Hi everyone,
This thread about blindfolded solving was here for several months and I won=
der if anyone has solved any 4D puzzles blindfolded. As Matt said, 2^4 seem=
s to be within reach, especially using macros and undoing setup moves autom=
atically.=20
Recently I am quite into blindfolded solving of 3^3. The numbers of states =
for 3^3 and 2^4 are ~10^20 and ~10^28, respectively. So memorizing a 3^3 an=
d 2^4 is basically memorizing 20 and 28 digits, respectively. The difficult=
y should be similar. Since I feel the major challenge for blindfolded solvi=
ng is memorization, I don't think using aids is a deal.=20
Nan
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Melinda Green
>
> I'm changing the subject line so as to not steal any thunder from Matt=20
> and Ethan's amazing accomplishments.
>=20
> Although it would be neat if the first ever blindfolded 3^4 solution=20
> were done without macros, I think that you should be able to make full=20
> use of predefined macros. I see no reason to make this harder than it=20
> needs to be. To me the feat is about the ability to hold an entire=20
> solution in your head for long enough to affect the solution. Other=20
> people may feel that the experience should be closer to the 3D version=20
> and I fully respect that view. Whatever the majority opinion of those=20
> who are thinking of attempting this is just fine with me.
>=20
> Although I have no concern that anyone on this list would ever cheat in=20
> such a contest, I think it would be good if we at least addressed the=20
> possibility. My suggestion for a simple safeguard is to require the=20
> solver to declare a witness willing to affirm that they observed that=20
> the entire solution was performed fairly. This should also make any such=
=20
> solution a bit more formal which might feel more satisfying because it=20
> makes it very clear when you are making a serious attempt.
>=20
> -Melinda
>=20
> On 1/11/2011 6:06 AM, Matthew wrote:
> > Congrats to my namesake for beating the 120-cell, and to Ethan, welcome=
to the club! Membership includes a free straight-jacket and a psychiatris=
t (just kidding of course). I would also love to hear about your experienc=
es with the solves. When I get the time I plan to try and have a look at E=
than's solution to see how he went about the solve, though a description wo=
uld be a good place to start.
> >
> > To answer some of Melinda's points: I believe that any challenge availa=
ble for these puzzles which is humanly possible will eventually be conquere=
d by someone. Also, 3^4 blindfolded is already on my to-do list. I have a=
lready posted about trying to solve the 2^4 this way, though after several =
attempts I have not been successful yet (my closest was off by 2 corner twi=
sts). I have a memorisation method planned out for the 3^4, all I need is =
to finish planning the execution method and enough free time (and to get be=
tter at blindsolving). I will try and beat the 2^4 first though, and maybe=
get the solve stage on video if I can.
> > This presents a question, are pre-recorded macros allowed? Are macros =
recorded during the solve allowed? Solving the 2^4 blind without them is e=
asy enough, but it will be significantly more difficult to conquer the 3^4 =
without them. I also wonder about the commutator and conjugate ability of =
MC7D. Part of the difficulty of blindfold solving is doing and undoing the=
setup moves correctly (significantly harder in 4D!), and these functions w=
ould reduce that difficulty. My aim is to blindfold solve without these ai=
ds, but I was wondering what other people's thoughts are.
> >
> > Sorry for getting a little carried away when this is supposed to be abo=
ut these two great solves (and solvers). Now we have to wait and see what =
they solve next!
> >
> > Matt
>
I've been wanting to get back to this for a while, but I was busy with othe=
r things, most notably a speedcubing competition just over a week ago which=
I was practicing for, as well as other time-consuming things like helping =
to redecorate a bathroom. Since I now have an official 7/7 multiBLD result=
and 4BLD success, I should be able to do this without too much bother. Wi=
th my memo method, an average solve (I've had a few near misses on 2^4BLD s=
o I have some experience to go on) involves <=3D30 letters by using a lette=
ring system, which is less than 2 3x3x3s worth. By a rough estimation, a 3=
^4 is about 6 3x3x3s worth of information, and is perfectly possible to be =
solved BLD style. I intend to try at some point, after a few dry runs to g=
et used to the solving method (I have both a solving and memorising method =
prepared for it). Also, I don't feel that macros are necessary at all for =
this. In fact, I won't be using any as I feel it is more natural without t=
hem, and that they wouldn't help much anyway. I might have some time just =
now actually, if so I will make another attempt on 2^4. One day, hopefully=
soon, I intend to get a success on video to help validate my result.
Nan, it would be interesting if you had a go at this too, then maybe we can=
compare techniques afterwards and possibly learn from each other.
Matt
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "schuma"
>
> Hi everyone,
>=20
> This thread about blindfolded solving was here for several months and I w=
onder if anyone has solved any 4D puzzles blindfolded. As Matt said, 2^4 se=
ems to be within reach, especially using macros and undoing setup moves aut=
omatically.=20
>=20
> Recently I am quite into blindfolded solving of 3^3. The numbers of state=
s for 3^3 and 2^4 are ~10^20 and ~10^28, respectively. So memorizing a 3^3 =
and 2^4 is basically memorizing 20 and 28 digits, respectively. The difficu=
lty should be similar. Since I feel the major challenge for blindfolded sol=
ving is memorization, I don't think using aids is a deal.=20
>=20
> Nan
>=20
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Melinda Green
> >
> > I'm changing the subject line so as to not steal any thunder from Matt=
=20
> > and Ethan's amazing accomplishments.
> >=20
> > Although it would be neat if the first ever blindfolded 3^4 solution=20
> > were done without macros, I think that you should be able to make full=
=20
> > use of predefined macros. I see no reason to make this harder than it=20
> > needs to be. To me the feat is about the ability to hold an entire=20
> > solution in your head for long enough to affect the solution. Other=20
> > people may feel that the experience should be closer to the 3D version=
=20
> > and I fully respect that view. Whatever the majority opinion of those=20
> > who are thinking of attempting this is just fine with me.
