20[4D_Cubing]"=20
moz=3D"true">Melinda Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]A>=20

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"=20
moz=3D"true">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, October 23, =
2016=20
2:34 AM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: Ma=
gicTile=20
Solving

=20

Thank you so much for breaking up the MT solutions wiki page! =
It=20
had gotten way out of control.

I bet Ed's 1M+ twist=
=20
solution will strain a few things. It will be a great test case. =
Good=20
luck Ed!

Finally, congratulations on 100k+ video views. Th=
at=20
happened pretty quickly. Maybe even faster than the 4D=20
video.

Great stuff everyone!
-Melinda

On 10/22/2016 9:37 AM, Roice Nelson =
class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated href=3D"mailto:roice3@gmail.com"=
=20
moz=3D"true">roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cubing] wrote:

cite=3Dmid:CAEMuGXoFJHxs=3DwC_TciJ0tS3_7u2vJf5OP34sba8RoLOkpOj9Q@=
mail.gmail.com=20
type=3D"cite">

Super cool, both of you! Ed, will thi=
s be=20
the first solve you've done with >1M moves? I can't re=
call=20
if there have been others.=20

An update on the Mathologer video and Klein bottle=20
challenge... Last night, the video crossed 100,000 v=
iews,=20
which is pretty cool. We have 25 slots left in the challe=
nge=20
at the moment, and solutions have slowed quite a bit. The=
y are=20
currently coming in about one a day, so I'm guessing there will=
be=20
at least a few weeks (likely longer) before it is full. I=
took=20
the challenge myself (solver #49) and it was great fun - more=20
difficult than I anticipated, with some surprising=20
configurations. If you haven't tried it, try it. Yo=
u'll=20
be glad you did!

moz=3D"true">http://roice3.org/magictile/mathologer

I'm doing some wiki updates right now. I've already =
split=20
the solutions page into 3 separate pages, and am working on get=
ting=20
the puzzle list up to date with the current set of puzzles.V>

href=3D"http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_v2_Solution=
s"=20
moz=3D"true">http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_v2_Sol=
utions

Cheers,

Roice

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:02 AM, 'Edua=
rd=20
Baumann' moz=3D"true">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing] dir=3Dltr><et=3D_blank=20
moz=3D"true">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:>

class=3Dgmail_quote>=EF=BB=BF=20

>

Hi Michael,

Wow!

Congratulations.>

Do you think that Mathologer=
=20
Challenge hall of fame reaches 100 items?

You are very economic.>

I'm solving "MT ell isoca=
fev111=20
(Big Chop)" actually and I will reach about a million=20
turns.

Best regards

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MA=
RGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message ----=
-=20

Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:qqwref@yahoo.com+[4D_Cubing]" target=3D_blan=
k=20
moz=3D"true">qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com" target=3D_blank=20
moz=3D"true">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, Octo=
ber 22,=20
2016 2:22 AM

Subject: [MC4D] Re:=
=20
MagicTile Solving

Coming back with two huge but easy puzzles on {7,3}, and=
=20
cleaning up a lot of similar {4,4} puzzles (Torus/Klein/Ske=
w).=20

{4,4} Torus 8-color F0.33:0:1 - 364 turns

{4,4} Torus 8-Color F0:2:0 - 388 turns

{4,4} Torus 9-Color F0:2:0 - 260 turns

{4,4} Torus 16-Color F0:2:0 - 446 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0.33:0:1 - 312 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0:2:0 - 286 turns

{7,3} 24-Color F1.4:0:0 F1.6:0:0 V1.4:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 9=
477=20
turns

{7,3} 24-Color V1.3:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 2110=20
turns

{4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2:0 - 270 turns

{4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2:0 - 468 turns

{4,4|5} 25-Color F0:2:0 - 1178 turns

{4,4|6} 36-Color F0:2:0 - 1402 turns

{4,4|7} 49-Color F0:2:0 - 2946 turns

-- Michael=20
Gottlieb

OCKQUOTE>

QUOTE>

TE>

------=_NextPart_000_004A_01D230AF.4B0A6C30--

From: Roice Nelson <roice3@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 17:17:26 -0500
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

--94eb2c0947b857ec8c053fe01bc8
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

That's awesome Ed, congrats to you and the other solvers!!

It sounds like I need to configure some more sphere puzzle slicings this
weekend :D Maybe there is even another coloring akin to the {3,5} 8-Color
puzzle waiting to be discovered.

Cheers,
Roice

On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 5:07 PM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
[4D_Cubing] <4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> =EF=BB=BF
>
>
> The MagicTile groupe "elliptic sphere" is now completely solved !
>
> The last not solved puzzle was
> *eb_MT_ell_sph_cube_fev111 (Super Chop)*
>
> It took me 56672 twists.
>
> Here is an illustration of the puzzle near finishing:
> http://www.baumanneduard.ch/MagicTile/*eb_MT_ell_sph_cube_fev111*.PNG
>
>
> In the next groupe "elliptic projective" there are 14 unsolved puzzles.
>
> Standings between Ed and Michael
>
> Ed Mike
> ell 117 111
> eucl 64 116
> hyp 194 267
> irp+skew 83 87
> tot 458 581
>
> Best regards
> Ed
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Melinda Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]
>
> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 11:19 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving
>
>
>
> I hadn't considered simply avoiding the broken locations, thinking I was
> going to need multiple versions for each rotation. Maybe I'll see if I ca=
n
> just use set-up moves to use the locations that do work.
>
> On 10/25/2016 1:47 PM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing]
> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
> Ah.
> I do it always with macros. Eventually they work not at every place. In
> this case you must use the perhaps 50% working places.
> Best regards
> Ed
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Melinda Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]
>
> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:32 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving
>
>
>
> Thanks for the encouragement, Ed. I started to do it but most of my macro=
s
> didn't work and I really don't want to do it without them. Roice
> understands the issue involving non-orientable puzzles but the fixes
> (keeping track of orientation) appear more difficult than he's ready to
> take on at the moment.
>
> Best,
> -Melinda
>
> On 10/25/2016 7:46 AM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing]
> wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
> First 79 entries in the Mathologer MT Challenge Hall of Fame:
>
> Only 2 women !? (Marie and Marie-Chantal)
>
> Melinda please, change this weard statistics ;-)
> [At least three M's instead of two Marie's]
>
> Best regars
> Ed
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Melinda Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]
>
> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 23, 2016 2:34 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving
>
>
>
> Thank you so much for breaking up the MT solutions wiki page! It had
> gotten *way *out of control.
>
> I bet Ed's 1M+ twist solution will strain a few things. It will be a grea=
t
> test case. Good luck Ed!
>
> Finally, congratulations on 100k+ video views. That happened pretty
> quickly. Maybe even faster than the 4D video.
>
> Great stuff everyone!
> -Melinda
>
> On 10/22/2016 9:37 AM, Roice Nelson roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cubing] wrote:
>
> Super cool, both of you! Ed, will this be the first solve you've done
> with >1M moves? I can't recall if there have been others.
>
> An update on the Mathologer video and Klein bottle challenge... Last
> night, the video crossed 100,000 views, which is pretty cool. We have 25
> slots left in the challenge at the moment, and solutions have slowed quit=
e
> a bit. They are currently coming in about one a day, so I'm guessing the=
re
> will be at least a few weeks (likely longer) before it is full. I took t=
he
> challenge myself (solver #49) and it was great fun - more difficult than =
I
> anticipated, with some surprising configurations. If you haven't tried i=
t,
> try it. You'll be glad you did!
>
> http://roice3.org/magictile/mathologer
>
> I'm doing some wiki updates right now. I've already split the solutions
> page into 3 separate pages, and am working on getting the puzzle list up =
to
> date with the current set of puzzles.
>
> http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_v2_Solutions
>
> Cheers,
> Roice
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:02 AM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
> [4D_Cubing] <4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>> =EF=BB=BF
>>
>>
>> Hi Michael,
>>
>> Wow!
>>
>> Congratulations.
>>
>> Do you think that Mathologer Challenge hall of fame reaches 100 items?
>>
>> You are very economic.
>>
>> I'm solving "*MT ell isoca fev111 (Big Chop)*" actually and I will reach
>> about a million turns.
>>
>> Best regards
>> Ed
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]
>> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 22, 2016 2:22 AM
>> *Subject:* [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving
>>
>>
>>
>> Coming back with two huge but easy puzzles on {7,3}, and cleaning up a
>> lot of similar {4,4} puzzles (Torus/Klein/Skew).
>>
>> {4,4} Torus 8-color F0.33:0:1 - 364 turns
>> {4,4} Torus 8-Color F0:2:0 - 388 turns
>> {4,4} Torus 9-Color F0:2:0 - 260 turns
>> {4,4} Torus 16-Color F0:2:0 - 446 turns
>>
>> {4,4} Klein 9-Color F0.33:0:1 - 312 turns
>> {4,4} Klein 9-Color F0:2:0 - 286 turns
>>
>> {7,3} 24-Color F1.4:0:0 F1.6:0:0 V1.4:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 9477 turns
>> {7,3} 24-Color V1.3:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 2110 turns
>>
>> {4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2:0 - 270 turns
>> {4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2:0 - 468 turns
>> {4,4|5} 25-Color F0:2:0 - 1178 turns
>> {4,4|6} 36-Color F0:2:0 - 1402 turns
>> {4,4|7} 49-Color F0:2:0 - 2946 turns
>>
>> -- Michael Gottlieb
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>=20
>

--94eb2c0947b857ec8c053fe01bc8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

That's awesome Ed, congrats to you and the other solve=
rs!!

It sounds like I need to configure some more sphere=
puzzle slicings this weekend :D =C2=A0Maybe there is even another coloring=
akin to the {3,5} 8-Color puzzle waiting to be discovered.

<=
/div>
Cheers,
Roice

mail_extra">
On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 5:07 PM,=
'Eduard Baumann' ed.bauma=
nn@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing] <bing@yahoogroups.com" target=3D"_blank">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com>span> wrote:
x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
=EF=BB=BF

The MagicTile groupe "elliptic sp=
here" is now=20
completely solved !

=C2=A0

The last not solved puzzle was =

eb_MT_ell_sph_cube_fev111 (Sup=
er=20
Chop)

=C2=A0

It took me=C2=A056672 twists.div>
=C2=A0

Here is an illustration of the puzzle =
near=20
finishing:

/MagicTile/eb_MT_ell_sph_cube_fev111.PNG" target=3D"_blank">http://www.baum=
anneduard.ch/MagicTile/eb_MT_ell_sph_c=
ube_fev111.PNG

=C2=A0

In the next groupe "elliptic proj=
ective" there are=20
14 unsolved puzzles.

=C2=A0

Standings between Ed and Michael>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=20
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=20
Ed=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=20
Mike

ell=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=20
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 117=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=20
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 111

eucl=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=20
64=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0116

hyp=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0194=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0267

irp+skew=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=20
83=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 87

tot=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=20
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 458=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=20
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 581

=C2=A0

Best regards

Ed

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px">

----- Original Message -----

From:=20
l.com+[4D_Cubing]" target=3D"_blank">Melinda Green=20
melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]

To: ps.com" href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com" target=3D"_blank">4D_Cubi=
ng@yahoogroups.com

Sent:=
Tuesday, October 25, 2016 11:19=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile=20
Solving

=C2=A0=20

I hadn't considered simply avoiding the broken locations, thinking=
I was=20
going to need multiple versions for each rotation. Maybe I'll see if =
I can=20
just use set-up moves to use the locations that do work.

On 10/25/2016 1:4=
7 PM, 'Eduard Baumann' k-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:ed.baumann@bluewin.ch" target=3D"_blank">ed.b=
aumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing]=20
wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20

Ah.

I do it always with macros. Eventu=
ally they=20
work not at every place. In this case you must use the perhaps 50% work=
ing=20
places.

Best regards

Ed

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

IN-RIGHT:0px">

----- Original Message -----

From: le=3D"4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com" href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com%20=
[4D_Cubing]" target=3D"_blank">Melinda=20
Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]

To: groups.com" href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com" target=3D"_blank">4D_=
Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016=
10:32=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTi=
le=20
Solving

=C2=A0=20

Thanks for the encouragement, Ed. I started to do it but most of m=
y=20
macros didn't work and I really don't want to do it without t=
hem. Roice=20
understands the issue involving non-orientable puzzles but the fixes=
=20
(keeping track of orientation) appear more difficult than he's re=
ady to=20
take on at the moment.

Best,
-Melinda

On 10/25/2016 7:4=
6 AM, 'Eduard Baumann' k-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:ed.baumann@bluewin.ch" target=3D"_blank">ed.b=
aumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing] wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20

First 79 entries in the Mathol=
oger MT=20
Challenge Hall of Fame:

=C2=A0

Only 2 women !?=C2=A0 (Marie a=
nd=20
Marie-Chantal)

=C2=A0

Melinda please, change this we=
ard=20
statistics=C2=A0 ;-)

[At least three M's instea=
d of two=20
Marie's]

=C2=A0

Best regars

Ed

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

MARGIN-RIGHT:0px">

----- Original Message ----- >

From: title=3D"4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com" href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.co=
m%20[4D_Cubing]" target=3D"_blank">Melinda Green melinda@superliminal.com [=
4D_Cubing]=20

To: ahoogroups.com" href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2=
016=20
2:34 AM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: Mag=
icTile=20
Solving

=C2=A0=20

Thank you so much for breaking up the MT solutions wiki page! =
It=20
had gotten way out of control.

I bet Ed's 1M+ t=
wist=20
solution will strain a few things. It will be a great test case. =
Good=20
luck Ed!

