Hall of fame of the classic 3x3x3x3: Hi Eduard, I have solved now (as third person) the "24cell FT" with much more twist= For me the "24call FT" is the most beautyful of these virtual 4D twistin= For me the "24call FT" is the most beautyful of these virtual Congratulations, Ed!!! For me the "24call FT" is the most beautyful of these virtual 4D twi= Treat the cells in a contiguous manner. Allwasy take as next cell a neig= Facecenters Two 3-cycle macros c4 and c5. Edges macro edg5 =3D 3-cycle in same cell Facesides 3-cycle macros between cells: fc22 and fc24 (a) (b) Subcorners Two 3-cycle macros sc11 (3584 long) within a cell and sc6t (21714 long) = Corners A wide 3-cycle macro c14 (836 long), a narrow 3-cycle macro c17d (= The elapsed time for my solve is 66 hours. You can find my macros with pictures in "files / Eduard". R is always th= Kind regards Ed --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard Baumann" <baumann@...> w=
--Apple-Mail-2--448412411
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=utf-8
I don't know about everyone else but I am attending my senior year of under=
grad earning a double degree in mathematics and engineering. Any free time =
I have gets dedicated immediately to sleep :) Wish I had the time to go thr=
ough all of the recent 4D puzzles...
Take care,
Matt Galla
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 22, 2011, at 9:35 AM, Eduard
> Hall of fame of the classic 3x3x3x3:
> 15 entries in 2010
> 8 entries in 2011 (last one in august).
> What happens?
>=20
> The classic "24cell face turning":
> the only and last entry mai 2011 (wiki).
> What happens?
>=20
>=20
--Apple-Mail-2--448412411
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=utf-8
am attending my senior year of undergrad earning a double degree in mathem=
atics and engineering. Any free time I have gets dedicated immediately to s=
leep :) Wish I had the time to go through all of the recent 4D puzzles...=
div>
Sent from my iPh=
one
=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20=20=20
15 entries in 2010
8 entries in 2011 (last one in august).
What happens?
The classic "24cell face turning":
the only and last entry mai 2011 (wiki).
What happens?
=20=20=20=20=20
=20=20=20=20
--Apple-Mail-2--448412411--
From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 14:47:51 -0000
Subject: Re: 24cell FT
I have finished now the 96 2C face centers of the 24cell FT. I needed 8121 =
moves compared to the about 800 moves of Nan for the same thing. This is a =
little bit frustrating but not enough to stop my efforts. Now I tackle the =
96 3C edges. I have already a 3 cycle. The same 3 cycle executed 3 times gi=
ves a 3 cycle for the 2C face-sides.
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
>
> I have started to solve =8424cell FT". Until now only Nan Ma did it in ab=
out 54'000 moves.
> Forst I place at home the 2 colored face elements. There are 96. For 52 f=
aces I needed 5300 moves. Replaying the log file of Nan I see that he used =
only about 750 moves for all faces. Most of his moves are dedicated to plac=
e the 2 colored face-corner elements different from the face elements (13'0=
00 to 54'000).
> My technic consists of using a narrow 3 cycle for the faces and a narrow =
2 element flip for faces. I estimate that I will use about 10'000 moves for=
the faces only.
> I observe also when replying Nan's log file that only the very first move=
s show an animation.
> Can anybody help me to understand these things? ;-)
>
From: "Andrey" <andreyastrelin@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2011 15:04:33 -0000
Subject: Re: 24cell FT
I've also finished 2C centers. It took about 570 twists (and no macros at a=
ll). Now work with 3Cs - finished 5 cells of 24. Comparing with 120-cell it=
looks not difficult at all - but the most interesting things are still ahe=
ad :)=20
Andrey
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
>
> I have finished now the 96 2C face centers of the 24cell FT. I needed 812=
1 moves compared to the about 800 moves of Nan for the same thing. This is =
a little bit frustrating but not enough to stop my efforts. Now I tackle th=
e 96 3C edges. I have already a 3 cycle. The same 3 cycle executed 3 times =
gives a 3 cycle for the 2C face-sides.
>=20
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
> >
> > I have started to solve =8424cell FT". Until now only Nan Ma did it in =
about 54'000 moves.
> > Forst I place at home the 2 colored face elements. There are 96. For 52=
faces I needed 5300 moves. Replaying the log file of Nan I see that he use=
d only about 750 moves for all faces. Most of his moves are dedicated to pl=
ace the 2 colored face-corner elements different from the face elements (13=
'000 to 54'000).
> > My technic consists of using a narrow 3 cycle for the faces and a narro=
w 2 element flip for faces. I estimate that I will use about 10'000 moves f=
or the faces only.
> > I observe also when replying Nan's log file that only the very first mo=
ves show an animation.
> > Can anybody help me to understand these things? ;-)
> >
>
From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 19:14:15 -0000
Subject: Re: 24cell FT
24cell FT
After having sucessfully finished the 96 2-colored face centers I'm tacklin=
g the 96 3-colored edges. With my 3-cycle for edges (keeping the face cente=
rs) I brought home two edges and they where not mirrored by chance. Then th=
e three following edges arrived mirrored at home!
By chance I discovered how to turn edges on place (my pair flipping macro f=
or face centers executed three times yields a turn of three edges on place)=
. But we must distinguish between turning (c1,c2,c3) and mirroring (c1)(c2,=
c3) in cycle notation. c1,c2and c3 are the three colors of an edge. Is that=
right (Nan, Andrey)? It is very difficult to imaging a walk so that an edg=
e returns mirrored at home. I need such a walk to construct a mirroring mac=
ro for edges. Who wants help me?
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Andrey"
>
> I've also finished 2C centers. It took about 570 twists (and no macros at=
all). Now work with 3Cs - finished 5 cells of 24. Comparing with 120-cell =
it looks not difficult at all - but the most interesting things are still a=
head :)=20
>=20
> Andrey
>=20
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
> >
> > I have finished now the 96 2C face centers of the 24cell FT. I needed 8=
121 moves compared to the about 800 moves of Nan for the same thing. This i=
s a little bit frustrating but not enough to stop my efforts. Now I tackle =
the 96 3C edges. I have already a 3 cycle. The same 3 cycle executed 3 time=
s gives a 3 cycle for the 2C face-sides.
> >=20
> > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
> > >
> > > I have started to solve =8424cell FT". Until now only Nan Ma did it i=
n about 54'000 moves.
> > > Forst I place at home the 2 colored face elements. There are 96. For =
52 faces I needed 5300 moves. Replaying the log file of Nan I see that he u=
sed only about 750 moves for all faces. Most of his moves are dedicated to =
place the 2 colored face-corner elements different from the face elements (=
13'000 to 54'000).
> > > My technic consists of using a narrow 3 cycle for the faces and a nar=
row 2 element flip for faces. I estimate that I will use about 10'000 moves=
for the faces only.
> > > I observe also when replying Nan's log file that only the very first =
moves show an animation.
> > > Can anybody help me to understand these things? ;-)
> > >
> >
>
From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 22:31:20 -0000
Subject: Re: 24cell FT
I have found the solution to my problem! To get an edge mirrored in "24cell=
FT" the walk must go AROUND the whole 24cell. That's very fascinating!
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
>
> 24cell FT
>=20
> After having sucessfully finished the 96 2-colored face centers I'm tackl=
ing the 96 3-colored edges. With my 3-cycle for edges (keeping the face cen=
ters) I brought home two edges and they where not mirrored by chance. Then =
the three following edges arrived mirrored at home!
> By chance I discovered how to turn edges on place (my pair flipping macro=
for face centers executed three times yields a turn of three edges on plac=
e). But we must distinguish between turning (c1,c2,c3) and mirroring (c1)(c=
2,c3) in cycle notation. c1,c2and c3 are the three colors of an edge. Is th=
at right (Nan, Andrey)? It is very difficult to imaging a walk so that an e=
dge returns mirrored at home. I need such a walk to construct a mirroring m=
acro for edges. Who wants help me?
>=20
>=20
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Andrey"
> >
> > I've also finished 2C centers. It took about 570 twists (and no macros =
at all). Now work with 3Cs - finished 5 cells of 24. Comparing with 120-cel=
l it looks not difficult at all - but the most interesting things are still=
ahead :)=20
> >=20
> > Andrey
> >=20
> > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
> > >
> > > I have finished now the 96 2C face centers of the 24cell FT. I needed=
8121 moves compared to the about 800 moves of Nan for the same thing. This=
is a little bit frustrating but not enough to stop my efforts. Now I tackl=
e the 96 3C edges. I have already a 3 cycle. The same 3 cycle executed 3 ti=
mes gives a 3 cycle for the 2C face-sides.