> >=20
> > Although I have no concern that anyone on this list would ever cheat in=
=20
> > such a contest, I think it would be good if we at least addressed the=20
> > possibility. My suggestion for a simple safeguard is to require the=20
> > solver to declare a witness willing to affirm that they observed that=20
> > the entire solution was performed fairly. This should also make any suc=
h=20
> > solution a bit more formal which might feel more satisfying because it=
=20
> > makes it very clear when you are making a serious attempt.
> >=20
> > -Melinda
> >=20
> > On 1/11/2011 6:06 AM, Matthew wrote:
> > > Congrats to my namesake for beating the 120-cell, and to Ethan, welco=
me to the club! Membership includes a free straight-jacket and a psychiatr=
ist (just kidding of course). I would also love to hear about your experie=
nces with the solves. When I get the time I plan to try and have a look at=
Ethan's solution to see how he went about the solve, though a description =
would be a good place to start.
> > >
> > > To answer some of Melinda's points: I believe that any challenge avai=
lable for these puzzles which is humanly possible will eventually be conque=
red by someone. Also, 3^4 blindfolded is already on my to-do list. I have=
already posted about trying to solve the 2^4 this way, though after severa=
l attempts I have not been successful yet (my closest was off by 2 corner t=
wists). I have a memorisation method planned out for the 3^4, all I need i=
s to finish planning the execution method and enough free time (and to get =
better at blindsolving). I will try and beat the 2^4 first though, and may=
be get the solve stage on video if I can.
> > > This presents a question, are pre-recorded macros allowed? Are macro=
s recorded during the solve allowed? Solving the 2^4 blind without them is=
easy enough, but it will be significantly more difficult to conquer the 3^=
4 without them. I also wonder about the commutator and conjugate ability o=
f MC7D. Part of the difficulty of blindfold solving is doing and undoing t=
he setup moves correctly (significantly harder in 4D!), and these functions=
would reduce that difficulty. My aim is to blindfold solve without these =
aids, but I was wondering what other people's thoughts are.
> > >
> > > Sorry for getting a little carried away when this is supposed to be a=
bout these two great solves (and solvers). Now we have to wait and see wha=
t they solve next!
> > >
> > > Matt
> >
>
Matt,
Your multiBLD record is so impressive! Congratulations! I'm sure you've bee=
n able to solve 2^4 BLD long ago, and 3^4 is in reach for you.
I'm just a beginner on BLD. I did my first 3x3x3 BLD only a week ago. I'm c=
ertainly not capable to memorize six 3^3's or a 3^4. My target is 2^4 BLD p=
erhaps with macros. That's hard enough for me. Currently I'm not sure what =
method I should use for 2^4. Since looking for a method is part of the fun,=
I would rather wait until I find it before exchanging notes with you.
Nan
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew"
>
> I've been wanting to get back to this for a while, but I was busy with ot=
her things, most notably a speedcubing competition just over a week ago whi=
ch I was practicing for, as well as other time-consuming things like helpin=
g to redecorate a bathroom. Since I now have an official 7/7 multiBLD resu=
lt and 4BLD success, I should be able to do this without too much bother. =
With my memo method, an average solve (I've had a few near misses on 2^4BLD=
so I have some experience to go on) involves <=3D30 letters by using a let=
tering system, which is less than 2 3x3x3s worth. By a rough estimation, a=
3^4 is about 6 3x3x3s worth of information, and is perfectly possible to b=
e solved BLD style. I intend to try at some point, after a few dry runs to=
get used to the solving method (I have both a solving and memorising metho=
d prepared for it). Also, I don't feel that macros are necessary at all fo=
r this. In fact, I won't be using any as I feel it is more natural without=
them, and that they wouldn't help much anyway. I might have some time jus=
t now actually, if so I will make another attempt on 2^4. One day, hopeful=
ly soon, I intend to get a success on video to help validate my result.
>=20
> Nan, it would be interesting if you had a go at this too, then maybe we c=
an compare techniques afterwards and possibly learn from each other.
>=20
> Matt
>=20
Nan,
Thanks :). That result was my personal best though, I'm still fairly new t=
o multiBLD and I was fairly convinced I would mess up.
I see, I thought when I read you post that you were more experienced at BLD=
, but since you seem to have such a talent for puzzles I'm sure you will ad=
vance quickly. I agree that it's more fun to figure it out yourself first,=
and considering BLD in 4D was certainly one of the more interesting experi=
ences I have had with these puzzles. Can you tell me what systems you use =
for solving and memorising? Using a very basic system for either will hind=
er your attempts at 4D BLD, but neither do you need an advanced system. Pe=
rsonally on 3x3x3, I use 3-cycles to solve (mostly BH, which is fairly easy=
if you know how to use commutators), and letter pair images/journeys for m=
emorising.
I just finished another attempt at the 2^4, and I'll give a couple of minor=
pointers (no spoilers for methods) which could be useful to avoid the two =
silly mistakes I just made to cause a DNF. Firstly, make sure the twist sp=
eed is slow enough that you can easily follow the twists you make, and veri=
fy that every twist is what you intended. Secondly, if you need to reorien=
t one or two pieces in place and think of doing it as CW or CCW from a cert=
ain viewpoint, make sure that its the same viewpoint you use for deciding w=
hich algorithm to use for the reorientation. I had 2 pieces left after pla=
cing all the pieces which were in place but misorientated with one sticker =
solved in each. I tried to rotate them the wrong way (I memorised and reca=
lled correctly, but memorised it from the wrong viewpoint and therefore CW =
and CCW were switched), and then made a mistake in the algorithm by doing o=
ne of my twists in the wrong direction and didn't notice. I guess I was ou=
t of practice a little, but that's no excuse. Next attempt should be a suc=
cess at last, unless I make any more silly errors.