Finally, congratulations on 100k+ video views. Th=
at=20
happened pretty quickly. Maybe even faster than the 4D=20
video.

Great stuff everyone!
-Melinda

On 10/22/2016=
9:37 AM, Roice Nelson iated" href=3D"mailto:roice3@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">roice3@gmail.com<=
/a> [4D_Cubing] wrote:

Super cool, both of you!=C2=A0 Ed, will=C2=A0t=
his be=20
the first solve you've done with >1M moves?=C2=A0 I can&=
#39;t recall=20
if there have been others.=20

An update on the Mathologer video and Klein bottle=20
challenge...=C2=A0 Last night, the=C2=A0video crossed 100,000 v=
iews,=20
which is pretty cool.=C2=A0 We have 25 slots left in the challe=
nge=20
at the moment, and solutions have slowed quite a bit.=C2=A0 The=
y are=20
currently coming in about one a day, so I'm guessing there =
will be=20
at least a few weeks (likely longer) before it is full.=C2=A0 I=
took=20
the challenge myself (solver #49) and it was great fun - more=20
difficult than I anticipated, with some surprising=20
configurations.=C2=A0 If you haven't tried it, try it.=C2=
=A0 You'll=20
be glad you did!

=3D"_blank">http://roice3.org/magictile/mathologer

I'm doing some wiki updates right now.=C2=A0 I've =
already split=20
the solutions page into 3 separate pages, and am working on get=
ting=20
the puzzle list up to date with the current set of puzzles.v>

Solutions" target=3D"_blank">http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTi=
le_v2_Solutions

Cheers,

Roice

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:02 AM, =
9;Eduard=20
Baumann' "_blank">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing] <f=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com" target=3D"_blank">4D_Cubing@yahoogro=
ups.com> wrote:

_quote">=EF=BB=BF=20

=

Hi Michael,

=C2=A0

Wow!

=C2=A0

Congratulations.<=
/div>

=C2=A0

Do you think that Mathol=
oger=20
Challenge hall of fame=C2=A0reaches 100 items?

=C2=A0

You are very economic.font>

=C2=A0

I'm solving ">MT ell isoca fev111=20
(Big Chop)" actually and I will reach about a millio=
n=20
turns.

=C2=A0

Best regards>

Ed

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

T:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px">

----- Original Message -----=
=20

From:<=
/b>=20
f@yahoo.com+[4D_Cubing]" target=3D"_blank">qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=

To: bing@yahoogroups.com" href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com" target=3D"_=
blank">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, Octob=
er 22,=20
2016 2:22 AM

Subject: [MC4D] Re:=20
MagicTile Solving

=C2=A0

ext">

Coming back with two huge but easy puzzles on {7,3}, and=
=20
cleaning up a lot of similar {4,4} puzzles (Torus/Klein/Ske=
w).=20

{4,4} Torus 8-color F0.33:0:1 - 364 turns

{4,4} Torus 8-Color F0:2:0 - 388 turns

{4,4} Torus 9-Color F0:2:0 - 260 turns

{4,4} Torus 16-Color F0:2:0 - 446 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0.33:0:1 - 312 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0:2:0 - 286 turns

{7,3} 24-Color F1.4:0:0 F1.6:0:0 V1.4:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 9=
477=20
turns

{7,3} 24-Color V1.3:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 2110=20
turns

{4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2:0 - 270 turns

{4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2:0 - 468 turns

{4,4|5} 25-Color F0:2:0 - 1178 turns

{4,4|6} 36-Color F0:2:0 - 1402 turns

{4,4|7} 49-Color F0:2:0 - 2946 turns

-- Michael=20
Gottlieb

ockquote>

<=
/div>

e>

--94eb2c0947b857ec8c053fe01bc8--

From: "Eduard Baumann" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2016 09:40:36 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_002B_01D23291.ACC1E280
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Wow!

In this case I retire later ;-)

Ed
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Roice Nelson roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 2:27 AM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20

Ed et al.,=20

Thanks again for pushing the boundaries of MagicTile.

I just finished adding 45 new spherical puzzles, a number of new slicings=
of the platonic solids and five new "orbifold" colorings (I'm thinking I m=
ay move the orbifolds to their own folder). I also update the wiki with bl=
ank spaces for all the new puzzles. The total number of puzzles in MagicTi=
le now lists as 856. I tried to make the new puzzles interesting, but if a=
ny of them seem ugly, let me know and I'll remove them.

Enjoy!
Roice

On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 5:17 PM, Roice Nelson wrote:

That's awesome Ed, congrats to you and the other solvers!!

It sounds like I need to configure some more sphere puzzle slicings thi=
s weekend :D Maybe there is even another coloring akin to the {3,5} 8-Colo=
r puzzle waiting to be discovered.

Cheers,
Roice

On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 5:07 PM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bluewin.ch=
[4D_Cubing] <4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20

The MagicTile groupe "elliptic sphere" is now completely solved !

The last not solved puzzle was=20
eb_MT_ell_sph_cube_fev111 (Super Chop)

It took me 56672 twists.

Here is an illustration of the puzzle near finishing:
http://www.baumanneduard.ch/MagicTile/eb_MT_ell_sph_cube_fev111.PNG

In the next groupe "elliptic projective" there are 14 unsolved puzzle=
s.

Standings between Ed and Michael

Ed Mike
ell 117 111
eucl 64 116
hyp 194 267
irp+skew 83 87
tot 458 581

Best regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
I hadn't considered simply avoiding the broken locations, thinking =
I was going to need multiple versions for each rotation. Maybe I'll see if =
I can just use set-up moves to use the locations that do work.

On 10/25/2016 1:47 PM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_C=
ubing] wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20
Ah.
I do it always with macros. Eventually they work not at every pla=
ce. In this case you must use the perhaps 50% working places.
Best regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2016 10:32 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
Thanks for the encouragement, Ed. I started to do it but most o=
f my macros didn't work and I really don't want to do it without them. Roic=
e understands the issue involving non-orientable puzzles but the fixes (kee=
ping track of orientation) appear more difficult than he's ready to take on=
at the moment.

Best,
-Melinda

On 10/25/2016 7:46 AM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [=
4D_Cubing] wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20
First 79 entries in the Mathologer MT Challenge Hall of Fame:

Only 2 women !? (Marie and Marie-Chantal)

Melinda please, change this weard statistics ;-)
[At least three M's instead of two Marie's]

Best regars
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 2:34 AM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
Thank you so much for breaking up the MT solutions wiki pag=
e! It had gotten way out of control.

I bet Ed's 1M+ twist solution will strain a few things. It =
will be a great test case. Good luck Ed!

Finally, congratulations on 100k+ video views. That happene=
d pretty quickly. Maybe even faster than the 4D video.

Great stuff everyone!
-Melinda

On 10/22/2016 9:37 AM, Roice Nelson roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cu=
bing] wrote:

Super cool, both of you! Ed, will this be the first solv=
e you've done with >1M moves? I can't recall if there have been others.=20

An update on the Mathologer video and Klein bottle challe=
nge... Last night, the video crossed 100,000 views, which is pretty cool. =
We have 25 slots left in the challenge at the moment, and solutions have s=
lowed quite a bit. They are currently coming in about one a day, so I'm gu=
essing there will be at least a few weeks (likely longer) before it is full=
. I took the challenge myself (solver #49) and it was great fun - more dif=
ficult than I anticipated, with some surprising configurations. If you hav=
en't tried it, try it. You'll be glad you did!

http://roice3.org/magictile/mathologer

I'm doing some wiki updates right now. I've already spli=
t the solutions page into 3 separate pages, and am working on getting the p=
uzzle list up to date with the current set of puzzles.

http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_v2_Solutions

Cheers,
Roice

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:02 AM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baum=
ann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing] <4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20

Hi Michael,

Wow!

Congratulations.

Do you think that Mathologer Challenge hall of fame rea=
ches 100 items?

You are very economic.

I'm solving "MT ell isoca fev111 (Big Chop)" actually a=
nd I will reach about a million turns.

Best regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2016 2:22 AM
Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
Coming back with two huge but easy puzzles on {7,3}, =
and cleaning up a lot of similar {4,4} puzzles (Torus/Klein/Skew).=20

{4,4} Torus 8-color F0.33:0:1 - 364 turns
{4,4} Torus 8-Color F0:2:0 - 388 turns
{4,4} Torus 9-Color F0:2:0 - 260 turns
{4,4} Torus 16-Color F0:2:0 - 446 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0.33:0:1 - 312 turns
{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0:2:0 - 286 turns

{7,3} 24-Color F1.4:0:0 F1.6:0:0 V1.4:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - =
9477 turns
{7,3} 24-Color V1.3:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 2110 turns

{4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2:0 - 270 turns
{4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2:0 - 468 turns
{4,4|5} 25-Color F0:2:0 - 1178 turns
{4,4|6} 36-Color F0:2:0 - 1402 turns
{4,4|7} 49-Color F0:2:0 - 2946 turns

-- Michael Gottlieb

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_002B_01D23291.ACC1E280
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=EF=BB=BF

Wow!

In this case I retire later ;-)T>

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cubing]">Roice Nelson roice3@gmail.co=
m=20
[4D_Cubing]

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2016 2:2=
7=20
AM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile=
=20
Solving

=20

Ed et al.,

Thanks again for pushing the boundaries of MagicTile.

I just finished adding 45 new spherical puzzles, a number of new sli=
cings=20
of the platonic solids and five new "orbifold" colorings (I'm thinking I =
may=20
move the orbifolds to their own folder). I also update the href=3D"http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_Solutions_-_Elliptica=
l">wiki with=20
blank spaces for all the new puzzles. The total number of puzzles i=
n=20
MagicTile now lists as 856. I tried to make the new puzzles interes=
ting,=20
but if any of them seem ugly, let me know and I'll remove them.

Enjoy!

Roice

On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 5:17 PM, Roice Nelson PAN=20
dir=3Dltr>< target=3D_blank>roice3@gmail.com> wrote:

That's awesome Ed, congrats to you and the other solvers=
!!

It sounds like I need to configure some more sphere puzzle slicing=
s=20
this weekend :D Maybe there is even another coloring akin to the =
{3,5}=20
8-Color puzzle waiting to be discovered.

Cheers,

Roice

On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 5:07 PM, 'Eduard Bauma=
nn' href=3D"mailto:ed.baumann@bluewin.ch" target=3D_blank>ed.baumann@bluewi=
n.ch=20
[4D_Cubing] <.com"=20
target=3D_blank>4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

=
=EF=BB=BF=20

The MagicTile groupe "elliptic spher=
e" is now=20
completely solved !

The last not solved puzzle was T>

eb_MT_ell_sph_cube_fev111 (S=
uper=20
Chop)

It took me 56672 twists.=

Here is an illustration of the puzzl=
e near=20
finishing:

href=3D"http://www.baumanneduard.ch/MagicTile/eb_MT_ell_sph_cube_fev1=
11.PNG"=20
target=3D_blank>http://www.baumanneduard.ch/MagicTile/ONT=20
color=3D#000000>eb_MT_ell_sph_cube_fev111.PNG>

In the next groupe "elliptic project=
ive"=20
there are 14 unsolved puzzles.

Standings between Ed and MichaelNT>

       =
;=20
           =20
Ed           =
=20
Mike

ell      &n=
bsp;=20
        117   =20
        111

face=3DArial>eucl        &nbs=
p;    =20
64           &=
nbsp; 116

face=3DArial>hyp         =
;      194      =
;     267

irp+skew    &nb=
sp; =20
83            87<=
/DIV>

tot      &n=
bsp;=20
        458   =20
        581

Best regards

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIG=
HT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

From: <=
A=20
title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com+[4D_Cubing]" target=3D_blan=
k>Melinda=20
Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubing]

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogro=
ups.com"=20
target=3D_blank>4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2=
016=20
11:19 PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: Magi=
cTile=20
Solving

=20

I hadn't considered simply avoiding the broken locations, thinki=
ng I=20
was going to need multiple versions for each rotation. Maybe I'll s=
ee if=20
I can just use set-up moves to use the locations that do=20
work.

fix>On=20
10/25/2016 1:47 PM, 'Eduard Baumann' class=3Dm_8052373991342606002m_8593938647516091335moz-txt-link-abbr=
eviated=20
href=3D"mailto:ed.baumann@bluewin.ch"=20
target=3D_blank>ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing] wrote:
IV>

=EF=BB=BF=20

Ah.

I do it always with macros. Even=
tually=20
they work not at every place. In this case you must use the perha=
ps=20
50% working places.

Best regards

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN=
-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message ----- DIV>

From:B> title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com%20[4D_Cubing]"=20
target=3D_blank>Melinda Green melinda@superliminal.com [4D_Cubi=
ng]=20

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"=20
target=3D_blank>4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, October 2=
5, 2016=20
10:32 PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re:=
=20
MagicTile Solving

=20

Thanks for the encouragement, Ed. I started to do it but mos=
t of=20
my macros didn't work and I really don't want to do it without =
them.=20
Roice understands the issue involving non-orientable puzzles bu=
t the=20
fixes (keeping track of orientation) appear more difficult than=
he's=20
ready to take on at the moment.