> > >=20
> > > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
> > > >
> > > > I have started to solve =8424cell FT". Until now only Nan Ma did it=
in about 54'000 moves.
> > > > Forst I place at home the 2 colored face elements. There are 96. Fo=
r 52 faces I needed 5300 moves. Replaying the log file of Nan I see that he=
used only about 750 moves for all faces. Most of his moves are dedicated t=
o place the 2 colored face-corner elements different from the face elements=
(13'000 to 54'000).
> > > > My technic consists of using a narrow 3 cycle for the faces and a n=
arrow 2 element flip for faces. I estimate that I will use about 10'000 mov=
es for the faces only.
> > > > I observe also when replying Nan's log file that only the very firs=
t moves show an animation.
> > > > Can anybody help me to understand these things? ;-)
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
From: "schuma" <mananself@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 08 Nov 2011 22:32:33 -0000
Subject: Re: 24cell FT
Hi Eduard,
Maybe I didn't get you right but isn't clicking on sticker c1 doing (c1)(c2=
,c3)? So if you have a permutation sequence X which intersects the cell of =
c1 with only one 3C piece, then the commutator=20
X, (clicking c1), X', (clicking c1)=20
will flip two 3C pieces. Is this what you need?=20
Nan
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
>
> 24cell FT
>=20
> After having sucessfully finished the 96 2-colored face centers I'm tackl=
ing the 96 3-colored edges. With my 3-cycle for edges (keeping the face cen=
ters) I brought home two edges and they where not mirrored by chance. Then =
the three following edges arrived mirrored at home!
> By chance I discovered how to turn edges on place (my pair flipping macro=
for face centers executed three times yields a turn of three edges on plac=
e). But we must distinguish between turning (c1,c2,c3) and mirroring (c1)(c=
2,c3) in cycle notation. c1,c2and c3 are the three colors of an edge. Is th=
at right (Nan, Andrey)? It is very difficult to imaging a walk so that an e=
dge returns mirrored at home. I need such a walk to construct a mirroring m=
acro for edges. Who wants help me?
>=20
From: "Eduard Baumann" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 18:01:11 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: 24cell FT
------=_NextPart_000_002C_01CC9F09.9085ED80
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, thanks for the valuable hint.
The walk around (or better through) the whole 24cell is unnecessary complic=
ated but is still an interesting and fascinating fact.
Ed
----- Original Message -----=20
From: schuma=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 11:32 PM
Subject: [MC4D] Re: 24cell FT
=20=20=20=20
Hi Eduard,
Maybe I didn't get you right but isn't clicking on sticker c1 doing (c1)(=
c2,c3)? So if you have a permutation sequence X which intersects the cell o=
f c1 with only one 3C piece, then the commutator=20
X, (clicking c1), X', (clicking c1)=20
will flip two 3C pieces. Is this what you need?=20
Nan
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
>
> 24cell FT
>=20
> After having sucessfully finished the 96 2-colored face centers I'm tac=
kling the 96 3-colored edges. With my 3-cycle for edges (keeping the face c=
enters) I brought home two edges and they where not mirrored by chance. The=
n the three following edges arrived mirrored at home!
> By chance I discovered how to turn edges on place (my pair flipping mac=
ro for face centers executed three times yields a turn of three edges on pl=
ace). But we must distinguish between turning (c1,c2,c3) and mirroring (c1)=
(c2,c3) in cycle notation. c1,c2and c3 are the three colors of an edge. Is =
that right (Nan, Andrey)? It is very difficult to imaging a walk so that an=
edge returns mirrored at home. I need such a walk to construct a mirroring=
macro for edges. Who wants help me?
>=20
=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_002C_01CC9F09.9085ED80
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
/DIV>
ole=20
24cell is unnecessary complicated but is still an interesting and fascinati=
ng=20
fact.
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
schuma=
=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>
1:32=20
PM
Maybe I didn't get you right but isn't clicking on=20
sticker c1 doing (c1)(c2,c3)? So if you have a permutation sequence X whi=
ch=20
intersects the cell of c1 with only one 3C piece, then the commutator=20
X, (clicking c1), X', (clicking c1)
will flip two 3C piec=
es.=20
Is this what you need?
Nan
--- In href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com,=
=20
"Eduard" <baumann@...> wrote:
>
> 24cell FT
>
>>=20
After having sucessfully finished the 96 2-colored face centers I'm tackl=
ing=20
the 96 3-colored edges. With my 3-cycle for edges (keeping the face cente=
rs) I=20
brought home two edges and they where not mirrored by chance. Then the th=
ree=20
following edges arrived mirrored at home!
> By chance I discovered =
how=20
to turn edges on place (my pair flipping macro for face centers executed =
three=20
times yields a turn of three edges on place). But we must distinguish bet=
ween=20
turning (c1,c2,c3) and mirroring (c1)(c2,c3) in cycle notation. c1,c2and =
c3=20
are the three colors of an edge. Is that right (Nan, Andrey)? It is very=
=20
difficult to imaging a walk so that an edge returns mirrored at home. I n=
eed=20
such a walk to construct a mirroring macro for edges. Who wants help=20
me?
>
------=_NextPart_000_002C_01CC9F09.9085ED80--
From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 23:35:21 -0000
Subject: Re: 24cell FT
Work with 3Cs - I have also finished 5 cells of 24. Ed, :)=20
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Andrey"
>
> I've also finished 2C centers. It took about 570 twists (and no macros at=
all). Now work with 3Cs - finished 5 cells of 24. Comparing with 120-cell =
it looks not difficult at all - but the most interesting things are still a=
head :)=20
>=20
> Andrey
>=20
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
> >
> > I have finished now the 96 2C face centers of the 24cell FT. I needed 8=
121 moves compared to the about 800 moves of Nan for the same thing. This i=
s a little bit frustrating but not enough to stop my efforts. Now I tackle =
the 96 3C edges. I have already a 3 cycle. The same 3 cycle executed 3 time=
s gives a 3 cycle for the 2C face-sides.
> >=20
> > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
> > >
> > > I have started to solve =8424cell FT". Until now only Nan Ma did it i=
n about 54'000 moves.
> > > Forst I place at home the 2 colored face elements. There are 96. For =
52 faces I needed 5300 moves. Replaying the log file of Nan I see that he u=
sed only about 750 moves for all faces. Most of his moves are dedicated to =
place the 2 colored face-corner elements different from the face elements (=
13'000 to 54'000).
> > > My technic consists of using a narrow 3 cycle for the faces and a nar=
row 2 element flip for faces. I estimate that I will use about 10'000 moves=
for the faces only.
> > > I observe also when replying Nan's log file that only the very first =
moves show an animation.
> > > Can anybody help me to understand these things? ;-)
> > >
> >
>
From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 23:41:01 -0000
Subject: Re: 24cell FT
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
> Work with 3Cs - I have also finished 5 cells of 24 (16 415 moves). Ed.=20
> I have found the solution to my problem! To get an edge mirrored in "24ce=
ll FT" the walk must go AROUND the whole 24cell. That's very fascinating!
>=20
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
> >
> > 24cell FT
> >=20
> > After having sucessfully finished the 96 2-colored face centers I'm tac=
kling the 96 3-colored edges. With my 3-cycle for edges (keeping the face c=
enters) I brought home two edges and they where not mirrored by chance. The=
n the three following edges arrived mirrored at home!
> > By chance I discovered how to turn edges on place (my pair flipping mac=
ro for face centers executed three times yields a turn of three edges on pl=
ace). But we must distinguish between turning (c1,c2,c3) and mirroring (c1)=
(c2,c3) in cycle notation. c1,c2and c3 are the three colors of an edge. Is =
that right (Nan, Andrey)? It is very difficult to imaging a walk so that an=
edge returns mirrored at home. I need such a walk to construct a mirroring=
macro for edges. Who wants help me?
> >=20
> >=20
> > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Andrey"
> > >
> > > I've also finished 2C centers. It took about 570 twists (and no macro=
s at all). Now work with 3Cs - finished 5 cells of 24. Comparing with 120-c=
ell it looks not difficult at all - but the most interesting things are sti=
ll ahead :)=20
> > >=20
> > > Andrey
> > >=20
> > > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
> > > >
> > > > I have finished now the 96 2C face centers of the 24cell FT. I need=
ed 8121 moves compared to the about 800 moves of Nan for the same thing. Th=
is is a little bit frustrating but not enough to stop my efforts. Now I tac=
kle the 96 3C edges. I have already a 3 cycle. The same 3 cycle executed 3 =
times gives a 3 cycle for the 2C face-sides.