Also, I encourage anyone else in this group who is interested in BLD to try=
this, it really is fun. And for those who aren't interested in BLD: try i=
t, it's fun, interesting, and good for showing off to non-cubers ;-).
Btw, would anyone like me to post my method here or upload a typed up tutor=
ial? Should I wait until it has been discussed a little? Obviously if I p=
osted it I would add a suitable spoiler warning for anyone wanting to try t=
hemselves first (which I recommend).
Matt
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "schuma"
>
> Matt,
>=20
> Your multiBLD record is so impressive! Congratulations! I'm sure you've b=
een able to solve 2^4 BLD long ago, and 3^4 is in reach for you.
>=20
> I'm just a beginner on BLD. I did my first 3x3x3 BLD only a week ago. I'm=
certainly not capable to memorize six 3^3's or a 3^4. My target is 2^4 BLD=
perhaps with macros. That's hard enough for me. Currently I'm not sure wha=
t method I should use for 2^4. Since looking for a method is part of the fu=
n, I would rather wait until I find it before exchanging notes with you.
>=20
> Nan
Matt,
My 3x3x3 method is pretty basic. I first solve the orientation of edges and=
corners, and then permute corners and then edges. For permutations I only =
use J-perm. So it's based on 2-cycles rather than 3-cycles. Somebody told m=
e afterward that my method is basically the old Pochmann's method. On memo =
I remember the permutation of edges using a sequence of numbers, and everyt=
hing else (orientations of all pieces and the perm of corners) is memorized=
directly without any number/letter. I don't use images or journey tricks.
When I move from 3x3x3 to 2^4, I can see some difficulties. There's no 2-cy=
cle on 2^4. I'm debating on whether I should use 3-cycles, or two 2-cycles.=
But I don't think it's a big deal. On 3x3x3 I also tried 3-cycles. I chose=
the 2-cycle because it's even simpler. But I think I can switch to 3-cycle=
s without much effort.
The orientations in 2^4 are much harder to remember than in 3x3x3. I haven'=
t thought carefully about how to memorize them.
Good luck on your next attempt of 2^4!
Nan
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew"
>
> Nan,
>=20
> Thanks :). That result was my personal best though, I'm still fairly new=
to multiBLD and I was fairly convinced I would mess up.
>=20
> I see, I thought when I read you post that you were more experienced at B=
LD, but since you seem to have such a talent for puzzles I'm sure you will =
advance quickly. I agree that it's more fun to figure it out yourself firs=
t, and considering BLD in 4D was certainly one of the more interesting expe=
riences I have had with these puzzles. Can you tell me what systems you us=
e for solving and memorising? Using a very basic system for either will hi=
nder your attempts at 4D BLD, but neither do you need an advanced system. =
Personally on 3x3x3, I use 3-cycles to solve (mostly BH, which is fairly ea=
sy if you know how to use commutators), and letter pair images/journeys for=
memorising.
>=20
> I just finished another attempt at the 2^4, and I'll give a couple of min=
or pointers (no spoilers for methods) which could be useful to avoid the tw=
o silly mistakes I just made to cause a DNF. Firstly, make sure the twist =
speed is slow enough that you can easily follow the twists you make, and ve=
rify that every twist is what you intended. Secondly, if you need to reori=
ent one or two pieces in place and think of doing it as CW or CCW from a ce=
rtain viewpoint, make sure that its the same viewpoint you use for deciding=
which algorithm to use for the reorientation. I had 2 pieces left after p=
lacing all the pieces which were in place but misorientated with one sticke=
r solved in each. I tried to rotate them the wrong way (I memorised and re=
called correctly, but memorised it from the wrong viewpoint and therefore C=
W and CCW were switched), and then made a mistake in the algorithm by doing=
one of my twists in the wrong direction and didn't notice. I guess I was =
out of practice a little, but that's no excuse. Next attempt should be a s=
uccess at last, unless I make any more silly errors.
>=20
> Also, I encourage anyone else in this group who is interested in BLD to t=
ry this, it really is fun. And for those who aren't interested in BLD: try=
it, it's fun, interesting, and good for showing off to non-cubers ;-).
>=20
> Btw, would anyone like me to post my method here or upload a typed up tut=
orial? Should I wait until it has been discussed a little? Obviously if I=
posted it I would add a suitable spoiler warning for anyone wanting to try=
themselves first (which I recommend).
>=20
> Matt
>=20
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "schuma"
> >
> > Matt,
> >=20
> > Your multiBLD record is so impressive! Congratulations! I'm sure you've=
been able to solve 2^4 BLD long ago, and 3^4 is in reach for you.
> >=20
> > I'm just a beginner on BLD. I did my first 3x3x3 BLD only a week ago. I=
'm certainly not capable to memorize six 3^3's or a 3^4. My target is 2^4 B=
LD perhaps with macros. That's hard enough for me. Currently I'm not sure w=
hat method I should use for 2^4. Since looking for a method is part of the =
fun, I would rather wait until I find it before exchanging notes with you.
> >=20
> > Nan
>
Hi,
I just successfully solved 2^4 BLD with macros using MPUlt v1.06. A screens=
hot, the log file, and the macro-definition file can be found in this folde=
r (I hope this link is permanent):
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/files/Nan%20Ma/BLD2_4/
I used macros extensively. I even included the setup moves in macros to avo=
id clicking mistakes. As a result, once memo is done, the solving was very =
fast. The memo time was ~24 min and the solving time was ~2 min. I had two =
pitiful DNFs before the success. In the first attempt I didn't memorize the=
orientation of a piece correctly. In the second attempt I clicked a re-ori=
entation macro when I should click a permutation macro in the last step.