Best,
-Melinda
>

class=3Dm_8052373991342606002m_8593938647516091335moz-cite-pref=
ix>On=20
10/25/2016 7:46 AM, 'Eduard Baumann' class=3Dm_8052373991342606002m_8593938647516091335moz-txt-link-=
abbreviated=20
href=3D"mailto:ed.baumann@bluewin.ch"=20
target=3D_blank>ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing] wrote:>

=EF=BB=BF=20

First 79 entries in the Math=
ologer MT=20
Challenge Hall of Fame:

Only 2 women !? (Marie=
and=20
Marie-Chantal)

Melinda please, change this =
weard=20
statistics ;-)

[At least three M's instead =
of two=20
Marie's]

Best regars

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MA=
RGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message ----=
-=20

Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com%20[4D_Cubing]"=20
target=3D_blank>Melinda Green melinda@superliminal.com=20
[4D_Cubing]

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"=20
target=3D_blank>4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, Octobe=
r 23,=20
2016 2:34 AM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] =
Re:=20
MagicTile Solving

=20

xt>

Thank you so much for breaking up the MT solutions wiki =
page!=20
It had gotten way out of control.

I bet Ed's =
1M+=20
twist solution will strain a few things. It will be a great=
test=20
case. Good luck Ed!

Finally, congratulations on 100k=
+=20
video views. That happened pretty quickly. Maybe even faste=
r=20
than the 4D video.

Great stuff=20
everyone!
-Melinda

class=3Dm_8052373991342606002m_8593938647516091335moz-cite-=
prefix>On=20
10/22/2016 9:37 AM, Roice Nelson class=3Dm_8052373991342606002m_8593938647516091335moz-txt-l=
ink-abbreviated=20
href=3D"mailto:roice3@gmail.com"=20
target=3D_blank>roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cubing] wrote:
=

Super cool, both of you! Ed, will&nb=
sp;this=20
be the first solve you've done with >1M moves? I=
=20
can't recall if there have been others.=20

An update on the Mathologer video and Klein bottle=20
challenge... Last night, the video crossed 100=
,000=20
views, which is pretty cool. We have 25 slots left =
in=20
the challenge at the moment, and solutions have slowed qu=
ite a=20
bit. They are currently coming in about one a day, =
so=20
I'm guessing there will be at least a few weeks (likely=20
longer) before it is full. I took the challenge mys=
elf=20
(solver #49) and it was great fun - more difficult than I=
=20
anticipated, with some surprising configurations. I=
f you=20
haven't tried it, try it. You'll be glad you did!DIV>

target=3D_blank>http://roice3.org/magictile/matholog=
er

I'm doing some wiki updates right now. I've al=
ready=20
split the solutions page into 3 separate pages, and am wo=
rking=20
on getting the puzzle list up to date with the current se=
t of=20
puzzles.

href=3D"http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/MagicTile_v2_So=
lutions"=20
target=3D_blank>http://wiki.superliminal.com/wiki/Ma=
gicTile_v2_Solutions

Cheers,

Roice

On Sat, Oct 22, 2016 at 4:02 AM,=
=20
'Eduard Baumann' =20
target=3D_blank>ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing] AN=20
dir=3Dltr><"=20
target=3D_blank>4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com>=
=20
wrote:

class=3Dgmail_quote>=EF=BB=BF=20

bgcolor=3D"#ffffff">

Hi Michael,V>

Wow!

Congratulations.>

Do you think that Math=
ologer=20
Challenge hall of fame reaches 100 items?DIV>

You are very=20
economic.

I'm solving "MT ell=
isoca=20
fev111 (Big Chop)" actually and I will reach about =
a=20
million turns.

Best regardsIV>

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5=
px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Messag=
e -----=20

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4">Fr=
om:=20
href=3D"mailto:qqwref@yahoo.com+[4D_Cubing]"=20
target=3D_blank>qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing] V>

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"=20
target=3D_blank>4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday=
,=20
October 22, 2016 2:22 AM

Subject: [MC4D=
] Re:=20
MagicTile Solving

id=3Dm_8052373991342606002m_8593938647516091335m_4120=
649644562483535ygrp-text>

Coming back with two huge but easy puzzles on {7,3=
},=20
and cleaning up a lot of similar {4,4} puzzles=20
(Torus/Klein/Skew).

{4,4} Torus 8-color F0.33:0:1 - 364 turns

{4,4} Torus 8-Color F0:2:0 - 388 turns

{4,4} Torus 9-Color F0:2:0 - 260 turns

{4,4} Torus 16-Color F0:2:0 - 446 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0.33:0:1 - 312 turns

{4,4} Klein 9-Color F0:2:0 - 286 turns

{7,3} 24-Color F1.4:0:0 F1.6:0:0 V1.4:0:0 V1.6:0=
:0 -=20
9477 turns

{7,3} 24-Color V1.3:0:0 V1.6:0:0 - 2110=20
turns

{4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2:0 - 270 turns

{4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2:0 - 468 turns

{4,4|5} 25-Color F0:2:0 - 1178 turns

{4,4|6} 36-Color F0:2:0 - 1402 turns

{4,4|7} 49-Color F0:2:0 - 2946 turns

-- Michael=20
Gottlieb

R>

>

OCKQUOTE>

width=3D"1">

IV>

------=_NextPart_000_002B_01D23291.ACC1E280--

From: qqwref@yahoo.com
Date: 03 Nov 2016 19:31:27 -0700
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

From: qqwref@yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2016 09:47:47 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

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Hi,

I think you are Mike.

For me 100 or 5000 scramble doesn't matter. I'm able to to a 700'000 twist =
solving after a 100 scramble ;-)

Yes, I have restarted solving others than elliptic.
For the moment I have 30 solvings not yet entered in the hall of fame.

Kind regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 3:31 AM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
Wow Ed, you're crazy :p I think I can do the Super Chop without too much =
trouble but some of the others are very nasty. Don't forget the Projective =
Plane ones, I bet a lot of your algorithms still work there... I'm going to=
try some Elliptical ones next because of the new update (thanks Roice!)

I solved all the remaining {10,3} puzzles I know how to do. It took quite=
a while. Note that I didn't beat a lot of the existing movecounts, but I t=
hink most of that is because of scramble length. I've been using 5000 and i=
f anyone did solves with, say, 100 or 500, they would get easier scrambles =
(pieces closer to the solved position on average) because it takes so many =
twists to get a piece to move around the puzzle.

{10,3} 6-Color (Non-Orientable) F0.67:0:1 V1:0:0 - 600 twists
{10,3} 12-Color (Dodecahedron) E1.75:0:0 - 1580 twists
{10,3} 12-Color (Dodecahedron) V2:0:0 - 727 twists

{10,3 } 12-Color (Dodecahedron) F0.67:0:1 V1:0:0 - 1039 twists

{10,3} 12-Color (Dodecahedron) E1:0:0 V1:0:0 - 959 twists

{10,3} 18-Color E1.4:0:0 - 2212 twists
{10,3} 18-Color E1.75:0:0 - 3322 twists
{10,3} 18-Color V2:0:0 - 1235 twists
{10,3} 18-Color F0.67:0:1 V1:0:0 - 2396 twists
{10,3} 18-Color E1:0:0 V1:0:0 - 2442 twists

{10,3} 36-Color E1.4:0:0 - 4672 twists
{10,3} 36-Color E1.75:0:0 - 8750 twists
{10,3} 36-Color V2:0:0 - 3247 twists
{10,3} 36-Color F0.67:0:1 V1:0:0 - 4753 twists
{10,3} 36-Color E1:0:0 V1:0:0 - 4897 twists

=20=20
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=EF=BB=BF

Hi,

I think you are Mike.

For me 100 or 5000 scramble doesn't matter=
. I'm=20
able to to a 700'000 twist solving after a 100 scramble ;-)

Yes, I have restarted solving others than=
=20
elliptic.

For the moment I have 30 solvings not yet =
entered=20
in the hall of fame.

Kind regards

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]">qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=
=20

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 3:=
31=20
AM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile=
=20
Solving

=20

Wow Ed, you're crazy :p I think I can do the Super Chop without too mu=
ch=20
trouble but some of the others are very nasty. Don't forget the Projectiv=
e=20
Plane ones, I bet a lot of your algorithms still work there... I'm going =
to=20
try some Elliptical ones next because of the new update (thanks Roice!)

I solved all the remaining {10,3} puzzles I know how to do. It took =
quite=20
a while. Note that I didn't beat a lot of the existing movecounts, but I =
think=20
most of that is because of scramble length. I've been using 5000 and if a=
nyone=20
did solves with, say, 100 or 500, they would get easier scrambles (pieces=
=20
closer to the solved position on average) because it takes so many twists=
to=20
get a piece to move around the puzzle.

{10,3} 6-Color (Non-Orientable) F0.67:0:1 V1:0:0 - 600 twists

{10,3} 12-Color (Dodecahedron) E1.75:0:0 - 1580 twists

{10,3} 12-Color (Dodecahedron) V2:0:0 - 727 twists

{10,3 } 12-Color (Dodecahedron) F0.67:0:1 V1:0:0 - 1039 twists
DIV>

{10,3} 12-Color (Dodecahedron) E1:0:0 V1:0:0 - 959 twists

{10,3} 18-Color E1.4:0:0 - 2212 twists

{10,3} 18-Color E1.75:0:0 - 3322 twists
{10,3} 18-Color V2:0:0 - =
1235=20
twists
{10,3} 18-Color F0.67:0:1 V1:0:0 - 2396 twists
{10,3} 18-Col=
or=20
E1:0:0 V1:0:0 - 2442 twists

{10,3} 36-Color E1.4:0:0 - 4672 twists

{10,3} 36-Color E1.75:0:0 - 8750 twists
{10,3} 36-Color V2:0:0 - =
3247=20
twists
{10,3} 36-Color F0.67:0:1 V1:0:0 - 4753 twists
{10,3} 36-Col=
or=20
E1:0:0 V1:0:0 - 4897 twists

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From: qqwref@yahoo.com
Date: 04 Nov 2016 07:16:32 -0700
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

From: qqwref@yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2016 15:20:26 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

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okay
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
Maybe you misunderstand me. Some puzzles just take a lot of moves to be p=
roperly scrambled, so if you use 100 moves you get a much easier scramble t=
han 1000+, just like 10 moves is easier than 100. Of course for puzzles lik=
e Cube Super Chop where each move affects half of the puzzle 100 is more th=
an enough, but when each move affects a tiny fraction of the pieces, you ar=
e solving most of the puzzle intuitively, it's very noticeable.=20

Imagine in a non-orientable puzzle it takes 30 moves to flip a corner - n=
ow you do a 100 move scramble. At most 3 corners can be flipped in place, b=
ut with a random scramble, you could have half of them that way. {10,3} 36-=
Color E1:0:0 is a simple puzzle that is a great example of this. Do a 100-m=
ove scramble, screenshot it, now do a 5000-move scramble. The difference sh=
ould be very clear :)

--Michael

=20=20
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=EF=BB=BF

okay

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]">qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=
=20

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Friday, November 04, 2016 3:=
16=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile=
=20
Solving

=20

Maybe you misunderstand me. Some puzzles just take a lot of moves to b=
e=20
properly scrambled, so if you use 100 moves you get a much easier scrambl=
e=20
than 1000+, just like 10 moves is easier than 100. Of course for puzzles =
like=20
Cube Super Chop where each move affects half of the puzzle 100 is more th=
an=20
enough, but when each move affects a tiny fraction of the pieces, you are=
=20
solving most of the puzzle intuitively, it's very noticeable.

Imagine in a non-orientable puzzle it takes 30 moves to flip a corne=
r -=20
now you do a 100 move scramble. At most 3 corners can be flipped in place=
, but=20
with a random scramble, you could have half of them that way. {10,3} 36-C=
olor=20
E1:0:0 is a simple puzzle that is a great example of this. Do a 100-move=
=20
scramble, screenshot it, now do a 5000-move scramble. The difference shou=
ld be=20
very clear :)

--Michael

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From: qqwref@yahoo.com
Date: 04 Nov 2016 21:32:52 -0700
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

From: qqwref@yahoo.com
Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2016 13:19:06 -0500
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

--94eb2c190d8a97fb35054091d3ac
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Thanks for reporting that orbifold puzzle issue Michael. It ended up being
a one-line fix, though it took about an hour for me to wrap my head around
:) I needed to disallow certain slicemasks that are ill-defined, depending
on the
orientations of identified antipodal twist. The latest download
should behave better.

Cheers,
Roice

On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 11:32 PM, qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing] <
4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>
>
> Hey Roice, in the version I have (10-29-16) some of the puzzles in {3,4}
> 4-Color Orbifold A are broken, specifically V1:0:0, F0:1:0 V1:0:0, F0:0:0=
.8
> V0.8:0:0, and F0:1:0 E0.5:0:0 V1:0:0. It seems like when you hold the 2 k=
ey
> and do turns around certain vertices, the colors mess up. This can lead t=
o
> either trivial or impossible puzzles when scrambled.
>
> BTW, Ed, I don't mean any offense, I was just making an observation.
>
> --Michael
>
>=20
>

--94eb2c190d8a97fb35054091d3ac
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Thanks for reporting that orbifold puzzle issue Michael.=
=C2=A0 It ended up being a one-line fix, though it took about an hour for m=
e to wrap my head around :) =C2=A0I needed to disallow certain slicemasks t=
hat are ill-defined, depending on the
orientations of identified antipod=
al twist. The latest download should=C2=A0behave better.