> > > >=20
> > > > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
> > > > >
> > > > > I have started to solve =8424cell FT". Until now only Nan Ma did =
it in about 54'000 moves.
> > > > > Forst I place at home the 2 colored face elements. There are 96. =
For 52 faces I needed 5300 moves. Replaying the log file of Nan I see that =
he used only about 750 moves for all faces. Most of his moves are dedicated=
to place the 2 colored face-corner elements different from the face elemen=
ts (13'000 to 54'000).
> > > > > My technic consists of using a narrow 3 cycle for the faces and a=
narrow 2 element flip for faces. I estimate that I will use about 10'000 m=
oves for the faces only.
> > > > > I observe also when replying Nan's log file that only the very fi=
rst moves show an animation.
> > > > > Can anybody help me to understand these things? ;-)
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 10:49:54 -0000
Subject: Re: 24cell FT
I'm still solving with great pleasure the "24cell FT". I have solved 96 2C =
face centers, 96 3C edges and 96 2C face sides sofar and I'm approaching th=
e 50% of the puzzle. My move count is 390'000 and the elapsed time 42h45. N=
an has reached 54'000 moves and 9h25 for the whole. And Andrey is even bett=
er. I will use estimated 1 Mio moves to finish. I think that Nan and Andrey=
must use external computer program power and advise or do extremely sophis=
ticated setup's. Is that so?
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
>
> Work with 3Cs - I have also finished 5 cells of 24. Ed, :)=20
>=20
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Andrey"
> >
> > I've also finished 2C centers. It took about 570 twists (and no macros =
at all). Now work with 3Cs - finished 5 cells of 24. Comparing with 120-cel=
l it looks not difficult at all - but the most interesting things are still=
ahead :)=20
> >=20
> > Andrey
> >=20
> > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
> > >
> > > I have finished now the 96 2C face centers of the 24cell FT. I needed=
8121 moves compared to the about 800 moves of Nan for the same thing. This=
is a little bit frustrating but not enough to stop my efforts. Now I tackl=
e the 96 3C edges. I have already a 3 cycle. The same 3 cycle executed 3 ti=
mes gives a 3 cycle for the 2C face-sides.
> > >=20
> > > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
> > > >
> > > > I have started to solve =8424cell FT". Until now only Nan Ma did it=
in about 54'000 moves.
> > > > Forst I place at home the 2 colored face elements. There are 96. Fo=
r 52 faces I needed 5300 moves. Replaying the log file of Nan I see that he=
used only about 750 moves for all faces. Most of his moves are dedicated t=
o place the 2 colored face-corner elements different from the face elements=
(13'000 to 54'000).
> > > > My technic consists of using a narrow 3 cycle for the faces and a n=
arrow 2 element flip for faces. I estimate that I will use about 10'000 mov=
es for the faces only.
> > > > I observe also when replying Nan's log file that only the very firs=
t moves show an animation.
> > > > Can anybody help me to understand these things? ;-)
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
From: "Andrey" <andreyastrelin@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 20:19:49 -0000
Subject: Re: 24cell FT
No, I've used nothing special. My technique on all levels is the same: assu=
me that I've solved some types of pieces and now work on the next type. And=
that the puzzle is large enough and has a couple of cells twists of which =
don't intersect.
Select some cell F and some piece f of the desired type. Find a sequence of=
twists R that moves f on another cell G and there are no other pieces orig=
inally from layer F that are in layer G now. If you are successful, build m=
acro (R G R' F R G' R' F') where F and G are some twists of the correspondi=
ng cells - it will be 3-loop of your type of pieces, that moves two pieces =
from F and one piece from somewhere else. Usually I add some setup sequence=
to this macro so that 3rd piece appears in some convenient position.
Then I solve puzzle face-by-face: move all pieces of the current type tha=
t have color F to face F (using 3-cycles), and then sort them inside F usin=
g half-macros (R G R') and (R G' R') with twists of F between.
If you can't find macro R in the first place, try 3-cycle from the previo=
us stage. It moves only one piece of previous type and some pieces of the c=
urrent type outside of F, so it will be more easy to find/make suitable cel=
l G for the R macro. And if your 3-loop doesn't move any pieces of the curr=
ent type, then you've selected wrong order of solving: switch off pieces of=
previous type, find R for new type, solve it, and then solve previous type=
by using your macro - it will not move pieces of new type.
Something like that. It should work for all shallow-cut puzzles other tha=
n simplex, {3,3}-duoprism and some other small puzzles.
Andrey
From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 17:37:36 -0000
Subject: Re: 24cell FT
--7-5489900131-3125429326=:4
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have solved now (as third person) the "24cell FT" with much more
twists (about 10 millions) than Nan and Andrey. So the log file is big:
90MB. I had to zip it before sending it to the 4D cubing group. My log
file
For me the "24call FT" is the most beautyful of these virtual 4D
twisting puzzles (and similars). It is the only regular convex 4D
polytope which has no equivalent in 4D. The face turning mode is the
most natural one. "24cell FT" is about 5 times more difficult to handle
than the 3x3x3x3 and less lengthy than the 120cell.
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
>
> I'm still solving with great pleasure the "24cell FT". I have solved
96 2C face centers, 96 3C edges and 96 2C face sides sofar and I'm
approaching the 50% of the puzzle. My move count is 390'000 and the
elapsed time 42h45. Nan has reached 54'000 moves and 9h25 for the whole.
And Andrey is even better. I will use estimated 1 Mio moves to finish. I
think that Nan and Andrey must use external computer program power and
advise or do extremely sophisticated setup's. Is that so?
>
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" baumann@ wrote:
> >
> > Work with 3Cs - I have also finished 5 cells of 24. Ed, :)
> >
> > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Andrey"
> > >
> > > I've also finished 2C centers. It took about 570 twists (and no
macros at all). Now work with 3Cs - finished 5 cells of 24. Comparing
with 120-cell it looks not difficult at all - but the most interesting
things are still ahead :)
> > >
> > > Andrey
> > >
> > > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
> > > >
> > > > I have finished now the 96 2C face centers of the 24cell FT. I
needed 8121 moves compared to the about 800 moves of Nan for the same
thing. This is a little bit frustrating but not enough to stop my
efforts. Now I tackle the 96 3C edges. I have already a 3 cycle. The
same 3 cycle executed 3 times gives a 3 cycle for the 2C face-sides.
> > > >
> > > > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
> > > > >
> > > > > I have started to solve =8424cell FT". Until now only Nan Ma
did it in about 54'000 moves.
> > > > > Forst I place at home the 2 colored face elements. There are
96. For 52 faces I needed 5300 moves. Replaying the log file of Nan I
see that he used only about 750 moves for all faces. Most of his moves
are dedicated to place the 2 colored face-corner elements different from
the face elements (13'000 to 54'000).
> > > > > My technic consists of using a narrow 3 cycle for the faces
and a narrow 2 element flip for faces. I estimate that I will use about
10'000 moves for the faces only.
> > > > > I observe also when replying Nan's log file that only the very
first moves show an animation.
> > > > > Can anybody help me to understand these things? ;-)
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
--7-5489900131-3125429326=:4
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
s (about 10 millions) than Nan and Andrey. So the log file is big: 90MB. I =
had to zip it before sending it to the 4D cubing group. .yimg.com/kq/static/images/yg/img/doc/zip.gif">My log file
g puzzles (and similars). It is the only regular convex 4D polytope which h=
as no equivalent in 4D. The face turning mode is the most natural one. "24c=
ell FT" is about 5 times more difficult to handle than the 3x3x3x3 and less=
lengthy than the 120cell.
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" <baumann@...> wrote=
:
>
> I'm still solving with great pleasure the "24cell FT". I =
have solved 96 2C face centers, 96 3C edges and 96 2C face sides sofar and =
I'm approaching the 50% of the puzzle. My move count is 390'000 and the ela=
psed time 42h45. Nan has reached 54'000 moves and 9h25 for the whole. And A=
ndrey is even better. I will use estimated 1 Mio moves to finish. I think t=
hat Nan and Andrey must use external computer program power and advise or d=
o extremely sophisticated setup's. Is that so?