I would like to thank Matt for his warning about the reorientation step. I'=
m sure you will make a BLD solve without macro very soon, if not already do=
ne one.
I had a breakthrough on my understanding of reorientation when I talked to =
Raymond Zhao. His suggestion was inspiring. I'll hold the trick to avoid sp=
oiling.
Nan
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew"
>
> Nan,
>=20
> Thanks :). That result was my personal best though, I'm still fairly new=
to multiBLD and I was fairly convinced I would mess up.
>=20
> I see, I thought when I read you post that you were more experienced at B=
LD, but since you seem to have such a talent for puzzles I'm sure you will =
advance quickly. I agree that it's more fun to figure it out yourself firs=
t, and considering BLD in 4D was certainly one of the more interesting expe=
riences I have had with these puzzles. Can you tell me what systems you us=
e for solving and memorising? Using a very basic system for either will hi=
nder your attempts at 4D BLD, but neither do you need an advanced system. =
Personally on 3x3x3, I use 3-cycles to solve (mostly BH, which is fairly ea=
sy if you know how to use commutators), and letter pair images/journeys for=
memorising.
>=20
> I just finished another attempt at the 2^4, and I'll give a couple of min=
or pointers (no spoilers for methods) which could be useful to avoid the tw=
o silly mistakes I just made to cause a DNF. Firstly, make sure the twist =
speed is slow enough that you can easily follow the twists you make, and ve=
rify that every twist is what you intended. Secondly, if you need to reori=
ent one or two pieces in place and think of doing it as CW or CCW from a ce=
rtain viewpoint, make sure that its the same viewpoint you use for deciding=
which algorithm to use for the reorientation. I had 2 pieces left after p=
lacing all the pieces which were in place but misorientated with one sticke=
r solved in each. I tried to rotate them the wrong way (I memorised and re=
called correctly, but memorised it from the wrong viewpoint and therefore C=
W and CCW were switched), and then made a mistake in the algorithm by doing=
one of my twists in the wrong direction and didn't notice. I guess I was =
out of practice a little, but that's no excuse. Next attempt should be a s=
uccess at last, unless I make any more silly errors.
>=20
> Also, I encourage anyone else in this group who is interested in BLD to t=
ry this, it really is fun. And for those who aren't interested in BLD: try=
it, it's fun, interesting, and good for showing off to non-cubers ;-).
>=20
> Btw, would anyone like me to post my method here or upload a typed up tut=
orial? Should I wait until it has been discussed a little? Obviously if I=
posted it I would add a suitable spoiler warning for anyone wanting to try=
themselves first (which I recommend).
>=20
> Matt
>=20
Let me be the first to congratulate you, Nan!
Now I have to figure out how to explain this to people. Looking at your=20
screen shot, part of my brain wants to say "that's not blind!". But of=20
course it is. The visual gray stickers are just mental aids, or perhaps=20
the controls for an invisible puzzle. I suppose the way to explain it=20
would be in analogy to a 3D puzzle that you memorize, plan, cover with=20
gray stickers, and then solve. When finished, you peel them off to see=20
how you did.
Once you and Matt started discussing the practicalities I had a feeling=20
that one of you would solve a 4D cube very soon. From your email, I=20
sense that you are encouraging him to now attempt the first 3^4 blind=20
solve. If you are worried about feeling badly about rushing for the=20
first ever 4D solution, please do not. Everyone with the skills to=20
attempt this was perfectly able to decide for themselves how much effort=20
to put into the attempt, and you were the one with the most=20
determination to risk it. The 3^4 is the obvious next plum prize. I=20
encourage you to give it your best effort if it interests you, and I=20
wish to send the same message to everyone else as well.
This new category of 4D solutions definitely deserves a special section=20
in the records wiki. Please upload your solution there along with a=20
simplified screen shot just like for the other puzzles, just all in=20
gray. It doesn't matter how you do it. We can always edit and move it=20
around later.
Regarding spoilers, please feel free to explain your methods and just=20
put the words *Spoiler Warning* or something like that somewhere in the=20
subject line.
Congratulations on your amazing feat, and thank you for opening up an=20
entirely new category of challenges that we have only dreamed about=20
until now.
-Melinda
On 8/11/2011 12:37 AM, schuma wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I just successfully solved 2^4 BLD with macros using MPUlt v1.06. A scree=
nshot, the log file, and the macro-definition file can be found in this fol=
der (I hope this link is permanent):
>
> http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/files/Nan%20Ma/BLD2_4/
>
> I used macros extensively. I even included the setup moves in macros to a=
void clicking mistakes. As a result, once memo is done, the solving was ver=
y fast. The memo time was ~24 min and the solving time was ~2 min. I had tw=
o pitiful DNFs before the success. In the first attempt I didn't memorize t=
he orientation of a piece correctly. In the second attempt I clicked a re-o=
rientation macro when I should click a permutation macro in the last step.
>
> I would like to thank Matt for his warning about the reorientation step. =
I'm sure you will make a BLD solve without macro very soon, if not already =
done one.
>
> I had a breakthrough on my understanding of reorientation when I talked t=
o Raymond Zhao. His suggestion was inspiring. I'll hold the trick to avoid =
spoiling.
>
> Nan
>
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew"
>> Nan,
>>
>> Thanks :). That result was my personal best though, I'm still fairly ne=
w to multiBLD and I was fairly convinced I would mess up.
>>
>> I see, I thought when I read you post that you were more experienced at =
BLD, but since you seem to have such a talent for puzzles I'm sure you will=
advance quickly. I agree that it's more fun to figure it out yourself fir=
st, and considering BLD in 4D was certainly one of the more interesting exp=
eriences I have had with these puzzles. Can you tell me what systems you u=
se for solving and memorising? Using a very basic system for either will h=
inder your attempts at 4D BLD, but neither do you need an advanced system. =
Personally on 3x3x3, I use 3-cycles to solve (mostly BH, which is fairly e=
asy if you know how to use commutators), and letter pair images/journeys fo=
r memorising.