>Cheers,
Roice

ss=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 11:32 PM, f@yahoo.com">qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing] <=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com" target=3D"_blank">4D_Cubing@yahoogrou=
ps.com> wrote:
margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20

Hey Roice, in the version I have (10-29-16) some of the puzzles in {3,=
4} 4-Color Orbifold A are broken, specifically V1:0:0, F0:1:0 V1:0:0, F0:0:=
0.8 V0.8:0:0, and F0:1:0 E0.5:0:0 V1:0:0. It seems like when you hold the 2=
key and do turns around certain vertices, the colors mess up. This can lea=
d to either trivial or impossible puzzles when scrambled.

iv>BTW, Ed, I don't mean any offense, I was just making an observation.=

--Michael

--94eb2c190d8a97fb35054091d3ac--

From: qqwref@yahoo.com
Date: 14 Nov 2016 22:09:38 -0800
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

From: qqwref@yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2016 15:43:27 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

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Wow!

The "non stopping Mike".

I try to follow:

08/11/16 eb_MT_ell_sph_circle_cube.xml =
847 twists

13/11/16 eb_MT_hyp_G4GX_{10,4}_6_no_f001.xml =
248 twists

12/11/16 eb_MT_hyp_G4GX_{10,4}_6_no_f101_e100.xml =
1022 twists

12/11/16 eb_MT_hyp_G4GX_{10,4}_6_no_f101_v1,5-0-0.xml =
1349 twists

13/11/16 eb_MT_hyp_G4GX_{10,4}_8_f101_e100.xml =
1030 twists

13/11/16 eb_MT_hyp_G4GX_{10,4}_CB_f101_v1,5-0-0.xml =
1818 twists

14/11/16 eb_MT_hyp_G4GX_{4,10}_5_no_v1,35-0-0.xml =
31189 twists

04/10/12 eb_MT_hyp_KQ_{3,7}_56_V_0-0-1.xml =
200 twists

10/11/16 eb_MT_proj_hemi_octa_e010_v001.xml =
156 twists

hyp_G4GX_{4,10}_5_no_v1,35-0-0 is a first solve. It was hard to find a 3-c=
icle for the cornerfaces.

I have still to put these 9 solvings in "hall of fame".

Best regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
Finishing many of my remaining Elliptical puzzles - by my count I have 13=
spheres and 4 projective planes unsolved.

Octahedron Super Chop (F2:0:0 E2:0:0 V2:0:0) - 638 twists
Icosahedron V0:2:1 - 780 twists
Cube Super Chop (F1:0:1 E1:0:1 V1:0:1) - 683 twists
Dodecahedron Bauhinia Dodecahedron (V2:0:0) - 805 twists
Dodecahedron V0:1:0.5 - 1117 twists
Hemi-Octahedron F0:2:0 E0:1:0 V0:0:1 - 270 twists
Hemi-Icosahedron F0:2:0 - 694 twists
Hemi-Icosahedron F0.33:0:1 - 614 twists
Hemi-Icosahedron F0.55:0:1 - 553 twists
Hemi-Icosahedron V2:0:0 - 263 twists
Hemi-Cube E0:1.33:0 - 247 twists
Hemi-Cube E0:1:0 V0:0:1 - 149 twists
Hemi-Dodecahedron F0:2:0 - 273 twists
Hemi-Dodecahedron E0:1:0.11 - 458 twists
Hemi-Dodecahedron V2:0:0 - 367 twists
Hemi-Dodecahedron V0:1:0.5 - 490 twists
Hemi-Dodecahedron V2:0:1 - 314 twists
Hemi-Dodecahedron E0:1:0 V0:0:1 - 830 twists

=20=20
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=EF=BB=BF

Wow!

face=3DArial>

The "non stopping Mike".

face=3DArial>

I try to follow:

<=
FONT size=3D2=20
face=3DArial>

face=3D"Times New Roman">08/11/16style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
eb_MT_ell_sph_circle_cube.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 2">        =
           =20
style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
847 twists

face=3D"Times New Roman">13/11/16style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
eb_MT_hyp_G4GX_{10,4}_6_no_f001.xml=
=20
style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
            &nb=
sp;         =20
248 twists

face=3D"Times New Roman">12/11/16style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
eb_MT_hyp_G4GX_{10,4}_6_no_f101_e100.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">       N=20
style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
1022 twists

face=3D"Times New Roman">12/11/16style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
eb_MT_hyp_G4GX_{10,4}_6_no_f101_v1,5-0-0.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
1349 twists

face=3D"Times New Roman">13/11/16style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
eb_MT_hyp_G4GX_{10,4}_8_f101_e100.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
      =20
style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
1030 twists

face=3D"Times New Roman">13/11/16style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
eb_MT_hyp_G4GX_{10,4}_CB_f101_v1,5-0-0.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">    style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
1818 twists

face=3D"Times New Roman">14/11/16style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
eb_MT_hyp_G4GX_{4,10}_5_no_v1,35-0-0.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">       N=20
style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
31189 twists

face=3D"Times New Roman">04/10/12style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
eb_MT_hyp_KQ_{3,7}_56_V_0-0-1.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">       N=20
style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
200 twists
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-=
family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: FR; mso-fareast-language: DE;=
mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"=20
lang=3DFR>10/11/16style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
eb_MT_proj_hemi_octa_e010_v001.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        N>style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
156 twists=3D2>size=3D2 face=3DArial>NT>

hyp_G4GX_{4,10}_5_no_v1,35-0-0 is a first solv=
e.=20
It was hard to find a 3-cicle for the cornerfaces.

I have still to put these 9 solvings in "hall of=20
fame".

Best regards

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]">qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=
=20

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 7=
:09=20
AM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile=
=20
Solving

=20

Finishing many of my remaining Elliptical puzzles - by my count I have=
13=20
spheres and 4 projective planes unsolved.

Octahedron Super Chop (F2:0:0 E2:0:0 V2:0:0) - 638 twists
Icosahe=
dron=20
V0:2:1 - 780 twists
Cube Super Chop (F1:0:1 E1:0:1 V1:0:1) - 683=20
twists

Dodecahedron Bauhinia Dodecahedron (V2:0:0) - 805 twists
Dodecahe=
dron=20
V0:1:0.5 - 1117 twists

Hemi-Octahedron F0:2:0 E0:1:0 V0:0:1 - 270 twists
Hemi-Icosahedro=
n=20
F0:2:0 - 694 twists
Hemi-Icosahedron F0.33:0:1 - 614=20
twists
Hemi-Icosahedron F0.55:0:1 - 553 twists

Hemi-Icosahedron V2:0:0 - 263 twists

Hemi-Cube E0:1.33:0 - 247 twists
Hemi-Cube E0:1:0 V0:0:1 - 149=20
twists
Hemi-Dodecahedron F0:2:0 - 273 twists
Hemi-Dodecahedron E0:1=
:0.11=20
- 458 twists
Hemi-Dodecahedron V2:0:0 - 367 twists

Hemi-Dodecahedron V0:1:0.5 - 490 twists
Hemi-Dodecahedron V2:0:1 =
- 314=20
twists
Hemi-Dodecahedron E0:1:0 V0:0:1 - 830 twists

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From: "Eduard Baumann" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 01:13:07 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

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Great!
Go for the one-thousand puzzle mark

I personnaly don't like much the puzzles with less than 10 colors.

Kind regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: Roice Nelson roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2016 11:04 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20

You two are both incredible! I can barely keep up configuring enough new=
puzzles for you!

I'd like to do another big round of configuring soonish, to hit the one-t=
housand puzzle mark, but what should I focus on? I could, for example, add=
Gigaminx-like and Teraminx-like slicings to a bunch of euclidean and hyper=
bolic puzzles, or I could focus on adding new hyperbolic colorings, or some=
thing else. I don't want to just add a bunch of really hard puzzles - I'd =
like them to be fun. Any opinion on puzzles you'd like to see?

Roice

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 8:43 AM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [=
4D_Cubing] <4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF=20

Wow!

The "non stopping Mike".

I try to follow:

08/11/16 eb_MT_ell_sph_circle_cube.xml =
847 twists

13/11/16 eb_MT_hyp_G4GX_{10,4}_6_no_f001.xml =
248 twists

12/11/16 eb_MT_hyp_G4GX_{10,4}_6_no_f101_e100.xml =
1022 twists

12/11/16 eb_MT_hyp_G4GX_{10,4}_6_no_f101_v1,5-0-0.xml =
1349 twists

13/11/16 eb_MT_hyp_G4GX_{10,4}_8_f101_e100.xml =
1030 twists

13/11/16 eb_MT_hyp_G4GX_{10,4}_CB_f101_v1,5-0-0.xml =
1818 twists

14/11/16 eb_MT_hyp_G4GX_{4,10}_5_no_v1,35-0-0.xml =
31189 twists

04/10/12 eb_MT_hyp_KQ_{3,7}_56_V_0-0-1.xml =
200 twists

10/11/16 eb_MT_proj_hemi_octa_e010_v001.xml =
156 twists

hyp_G4GX_{4,10}_5_no_v1,35-0-0 is a first solve. It was hard to find a=
3-cicle for the cornerfaces.

I have still to put these 9 solvings in "hall of fame".

Best regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2016 7:09 AM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
Finishing many of my remaining Elliptical puzzles - by my count I hav=
e 13 spheres and 4 projective planes unsolved.=20

Octahedron Super Chop (F2:0:0 E2:0:0 V2:0:0) - 638 twists
Icosahedron V0:2:1 - 780 twists
Cube Super Chop (F1:0:1 E1:0:1 V1:0:1) - 683 twists
Dodecahedron Bauhinia Dodecahedron (V2:0:0) - 805 twists
Dodecahedron V0:1:0.5 - 1117 twists
Hemi-Octahedron F0:2:0 E0:1:0 V0:0:1 - 270 twists
Hemi-Icosahedron F0:2:0 - 694 twists
Hemi-Icosahedron F0.33:0:1 - 614 twists
Hemi-Icosahedron F0.55:0:1 - 553 twists
Hemi-Icosahedron V2:0:0 - 263 twists
Hemi-Cube E0:1.33:0 - 247 twists
Hemi-Cube E0:1:0 V0:0:1 - 149 twists
Hemi-Dodecahedron F0:2:0 - 273 twists
Hemi-Dodecahedron E0:1:0.11 - 458 twists
Hemi-Dodecahedron V2:0:0 - 367 twists
Hemi-Dodecahedron V0:1:0.5 - 490 twists
Hemi-Dodecahedron V2:0:1 - 314 twists
Hemi-Dodecahedron E0:1:0 V0:0:1 - 830 twists

=20=20
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charset="UTF-8"
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=EF=BB=BF

Great!

Go for the Roman">=20
one-thousand puzz=
le=20
mark

I personnaly don't like much the puzzles w=
ith less=20
than 10 colors.

Kind regards

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cubing]">Roice Nelson roice3@gmail.co=
m=20
[4D_Cubing]

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2016=
11:04=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile=
=20
Solving

=20

You two are both incredible! I can barely keep up=20
configuring enough new puzzles for you!

I'd like to do another big round of configuring soonish, to hit the=
=20
one-thousand puzzle mark, but what should I focus on? I could, for=
=20
example, add Gigaminx-like and Teraminx-like slicings to a bunch of=20
euclidean and hyperbolic puzzles, or I could focus on adding new=20
hyperbolic colorings, or something else. I don't want to just add a=
=20
bunch of really hard puzzles - I'd like them to be fun. Any opinion=
on=20
puzzles you'd like to see?

Roice

On Tue, Nov 15, 2016 at 8:43 AM, 'Eduard Baumann=
' href=3D"mailto:ed.baumann@bluewin.ch">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubin=
g]=20
< target=3D_blank>4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

=EF=
=BB=BF=20

Wow!

face=3DArial>

The "non stopping Mike".

face=3DArial>

I try to follow:

NT> size=3D2 face=3DArial>

T=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">08/11/16     &n=
bsp;         =20
eb_MT_ell_sph_circle_cube.xml    =
            &nb=
sp;  =20
         &nbs=
p;     =20
         &nbs=
p;     =20
847 twists

T=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">13/11/16     &n=
bsp;         =20
eb_MT_hyp_G4GX_{10,4}_6_no_f001.xml =20
         &nbs=
p;            &=
nbsp;       =20
248 twists

T=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">12/11/16     &n=
bsp;         =20
eb_MT_hyp_G4GX_{10,4}_6_no_f101_e100.xml  &=
nbsp;   =20
         &nbs=
p;     =20
1022 twists

T=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">12/11/16     &n=
bsp;         =20
eb_MT_hyp_G4GX_{10,4}_6_no_f101_v1,5-0-0.xml &nb=
sp;           &=
nbsp; =20
1349 twists

T=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">13/11/16     &n=
bsp;         =20
eb_MT_hyp_G4GX_{10,4}_8_f101_e100.xml  &nbs=
p;           =20
         &nbs=
p;     =20
1030 twists

T=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">13/11/16     &n=
bsp;         =20
eb_MT_hyp_G4GX_{10,4}_CB_f101_v1,5-0-0.xml  =
; =20
         &nbs=
p;     =20
1818 twists

T=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">14/11/16     &n=
bsp;         =20
eb_MT_hyp_G4GX_{4,10}_5_no_v1,35-0-0.xml  &=
nbsp;   =20
         &nbs=
p;     =20
31189 twists

T=20
face=3D"Times New Roman">04/10/12     &n=
bsp;         =20
eb_MT_hyp_KQ_{3,7}_56_V_0-0-1.xml   &n=
bsp;  =20
         &nbs=
p;     =20
         &nbs=
p;     =20
200 twists
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"=20
lang=3DFR>10/11/16        =
;       =20
eb_MT_proj_hemi_octa_e010_v001.xml   &=
nbsp;   =20
         &nbs=
p;     =20
         &nbs=
p;     =20
156 twists size=3D2> face=3DArial>

hyp_G4GX_{4,10}_5_no_v1,35-0-0 is a f=
irst=20
solve. It was hard to find a 3-cicle for the cornerfaces.IV>

I have still to put these 9 solvings in "hall of=20
fame".