>
> --- In 4D_C=
ubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" baumann@ wrote:
> >
> > W=
ork with 3Cs - I have also finished 5 cells of 24. Ed, :)
> >
>> > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Andrey" <andreyastrelin@&g=
t; wrote:
> > >
> > > I've also finished 2C centers=
. It took about 570 twists (and no macros at all). Now work with 3Cs - fini=
shed 5 cells of 24. Comparing with 120-cell it looks not difficult at all -=
but the most interesting things are still ahead :)
> > >
=
> > > Andrey
> > >
> > > --- In 4D_Cubing=
@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" <baumann@> wrote:
> > > >R>> > > > I have finished now the 96 2C face centers of the 24c=
ell FT. I needed 8121 moves compared to the about 800 moves of Nan for the =
same thing. This is a little bit frustrating but not enough to stop my effo=
rts. Now I tackle the 96 3C edges. I have already a 3 cycle. The same 3 cyc=
le executed 3 times gives a 3 cycle for the 2C face-sides.
> > >=
; >
> > > > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" &=
lt;baumann@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > &=
gt; I have started to solve =8424cell FT". Until now only Nan Ma did it in =
about 54'000 moves.
> > > > > Forst I place at home the 2=
colored face elements. There are 96. For 52 faces I needed 5300 moves. Rep=
laying the log file of Nan I see that he used only about 750 moves for all =
faces. Most of his moves are dedicated to place the 2 colored face-corner e=
lements different from the face elements (13'000 to 54'000).
> > &=
gt; > > My technic consists of using a narrow 3 cycle for the faces a=
nd a narrow 2 element flip for faces. I estimate that I will use about 10'0=
00 moves for the faces only.
> > > > > I observe also whe=
n replying Nan's log file that only the very first moves show an animation.=
> > > > > Can anybody help me to understand these things=
? ;-)
> > > > >
> > > >
> > ><=
BR>> >
>
--7-5489900131-3125429326=:4--
From: Melinda Green <melinda@superliminal.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 12:03:53 -0800
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: 24cell FT
--------------060308060004090705090300
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Congratulations, Ed!!!
This was a mighty solution. I got your solution file and unpacked it
just fine. It's funny because it doesn't look that big at all when I
scroll around in it but I guess it really does contain 10 million
twists. Let this be a notice to everyone that unless you are attempting
a shortest solution, length does not matter at all. A solution is a
solution however you manage it and you should feel no less proud to make
heavy use of macros you develop.
Yes, the 24-cell is special. When you said it has no equivalent in 4D I
think you mean that it has no analog in any other dimension. 4-space has
the most regular polytopes and this one sits smack in the middle and is
also self-dual so in many ways it is the ultimate regular polytope. The
jewel in the middle of the crown. Of course lots of other polytopes have
special features like the simplexes, 120-cell, Klein's Quartic, etc.,
but if I were a serious puzzle solver I would definitely want to have
conquered this rare and terrible beauty.
So any closing thoughts on your experience? Very few people even attempt
this monster so I'm sure that the rest of us will relish every word from
the intrepid explorers like yourself who wrestle it into submission.
Congratulations again,
-Melinda
On 12/16/2011 9:37 AM, Eduard wrote:
> I have solved now (as third person) the "24cell FT" with much more
> twists (about 10 millions) than Nan and Andrey. So the log file is
> big: 90MB. I had to zip it before sending it to the 4D cubing group.
> My log file
>
> For me the "24call FT" is the most beautyful of these virtual 4D
> twisting puzzles (and similars). It is the only regular convex 4D
> polytope which has no equivalent in 4D. The face turning mode is the
> most natural one. "24cell FT" is about 5 times more difficult to
> handle than the 3x3x3x3 and less lengthy than the 120cell.
>
>
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
> >
> > I'm still solving with great pleasure the "24cell FT". I have solved
> 96 2C face centers, 96 3C edges and 96 2C face sides sofar and I'm
> approaching the 50% of the puzzle. My move count is 390'000 and the
> elapsed time 42h45. Nan has reached 54'000 moves and 9h25 for the
> whole. And Andrey is even better. I will use estimated 1 Mio moves to
> finish. I think that Nan and Andrey must use external computer program
> power and advise or do extremely sophisticated setup's. Is that so?
> >
> > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" baumann@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Work with 3Cs - I have also finished 5 cells of 24. Ed, :)
> > >
> > > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Andrey"
> > > >
> > > > I've also finished 2C centers. It took about 570 twists (and no
> macros at all). Now work with 3Cs - finished 5 cells of 24. Comparing
> with 120-cell it looks not difficult at all - but the most interesting
> things are still ahead :)
> > > >
> > > > Andrey
> > > >
> > > > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
> > > > >
> > > > > I have finished now the 96 2C face centers of the 24cell FT. I
> needed 8121 moves compared to the about 800 moves of Nan for the same
> thing. This is a little bit frustrating but not enough to stop my
> efforts. Now I tackle the 96 3C edges. I have already a 3 cycle. The
> same 3 cycle executed 3 times gives a 3 cycle for the 2C face-sides.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have started to solve "24cell FT". Until now only Nan Ma
> did it in about 54'000 moves.
> > > > > > Forst I place at home the 2 colored face elements. There are
> 96. For 52 faces I needed 5300 moves. Replaying the log file of Nan I
> see that he used only about 750 moves for all faces. Most of his moves
> are dedicated to place the 2 colored face-corner elements different
> from the face elements (13'000 to 54'000).
> > > > > > My technic consists of using a narrow 3 cycle for the faces
> and a narrow 2 element flip for faces. I estimate that I will use
> about 10'000 moves for the faces only.
> > > > > > I observe also when replying Nan's log file that only the
> very first moves show an animation.
> > > > > > Can anybody help me to understand these things? ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
--------------060308060004090705090300
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
http-equiv="Content-Type">
Congratulations, Ed!!!
This was a mighty solution. I got your solution file and unpacked it
just fine. It's funny because it doesn't look that big at all when I
scroll around in it but I guess it really does contain 10 million
twists. Let this be a notice to everyone that unless you are
attempting a shortest solution, length does not matter at all. A
solution is a solution however you manage it and you should feel no
less proud to make heavy use of macros you develop.
Yes, the 24-cell is special. When you said it has no equivalent in
4D I think you mean that it has no analog in any other dimension.
4-space has the most regular polytopes and this one sits smack in
the middle and is also self-dual so in many ways it is the ultimate
regular polytope. The jewel in the middle of the crown. Of course
lots of other polytopes have special features like the simplexes,
120-cell, Klein's Quartic, etc., but if I were a serious puzzle
solver I would definitely want to have conquered this rare and
terrible beauty.
So any closing thoughts on your experience? Very few people even
attempt this monster so I'm sure that the rest of us will relish
every word from the intrepid explorers like yourself who wrestle it
into submission.
Congratulations again,
-Melinda
On 12/16/2011 9:37 AM, Eduard wrote:
I have
solved now (as third person) the "24cell FT" with much more twists
(about 10 millions) than Nan and Andrey. So the log file is big:
90MB. I had to zip it before sending it to the 4D cubing group. moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://l.yimg.com/kq/static/images/yg/img/doc/zip.gif">My
log file
4D twisting puzzles (and similars). It is the only regular
convex 4D polytope which has no equivalent in 4D. The face
turning mode is the most natural one. "24cell FT" is about 5
times more difficult to handle than the 3x3x3x3 and less lengthy
than the 120cell.
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" <baumann@...>
wrote:
>
> I'm still solving with great pleasure the "24cell FT". I
have solved 96 2C face centers, 96 3C edges and 96 2C face sides
sofar and I'm approaching the 50% of the puzzle. My move count
is 390'000 and the elapsed time 42h45. Nan has reached 54'000
moves and 9h25 for the whole. And Andrey is even better. I will
use estimated 1 Mio moves to finish. I think that Nan and Andrey
must use external computer program power and advise or do
extremely sophisticated setup's. Is that so?
>
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" baumann@ wrote:
> >
> > Work with 3Cs - I have also finished 5 cells of 24.
Ed, :)
> >
> > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Andrey"
<andreyastrelin@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I've also finished 2C centers. It took about 570
twists (and no macros at all). Now work with 3Cs - finished 5
cells of 24. Comparing with 120-cell it looks not difficult at
all - but the most interesting things are still ahead :)
> > >
> > > Andrey
> > >
> > > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
<baumann@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have finished now the 96 2C face centers
of the 24cell FT. I needed 8121 moves compared to the about 800
moves of Nan for the same thing. This is a little bit
frustrating but not enough to stop my efforts. Now I tackle the
96 3C edges. I have already a 3 cycle. The same 3 cycle executed
3 times gives a 3 cycle for the 2C face-sides.