>>
>> I just finished another attempt at the 2^4, and I'll give a couple of mi=
nor pointers (no spoilers for methods) which could be useful to avoid the t=
wo silly mistakes I just made to cause a DNF. Firstly, make sure the twist=
speed is slow enough that you can easily follow the twists you make, and v=
erify that every twist is what you intended. Secondly, if you need to reor=
ient one or two pieces in place and think of doing it as CW or CCW from a c=
ertain viewpoint, make sure that its the same viewpoint you use for decidin=
g which algorithm to use for the reorientation. I had 2 pieces left after =
placing all the pieces which were in place but misorientated with one stick=
er solved in each. I tried to rotate them the wrong way (I memorised and r=
ecalled correctly, but memorised it from the wrong viewpoint and therefore =
CW and CCW were switched), and then made a mistake in the algorithm by doin=
g one of my twists in the wrong direction and didn't notice. I guess I was=
out of practice
> a little, but that's no excuse. Next attempt should be a success at l=
ast, unless I make any more silly errors.
>> Also, I encourage anyone else in this group who is interested in BLD to =
try this, it really is fun. And for those who aren't interested in BLD: tr=
y it, it's fun, interesting, and good for showing off to non-cubers ;-).
>>
>> Btw, would anyone like me to post my method here or upload a typed up tu=
torial? Should I wait until it has been discussed a little? Obviously if =
I posted it I would add a suitable spoiler warning for anyone wanting to tr=
y themselves first (which I recommend).
>>
>> Matt
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
Hi Melinda,
BLD using either MC4D or MPUlt is SLIGHTLY easier than the regular blindfol=
ded solve using a physical puzzle, in the sense that once the puzzle reache=
s the solved state, a dialog box will prompt me saying it's solved. So in p=
rinciple, one can apply a devil's algorithm
On the contrary, BLD solving a physical cube, one has to decide by himself =
if the solving is done. Nobody watches and says "stop".=20
Although applying the devil's algorithm is far from practice, I can think o=
f a practical way to take advantage using software. When the pre-determined=
procedure ends but no dialog box pops, usually the puzzle is very close to=
the solved state. For example, one piece may be misoriented. At this momen=
t the solver can try to re-orient a piece in a certain way to see if the di=
alog box comes. If not, he can undo it and re-orient it into another orient=
ation, or work on the next piece, until it is solved or he gives up.=20
So if you want to add a proper BLD feature to MC4D, you may add a "blindfol=
d" checkbox. Once it is checked, all the stickers turn black or gray. And t=
here should be no congratulation dialog box in this mode. If the solver thi=
nks the puzzle is solved, he may uncheck the "blindfold" checkbox (or click=
another button called "verify" or something similar) to bring the colors b=
ack and see the result. At this moment the congratulation box may come out.
Currently 3^4 is really out of my reach. There's a long way to go. I need s=
ome serious training on memorization techniques. I need to buy some new Rub=
ik's cubes (because I have only two 3x3x3s) and practice multiBLD.=20
Nan
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Melinda Green
>
> Let me be the first to congratulate you, Nan!
>=20
> Now I have to figure out how to explain this to people. Looking at your=20
> screen shot, part of my brain wants to say "that's not blind!". But of=20
> course it is. The visual gray stickers are just mental aids, or perhaps=20
> the controls for an invisible puzzle. I suppose the way to explain it=20
> would be in analogy to a 3D puzzle that you memorize, plan, cover with=20
> gray stickers, and then solve. When finished, you peel them off to see=20
> how you did.
>=20
> Once you and Matt started discussing the practicalities I had a feeling=20
> that one of you would solve a 4D cube very soon. From your email, I=20
> sense that you are encouraging him to now attempt the first 3^4 blind=20
> solve. If you are worried about feeling badly about rushing for the=20
> first ever 4D solution, please do not. Everyone with the skills to=20
> attempt this was perfectly able to decide for themselves how much effort=
=20
> to put into the attempt, and you were the one with the most=20
> determination to risk it. The 3^4 is the obvious next plum prize. I=20
> encourage you to give it your best effort if it interests you, and I=20
> wish to send the same message to everyone else as well.
>=20
> This new category of 4D solutions definitely deserves a special section=20
> in the records wiki. Please upload your solution there along with a=20
> simplified screen shot just like for the other puzzles, just all in=20
> gray. It doesn't matter how you do it. We can always edit and move it=20
> around later.
>=20
> Regarding spoilers, please feel free to explain your methods and just=20
> put the words *Spoiler Warning* or something like that somewhere in the=20
> subject line.
>=20
> Congratulations on your amazing feat, and thank you for opening up an=20
> entirely new category of challenges that we have only dreamed about=20
> until now.
>=20
> -Melinda
>=20
> On 8/11/2011 12:37 AM, schuma wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I just successfully solved 2^4 BLD with macros using MPUlt v1.06. A scr=
eenshot, the log file, and the macro-definition file can be found in this f=
older (I hope this link is permanent):
> >
> > http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/files/Nan%20Ma/BLD2_4/
> >
> > I used macros extensively. I even included the setup moves in macros to=
avoid clicking mistakes. As a result, once memo is done, the solving was v=
ery fast. The memo time was ~24 min and the solving time was ~2 min. I had =
two pitiful DNFs before the success. In the first attempt I didn't memorize=
the orientation of a piece correctly. In the second attempt I clicked a re=
-orientation macro when I should click a permutation macro in the last step=
.
> >
> > I would like to thank Matt for his warning about the reorientation step=
. I'm sure you will make a BLD solve without macro very soon, if not alread=
y done one.