Best regards

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT=
: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

From: =20
title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com href=3D"mailto:qqwref@yahoo.com+[4D=
_Cubing]"=20
target=3D_blank>qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]

To: title=3D4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroup=
s.com"=20
target=3D_blank>4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 20=
16 7:09=20
AM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicT=
ile=20
Solving

Finishing many of my remaining Elliptical puzzles - by my count I =
have=20
13 spheres and 4 projective planes unsolved.

Octahedron Super Chop (F2:0:0 E2:0:0 V2:0:0) - 638=20
twists
Icosahedron V0:2:1 - 780 twists
Cube Super Chop (F1:0:1=
=20
E1:0:1 V1:0:1) - 683 twists

Dodecahedron Bauhinia Dodecahedron (V2:0:0) - 805=20
twists
Dodecahedron V0:1:0.5 - 1117 twists

Hemi-Octahedron F0:2:0 E0:1:0 V0:0:1 - 270 twists
Hemi-Icosah=
edron=20
F0:2:0 - 694 twists
Hemi-Icosahedron F0.33:0:1 - 614=20
twists
Hemi-Icosahedron F0.55:0:1 - 553 twists

Hemi-Icosahedron V2:0:0 - 263 twists

Hemi-Cube E0:1.33:0 - 247 twists
Hemi-Cube E0:1:0 V0:0:1 - 14=
9=20
twists
Hemi-Dodecahedron F0:2:0 - 273 twists
Hemi-Dodecahedron=
=20
E0:1:0.11 - 458 twists
Hemi-Dodecahedron V2:0:0 - 367 twists

Hemi-Dodecahedron V0:1:0.5 - 490 twists
Hemi-Dodecahedron V2:=
0:1 -=20
314 twists
Hemi-Dodecahedron E0:1:0 V0:0:1 - 830 twists

width=3D"1">

------=_NextPart_000_0063_01D2406F.C29D4540--

From: qqwref@yahoo.com
Date: 16 Nov 2016 17:55:56 -0800
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

From: qqwref@yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2016 12:56:14 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_0061_01D2419B.25588420
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Mike and Roice,

I said that I don't like much the magictiles with few colors. I use a metho=
d where I compose a toolbox with 3-cycles for every piece type and orientee=
ring manoevres on place. In few color puzzles such 3-cycles often cannot be=
found. We enter the domain of very finite groups and this can be very hard=
. Do you know the Mathieu groupe m24? I takled this groupe in 2008. See htt=
p://www.baumanneduard.ch/m24%20aw%20table.txt, www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=
=3Dpuzzles-simple-groups-at-play

Some few color magictile can be solved whitout havy work with intuitive heu=
ristc technics. In the magictile "ell sph orbifold 3-4 4B f0-0-0,8 v0,8-0-0=
" I have the following situation. After 93 twists I'm finished with faces, =
corners and edges. I'm left with a 8-cycle of the tiny edge2 pieces. To bet=
ter understand things I change the settings to "foundamental view only". He=
re it is not easy to see that there are only 8 different edge2 pieces. On t=
he other hand we have only 2 different corners with 2*3 twists and 4 faces =
with 4*2 twists. That are 14 twists only. I have macro which can do a doubl=
e edge2 exchange (4 pieces involved). What I can do now is: try all 14 setu=
ps to my macro and note the resulting permutations, generate with those all=
possible permutations, find the 8-cycle with which I was left. Conclusion:=
Mike, you have solved this puzzle with very few twists, how are you workin=
g ?? Without help of programming ??

Kind regards
Ed Baumann

------=_NextPart_000_0061_01D2419B.25588420
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charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

pe>

Hi=
Mike and=20
Roice,

I said that I don't like much the magictiles with few colors.=
I=20
use a method where I compose a toolbox with 3-cycles for every piece type a=
nd=20
orienteering manoevres on place. In few color puzzles such 3-cycles often c=
annot=20
be found. We enter the domain of very finite groups and this can be very ha=
rd.=20
Do you know the Mathieu groupe m24? I takled this groupe in 2008. See href=3D"http://www.baumanneduard.ch/m24%20aw%20table.txt">http://www.bauman=
neduard.ch/m24%20aw%20table.txt,=20
href=3D"http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=3Dpuzzles-simple-groups-at-play=
">www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=3Dpuzzles-simple-groups-at-play

Some few color magictile can be solved whitout havy work with intuitiv=
e=20
heuristc technics. In the magictile "ell sph orbifold 3-4 4B f0-0-0,8 v0,8-=
0-0"=20
I have the following situation. After 93 twists I'm finished with faces, co=
rners=20
and edges. I'm left with a 8-cycle of the tiny edge2 pieces. To better=20
understand things I change the settings to "foundamental view only". Here i=
t is=20
not easy to see that there are only 8 different edge2 pieces. On the other =
hand=20
we have only 2 different corners with 2*3 twists and 4 faces with 4*2 twist=
s.=20
That are 14 twists only. I have macro which can do a double edge2 exchange =
(4=20
pieces involved). What I can do now is: try all 14 setups to my macro and n=
ote=20
the resulting permutations, generate with those all possible permutations, =
find=20
the 8-cycle with which I was left. Conclusion: Mike, you have solved this p=
uzzle=20
with very few twists, how are you working ?? Without help of programming=20
??

Kind regards

Ed=20
Baumann

------=_NextPart_000_0061_01D2419B.25588420--

From: qqwref@yahoo.com
Date: 26 Nov 2016 13:38:59 -0800
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

From: qqwref@yahoo.com
Date: 04 Dec 2016 10:14:20 -0800
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

From: qqwref@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2016 21:24:58 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_0012_01D24E74.DF6D49A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Wow!
Congratulations!

I will never catch you, but I still play with great pleasure.

Best regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2016 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
21 Hyperbolic puzzles. By my count I'm over 700 now.

{3,7} Hyperbolic 56-Color E0:1:0 V0:0:1 - 2280 twists

{4,6} 6-Color E0:1:0 V0:0:1 - 424 twists

{5,4} 6-Color (Non-Orientable) V2:0:0 - 406 twists
{5,4} 12-Color (Non-Orientable) E0:1.22:0 - 1582 twists
{5,4} 12-Color (Non-Orientable) E0:0:1 - 2770 twists
{5,4} 12-Color (Non-Orientable) F0:0:1.3 - 427 twists
{5,4} 12-Color (Non-Orientable) V2:0:0 - 952 twists
{5,4} 24-Color E0:1:0 - 2404 twists
{5,4} 24-Color E0:1.22:0 - 3826 twists
{5,4} 24-Color E0:0:1 - 6452 twists
{5,4} 24-Color F0:0:1.3 - 1055 twists
{5,4} 24-Color V0:0:1 - 904 twists
{5,4} 24-Color V2:0:0 - 2556 twists

{5,5} 6-Color V1.33:0:0 - 56 twists
{5,5} 6-Color B V1.33:0:0 - 119 twists

{6,4} 8-Color E0:1.1:0 - 1450 twists

{8,3} 6-Color E0:1:0 - 1504 twists
{8,3} 6-Color V0:0:1 - 484 twists
{8,3} 12-Color V0:1:0 - 510 twists
{8,3} 12-Color B V0:1:0 - 549 twists
{8,3} 24-Color V0:1:0 - 1384 twists

=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_0012_01D24E74.DF6D49A0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=EF=BB=BF

Wow!

Congratulations!

I will never catch you, but I still play w=
ith great=20
pleasure.

Best regards

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]">qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=
=20

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2016 7:=
14=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile=
=20
Solving

=20

21 Hyperbolic puzzles. By my count I'm over 700 now.

{3,7} Hyperbolic 56-Color E0:1:0 V0:0:1 - 2280 twists

{4,6} 6-Color E0:1:0 V0:0:1 - 424 twists

{5,4} 6-Color (Non-Orientable) V2:0:0 - 406 twists

{5,4} 12-Color (Non-Orientable) E0:1.22:0 - 1582 twists

{5,4} 12-Color (Non-Orientable) E0:0:1 - 2770 twists

{5,4} 12-Color (Non-Orientable) F0:0:1.3 - 427 twists

{5,4} 12-Color (Non-Orientable) V2:0:0 - 952 twists

{5,4} 24-Color E0:1:0 - 2404 twists

{5,4} 24-Color E0:1.22:0 - 3826 twists

{5,4} 24-Color E0:0:1 - 6452 twists

{5,4} 24-Color F0:0:1.3 - 1055 twists

{5,4} 24-Color V0:0:1 - 904 twists

{5,4} 24-Color V2:0:0 - 2556 twists

{5,5} 6-Color V1.33:0:0 - 56 twists

{5,5} 6-Color B V1.33:0:0 - 119 twists

{6,4} 8-Color E0:1.1:0 - 1450 twists

{8,3} 6-Color E0:1:0 - 1504 twists

{8,3} 6-Color V0:0:1 - 484 twists

{8,3} 12-Color V0:1:0 - 510 twists

{8,3} 12-Color B V0:1:0 - 549 twists

{8,3} 24-Color V0:1:0 - 1384 twists

------=_NextPart_000_0012_01D24E74.DF6D49A0--

From: Roice Nelson <roice3@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2016 20:25:41 -0600
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

--001a113e45cef80efa0542f41eb8
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Awesome as usual!

I've been working in the background on another way to configure
identifications in MagicTile... supporting regular maps defined with
relations like these
.
The thousand puzzle barrier will be crossed soon :)

Thanks very much to both of you for your earlier feedback on what makes
good puzzles. I'm referring to it as I add more.

I'm also interested to know if you think any puzzles should be removed, say
because they are too inelegant/hard/whatever.

Cheers,
Roice

On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 2:24 PM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bluewin.ch
[4D_Cubing] <4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> =EF=BB=BF
>
>
> Wow!
> Congratulations!
>
> I will never catch you, but I still play with great pleasure.
>
> Best regards
> Ed
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]
> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Sunday, December 04, 2016 7:14 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving
>
>
>
> 21 Hyperbolic puzzles. By my count I'm over 700 now.
>
> {3,7} Hyperbolic 56-Color E0:1:0 V0:0:1 - 2280 twists
>
> {4,6} 6-Color E0:1:0 V0:0:1 - 424 twists
>
> {5,4} 6-Color (Non-Orientable) V2:0:0 - 406 twists
> {5,4} 12-Color (Non-Orientable) E0:1.22:0 - 1582 twists
> {5,4} 12-Color (Non-Orientable) E0:0:1 - 2770 twists
> {5,4} 12-Color (Non-Orientable) F0:0:1.3 - 427 twists
> {5,4} 12-Color (Non-Orientable) V2:0:0 - 952 twists
> {5,4} 24-Color E0:1:0 - 2404 twists
> {5,4} 24-Color E0:1.22:0 - 3826 twists
> {5,4} 24-Color E0:0:1 - 6452 twists
> {5,4} 24-Color F0:0:1.3 - 1055 twists
> {5,4} 24-Color V0:0:1 - 904 twists
> {5,4} 24-Color V2:0:0 - 2556 twists
>
> {5,5} 6-Color V1.33:0:0 - 56 twists
> {5,5} 6-Color B V1.33:0:0 - 119 twists
>
> {6,4} 8-Color E0:1.1:0 - 1450 twists
>
> {8,3} 6-Color E0:1:0 - 1504 twists
> {8,3} 6-Color V0:0:1 - 484 twists
> {8,3} 12-Color V0:1:0 - 510 twists
> {8,3} 12-Color B V0:1:0 - 549 twists
> {8,3} 24-Color V0:1:0 - 1384 twists
>
>
>
>=20
>

--001a113e45cef80efa0542f41eb8
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Awesome as usual!

I've been working=
in the background on another way to configure identifications in MagicTile=
... =C2=A0supporting regular maps defined with relations like tps://www.math.auckland.ac.nz/~conder/OrientableRegularMaps101.txt" target=
=3D"_blank">these.=C2=A0 The thousand puzzle barrier will be crossed so=
on :)

Thanks very much to both of you for your ear=
lier feedback on what makes good puzzles.=C2=A0 I'm referring to it as =
I add more.

I'm also interested to know if you=
think any puzzles should be removed, say because they are too inelegant/ha=
rd/whatever.

Cheers,
Roice
>

ote">On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 2:24 PM, 'Eduard Baumann' ilto:ed.baumann@bluewin.ch" target=3D"_blank">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D=
_Cubing] < target=3D"_blank">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex">

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
=EF=BB=BF

Wow!

Congratulations!

=C2=A0

I will never catch you, but I still pl=
ay with great=20
pleasure.