> > > >
> > > > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
<baumann@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I have started to solve „24cell FT".
Until now only Nan Ma did it in about 54'000 moves.
> > > > > Forst I place at home the 2 colored
face elements. There are 96. For 52 faces I needed 5300 moves.
Replaying the log file of Nan I see that he used only about 750
moves for all faces. Most of his moves are dedicated to place
the 2 colored face-corner elements different from the face
elements (13'000 to 54'000).
> > > > > My technic consists of using a narrow 3
cycle for the faces and a narrow 2 element flip for faces. I
estimate that I will use about 10'000 moves for the faces only.
> > > > > I observe also when replying Nan's log
file that only the very first moves show an animation.
> > > > > Can anybody help me to understand these
things? ;-)
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
--------------060308060004090705090300--
From: "schuma" <mananself@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 20:38:02 -0000
Subject: Re: 24cell FT
Congratulations! You made it!
This may be the longest solution for any twisty puzzle in history. I don't =
think "length does not matter at all" for this solution, because this is a =
historic record. It reminds me of the story of Graham Parker, who solved th=
e Rubik's cube after 26 years of trying:
Even he may not have made 10 million twists. This is not about efficiency a=
ny more. It's more about enthusiasm and determination. Of course it's much =
easier with macros, but it's still a record.
Congrats again!
Nan
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
>
>=20
>=20
>=20
> I have solved now (as third person) the "24cell FT" with much more
> twists (about 10 millions) than Nan and Andrey. So the log file is big:
> 90MB. I had to zip it before sending it to the 4D cubing group. My log
> file
>=20
> For me the "24call FT" is the most beautyful of these virtual 4D
> twisting puzzles (and similars). It is the only regular convex 4D
> polytope which has no equivalent in 4D. The face turning mode is the
> most natural one. "24cell FT" is about 5 times more difficult to handle
> than the 3x3x3x3 and less lengthy than the 120cell.
>=20
>=20
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
> >
> > I'm still solving with great pleasure the "24cell FT". I have solved
> 96 2C face centers, 96 3C edges and 96 2C face sides sofar and I'm
> approaching the 50% of the puzzle. My move count is 390'000 and the
> elapsed time 42h45. Nan has reached 54'000 moves and 9h25 for the whole.
> And Andrey is even better. I will use estimated 1 Mio moves to finish. I
> think that Nan and Andrey must use external computer program power and
> advise or do extremely sophisticated setup's. Is that so?
> >
> > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" baumann@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Work with 3Cs - I have also finished 5 cells of 24. Ed, :)
> > >
> > > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Andrey"
> > > >
> > > > I've also finished 2C centers. It took about 570 twists (and no
> macros at all). Now work with 3Cs - finished 5 cells of 24. Comparing
> with 120-cell it looks not difficult at all - but the most interesting
> things are still ahead :)
> > > >
> > > > Andrey
> > > >
> > > > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
> > > > >
> > > > > I have finished now the 96 2C face centers of the 24cell FT. I
> needed 8121 moves compared to the about 800 moves of Nan for the same
> thing. This is a little bit frustrating but not enough to stop my
> efforts. Now I tackle the 96 3C edges. I have already a 3 cycle. The
> same 3 cycle executed 3 times gives a 3 cycle for the 2C face-sides.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have started to solve =EF=BF=BD24cell FT". Until now only Nan=
Ma
> did it in about 54'000 moves.
> > > > > > Forst I place at home the 2 colored face elements. There are
> 96. For 52 faces I needed 5300 moves. Replaying the log file of Nan I
> see that he used only about 750 moves for all faces. Most of his moves
> are dedicated to place the 2 colored face-corner elements different from
> the face elements (13'000 to 54'000).
> > > > > > My technic consists of using a narrow 3 cycle for the faces
> and a narrow 2 element flip for faces. I estimate that I will use about
> 10'000 moves for the faces only.
> > > > > > I observe also when replying Nan's log file that only the very
> first moves show an animation.
> > > > > > Can anybody help me to understand these things? ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
From: "Eduard Baumann" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 11:51:11 +0100
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: 24cell FT
------=_NextPart_000_0022_01CCBCB2.2C42AEF0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks.
Yes, there was a typo. Should be
...which has no equivalent in 3D.
instead of
...which has no equivalent in 4D.
More about my 24c solve will follow.
Kind regards
Ed
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Melinda Green=20
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=20
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 9:03 PM
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: 24cell FT
=20=20=20=20
Congratulations, Ed!!!
This was a mighty solution. I got your solution file and unpacked it just=
fine. It's funny because it doesn't look that big at all when I scroll aro=
und in it but I guess it really does contain 10 million twists. Let this be=
a notice to everyone that unless you are attempting a shortest solution, l=
ength does not matter at all. A solution is a solution however you manage i=
t and you should feel no less proud to make heavy use of macros you develop=
.
Yes, the 24-cell is special. When you said it has no equivalent in 4D I t=
hink you mean that it has no analog in any other dimension. 4-space has the=
most regular polytopes and this one sits smack in the middle and is also s=
elf-dual so in many ways it is the ultimate regular polytope. The jewel in =
the middle of the crown. Of course lots of other polytopes have special fea=
tures like the simplexes, 120-cell, Klein's Quartic, etc., but if I were a =
serious puzzle solver I would definitely want to have conquered this rare a=
nd terrible beauty.
So any closing thoughts on your experience? Very few people even attempt =
this monster so I'm sure that the rest of us will relish every word from th=
e intrepid explorers like yourself who wrestle it into submission.
Congratulations again,
-Melinda
On 12/16/2011 9:37 AM, Eduard wrote:=20
I have solved now (as third person) the "24cell FT" with much more twis=
ts (about 10 millions) than Nan and Andrey. So the log file is big: 90MB. I=
had to zip it before sending it to the 4D cubing group. My log file=20=20
For me the "24call FT" is the most beautyful of these virtual 4D twisti=
ng puzzles (and similars). It is the only regular convex 4D polytope which =
has no equivalent in 4D. The face turning mode is the most natural one. "24=
cell FT" is about 5 times more difficult to handle than the 3x3x3x3 and les=
s lengthy than the 120cell.
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
>
> I'm still solving with great pleasure the "24cell FT". I have solved =
96 2C face centers, 96 3C edges and 96 2C face sides sofar and I'm approach=
ing the 50% of the puzzle. My move count is 390'000 and the elapsed time 42=
h45. Nan has reached 54'000 moves and 9h25 for the whole. And Andrey is eve=
n better. I will use estimated 1 Mio moves to finish. I think that Nan and =
Andrey must use external computer program power and advise or do extremely =
sophisticated setup's. Is that so?
>=20
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" baumann@ wrote:
> >
> > Work with 3Cs - I have also finished 5 cells of 24. Ed, :)=20
> >=20
> > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Andrey"
> > >
> > > I've also finished 2C centers. It took about 570 twists (and no m=
acros at all). Now work with 3Cs - finished 5 cells of 24. Comparing with 1=
20-cell it looks not difficult at all - but the most interesting things are=
still ahead :)=20
> > >=20
> > > Andrey
> > >=20
> > > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
> > > >
> > > > I have finished now the 96 2C face centers of the 24cell FT. I =
needed 8121 moves compared to the about 800 moves of Nan for the same thing=
. This is a little bit frustrating but not enough to stop my efforts. Now I=
tackle the 96 3C edges. I have already a 3 cycle. The same 3 cycle execute=
d 3 times gives a 3 cycle for the 2C face-sides.
> > > >=20
> > > > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
> > > > >
> > > > > I have started to solve "24cell FT". Until now only Nan Ma di=
d it in about 54'000 moves.
> > > > > Forst I place at home the 2 colored face elements. There are =
96. For 52 faces I needed 5300 moves. Replaying the log file of Nan I see t=
hat he used only about 750 moves for all faces. Most of his moves are dedic=
ated to place the 2 colored face-corner elements different from the face el=
ements (13'000 to 54'000).
> > > > > My technic consists of using a narrow 3 cycle for the faces a=
nd a narrow 2 element flip for faces. I estimate that I will use about 10'0=
00 moves for the faces only.
> > > > > I observe also when replying Nan's log file that only the ver=
y first moves show an animation.
> > > > > Can anybody help me to understand these things? ;-)
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
=20=20
------=_NextPart_000_0022_01CCBCB2.2C42AEF0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
=20
3D.
=20
4D.