> >
> > I had a breakthrough on my understanding of reorientation when I talked=
to Raymond Zhao. His suggestion was inspiring. I'll hold the trick to avoi=
d spoiling.
> >
> > Nan
> >
> > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew"
> >> Nan,
> >>
> >> Thanks :). That result was my personal best though, I'm still fairly =
new to multiBLD and I was fairly convinced I would mess up.
> >>
> >> I see, I thought when I read you post that you were more experienced a=
t BLD, but since you seem to have such a talent for puzzles I'm sure you wi=
ll advance quickly. I agree that it's more fun to figure it out yourself f=
irst, and considering BLD in 4D was certainly one of the more interesting e=
xperiences I have had with these puzzles. Can you tell me what systems you=
use for solving and memorising? Using a very basic system for either will=
hinder your attempts at 4D BLD, but neither do you need an advanced system=
. Personally on 3x3x3, I use 3-cycles to solve (mostly BH, which is fairly=
easy if you know how to use commutators), and letter pair images/journeys =
for memorising.
> >>
> >> I just finished another attempt at the 2^4, and I'll give a couple of =
minor pointers (no spoilers for methods) which could be useful to avoid the=
two silly mistakes I just made to cause a DNF. Firstly, make sure the twi=
st speed is slow enough that you can easily follow the twists you make, and=
verify that every twist is what you intended. Secondly, if you need to re=
orient one or two pieces in place and think of doing it as CW or CCW from a=
certain viewpoint, make sure that its the same viewpoint you use for decid=
ing which algorithm to use for the reorientation. I had 2 pieces left afte=
r placing all the pieces which were in place but misorientated with one sti=
cker solved in each. I tried to rotate them the wrong way (I memorised and=
recalled correctly, but memorised it from the wrong viewpoint and therefor=
e CW and CCW were switched), and then made a mistake in the algorithm by do=
ing one of my twists in the wrong direction and didn't notice. I guess I w=
as out of practice
> > a little, but that's no excuse. Next attempt should be a success at=
last, unless I make any more silly errors.
> >> Also, I encourage anyone else in this group who is interested in BLD t=
o try this, it really is fun. And for those who aren't interested in BLD: =
try it, it's fun, interesting, and good for showing off to non-cubers ;-).
> >>
> >> Btw, would anyone like me to post my method here or upload a typed up =
tutorial? Should I wait until it has been discussed a little? Obviously i=
f I posted it I would add a suitable spoiler warning for anyone wanting to =
try themselves first (which I recommend).
> >>
> >> Matt
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
--------------090405030909070002040504
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Nan,
That's a great suggestion about the congratulations help I've added it=20
to the existing blindfold feature request in the MC4D issue tracker here=20
Good luck with your multi 3D attempts!
-Melinda
On 8/11/2011 1:26 PM, schuma wrote:
> Hi Melinda,
>
> BLD using either MC4D or MPUlt is SLIGHTLY easier than the regular blindf=
olded solve using a physical puzzle, in the sense that once the puzzle reac=
hes the solved state, a dialog box will prompt me saying it's solved. So in=
principle, one can apply a devil's algorithm
>
> On the contrary, BLD solving a physical cube, one has to decide by himsel=
f if the solving is done. Nobody watches and says "stop".
>
> Although applying the devil's algorithm is far from practice, I can think=
of a practical way to take advantage using software. When the pre-determin=
ed procedure ends but no dialog box pops, usually the puzzle is very close =
to the solved state. For example, one piece may be misoriented. At this mom=
ent the solver can try to re-orient a piece in a certain way to see if the =
dialog box comes. If not, he can undo it and re-orient it into another orie=
ntation, or work on the next piece, until it is solved or he gives up.
>
> So if you want to add a proper BLD feature to MC4D, you may add a "blindf=
old" checkbox. Once it is checked, all the stickers turn black or gray. And=
there should be no congratulation dialog box in this mode. If the solver t=
hinks the puzzle is solved, he may uncheck the "blindfold" checkbox (or cli=
ck another button called "verify" or something similar) to bring the colors=
back and see the result. At this moment the congratulation box may come ou=
t.
>
> Currently 3^4 is really out of my reach. There's a long way to go. I need=
some serious training on memorization techniques. I need to buy some new R=
ubik's cubes (because I have only two 3x3x3s) and practice multiBLD.
>
> Nan
>
>
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Melinda Green
>> Let me be the first to congratulate you, Nan!
>>
>> Now I have to figure out how to explain this to people. Looking at your
>> screen shot, part of my brain wants to say "that's not blind!". But of
>> course it is. The visual gray stickers are just mental aids, or perhaps
>> the controls for an invisible puzzle. I suppose the way to explain it
>> would be in analogy to a 3D puzzle that you memorize, plan, cover with
>> gray stickers, and then solve. When finished, you peel them off to see
>> how you did.
>>
>> Once you and Matt started discussing the practicalities I had a feeling
>> that one of you would solve a 4D cube very soon. From your email, I
>> sense that you are encouraging him to now attempt the first 3^4 blind
>> solve. If you are worried about feeling badly about rushing for the
>> first ever 4D solution, please do not. Everyone with the skills to
>> attempt this was perfectly able to decide for themselves how much effort
>> to put into the attempt, and you were the one with the most
>> determination to risk it. The 3^4 is the obvious next plum prize. I
>> encourage you to give it your best effort if it interests you, and I
>> wish to send the same message to everyone else as well.
>>
>> This new category of 4D solutions definitely deserves a special section
>> in the records wiki. Please upload your solution there along with a
>> simplified screen shot just like for the other puzzles, just all in
>> gray. It doesn't matter how you do it. We can always edit and move it
>> around later.
>>
>> Regarding spoilers, please feel free to explain your methods and just
>> put the words *Spoiler Warning* or something like that somewhere in the
>> subject line.