=C2=A0

Best regards

Ed

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px">

----- Original Message -----

From:=20
D_Cubing]" target=3D"_blank">qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=20

To: ps.com" href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com" target=3D"_blank">4D_Cubi=
ng@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December=
04, 2016 7:14=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile=20
Solving

=C2=A0=20

6659185m_3320346224878812088ygrp-text">

21 Hyperbolic puzzles. By my count I'm over 700 now.

{3,7} Hyperbolic 56-Color E0:1:0 V0:0:1 - 2280 twists

{4,6} 6-Color E0:1:0 V0:0:1 - 424 twists

{5,4} 6-Color (Non-Orientable) V2:0:0 - 406 twists

{5,4} 12-Color (Non-Orientable) E0:1.22:0 - 1582 twists

{5,4} 12-Color (Non-Orientable) E0:0:1 - 2770 twists

{5,4} 12-Color (Non-Orientable) F0:0:1.3 - 427 twists

{5,4} 12-Color (Non-Orientable) V2:0:0 - 952 twists

{5,4} 24-Color E0:1:0 - 2404 twists

{5,4} 24-Color E0:1.22:0 - 3826 twists

{5,4} 24-Color E0:0:1 - 6452 twists

{5,4} 24-Color F0:0:1.3 - 1055 twists

{5,4} 24-Color V0:0:1 - 904 twists

{5,4} 24-Color V2:0:0 - 2556 twists

{5,5} 6-Color V1.33:0:0 - 56 twists

{5,5} 6-Color B V1.33:0:0 - 119 twists

{6,4} 8-Color E0:1.1:0 - 1450 twists

{8,3} 6-Color E0:1:0 - 1504 twists

{8,3} 6-Color V0:0:1 - 484 twists

{8,3} 12-Color V0:1:0 - 510 twists

{8,3} 12-Color B V0:1:0 - 549 twists

{8,3} 24-Color V0:1:0 - 1384 twists

--001a113e45cef80efa0542f41eb8--

From: "Eduard Baumann" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 15:48:25 +0100
Subject: MagicTile Solving

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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Less productive than Mike
but still alive:

10 solvings

eb_MT_ell_sph_dodeca_v100_v1,5-0-0.xml 817 twists
eb_MT_ell_sph_{3,4}_4A_f010_eh00_v100.xml 314 twists
eb_MT_ell_sph_{3,4}_4B_f010_eh00_v100.xml 230 twists
eb_MT_ell_sph_{3,5}_4_f010_eh00_v100.xml 333 twists
eb_MT_eucl_klein_{4,4}_9_f020.xml 1844 twists
eb_MT_eucl_klein_{4,4}_9_v200.xml 2074 twists
eb_MT_eucl_torus_{3,6}_14_e010_v001.xml 350 twists
eb_MT_eucl_torus_{4,4}_16_f020.xml 1178 twists
eb_MT_eucl_torus_{4,4}_16_v200.xml 1248 twists
eb_MT_eucl_torus_{4,4}_9_v200.xml 2322 twists

Best regards
Ed
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>

Less productive than Mike

but still alive:

10 solvings

eb_MT_ell_sph_dodeca_v100_v1,5-0-0.xml&nbs=
p; =20
817 twists
eb_MT_ell_sph_{3,4}_4A_f010_eh00_v100.xml   314=20
twists
eb_MT_ell_sph_{3,4}_4B_f010_eh00_v100.xml   230=20
twists
eb_MT_ell_sph_{3,5}_4_f010_eh00_v100.xml   333=20
twists
eb_MT_eucl_klein_{4,4}_9_f020.xml   1844=20
twists
eb_MT_eucl_klein_{4,4}_9_v200.xml   2074=20
twists
eb_MT_eucl_torus_{3,6}_14_e010_v001.xml   350=20
twists
eb_MT_eucl_torus_{4,4}_16_f020.xml   1178=20
twists
eb_MT_eucl_torus_{4,4}_16_v200.xml   1248=20
twists
eb_MT_eucl_torus_{4,4}_9_v200.xml   2322 twists<=
/DIV>

Best regards

Ed

------=_NextPart_000_0005_01D24FD8.2E71DCF0--

From: Melinda Green <melinda@superliminal.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 02:02:48 -0800
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

--------------B18C230BF8C395F2ED82726A
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Very cool, Roice!

On 12/5/2016 6:25 PM, Roice Nelson roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cubing] wrote:
>
>
> Awesome as usual!
>
> I've been working in the background on another way to configure=20
> identifications in MagicTile... supporting regular maps defined with=20
> relations like these=20
> .=
=20=20
> The thousand puzzle barrier will be crossed soon :)
>
> Thanks very much to both of you for your earlier feedback on what=20
> makes good puzzles. I'm referring to it as I add more.
>
> I'm also interested to know if you think any puzzles should be=20
> removed, say because they are too inelegant/hard/whatever.
>
> Cheers,
> Roice
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 2:24 PM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bluewin.ch=20
> [4D_Cubing] <4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
> > wrote:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
>
>
> Wow!
> Congratulations!
> I will never catch you, but I still play with great pleasure.
> Best regards
> Ed
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]
>
> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
>
> *Sent:* Sunday, December 04, 2016 7:14 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving
>
> 21 Hyperbolic puzzles. By my count I'm over 700 now.
>
>
> {3,7} Hyperbolic 56-Color E0:1:0 V0:0:1 - 2280 twists
>
> {4,6} 6-Color E0:1:0 V0:0:1 - 424 twists
>
> {5,4} 6-Color (Non-Orientable) V2:0:0 - 406 twists
> {5,4} 12-Color (Non-Orientable) E0:1.22:0 - 1582 twists
> {5,4} 12-Color (Non-Orientable) E0:0:1 - 2770 twists
> {5,4} 12-Color (Non-Orientable) F0:0:1.3 - 427 twists
> {5,4} 12-Color (Non-Orientable) V2:0:0 - 952 twists
> {5,4} 24-Color E0:1:0 - 2404 twists
> {5,4} 24-Color E0:1.22:0 - 3826 twists
> {5,4} 24-Color E0:0:1 - 6452 twists
> {5,4} 24-Color F0:0:1.3 - 1055 twists
> {5,4} 24-Color V0:0:1 - 904 twists
> {5,4} 24-Color V2:0:0 - 2556 twists
>
> {5,5} 6-Color V1.33:0:0 - 56 twists
> {5,5} 6-Color B V1.33:0:0 - 119 twists
>
> {6,4} 8-Color E0:1.1:0 - 1450 twists
>
> {8,3} 6-Color E0:1:0 - 1504 twists
> {8,3} 6-Color V0:0:1 - 484 twists
> {8,3} 12-Color V0:1:0 - 510 twists
> {8,3} 12-Color B V0:1:0 - 549 twists
> {8,3} 24-Color V0:1:0 - 1384 twists
>
>
>
>
>
>
>=20

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">

Very cool, Roice!

On 12/5/2016 6:25 PM, Roice Nelson
">roice3@gmail.com [4D_Cubing] wrote:

cite=3D"mid:CAEMuGXoPDz0RPjM5nM_k9=3Dft7ASOo1-U0DZbhgu3Cwn5ROJp5A@mail.gmai=
l.com"
type=3D"cite">

Awesome as usual!

I've been working in the background on another way to
configure identifications in MagicTile... =C2=A0supporting regula=
r
maps defined with relations like href=3D"https://www.math.auckland.ac.nz/%7Econder/OrientableRegularMaps101.=
txt"
target=3D"_blank">these.=C2=A0 The thousand puzzle barrier =
will
be crossed soon :)

Thanks very much to both of you for your earlier feedback
on what makes good puzzles.=C2=A0 I'm referring to it as I add
more.

I'm also interested to know if you think any puzzles should
be removed, say because they are too inelegant/hard/whatever.v>

Cheers,

Roice

On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 2:24 PM,
'Eduard Baumann' href=3D"mailto:ed.baumann@bluewin.ch" target=3D"_blank">ed.ba=
umann@bluewin.ch
[4D_Cubing] < href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:

.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> =EF=BB=BF

Wow!

Congratulations!>

=C2=A0

I will never catch you=
,
but I still play with great pleasure.

=C2=A0

Best regardsiv>

Ed

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px">=

----- Original Message
-----

Fr=
om:
title=3D"4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
href=3D"mailto:qqwref@yahoo.com+[4D_Cubing]"
target=3D"_blank">qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]

To: moz-do-not-send=3D"true"
title=3D"4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com"
target=3D"_blank">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com iv>

Sent: Sunday,
December 04, 2016 7:14 PM

Subject: Re:
[MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=C2=A0
id=3D"m_812087855444393426m_5582683491912910278m_1176448823746659185m_33203=
46224878812088ygrp-text">

21 Hyperbolic puzzles. By my count I'm over 700
now.

{3,7} Hyperbolic 56-Color E0:1:0 V0:0:1 -
2280 twists

{4,6} 6-Color E0:1:0 V0:0:1 - 424 twists

{5,4} 6-Color (Non-Orientable) V2:0:0 - 406
twists

{5,4} 12-Color (Non-Orientable) E0:1.22:0 -
1582 twists

{5,4} 12-Color (Non-Orientable) E0:0:1 - 2770
twists

{5,4} 12-Color (Non-Orientable) F0:0:1.3 -
427 twists

{5,4} 12-Color (Non-Orientable) V2:0:0 - 952
twists

{5,4} 24-Color E0:1:0 - 2404 twists

{5,4} 24-Color E0:1.22:0 - 3826 twists

{5,4} 24-Color E0:0:1 - 6452 twists

{5,4} 24-Color F0:0:1.3 - 1055 twists

{5,4} 24-Color V0:0:1 - 904 twists

{5,4} 24-Color V2:0:0 - 2556 twists

{5,5} 6-Color V1.33:0:0 - 56 twists

{5,5} 6-Color B V1.33:0:0 - 119 twists

{6,4} 8-Color E0:1.1:0 - 1450 twists

{8,3} 6-Color E0:1:0 - 1504 twists

{8,3} 6-Color V0:0:1 - 484 twists

{8,3} 12-Color V0:1:0 - 510 twists

{8,3} 12-Color B V0:1:0 - 549 twists

{8,3} 24-Color V0:1:0 - 1384 twists

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20

--------------B18C230BF8C395F2ED82726A--

From: qqwref@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2016 12:32:01 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

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Hi Michael,

You are right. I did make a mistake by inadvertance. Thanks for correcting =
the error.

I will certainly try once your recomandation "hyp {8,3} 6-Color F0:2:0". Bu=
t later. I'm not comfortable with the few color puzzles (3-cyle macros not =
constructible).

I have also a recommandation: the puzzle "eucl torus 3-6 14 color e100". Yo=
u have 50% chance to not run in a parity problem. I did encounter the parit=
y problem and it was very tricky to find a final cornerface (cf) double swa=
p. It was necessary to see that there are 3 separated cf orbits. Then I was=
forced to make two setups allong the whole length of two orbits to get a s=
pecial double swap (name it A). Then I did use other 2 orbits to get a spec=
ial double swap B. A and B together gave me the wanted double swap.

Michael: Did you encounter this parity problem? Did you avoid it by conting=
in advance?

I have direct e-mail contact with Nan, Roice and Melinda p.ex. Is it also p=
ossible for you? If yes, please send me an e-mail to ed.baumann(at)bluewin.=
ch.

Best regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2016 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
Congrats to Dan for the 9x9x9x9 solve! You're crazy!

12 more hyperbolic puzzles done, so I have under 150 to go. I'm going to =
move on to IRP and Skew puzzles next. There are more hyperbolic puzzles tha=
t I know how to solve, but that are very big (500+ pieces up to a maximum o=
f 2464) and I don't want to lose motivation.

By the way:
(1) {8,3} 6-Color F0:2:0 is a very interesting puzzle. I won't give any h=
ints, but anyone who hasn't solved it, I recommend giving it a try.
(2) I think I found a mistake in the high score list, Eduard Baumann has =
a {8,3} 6-Color E0:1:0 V0:0:1 solve listed, but actually, the link and date=
and movecount are for {10,3} 6-Color E1:0:0 V1:0:0. Have you solved that {=
8,3} puzzle? It has 616 pieces so it would probably have a much larger move=
count.

{5,4} 12-Color (Non-Orientable) E0:1:0 - 1034 twists
{7,3} 24-Color F0:2:0 - 2297 twists
{7,3} 24-Color F1.2:0:1 - 1395 twists
{8,3} 6-Color F0:2:0 - 58 twists
{8,3} 12-Color E0:1:0 - 4490 twists
{8,3} 12-Color V0:0:1 - 1086 twists
{8,3} 12-Color B V0:0:1 - 1270 twists
{8,3} 24-Color V0:0:1 - 2881 twists
{10,3} 6-Color F0:2:0 - 67 twists
{10,3} 6-Color V0:0:1 - 855 twists
{10,3} 12-Color V0:0:1 - 1967 twists
{10,3} 18-Color V0:0:1 - 3050 twists

=20=20
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charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=EF=BB=BF

Hi Michael,

You are right. I did make a mistake b=
y=20
inadvertance. Thanks for correcting the error.

I will certainly try once your recomandati=
on=20
"hyp {8,3} 6-Color=20
F0:2:0". But later. I'm not comfortable with the few color puzzl=
es=20
(3-cyle macros not constructible).

I have also a recommandation: the puzzle "=
eucl=20
torus 3-6 14 color e100". You have 50% chance to not run in a=
=20
parity problem. I did encounter the parity problem and it was very tricky t=
o=20
find a final cornerface (cf) double swap. It was necessary to see that=
=20
there are 3 separated cf orbits. Then I was forced to make two setups allon=
g the=20
whole length of two orbits to get a special double swap (name it A). Then I=
did=20
use other 2 orbits to get a special double swap B. A and B together gave me=
the=20
wanted double swap.

Michael: Did you encounter this parity pro=
blem? Did=20
you avoid it by conting in advance?

I have direct e-mail contact with Nan, Roi=
ce and=20
Melinda p.ex. Is it also possible for you? If yes, please send me an e-mail=
to=20
ed.baumann(at)bluewin.ch.

Best regards

Ed

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]">qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=
=20

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2016 =
11:35=20
PM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile=
=20
Solving

=20

Congrats to Dan for the 9x9x9x9 solve! You're crazy!

12 more hyperbolic puzzles done, so I have under 150 to go. I'm goin=
g to=20
move on to IRP and Skew puzzles next. There are more hyperbolic puzzles t=
hat I=20
know how to solve, but that are very big (500+ pieces up to a maximum of =
2464)=20
and I don't want to lose motivation.