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: =
0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black">Fro=
m:=20
href=3D"mailto:melinda@superliminal.com">Melinda Green
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com <=
/DIV>
03=20
PM
/DIV>
This was a mighty solution. I got your=20
solution file and unpacked it just fine. It's funny because it doesn't lo=
ok=20
that big at all when I scroll around in it but I guess it really does con=
tain=20
10 million twists. Let this be a notice to everyone that unless you are=20
attempting a shortest solution, length does not matter at all. A solution=
is a=20
solution however you manage it and you should feel no less proud to make =
heavy=20
use of macros you develop.
Yes, the 24-cell is special. When you s=
aid=20
it has no equivalent in 4D I think you mean that it has no analog in any =
other=20
dimension. 4-space has the most regular polytopes and this one sits smack=
in=20
the middle and is also self-dual so in many ways it is the ultimate regul=
ar=20
polytope. The jewel in the middle of the crown. Of course lots of other=20
polytopes have special features like the simplexes, 120-cell, Klein's Qua=
rtic,=20
etc., but if I were a serious puzzle solver I would definitely want to ha=
ve=20
conquered this rare and terrible beauty.
So any closing thoughts o=
n=20
your experience? Very few people even attempt this monster so I'm sure th=
at=20
the rest of us will relish every word from the intrepid explorers like=20
yourself who wrestle it into submission.
Congratulations=20
again,
-Melinda
On 12/16/2011 9:37 AM, Eduard wrote:=20
I have solve=
d now=20
(as third person) the "24cell FT" with much more twists (about 10 milli=
ons)=20
than Nan and Andrey. So the log file is big: 90MB. I had to zip it befo=
re=20
sending it to the 4D cubing group. href=3D"http://l.yimg.com/kq/static/images/yg/img/doc/zip.gif" moz=3D"t=
rue">My=20
log file =20
sting=20
puzzles (and similars). It is the only regular convex 4D polytope which=
has=20
no equivalent in 4D. The face turning mode is the most natural one. "24=
cell=20
FT" is about 5 times more difficult to handle than the 3x3x3x3 and less=
=20
lengthy than the 120cell.
--- In href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=
,=20
"Eduard" href=3D"mailto:baumann@..."><baumann@...> wrote:
>
&=
gt; I'm=20
still solving with great pleasure the "24cell FT". I have solved 96 2C =
face=20
centers, 96 3C edges and 96 2C face sides sofar and I'm approaching the=
50%=20
of the puzzle. My move count is 390'000 and the elapsed time 42h45. Nan=
has=20
reached 54'000 moves and 9h25 for the whole. And Andrey is even better.=
I=20
will use estimated 1 Mio moves to finish. I think that Nan and Andrey m=
ust=20
use external computer program power and advise or do extremely sophisti=
cated=20
setup's. Is that so?
>
> --- In class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=
,=20
"Eduard" baumann@ wrote:
> >
> > Work with 3Cs - I ha=
ve=20
also finished 5 cells of 24. Ed, :)
> >
> > --- In =
class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated=20
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=
,=20
"Andrey" <andreyastrelin@> wrote:
> > >
> > =
>=20
I've also finished 2C centers. It took about 570 twists (and no macros =
at=20
all). Now work with 3Cs - finished 5 cells of 24. Comparing with 120-ce=
ll it=20
looks not difficult at all - but the most interesting things are still =
ahead=20
:)
> > >
> > > Andrey
> > >
&=
gt;=20
> > --- In href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=
,=20
"Eduard" <baumann@> wrote:
> > > >
> > &g=
t;=20
> I have finished now the 96 2C face centers of the 24cell FT. I nee=
ded=20
8121 moves compared to the about 800 moves of Nan for the same thing. T=
his=20
is a little bit frustrating but not enough to stop my efforts. Now I ta=
ckle=20
the 96 3C edges. I have already a 3 cycle. The same 3 cycle executed 3 =
times=20
gives a 3 cycle for the 2C face-sides.
> > > >
> =
>=20
> > --- In href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com=
,=20
"Eduard" <baumann@> wrote:
> > > > >
> &g=
t;=20
> > > I have started to solve =8424cell FT". Until now only Na=
n Ma=20
did it in about 54'000 moves.
> > > > > Forst I place=
at=20
home the 2 colored face elements. There are 96. For 52 faces I needed 5=
300=20
moves. Replaying the log file of Nan I see that he used only about 750 =
moves=20
for all faces. Most of his moves are dedicated to place the 2 colored=20
face-corner elements different from the face elements (13'000 to=20
54'000).
> > > > > My technic consists of using a nar=
row 3=20
cycle for the faces and a narrow 2 element flip for faces. I estimate t=
hat I=20
will use about 10'000 moves for the faces only.
> > > > =
>=20
I observe also when replying Nan's log file that only the very first mo=
ves=20
show an animation.
> > > > > Can anybody help me to=20
understand these things? ;-)
> > > > >
> > &=
gt;=20
>
> > >
> >
>
------=_NextPart_000_0022_01CCBCB2.2C42AEF0--
From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 21:24:03 -0000
Subject: [MC4D] Re: 24cell FT
--2-9307464533-6040350627=:8
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Here are some remarks to my 24cell Ft solve.
Treat the cells in a contiguous manner. Allwasy take as next cell a
neighbouring cell.
The strategy is first 96 facecenters, then 96 edges, then 288 facesides,
then 144 subcorners and finally 24 corners.
Facecenters
Two 3-cycle macros c4 and c5.
In 24c FT macros faces
_FT_macros_faces.dat> .
Edges
macro edg5 =3D 3-cycle in same cell
macro edg4 =3D 3-cycle between cells
macro mir22 mirrors an edge on place
In 24c FT macros edges
_FT_macros_edges.dat>
Facesides
3-cycle macros between cells: fc22 and fc24
3-cycle macros within cell keeping the color in this cell: fc18 (one
side) and fc21 (two sides)
In 24c FT macros facesides
_FT_macros_facesides.dat>
(a)
Collect all correct colored stickers of one cell with the "injectors in
a new cell" fc22 or fc24 without paying attention to the ordering within
this cell. Use fc18 and fc21 in the setup's.
(b)
Order the stickers in the cell with fc18 and fc21
Subcorners
Two 3-cycle macros sc11 (3584 long) within a cell and sc6t (21714 long)
between neighbouring cells.
In 24c FT macros subcorners
_FT_macros_subcorners.dat>
Corners
A wide 3-cycle macro c14 (836 long), a narrow 3-cycle macro c17d (4176
long) and a macro c15 (4176 long) which turns two corners on place.
At the very last I was left with only one corner turned on place. This
showed me that in the contrary to the Rubiks cube one corner alone can
be turned. My macro c23 (58480 long) turns only one corner.
In 24c FT macro corners
_FT_macros_corners.dat>
The most of the 10 million twist are due to sc6t which is 21714 long. I
can certainly find a shorter macro which does the same, but find a short
solve was not my aim.
The elapsed time for my solve is 66 hours.
You can find my macros with pictures in "files / Eduard". R is always
the reference point for the macro. Ignore these files if you don't want
spoil your pleasure to construct yourself such macros.
Kind regards
Ed
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard Baumann"
>
> Thanks.
>
> Yes, there was a typo. Should be
> ...which has no equivalent in 3D.
> instead of
> ...which has no equivalent in 4D.
>
> More about my 24c solve will follow.
>
> Kind regards
> Ed
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Melinda Green
> To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 9:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: 24cell FT
>
>
>
> Congratulations, Ed!!!
>
> This was a mighty solution. I got your solution file and unpacked it
just fine. It's funny because it doesn't look that big at all when I
scroll around in it but I guess it really does contain 10 million
twists. Let this be a notice to everyone that unless you are attempting
a shortest solution, length does not matter at all. A solution is a
solution however you manage it and you should feel no less proud to make
heavy use of macros you develop.
>
> Yes, the 24-cell is special. When you said it has no equivalent in 4D
I think you mean that it has no analog in any other dimension. 4-space
has the most regular polytopes and this one sits smack in the middle and
is also self-dual so in many ways it is the ultimate regular polytope.
The jewel in the middle of the crown. Of course lots of other polytopes
have special features like the simplexes, 120-cell, Klein's Quartic,
etc., but if I were a serious puzzle solver I would definitely want to
have conquered this rare and terrible beauty.
>
> So any closing thoughts on your experience? Very few people even
attempt this monster so I'm sure that the rest of us will relish every
word from the intrepid explorers like yourself who wrestle it into
submission.
