Thread: "new {5,4} puzzles"

From: Roice Nelson <roice3@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 18:57:51 -0600
Subject: new {5,4} puzzles



--000e0ce0d47e04051e04b2c0feac
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi all,

I added some fun {5,4} puzzles. With cells identified, the tiling for
these new puzzles has a checkerboard pattern with *only two* colors.

The FT version is trivial because a twist does not change the puzzle state,
so I didn't include it.

The ET version is enjoyable, even if not very difficult. A
checkerboard
of
the stickers is easy to make on this puzzle.

I haven't figured out the VT versions, but they seem pretty coupled and
should be more difficult. Here is something unusual about them... Each
slicing circle is "double covered". The identified vertices of two adjacent
cells (of a given color) are at the same location, so there are really two
overlapping circles there. The puzzle still makes sense when twisting
because of the checkerboard color pattern around vertices.

For some time now, there have already been 6-color and 12-color puzzles
based on the {5,4} tiling. The 6-color is non-orientable, the 12-color
orientable, and the patterns of both are strange. I don't think those
colorings can be used as a basis for a {5,3,4} periodic painting, which we've
wondered about in the past
here,
because
the coloring does not remain the same after a 1/5th rotation of the entire
plane. I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect that the maximal coloring for the
{5,3,4} has just two colors. However, VT and ET puzzle versions of that
honeycomb would still be very neat to see.

Cheers,
Roice

--000e0ce0d47e04051e04b2c0feac
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

I added some fun {5,4} puzzles. =A0Wi=
th cells identified, the tiling for these new puzzles has a checkerboard pa=
ttern with only two colors.

The FT version is trivi=
al because a twist does not change the puzzle state, so I didn't includ=
e it.





The ET version is enjoyable, even if not very difficult.=A0 A =3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/photos/album/1694853720/pic/397=
07321/view">checkerboard
=A0of the stickers=A0is easy to make on this pu=
zzle.


I haven't figured out the VT versions, but they seem pretty coupled=
and should be more difficult.=A0 Here is something unusual about them... E=
ach slicing circle is "double covered". The identified vertices o=
f two adjacent cells (of a given color) are at the same location, so there =
are really two overlapping circles there.=A0 The puzzle still makes sense w=
hen twisting because of the=A0checkerboard=A0color pattern around vertices.=


For some time now, there have already been 6-color and =
12-color puzzles based on the {5,4} tiling. =A0The 6-color is non-orientabl=
e, the 12-color orientable, and the patterns of both are strange. =A0I don&=
#39;t think those colorings can be used as a basis for a {5,3,4} periodic p=
ainting, which=A0essage/1014">we've wondered about in the past here,=A0because the c=
oloring does not remain the same after a 1/5th rotation of the entire plane=
. =A0I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect that the maximal coloring for the =
{5,3,4} has just two colors. =A0However, VT and ET puzzle versions of that =
honeycomb would still be very neat to see.


Cheers,
Roice




--000e0ce0d47e04051e04b2c0feac--




From: "Andrey" <andreyastrelin@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 08:56:54 -0000
Subject: Re: new {5,4} puzzles



Hi Roice,
it's very interesting. I haven't check colorings of {5,4} yet, but it sho=
uldn't be very difficult. As for {5,3,4}, I'm sure that there is 22-colors =
pattern (when dodecahedra on the opposite sides of some dodecahedron have s=
ame color), and much more others. Finite algebaric fields technique should =
work fine for this honeycomb.

Andrey




From: "Andrey" <andreyastrelin@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:59:01 -0600
Subject: Re: new {5,4} puzzles



--000e0cdf7134bc6eef04b2d7a31b
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Thank you for your thoughts, Andrey. I was glad to read you know there are
more possibilities for the {5,3,4}, and this encouraged me to further
experiment with {5,4} cell identifications. I found some more that work,
so there are more puzzles now :)

- 4-Color, Orientable
- 12-Color, Non-Orientable *
- 16-Color, Non-Orientable
- 24-Color, Orientable *

I think the two paintings I've starred could possibly be used as a basis
for a {5,3,4} painting, since they have the following property: Center any
color, and a 1/5th rotation of the whole plane will take copies of that
color to copies. (The existence of a non-orientable coloring with this
property surprised me a little, since in the past we tried and failed to
find a non-orientable {6,3} tiling that could do this with a 1/6th
rotation).