>>
>> Congratulations on your amazing feat, and thank you for opening up an
>> entirely new category of challenges that we have only dreamed about
>> until now.
>>
>> -Melinda
>>
>> On 8/11/2011 12:37 AM, schuma wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I just successfully solved 2^4 BLD with macros using MPUlt v1.06. A scr=
eenshot, the log file, and the macro-definition file can be found in this f=
older (I hope this link is permanent):
>>>
>>> http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/files/Nan%20Ma/BLD2_4/
>>>
>>> I used macros extensively. I even included the setup moves in macros to=
avoid clicking mistakes. As a result, once memo is done, the solving was v=
ery fast. The memo time was ~24 min and the solving time was ~2 min. I had =
two pitiful DNFs before the success. In the first attempt I didn't memorize=
the orientation of a piece correctly. In the second attempt I clicked a re=
-orientation macro when I should click a permutation macro in the last step=
.
>>>
>>> I would like to thank Matt for his warning about the reorientation step=
. I'm sure you will make a BLD solve without macro very soon, if not alread=
y done one.
>>>
>>> I had a breakthrough on my understanding of reorientation when I talked=
to Raymond Zhao. His suggestion was inspiring. I'll hold the trick to avoi=
d spoiling.
>>>
>>> Nan
>>>
>>> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew"
>>>> Nan,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks :). That result was my personal best though, I'm still fairly =
new to multiBLD and I was fairly convinced I would mess up.
>>>>
>>>> I see, I thought when I read you post that you were more experienced a=
t BLD, but since you seem to have such a talent for puzzles I'm sure you wi=
ll advance quickly. I agree that it's more fun to figure it out yourself f=
irst, and considering BLD in 4D was certainly one of the more interesting e=
xperiences I have had with these puzzles. Can you tell me what systems you=
use for solving and memorising? Using a very basic system for either will=
hinder your attempts at 4D BLD, but neither do you need an advanced system=
. Personally on 3x3x3, I use 3-cycles to solve (mostly BH, which is fairly=
easy if you know how to use commutators), and letter pair images/journeys =
for memorising.
>>>>
>>>> I just finished another attempt at the 2^4, and I'll give a couple of =
minor pointers (no spoilers for methods) which could be useful to avoid the=
two silly mistakes I just made to cause a DNF. Firstly, make sure the twi=
st speed is slow enough that you can easily follow the twists you make, and=
verify that every twist is what you intended. Secondly, if you need to re=
orient one or two pieces in place and think of doing it as CW or CCW from a=
certain viewpoint, make sure that its the same viewpoint you use for decid=
ing which algorithm to use for the reorientation. I had 2 pieces left afte=
r placing all the pieces which were in place but misorientated with one sti=
cker solved in each. I tried to rotate them the wrong way (I memorised and=
recalled correctly, but memorised it from the wrong viewpoint and therefor=
e CW and CCW were switched), and then made a mistake in the algorithm by do=
ing one of my twists in the wrong direction and didn't notice. I guess I w=
as out of pract
> ice
>>> a little, but that's no excuse. Next attempt should be a success a=
t last, unless I make any more silly errors.
>>>> Also, I encourage anyone else in this group who is interested in BLD t=
o try this, it really is fun. And for those who aren't interested in BLD: =
try it, it's fun, interesting, and good for showing off to non-cubers ;-).
>>>>
>>>> Btw, would anyone like me to post my method here or upload a typed up =
tutorial? Should I wait until it has been discussed a little? Obviously i=
f I posted it I would add a suitable spoiler warning for anyone wanting to =
try themselves first (which I recommend).
>>>>
>>>> Matt
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
--------------090405030909070002040504
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
http-equiv="Content-Type">
Hello Nan,
That's a great suggestion about the congratulations help I've added
it to the existing blindfold feature request in the MC4D issue
tracker
Good luck with your multi 3D attempts!
-Melinda
On 8/11/2011 1:26 PM, schuma wrote:
Hi Melinda,
BLD using either MC4D or MPUlt is SLIGHTLY easier than the regular blindfolded solve using a physical puzzle, in the sense that once the puzzle reaches the solved state, a dialog box will prompt me saying it's solved. So in principle, one can apply a devil's algorithm <http://anttila.ca/michael/devilsalgorithm/> blindly until the software tells him it's solved.
On the contrary, BLD solving a physical cube, one has to decide by himself if the solving is done. Nobody watches and says "stop".
Although applying the devil's algorithm is far from practice, I can think of a practical way to take advantage using software. When the pre-determined procedure ends but no dialog box pops, usually the puzzle is very close to the solved state. For example, one piece may be misoriented. At this moment the solver can try to re-orient a piece in a certain way to see if the dialog box comes. If not, he can undo it and re-orient it into another orientation, or work on the next piece, until it is solved or he gives up.
So if you want to add a proper BLD feature to MC4D, you may add a "blindfold" checkbox. Once it is checked, all the stickers turn black or gray. And there should be no congratulation dialog box in this mode. If the solver thinks the puzzle is solved, he may uncheck the "blindfold" checkbox (or click another button called "verify" or something similar) to bring the colors back and see the result. At this moment the congratulation box may come out.
Currently 3^4 is really out of my reach. There's a long way to go. I need some serious training on memorization techniques. I need to buy some new Rubik's cubes (because I have only two 3x3x3s) and practice multiBLD.
Nan
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Melinda Green <melinda@...> wrote:
Let me be the first to congratulate you, Nan!
Now I have to figure out how to explain this to people. Looking at your
screen shot, part of my brain wants to say "that's not blind!". But of
course it is. The visual gray stickers are just mental aids, or perhaps
the controls for an invisible puzzle. I suppose the way to explain it
would be in analogy to a 3D puzzle that you memorize, plan, cover with
gray stickers, and then solve. When finished, you peel them off to see
how you did.