>
> Congratulations again,
> -Melinda
>
> On 12/16/2011 9:37 AM, Eduard wrote:
>
> I have solved now (as third person) the "24cell FT" with much more
twists (about 10 millions) than Nan and Andrey. So the log file is big:
90MB. I had to zip it before sending it to the 4D cubing group. My log
file
> For me the "24call FT" is the most beautyful of these virtual 4D
twisting puzzles (and similars). It is the only regular convex 4D
polytope which has no equivalent in 4D. The face turning mode is the
most natural one. "24cell FT" is about 5 times more difficult to handle
than the 3x3x3x3 and less lengthy than the 120cell.
>
>
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" baumann@ wrote:
> >
> > I'm still solving with great pleasure the "24cell FT". I have solved
96 2C face centers, 96 3C edges and 96 2C face sides sofar and I'm
approaching the 50% of the puzzle. My move count is 390'000 and the
elapsed time 42h45. Nan has reached 54'000 moves and 9h25 for the whole.
And Andrey is even better. I will use estimated 1 Mio moves to finish. I
think that Nan and Andrey must use external computer program power and
advise or do extremely sophisticated setup's. Is that so?
> >
> > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" baumann@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Work with 3Cs - I have also finished 5 cells of 24. Ed, :)
> > >
> > > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Andrey"
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've also finished 2C centers. It took about 570 twists (and no
macros at all). Now work with 3Cs - finished 5 cells of 24. Comparing
with 120-cell it looks not difficult at all - but the most interesting
things are still ahead :)
> > > >
> > > > Andrey
> > > >
> > > > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
> > > > >
> > > > > I have finished now the 96 2C face centers of the 24cell FT. I
needed 8121 moves compared to the about 800 moves of Nan for the same
thing. This is a little bit frustrating but not enough to stop my
efforts. Now I tackle the 96 3C edges. I have already a 3 cycle. The
same 3 cycle executed 3 times gives a 3 cycle for the 2C face-sides.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have started to solve "24cell FT". Until now only Nan Ma
did it in about 54'000 moves.
> > > > > > Forst I place at home the 2 colored face elements. There are
96. For 52 faces I needed 5300 moves. Replaying the log file of Nan I
see that he used only about 750 moves for all faces. Most of his moves
are dedicated to place the 2 colored face-corner elements different from
the face elements (13'000 to 54'000).
> > > > > > My technic consists of using a narrow 3 cycle for the faces
and a narrow 2 element flip for faces. I estimate that I will use about
10'000 moves for the faces only.
> > > > > > I observe also when replying Nan's log file that only the
very first moves show an animation.
> > > > > > Can anybody help me to understand these things? ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
--2-9307464533-6040350627=:8
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Here are some remarks to my 24cell Ft solve.
hbouring cell.
The strategy is first 96 facecenters, then 96 edges, then=
288 facesides, then 144 subcorners and finally 24 corners.
In fs.com/v1/0ALtTqS1Cw3xYK_UKxV9PgC8Tkq-Rz8661F3EV7vNvNWfLgwbJNfZfAVXvspUnLQ2=
sCHNRO04Taa_gpaNjli2vO8iujAU_IFR6CjzIg/Eduard/24c_FT_macros_faces.dat">24c =
FT macros faces .
macro edg4 =3D 3-cycle between ce=
lls
macro mir22 mirrors an edge on place
In 1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/0ALtTq5Y-7vxYK_Uqw7ze3NaVJxexJWMskZS5TbSvhw5yAt9FJd6iS=
r6wGGL3gwdhNLAmmiHDbrhytOKuQ54aeq9AMYcN_Kw6cui4MI/Eduard/24c_FT_macros_edge=
s.dat">24c FT macros edges
3-cycle macros within cel=
l keeping the color in this cell: fc18 (one side) and fc21 (two sides)
I=
n qegtDeOWLyKAhOC6DHu-zmM3Ekc25TnHt25-X3-OULv1AUmJ_4HCxMkzirK6CCBIb681Ys/Edua=
rd/24c_FT_macros_facesides.dat">24c FT macros facesides
Collect all correct colored stickers of one cell with the "inject=
ors in a new cell" fc22 or fc24 without paying attention to the ordering wi=
thin this cell. Use fc18 and fc21 in the setup's.
Order the stickers in the cell with fc18 and fc21
between neighbouring cells.
In m/v1/0ALtTgo1AYLxYK_U-OfezCGS5CD_NJvR-2lyMk1DVYKeyYuQXxlLT63QAdAQrEXTBJHdYU=
Am7juDGPbkpcI7cQzrczG5s6VVYjbfGKE/Eduard/24c_FT_macros_subcorners.dat">24c =
FT macros subcorners
4176 long) and a macro c15 (4176 long) which turns two corners on place.
>At the very last I was left with only one corner turned on place. This sho=
wed me that in the contrary to the Rubiks cube one corner alone can be turn=
ed. My macro c23 (58480 long) turns only one corner.
In //f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/0ALtTjJGkrzxYK_UBt9IbUjSE7Yv-farIjNyLUOgEkz28rnyHlQ=
4CrNA9nKzzKwcjJoh_K9AxZwx7oRcgbW1wozPqtuX1lr4hAyYljI/Eduard/24c_FT_macros_c=
orners.dat">24c FT macro corners
The most of the 10 million twist are due to sc6t which is 21714 long=
. I can certainly find a shorter macro which does the same, but find a shor=
t solve was not my aim.
e reference point for the macro. Ignore these files if you don't want spoil=
your pleasure to construct yourself such macros.
rote:
>
> Thanks.
>
> Yes, there was a typo. Shoul=
d be
> ...which has no equivalent in 3D.
> instead of
> .=
..which has no equivalent in 4D.
>
> More about my 24c solve w=
ill follow.
>
> Kind regards
> Ed
>
> -----=
Original Message -----
> From: Melinda Green
> To: 4D_Cubing=
@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 9:03 PM
> S=
ubject: Re: [MC4D] Re: 24cell FT
>
>
>
> Congrat=
ulations, Ed!!!
>
> This was a mighty solution. I got your sol=
ution file and unpacked it just fine. It's funny because it doesn't look th=
at big at all when I scroll around in it but I guess it really does contain=
10 million twists. Let this be a notice to everyone that unless you are at=
tempting a shortest solution, length does not matter at all. A solution is =
a solution however you manage it and you should feel no less proud to make =
heavy use of macros you develop.
>
> Yes, the 24-cell is speci=
al. When you said it has no equivalent in 4D I think you mean that it has n=
o analog in any other dimension. 4-space has the most regular polytopes and=
this one sits smack in the middle and is also self-dual so in many ways it=
is the ultimate regular polytope. The jewel in the middle of the crown. Of=
course lots of other polytopes have special features like the simplexes, 1=
20-cell, Klein's Quartic, etc., but if I were a serious puzzle solver I wou=
ld definitely want to have conquered this rare and terrible beauty.
>=
> So any closing thoughts on your experience? Very few people even =
attempt this monster so I'm sure that the rest of us will relish every word=
from the intrepid explorers like yourself who wrestle it into submission.<=
BR>>
> Congratulations again,
> -Melinda
>
> O=
n 12/16/2011 9:37 AM, Eduard wrote:
>
> I have solved now (as=
third person) the "24cell FT" with much more twists (about 10 millions) th=
an Nan and Andrey. So the log file is big: 90MB. I had to zip it before sen=
ding it to the 4D cubing group. My log file
> For me the "24call FT"=
is the most beautyful of these virtual 4D twisting puzzles (and similars).=
It is the only regular convex 4D polytope which has no equivalent in 4D. T=
he face turning mode is the most natural one. "24cell FT" is about 5 times =
more difficult to handle than the 3x3x3x3 and less lengthy than the 120cell=
.
>
>
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" baum=
ann@ wrote:
> >
> > I'm still solving with great pleasure=
the "24cell FT". I have solved 96 2C face centers, 96 3C edges and 96 2C f=
ace sides sofar and I'm approaching the 50% of the puzzle. My move count is=
390'000 and the elapsed time 42h45. Nan has reached 54'000 moves and 9h25 =
for the whole. And Andrey is even better. I will use estimated 1 Mio moves =
to finish. I think that Nan and Andrey must use external computer program p=
ower and advise or do extremely sophisticated setup's. Is that so?