Both the 12-Color and 24-Color patterns do not have identified cells that
are adjacent, which allowed me to deepen the FT cuts. The 12-Color is an
especially lovely puzzle, and I uploaded a picture of it in the pristine
state
.

If there is a 22-color {5,3,4}, I wonder if there is an orientable {5,4}
painting with less than 24 colors and that special property that copies
will get rotated to copies during a 1/5th rotation of the plane. I haven't
found one yet though. Your algebraic fields techniques may be a faster way
to track paintings down than my experiments with MagicTile configurations...

seeya,
Roice


On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 2:56 AM, Andrey wrote:


> Hi Roice,
> it's very interesting. I haven't check colorings of {5,4} yet, but it
> shouldn't be very difficult. As for {5,3,4}, I'm sure that there is
> 22-colors pattern (when dodecahedra on the opposite sides of some
> dodecahedron have same color), and much more others. Finite algebaric
> fields technique should work fine for this honeycomb.
>
> Andrey
>

--000e0cdf7134bc6eef04b2d7a31b
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thank you for your thoughts, Andrey.=A0 I was glad to read you know there a=
re more possibilities for the {5,3,4}, and this encouraged me to further ex=
periment with {5,4} cell identifications. =A0I found some more that work, s=
o there are more puzzles now :)

I think the t=
wo=A0paintings I've starred=A0could possibly be used as a basis for a {=
5,3,4} painting, since they have the following property:=A0 Center any colo=
r, and a 1/5th rotation of the whole plane will take copies of that color t=
o copies.=A0 (The existence of a non-orientable coloring with this property=
=A0surprised me a little, since in the past=A0we tried and failed to find a=
non-orientable {6,3} tiling that could do this with a 1/6th rotation).v>


=A0=A0
Both the 12-Color and 24-Color patterns do not have i=
dentified cells that are adjacent, which allowed me to deepen the FT cuts. =
=A0The 12-Color is an especially lovely puzzle, and=A0I uploaded a =3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/photos/album/1694853720/pic/198=
3285309/view">picture of it in the pristine state
.



=A0=A0
If there is a 22-color {5,3,4}, I wonder if there is =
an orientable {5,4} painting with less than 24 colors and that special prop=
erty that copies will get rotated to copies during a 1/5th rotation of the =
plane. =A0I haven't found one yet though.=A0 Your algebraic fields tech=
niques may be a faster way to track paintings down than my experiments with=
MagicTile configurations...



=A0
seeya,
Roice
=A0
=A0
=
On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 2:56 AM, Andrey r=3D"ltr"><>andreyastrelin@yahoo.com> wrote:



=A0
der-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:sol=
id" class=3D"gmail_quote">Hi Roice,

=A0it's very interesting. I haven't check colorings of {5,4} yet, =
but it shouldn't be very difficult. As for {5,3,4}, I'm sure that t=
here is 22-colors pattern (when dodecahedra on the opposite sides of some d=
odecahedron have same color), and much more others. Finite algebaric fields=
technique should work fine for this honeycomb.




=A0

Andrey


--000e0cdf7134bc6eef04b2d7a31b--




From: "Andrey" <andreyastrelin@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2011 20:18:23 -0000
Subject: [MC4D] Re: new {5,4} puzzles



Hi Roice,
Something was wrong in my mathematics. Now my calculations give different=
result:

Field F_25 gives 24-color {5,4} and 130-color {5,3,4}
Field F_81 gives 72-color {5,4} and 4428-color {5,3,4}
Field Z_11 gives 264-color {5,4}
Field Z_19 gives 1368-color {5,4}
Field Z_29 gives 406 colors for both {5,4} and {5,3,4}

So probably there is no good puzzles in {5,3,4}. Only hope is that thee wil=
l be good subgroup of 26 elements for F_25 or 29 or 58 elements for Z_29.