By the way:
(1) {8,3} 6-Color F0:2:0 is a very interesting puzzle=
. I=20
won't give any hints, but anyone who hasn't solved it, I recommend giving=
it a=20
try.
(2) I think I found a mistake in the high score list, Eduard Baum=
ann=20
has a {8,3} 6-Color E0:1:0 V0:0:1 solve listed, but actually, the li=
nk=20
and date and movecount are for {10,3} 6-Color E1:0:0 V1:0:0. Have you sol=
ved=20
that {8,3} puzzle? It has 616 pieces so it would probably have a much lar=
ger=20
movecount.

{5,4} 12-Color (Non-Orientable) E0:1:0 - 1034 twists
{7,3} 24-Col=
or=20
F0:2:0 - 2297 twists
{7,3} 24-Color F1.2:0:1 - 1395 twists
{8,3} 6-=
Color=20
F0:2:0 - 58 twists
{8,3} 12-Color E0:1:0 - 4490 twists
{8,3} 12-Col=
or=20
V0:0:1 - 1086 twists
{8,3} 12-Color B V0:0:1 - 1270 twists
{8,3}=20
24-Color V0:0:1 - 2881 twists
{10,3} 6-Color F0:2:0 - 67 twists
{10=
,3}=20
6-Color V0:0:1 - 855 twists
{10,3} 12-Color V0:0:1 - 1967 twists
{1=
0,3}=20
18-Color V0:0:1 - 3050 twists

------=_NextPart_000_003A_01D2592A.BD4FD570--

From: qqwref@yahoo.com
Date: 18 Dec 2016 12:26:31 -0800
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

From: qqwref@yahoo.com
Date: 21 Dec 2016 15:10:27 -0800
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

From: qqwref@yahoo.com
Date: 28 Dec 2016 11:15:20 -0800
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: "Eduard Baumann" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2017 17:00:42 +0100
Subject: MagicTile Solving

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MagicTile Solving

My next package of 10 solvings

eb_MT_eucl_torus_{4,4}_9_e0-1,41-0.xml 1444 =
twists

eb_MT_hyp_{6,4}_8_v001.xml 9896 =
twists

eb_MT_hyp_{8,4}_10_e1,4-0-0.xml 784 =
twists

eb_MT_hyp_{8,4}_10_e100_v100.xml 484 =
twists

eb_MT_hyp_{8,4}_10_f100_e0,83-0-0_v100.xml 325 twi=
sts

eb_MT_hyp_{8,4}_9_f100_e0,83-0-0_v100.xml 1044 t=
wists

eb_MT_hyp_{8,4}_9_e100_v100.xml 685 =
twists

eb_MT_skew_{4,4-3}_9_f0,33-0-1.xml 1152 =
twists

eb_MT_skew_{4,4-4}_16_f020.xml 1332 =
twists

eb_MT_skew_{4,4-4}_16_v200.xml 1212 =
twists

Kind regards
Ed
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>

MagicTile Solving

My next package of 10 solvings>

face=3D"Times New Roman">eb_MT_eucl_torus_{4,4}_9_e0-1,41-0.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
      style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">       >1444style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
twists

face=3D"Times New Roman">eb_MT_hyp_{6,4}_8_v001.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        N>style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
9896style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
twists

face=3D"Times New Roman">eb_MT_hyp_{8,4}_10_e1,4-0-0.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
784style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
twists

face=3D"Times New Roman">eb_MT_hyp_{8,4}_10_e100_v100.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
   =20
style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
484style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
twists

face=3D"Times New Roman">eb_MT_hyp_{8,4}_10_f100_e0,83-0-0_v100.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
   325style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
twists

face=3D"Times New Roman">eb_MT_hyp_{8,4}_9_f100_e0,83-0-0_v100.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
     1044style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
twists

face=3D"Times New Roman">eb_MT_hyp_{8,4}_9_e100_v100.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
   =20
style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
        =20
685style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
twists

face=3D"Times New Roman">eb_MT_skew_{4,4-3}_9_f0,33-0-1.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">       N=20
style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
            =20
1152style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
twists

face=3D"Times New Roman">eb_MT_skew_{4,4-4}_16_f020.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 1"> style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
            &nb=
sp;          =20
1332style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
twists
style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-fareast-font-=
family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: FR; mso-fareast-language: DE;=
mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"=20
lang=3DFR>eb_MT_skew_{4,4-4}_16_v200.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
1212style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
twists

=3Dbaseline=20
src=3D"cid:3FFA4730D057414A8A343C68D454CA50@LAB">

Kind regards

Ed

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From: qqwref@yahoo.com
Date: 03 Jan 2017 22:26:13 -0800
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: qqwref@yahoo.com
Date: 07 Jan 2017 15:34:48 -0800
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

From: qqwref@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2017 11:58:05 +0100
Subject: Re: MagicTile Solving

------=_NextPart_000_002A_01D269A6.7A812FA0
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Congratulations Michael!

It's not easy to chase you.

But I stay fascinated by MagicTile.

Eventually you will reache the end having having solved ALL 1021 MagicTiles=
.

Best regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2017 12:34 AM
Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
I solved 70 of the latest batch of 107 puzzles so far. It sounds like mor=
e than it is, since most of that is {6,6} ones which are pretty small. The =
wiki should have everything now. PS: Happy New Year!

{4,5} 40-Color R5.3:
E0.75:0:0 - 420 twists
E0.5:0:0 E0.65:0:0 E0.8:0:0 - 1511 twists
V0:0:1 - 370 twists
F0.5:0:0 E0.5:0:0 - 1056 twists
F0:1:0 V1:0:0 - 832 twists

{4,7} 42-Color R10.9:
E0:1:0 - 338 twists
E0:1.1:0 - 2906 twists
V0:0:1 - 626 twists
F0:1:0 E0.5:0:0 - 1074 twists
F0:1:0 V1:0:0 - 956 twists

{5,4} 32-Color R5.3:
F0:0:1 - 330 twists
E1:0:0 - 428 twists
V1.33:0:0 - 540 twists
F0:1:0 E1:0:0 - 2346 twists
E0.5:0:0 V1:0:0 - 1076 twists

{6,6} 2-Color:
F0:1.2:0 - 1 twist
E0.7:0:0 - 2 twists
E1:0:0 - 2 twists
E0.61:0:0 E1:0:0 - 3 twists
V0:1:0 - 2 twists
V1.2:0:0 - 2 twists
F1:0:0 E1:0:0 - 51 twists
F0:1:0 V1:0:0 - 5 twists
E0.5:0:0 V1:0:0 - 22 twists
F0.7:0:0 F1:0:0 E0.5:0:0 - 15 twists

{6,6} 4-Color R3.8:
F0:1.2:0 - 7 twists
F0:0:1 - 30 twists
E0.7:0:0 - 34 twists
E1:0:0 - 124 twists
E0.61:0:0 E1:0:0 - 367 twists
V0:1:0 - 2 twists
V1.2:0:0 - 18 twists
V0:0:1 - 31 twists
F1:0:0 E1:0:0 - 226 twists
F0:1:0 V1:0:0 - 20 twists
E0.5:0:0 V1:0:0 - 67 twists
F0.7:0:0 F1:0:0 E0.5:0:0 - 47 twists

{6,6} 4-Color Orbifold:
< div> F0:1.2:0 - 1 twist
E0.7:0:0 - 12 twists
V0:1:0 - 4 twists
V1.2:0:0 - 2 twists
F0:1:0 V1:0:0 - 13 twists
E0.5:0:0 V1:0:0 - 22 twists
F0.7:0:0 F1:0:0 E0.5:0:0 - 19 twists

{6,6} 6-Color R4.7:
F0:1.2:0 - 2 twists
F0:0:1 - 10 twists
E0.7:0:0 - 46 twists
E1:0:0 - 492 twists
E0.61:0:0 E1:0:0 - 1100 twists
V0:1:0 - 8 twists
V1.2:0:0 - 26 twists
F1:0:0 E1:0:0 - 654 twists
F0:1:0 V1:0:0 - 62 twists
E0.5:0:0 V1:0:0 - 122 twists
F0.7:0:0 F1:0:0 E0.5:0:0 - 146 twists

{6,6} 6-Color R4.8:
F0:1.2:0 - 8 twists
F0:0:1 - 4 twists
E0.7:0:0 - 56 twists
E1:0:0 - 244 twists
V0:1:0 - 10 twists
V1.2:0:0 - 30 twists
F1:0:0 E1:0:0 - 579 twists
F0:1:0 V1:0:0 - 61 twists
E0.5:0:0 V1:0:0 - 122 twists
F0.7:0:0 F1:0:0 E0.5:0:0 - 160 twists

{7,4} 24-Color R10.9:
F0:0:1 - 623 twists
E1:0:0 - 350 twists
V0:1:0 - 564 twists
F1:0:0 E1:0:0 - 2106 twists
F0:1:0 V1:0:0 - 824 twists
=20=20=20=20
--Michael

=20=20
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=EF=BB=BF

Congratulations Michael!

It's not easy to chase you.

But I stay fascinated by MagicTile.=

Eventually you will reache the end having =
having=20
solved ALL 1021 MagicTiles.

Best regards

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]">qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=
=20

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2017 12:=
34=20
AM

Subject: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile=20
Solving

=20

I solved 70 of the latest batch of 107 puzzles so far. It sounds like =
more=20
than it is, since most of that is {6,6} ones which are pretty small. The =
wiki=20
should have everything now. PS: Happy New Year!

{4,5} 40-Color R5.3:

E0.75:0:0 - 420 twists

E0.5:0:0 E0.65:0:0 E0.8:0:0 - 1511 twists

V0:0:1 - 370 twists

F0.5:0:0 E0.5:0:0 - 1056 twists

F0:1:0 V1:0:0 - 832 twists

{4,7} 42-Color R10.9:

E0:1:0 - 338 twists

E0:1.1:0 - 2906 twists

V0:0:1 - 626 twists

F0:1:0 E0.5:0:0 - 1074 twists

F0:1:0 V1:0:0 - 956 twists

{5,4} 32-Color R5.3:

F0:0:1 - 330 twists

E1:0:0 - 428 twists

V1.33:0:0 - 540 twists

F0:1:0 E1:0:0 - 2346 twists

E0.5:0:0 V1:0:0 - 1076 twists

{6,6} 2-Color:

F0:1.2:0 - 1 twist

E0.7:0:0 - 2 twists

E1:0:0 - 2 twists

E0.61:0:0 E1:0:0 - 3 twists

V0:1:0 - 2 twists

V1.2:0:0 - 2 twists

F1:0:0 E1:0:0 - 51 twists

F0:1:0 V1:0:0 - 5 twists

E0.5:0:0 V1:0:0 - 22 twists

F0.7:0:0 F1:0:0 E0.5:0:0 - 15 twists

{6,6} 4-Color R3.8:

F0:1.2:0 - 7 twists

F0:0:1 - 30 twists

E0.7:0:0 - 34 twists

E1:0:0 - 124 twists

E0.61:0:0 E1:0:0 - 367 twists

V0:1:0 - 2 twists

V1.2:0:0 - 18 twists

V0:0:1 - 31 twists

F1:0:0 E1:0:0 - 226 twists

F0:1:0 V1:0:0 - 20 twists

E0.5:0:0 V1:0:0 - 67 twists

F0.7:0:0 F1:0:0 E0.5:0:0 - 47 twists

{6,6} 4-Color Orbifold:
< div> F0:1.2:0 - 1 twistIV>

E0.7:0:0 - 12 twists

V0:1:0 - 4 twists

V1.2:0:0 - 2 twists

F0:1:0 V1:0:0 - 13 twists

E0.5:0:0 V1:0:0 - 22 twists

F0.7:0:0 F1:0:0 E0.5:0:0 - 19 twists

{6,6} 6-Color R4.7:

F0:1.2:0 - 2 twists

F0:0:1 - 10 twists

E0.7:0:0 - 46 twists

E1:0:0 - 492 twists

E0.61:0:0 E1:0:0 - 1100 twists

V0:1:0 - 8 twists

V1.2:0:0 - 26 twists

F1:0:0 E1:0:0 - 654 twists

F0:1:0 V1:0:0 - 62 twists

E0.5:0:0 V1:0:0 - 122 twists

F0.7:0:0 F1:0:0 E0.5:0:0 - 146 twists

{6,6} 6-Color R4.8:

F0:1.2:0 - 8 twists

F0:0:1 - 4 twists

E0.7:0:0 - 56 twists

E1:0:0 - 244 twists

V0:1:0 - 10 twists

V1.2:0:0 - 30 twists

F1:0:0 E1:0:0 - 579 twists

F0:1:0 V1:0:0 - 61 twists

E0.5:0:0 V1:0:0 - 122 twists

F0.7:0:0 F1:0:0 E0.5:0:0 - 160 twists

{7,4} 24-Color R10.9:

F0:0:1 - 623 twists

E1:0:0 - 350 twists

V0:1:0 - 564 twists

F1:0:0 E1:0:0 - 2106 twists

F0:1:0 V1:0:0 - 824 twists



--Michael

------=_NextPart_000_002A_01D269A6.7A812FA0--

From: qqwref@yahoo.com
Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2017 11:10:32 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

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Wow!

You are realy very performant:
a.. big speed in 4D and
b.. few moves in MagicTile
c.. high number of solvings in MagicTile
Best regards
Ed

----- Original Message -----=20
From: qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2017 5:52 AM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile Solving

=20=20=20=20
I haven't been doing much MagicTile solving lately, but I've done 16 more=
solves since my last post about two months ago. That brings my count to 87=
3, with under 150 unsolved puzzles.