> =
>
> > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" baumann@ wrot=
e:
> > >
> > > Work with 3Cs - I have also finished=
5 cells of 24. Ed, :)
> > >
> > > --- In 4D_Cubi=
ng@yahoogroups.com, "Andrey" <andreyastrelin@> wrote:
> > &g=
t; >
> > > > I've also finished 2C centers. It took about=
570 twists (and no macros at all). Now work with 3Cs - finished 5 cells of=
24. Comparing with 120-cell it looks not difficult at all - but the most i=
nteresting things are still ahead :)
> > > >
> > =
> > Andrey
> > > >
> > > > --- In 4D_C=
ubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" <baumann@> wrote:
> > > &=
gt; >
> > > > > I have finished now the 96 2C face cen=
ters of the 24cell FT. I needed 8121 moves compared to the about 800 moves =
of Nan for the same thing. This is a little bit frustrating but not enough =
to stop my efforts. Now I tackle the 96 3C edges. I have already a 3 cycle.=
The same 3 cycle executed 3 times gives a 3 cycle for the 2C face-sides.R>> > > > >
> > > > > --- In 4D_Cubing@ya=
hoogroups.com, "Eduard" <baumann@> wrote:
> > > > >=
>
> > > > > > I have started to solve "24cell FT".=
Until now only Nan Ma did it in about 54'000 moves.
> > > >=
> > Forst I place at home the 2 colored face elements. There are 96.=
For 52 faces I needed 5300 moves. Replaying the log file of Nan I see that=
he used only about 750 moves for all faces. Most of his moves are dedicate=
d to place the 2 colored face-corner elements different from the face eleme=
nts (13'000 to 54'000).
> > > > > > My technic consist=
s of using a narrow 3 cycle for the faces and a narrow 2 element flip for f=
aces. I estimate that I will use about 10'000 moves for the faces only.
=
> > > > > > I observe also when replying Nan's log file t=
hat only the very first moves show an animation.
> > > > >=
; > Can anybody help me to understand these things? ;-)
> > >=
; > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
>=
> >
> >
>
--2-9307464533-6040350627=:8--
From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Sat, 17 Dec 2011 22:15:05 -0000
Subject: [MC4D] Re: 24cell FT
Sorry for some confusion in my 24c FT macros for faces.
The macros are not c4 and c5 but c4, c5new and kipp6. c5new is similar to c=
5 and kipp6 turns two faces on place (reference point in between).
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
>
>=20
>=20
> Here are some remarks to my 24cell Ft solve.
>=20
> Treat the cells in a contiguous manner. Allwasy take as next cell a
> neighbouring cell.
> The strategy is first 96 facecenters, then 96 edges, then 288 facesides,
> then 144 subcorners and finally 24 corners.
>=20
> Facecenters
>=20
> Two 3-cycle macros c4 and c5.
> In 24c FT macros faces
>
> _FT_macros_faces.dat> .
>=20
> Edges
>=20
> macro edg5 =3D 3-cycle in same cell
> macro edg4 =3D 3-cycle between cells
> macro mir22 mirrors an edge on place
> In 24c FT macros edges
>
> _FT_macros_edges.dat>
>=20
> Facesides
>=20
> 3-cycle macros between cells: fc22 and fc24
> 3-cycle macros within cell keeping the color in this cell: fc18 (one
> side) and fc21 (two sides)
> In 24c FT macros facesides
>
> _FT_macros_facesides.dat>
>=20
> (a)
> Collect all correct colored stickers of one cell with the "injectors in
> a new cell" fc22 or fc24 without paying attention to the ordering within
> this cell. Use fc18 and fc21 in the setup's.
>=20
> (b)
> Order the stickers in the cell with fc18 and fc21
>=20
> Subcorners
>=20
> Two 3-cycle macros sc11 (3584 long) within a cell and sc6t (21714 long)
> between neighbouring cells.
> In 24c FT macros subcorners
>
> _FT_macros_subcorners.dat>
>=20
> Corners
>=20
> A wide 3-cycle macro c14 (836 long), a narrow 3-cycle macro c17d (4176
> long) and a macro c15 (4176 long) which turns two corners on place.
> At the very last I was left with only one corner turned on place. This
> showed me that in the contrary to the Rubiks cube one corner alone can
> be turned. My macro c23 (58480 long) turns only one corner.
> In 24c FT macro corners
>
> _FT_macros_corners.dat>
>=20
>=20
> The most of the 10 million twist are due to sc6t which is 21714 long. I
> can certainly find a shorter macro which does the same, but find a short
> solve was not my aim.
>=20
> The elapsed time for my solve is 66 hours.
>=20
> You can find my macros with pictures in "files / Eduard". R is always
> the reference point for the macro. Ignore these files if you don't want
> spoil your pleasure to construct yourself such macros.
>=20
> Kind regards
>=20
> Ed
>=20
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard Baumann"
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Yes, there was a typo. Should be
> > ...which has no equivalent in 3D.
> > instead of
> > ...which has no equivalent in 4D.
> >
> > More about my 24c solve will follow.
> >
> > Kind regards
> > Ed
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Melinda Green
> > To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, December 16, 2011 9:03 PM
> > Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: 24cell FT
> >
> >
> >
> > Congratulations, Ed!!!
> >
> > This was a mighty solution. I got your solution file and unpacked it
> just fine. It's funny because it doesn't look that big at all when I
> scroll around in it but I guess it really does contain 10 million
> twists. Let this be a notice to everyone that unless you are attempting
> a shortest solution, length does not matter at all. A solution is a
> solution however you manage it and you should feel no less proud to make
> heavy use of macros you develop.
> >
> > Yes, the 24-cell is special. When you said it has no equivalent in 4D
> I think you mean that it has no analog in any other dimension. 4-space
> has the most regular polytopes and this one sits smack in the middle and
> is also self-dual so in many ways it is the ultimate regular polytope.
> The jewel in the middle of the crown. Of course lots of other polytopes
> have special features like the simplexes, 120-cell, Klein's Quartic,
> etc., but if I were a serious puzzle solver I would definitely want to
> have conquered this rare and terrible beauty.
> >
> > So any closing thoughts on your experience? Very few people even
> attempt this monster so I'm sure that the rest of us will relish every
> word from the intrepid explorers like yourself who wrestle it into
> submission.
> >
> > Congratulations again,
> > -Melinda
> >
> > On 12/16/2011 9:37 AM, Eduard wrote:
> >
> > I have solved now (as third person) the "24cell FT" with much more
> twists (about 10 millions) than Nan and Andrey. So the log file is big:
> 90MB. I had to zip it before sending it to the 4D cubing group. My log
> file
> > For me the "24call FT" is the most beautyful of these virtual 4D
> twisting puzzles (and similars). It is the only regular convex 4D
> polytope which has no equivalent in 4D. The face turning mode is the
> most natural one. "24cell FT" is about 5 times more difficult to handle
> than the 3x3x3x3 and less lengthy than the 120cell.
> >
> >
> > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" baumann@ wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm still solving with great pleasure the "24cell FT". I have solved
> 96 2C face centers, 96 3C edges and 96 2C face sides sofar and I'm
> approaching the 50% of the puzzle. My move count is 390'000 and the
> elapsed time 42h45. Nan has reached 54'000 moves and 9h25 for the whole.
> And Andrey is even better. I will use estimated 1 Mio moves to finish. I
> think that Nan and Andrey must use external computer program power and
> advise or do extremely sophisticated setup's. Is that so?
> > >
> > > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" baumann@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Work with 3Cs - I have also finished 5 cells of 24. Ed, :)
> > > >
> > > > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Andrey"
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I've also finished 2C centers. It took about 570 twists (and no
> macros at all). Now work with 3Cs - finished 5 cells of 24. Comparing
> with 120-cell it looks not difficult at all - but the most interesting
> things are still ahead :)
> > > > >
> > > > > Andrey
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have finished now the 96 2C face centers of the 24cell FT. I
> needed 8121 moves compared to the about 800 moves of Nan for the same
> thing. This is a little bit frustrating but not enough to stop my
> efforts. Now I tackle the 96 3C edges. I have already a 3 cycle. The
> same 3 cycle executed 3 times gives a 3 cycle for the 2C face-sides.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have started to solve "24cell FT". Until now only Nan Ma
> did it in about 54'000 moves.
> > > > > > > Forst I place at home the 2 colored face elements. There are
> 96. For 52 faces I needed 5300 moves. Replaying the log file of Nan I
> see that he used only about 750 moves for all faces. Most of his moves
> are dedicated to place the 2 colored face-corner elements different from
> the face elements (13'000 to 54'000).
> > > > > > > My technic consists of using a narrow 3 cycle for the faces
> and a narrow 2 element flip for faces. I estimate that I will use about
> 10'000 moves for the faces only.
> > > > > > > I observe also when replying Nan's log file that only the
> very first moves show an animation.
> > > > > > > Can anybody help me to understand these things? ;-)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>