Andrey

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Roice Nelson wrote:
>
> Thank you for your thoughts, Andrey. I was glad to read you know there a=
re
> more possibilities for the {5,3,4}, and this encouraged me to further
> experiment with {5,4} cell identifications. I found some more that work,
> so there are more puzzles now :)
>=20
> - 4-Color, Orientable
> - 12-Color, Non-Orientable *
> - 16-Color, Non-Orientable
> - 24-Color, Orientable *
>=20
> I think the two paintings I've starred could possibly be used as a basis
> for a {5,3,4} painting, since they have the following property: Center a=
ny
> color, and a 1/5th rotation of the whole plane will take copies of that
> color to copies. (The existence of a non-orientable coloring with this
> property surprised me a little, since in the past we tried and failed to
> find a non-orientable {6,3} tiling that could do this with a 1/6th
> rotation).
>=20
> Both the 12-Color and 24-Color patterns do not have identified cells that
> are adjacent, which allowed me to deepen the FT cuts. The 12-Color is an
> especially lovely puzzle, and I uploaded a picture of it in the pristine
> state/1983285309/view>
> .
>=20
> If there is a 22-color {5,3,4}, I wonder if there is an orientable {5,4}
> painting with less than 24 colors and that special property that copies
> will get rotated to copies during a 1/5th rotation of the plane. I haven=
't
> found one yet though. Your algebraic fields techniques may be a faster w=
ay
> to track paintings down than my experiments with MagicTile configurations=
...
>=20
> seeya,
> Roice
>=20
>=20
> On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 2:56 AM, Andrey wrote:
>=20
>=20
> > Hi Roice,
> > it's very interesting. I haven't check colorings of {5,4} yet, but it
> > shouldn't be very difficult. As for {5,3,4}, I'm sure that there is
> > 22-colors pattern (when dodecahedra on the opposite sides of some
> > dodecahedron have same color), and much more others. Finite algebaric
> > fields technique should work fine for this honeycomb.
> >
> > Andrey
> >
>




From: Roice Nelson <roice3@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2011 12:56:39 -0600
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: new {5,4} puzzles



--000e0cd6e3044f716004b334a549
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi Andrey,

Can your technique be used to find non-orientable paintings? Maybe there
is a way to have the F_25 field give the 12-color {5,4} and a corresponding
{5,3,4} with much less than 130 colors?

In any case, I do still think VT, ET, and RT versions of a 2-color {5,3,4}
would be worthy and enjoyable puzzles.

Roice


On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 2:18 PM, Andrey wrote:

> Hi Roice,
> Something was wrong in my mathematics. Now my calculations give different
> result:
>
> Field F_25 gives 24-color {5,4} and 130-color {5,3,4}
> Field F_81 gives 72-color {5,4} and 4428-color {5,3,4}
> Field Z_11 gives 264-color {5,4}
> Field Z_19 gives 1368-color {5,4}
> Field Z_29 gives 406 colors for both {5,4} and {5,3,4}
>
> So probably there is no good puzzles in {5,3,4}. Only hope is that thee
> will be good subgroup of 26 elements for F_25 or 29 or 58 elements for Z_29.
>
> Andrey

--000e0cd6e3044f716004b334a549
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Andrey,


Can your technique be used to find non-orient=
able paintings? =A0Maybe there is a way to have the F_25 field give the 12-=
color {5,4} and a corresponding {5,3,4} with much less than 130 colors?v>

In any case, I do still think VT, ET, and RT versions o=
f a 2-color {5,3,4} would be worthy and enjoyable puzzles.

div>
Roice


On Fri, Dec 2, =
2011 at 2:18 PM, Andrey <lin@yahoo.com">andreyastrelin@yahoo.com> wrote:

x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Hi Roice,

=A0Something was wrong in my mathematics. Now my calculations give differe=
nt result:



Field F_25 gives 24-color {5,4} and 130-color {5,3,4}

Field F_81 gives 72-color {5,4} and 4428-color {5,3,4}

Field Z_11 gives 264-color {5,4}

Field Z_19 gives 1368-color {5,4}

Field Z_29 gives 406 colors for both {5,4} and {5,3,4}



So probably there is no good puzzles in {5,3,4}. Only hope is that thee wil=
l be good subgroup of 26 elements for F_25 or 29 or 58 elements for Z_29.r>


Andrey


--000e0cd6e3044f716004b334a549--





Return to MagicCube4D main page
Return to the Superliminal home page