Torus {4,4} 9-Color F0:2.24:0 - 994 twists
Torus {4,4} 16-Color F0:2.24:0 - 766 twists
Klein Bottle {4,4} 9-Color F0:2.24:0 - 1296 twists

{4,5} 40-Color R5.3 F0:0:1 - 1506 twists
{4,7} 42-Color R10.9 F0:0:1 - 1574 twists
{5,4} 32-Color R5.3 F0:0:1.3 - 1537 twists
{5,4} 32-Color R5.3 E0:1:0 - 5788 twists
{5,4} 32-Color R5.3 V0:0:1 - 1354 twists
{5,4} 32-Color R5.3 E1:0:0 V1:0:0 - 2634 twists
{6,6} 6-Color R4.8 E0.61:0:0 E1:0:0 - 733 twists
{6,6} 6-Color R4.7 V0:0:1 - 46 twists
{7,4} 24-Color R10.9 F0:0:1.3 - 2183 twists

{4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2.24:0 - 986 twists
{4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2.24:0 - 754 twists
{6,4|3} 20-Color F0:0:1.3 - 1454 twists
{6,4|3} 20-Color V0:0:1 - 916 twists

--Michael

=20=20
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=EF=BB=BF

Wow!

You are realy very performant:>

big speed in 4D andLI>

few moves in MagicTile

high number of solvings in=20
MagicTile

Best regards

Ed

style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">

----- Original Message -----

style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]">qqwref@yahoo.com [4D_Cubing]=
=20

To: ps.com=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>

Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2017 5:52=
=20
AM

Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: MagicTile=
=20
Solving

=20

I haven't been doing much MagicTile solving lately, but I've done 16 m=
ore=20
solves since my last post about two months ago. That brings my count to 8=
73,=20
with under 150 unsolved puzzles.

Torus {4,4} 9-Color F0:2.24:0 - 994 twists

Torus {4,4} 16-Color F0:2.24:0 - 766 twists

Klein Bottle {4,4} 9-Color F0:2.24:0 - 1296 twists

{4,5} 40-Color R5.3 F0:0:1 - 1506 twists

{4,7} 42-Color R10.9 F0:0:1 - 1574 twists

{5,4} 32-Color R5.3 F0:0:1.3 - 1537 twists

{5,4} 32-Color R5.3 E0:1:0 - 5788 twists

{5,4} 32-Color R5.3 V0:0:1 - 1354 twists

{5,4} 32-Color R5.3 E1:0:0 V1:0:0 - 2634 twists

{6,6} 6-Color R4.8 E0.61:0:0 E1:0:0 - 733 twists

{6,6} 6-Color R4.7 V0:0:1 - 46 twists

{7,4} 24-Color R10.9 F0:0:1.3 - 2183 twists

{4,4|3} 9-Color F0:2.24:0 - 986 twists

{4,4|4} 16-Color F0:2.24:0 - 754 twists

{6,4|3} 20-Color F0:0:1.3 - 1454 twists

{6,4|3} 20-Color V0:0:1 - 916 twists

--Michael

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From: "Eduard Baumann" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 16:30:02 +0100
Subject: MagicTile Solving

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I too continue to solve MagicTiles

eb_MT_ell_sph_dodeca_f001_f0,67-0-1.xml 4765 =
twists

eb_MT_hyp_KQ_{7,3}_24_f001.xml 1403 twists

eb_MT_hyp_{12,4}_9_f0,67-0-1.xml 1034 twists

eb_MT_hyp_{5,4}_12no_ev100.xml 2217 twists

eb_MT_hyp_{5,5}_12_fh00_e00h.xml 881 twists

eb_MT_hyp_{5,5}_12_v001.xml 3122 twists

eb_MT_irp_{3,7}_56_v0h1.xml 1759 twists

eb_MT_irp_{3,9}b_24_f020.xml 956 twists

eb_MT_irp_{3,9}c_24_f020.xml 1124 twists

eb_MT_skew_{4,4-4}_16_f0,33-0-1.xml 1124 twists

Allways much more twists than Michael.
Never mind.

Kind regards
Ed
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>

I too continue to solve MagicTiles<=
/DIV>

face=3D"Times New Roman">eb_MT_ell_sph_dodeca_f001_f0,67-0-1.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
4765style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
twists

face=3D"Times New Roman">eb_MT_hyp_KQ_{7,3}_24_f001.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
   =20
1403style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
twists

face=3D"Times New Roman">eb_MT_hyp_{12,4}_9_f0,67-0-1.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">       1034=
style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
twists

face=3D"Times New Roman">eb_MT_hyp_{5,4}_12no_ev100.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
      =20
2217style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
twists

face=3D"Times New Roman">eb_MT_hyp_{5,5}_12_fh00_e00h.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
   =20
881style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
twists

face=3D"Times New Roman">eb_MT_hyp_{5,5}_12_v001.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
3122style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
twists

face=3D"Times New Roman">eb_MT_irp_{3,7}_56_v0h1.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
1759style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
twists

face=3D"Times New Roman">eb_MT_irp_{3,9}b_24_f020.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
956style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
twists

face=3D"Times New Roman">eb_MT_irp_{3,9}c_24_f020.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
1124style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
twists

face=3D"Times New Roman">eb_MT_skew_{4,4-4}_16_f0,33-0-1.xmlstyle=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">       1124=
style=3D"mso-tab-count: 1">        =
       =20
twists

Allways much more twists than Michael.NT>

Never mind.

Kind regards

Ed

------=_NextPart_000_008B_01D2A197.39BFA400--

From: Roice <roice3@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2018 17:38:45 -0500
Subject: Re: [MC4D] MagicTile Solving

--Apple-Mail-3F4F2F2B-42FB-49E5-BF72-70CE63276340
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Ed,

This is amazing, and I=E2=80=99m blown away that you (and Michael and Nan a=
nd others) have taken on so many of the MagicTile puzzles.=20=20

Even though I=E2=80=99ll never come close to such a solve, it=E2=80=99s ful=
filling to live vicariously through you. Thanks for reporting your successe=
s!

Best,
Roice

> On Jun 30, 2018, at 4:33 PM, 'Eduard Baumann' ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_C=
ubing] <4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Hi all,
>=20=20
> I wanted solve a **BIG** MagicTile puzzle. For this I tackled a puzzle w=
hich Michael Gottlieb hasn't yet solved.
> I have chosen MT_hyp_{4,7}_42_R10-9_e100 with 42 colors and 714 pieces. I=
name them faces, edgefaces, cornerfaces, edges and corners.
> My solves has 172'914 moves.
>=20
> I did a first try with 90'000 moves (14 days elapsed time) and was stoppe=
d with a difficult parity situation. See illustration.
>=20=20
>
>=20=20
> Can anyone of you find a sequence to solve this parity?
>=20
> I simply restarted a second try and was lucky enough to not encounter the=
parity again. This puzzle is not only lengthy but is also very interesting=
(with crossing orbits).
> My elapsed time for the sucessfull try was 18 days.
>=20=20
> By the way: during this month the 42 MT colors got very familiar to me. W=
hite, blue, green, ... but also darkGold, minth, cadet, cornblue, chocolat=
e, tan, khaki, teal, ...
>=20
> Happy puzzling!
>=20=20
> Ed
>=20
>=20
>=20

--Apple-Mail-3F4F2F2B-42FB-49E5-BF72-70CE63276340
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=3Dutf-8">
-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8">Hi Ed,
<=
br>
This is amazing, and I=E2=80=99m blown away that you (and Mic=
hael and Nan and others) have taken on so many of the MagicTile puzzles. &n=
bsp;

Even though I=E2=80=99ll never come close to =
such a solve, it=E2=80=99s fulfilling to live vicariously through you. n style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Thanks for reporting =
your successes!

Best,
Roice
iv>
On Jun 30, 2018, at 4:33 PM, 'Eduard Baumann' aumann@bluewin.ch">ed.baumann@bluewin.ch [4D_Cubing] <lto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
=

=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20

e">

Hi all,

I wanted solve a **BIG** MagicTile puz=
zle. For this=20
I tackled a puzzle which Michael Gottlieb hasn't yet solved.
I have chos=
en=20
MT_hyp_{4,7}_42_R10-9_e100 with 42 colors and 714 pieces. =
I=20
name them faces, edgefaces, cornerfaces, edges and corners.
My solves ha=
s=20
172'914 moves.

I did a first try with 90'000 move=
s (14 days=20
elapsed time) and was stopped with a difficult parity situation=
. See=20
illustration.

ce=3D"Arial">
<e100 parity.JPG>
"Arial">

Can anyone of you find a sequence to s=
olve this=20
parity?

I simply restarted a second try an=
d was lucky=20
enough to not encounter the parity again. This puzzle is not only lengthy b=
ut is=20
also very interesting (with crossing orbits).
My elapsed time for=20
the sucessfull try was 18 days.

By the way: during this month the 42 M=
T colors got=20
very familiar to me. White, blue, green, ... but also darkGold, minth=
,=20
cadet, cornblue, chocolate, tan, khaki, teal, ...
"2" face=3D"Arial">

Happy puzzling!

Ed

--Apple-Mail-3F4F2F2B-42FB-49E5-BF72-70CE63276340--

From: "ed.baumann@bluewin.ch" <ed.baumann@bluewin.ch>
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2019 01:07:16 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: MagicTile Solving

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Here are my 19 recent MagicTile Solvings
eb_MT_ell_sph_dodeca_e1,05_v1.xml (5316 moves)
eb_MT_ell_sph_dodeca_e100+10.xml (7727 moves)
eb_MT_ell_sph_icosa_v1,3+1,45+1,6.xml (6766 moves)
eb_MT_eucl_torus_{6,3}_16_e200.xml (12418 moves)
eb_MT_eucl_torus_{6,3}_16_f0,3+0,6+0,9.xml (14534 moves)
eb_MT_hyp_KQ_{3,7}_56_fh+e10.xml (3789 moves)
eb_MT_hyp_KQ_{7,3}_24_f.3+.6+.9.xml (33213 moves)
eb_MT_hyp_KQ_{7,3}_24_f0,7+0,67-0-1.xml (6872 moves)
eb_MT_hyp_KQ_{7,3}_24_f201.xml (26206 moves)
eb_MT_hyp_KQ_{7,3}_24_v1,3+1,6.xml (9964 moves)
eb_MT_hyp_{10,3}_18_f0,4-0-1_f0,8-0-1.xml (25255 moves)
eb_MT_hyp_{5,4}_12no_f1,3.xml (1533 moves)
eb_MT_hyp_{5,4}_24_f1,3.xml (2991 moves)
eb_MT_hyp_{8,3}_24_e1,75-0-0.xml (17982 moves)
eb_MT_hyp_{8,3}_24_f0,4+0,8.xml (15148 moves)
eb_MT_irp_{4,6}_12_v20.xml (1448 moves)
eb_MT_skew_{4,4-7}_49_f0,33-0-1.xml (9212 moves)
eb_MT_skew_{4,4-7}_49_f20.xml (10154 moves)
eb_MT_skew_{4,4-7}_49_v200.xml (7162 moves)
Only one has been solved the first time
*** eb_MT_hyp_KQ_{7,3}_24_f201.xml (26206 moves) ***
Kind regards
Ed Baumann

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Here are my 19 recent MagicTile Solvings

eb_M=
T_ell_sph_dodeca_e1,05_v1.xml (5316 moves)
eb_MT_ell=
_sph_dodeca_e100+10.xml (7727 moves)
eb_MT_ell_sph_i=
cosa_v1,3+1,45+1,6.xml (6766 moves)
eb_MT_eucl_torus=
_{6,3}_16_e200.xml (12418 moves)
eb_MT_eucl_torus_{6=
,3}_16_f0,3+0,6+0,9.xml (14534 moves)
eb_MT_hyp_KQ_{=
3,7}_56_fh+e10.xml (3789 moves)
eb_MT_hyp_KQ_{7,3}_2=
4_f.3+.6+.9.xml (33213 moves)
eb_MT_hyp_KQ_{7,3}_24_=
f0,7+0,67-0-1.xml (6872 moves)
eb_MT_hyp_KQ_{7,3}_24=
_f201.xml (26206 moves)
eb_MT_hyp_KQ_{7,3}_24_v1,3+1=
,6.xml (9964 moves)
eb_MT_hyp_{10,3}_18_f0,4-0-1_f0,=
8-0-1.xml (25255 moves)
eb_MT_hyp_{5,4}_12no_f1,3.xm=
l (1533 moves)
eb_MT_hyp_{5,4}_24_f1,3.xml &nb=
sp; (2991 moves)
eb_MT_hyp_{8,3}_24_e1,75-0-0.xml (1=
7982 moves)
eb_MT_hyp_{8,3}_24_f0,4+0,8.xml (15148 m=
oves)
eb_MT_irp_{4,6}_12_v20.xml (1448 moves)
<=
div>eb_MT_skew_{4,4-7}_49_f0,33-0-1.xml (9212 moves)
>eb_MT_skew_{4,4-7}_49_f20.xml (10154 moves)
eb_MT_s=
kew_{4,4-7}_49_v200.xml (7162 moves)

=
Only one has been solved the first time
*** eb_MT_hyp_KQ_{7,3}_24=
_f201.xml (26206 moves) ***

Kind rega=
rds
Ed Baumann

------=_Part_49683_932561361.1571785636843--

------=_Part_49684_1223138521.1571785636843--

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Thread: "MagicTile Solving"