Once you and Matt started discussing the practicalities I had a feeling
that one of you would solve a 4D cube very soon. From your email, I
sense that you are encouraging him to now attempt the first 3^4 blind
solve. If you are worried about feeling badly about rushing for the
first ever 4D solution, please do not. Everyone with the skills to
attempt this was perfectly able to decide for themselves how much effort
to put into the attempt, and you were the one with the most
determination to risk it. The 3^4 is the obvious next plum prize. I
encourage you to give it your best effort if it interests you, and I
wish to send the same message to everyone else as well.
This new category of 4D solutions definitely deserves a special section
in the records wiki. Please upload your solution there along with a
simplified screen shot just like for the other puzzles, just all in
gray. It doesn't matter how you do it. We can always edit and move it
around later.
Regarding spoilers, please feel free to explain your methods and just
put the words *Spoiler Warning* or something like that somewhere in the
subject line.
Congratulations on your amazing feat, and thank you for opening up an
entirely new category of challenges that we have only dreamed about
until now.
-Melinda
On 8/11/2011 12:37 AM, schuma wrote:
Hi,
I just successfully solved 2^4 BLD with macros using MPUlt v1.06. A screenshot, the log file, and the macro-definition file can be found in this folder (I hope this link is permanent):
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/files/Nan%20Ma/BLD2_4/
I used macros extensively. I even included the setup moves in macros to avoid clicking mistakes. As a result, once memo is done, the solving was very fast. The memo time was ~24 min and the solving time was ~2 min. I had two pitiful DNFs before the success. In the first attempt I didn't memorize the orientation of a piece correctly. In the second attempt I clicked a re-orientation macro when I should click a permutation macro in the last step.
I would like to thank Matt for his warning about the reorientation step. I'm sure you will make a BLD solve without macro very soon, if not already done one.
I had a breakthrough on my understanding of reorientation when I talked to Raymond Zhao. His suggestion was inspiring. I'll hold the trick to avoid spoiling.
Nan
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew"<damienturtle@> wrote:
Nan,
Thanks :). That result was my personal best though, I'm still fairly new to multiBLD and I was fairly convinced I would mess up.
I see, I thought when I read you post that you were more experienced at BLD, but since you seem to have such a talent for puzzles I'm sure you will advance quickly. I agree that it's more fun to figure it out yourself first, and considering BLD in 4D was certainly one of the more interesting experiences I have had with these puzzles. Can you tell me what systems you use for solving and memorising? Using a very basic system for either will hinder your attempts at 4D BLD, but neither do you need an advanced system. Personally on 3x3x3, I use 3-cycles to solve (mostly BH, which is fairly easy if you know how to use commutators), and letter pair images/journeys for memorising.
I just finished another attempt at the 2^4, and I'll give a couple of minor pointers (no spoilers for methods) which could be useful to avoid the two silly mistakes I just made to cause a DNF. Firstly, make sure the twist speed is slow enough that you can easily follow the twists you make, and verify that every twist is what you intended. Secondly, if you need to reorient one or two pieces in place and think of doing it as CW or CCW from a certain viewpoint, make sure that its the same viewpoint you use for deciding which algorithm to use for the reorientation. I had 2 pieces left after placing all the pieces which were in place but misorientated with one sticker solved in each. I tried to rotate them the wrong way (I memorised and recalled correctly, but memorised it from the wrong viewpoint and therefore CW and CCW were switched), and then made a mistake in the algorithm by doing one of my twists in the wrong direction and didn't notice. I guess I was out of pract
ice
a little, but that's no excuse. Next attempt should be a success at last, unless I make any more silly errors.
Also, I encourage anyone else in this group who is interested in BLD to try this, it really is fun. And for those who aren't interested in BLD: try it, it's fun, interesting, and good for showing off to non-cubers ;-).
Btw, would anyone like me to post my method here or upload a typed up tutorial? Should I wait until it has been discussed a little? Obviously if I posted it I would add a suitable spoiler warning for anyone wanting to try themselves first (which I recommend).
Matt
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/
<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional
<*> To change settings online go to:
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<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
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--------------090405030909070002040504--
Well done Nan! I'm a little disappointed to have lost the race to the firs=
t 2^4 BLD solve, but I guess you ended up deserving it. I'll just have to =
hurry towards 3^4 BLD to make up for it now. Good luck with the multiBLD w=
hen you get around to it.
I further the request for a built in BLD feature, it would make the experie=
nce feel nicer.
Btw, I don't know if I either don't have the most recent version, or if my =
computer is doing something weird, but I don't get a window telling me when=
the puzzle is solved. It isn't a huge issue, so I won't bother trying to =
fix it, especially as it stops the problem of the program telling me when t=
he puzzle is solved during blind solves.
I think I will wait until I have worked out any kinks in my 3^4 BLD method =
before typing up my methods for 2^4 and 3^4, then I will post them here.
Matt
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Melinda Green
>
> Hello Nan,
>=20
> That's a great suggestion about the congratulations help I've added it=20
> to the existing blindfold feature request in the MC4D issue tracker here=
=20
>
>=20
> Good luck with your multi 3D attempts!
> -Melinda
>=20
> On 8/11/2011 1:26 PM, schuma wrote:
> > Hi Melinda,
> >
> > BLD using either MC4D or MPUlt is SLIGHTLY easier than the regular blin=
dfolded solve using a physical puzzle, in the sense that once the puzzle re=
aches the solved state, a dialog box will prompt me saying it's solved. So =
in principle, one can apply a devil's algorithm
> >
> > On the contrary, BLD solving a physical cube, one has to decide by hims=
elf if the solving is done. Nobody watches and says "stop".
> >
> > Although applying the devil's algorithm is far from practice, I can thi=
nk of a practical way to take advantage using software. When the pre-determ=
ined procedure ends but no dialog box pops, usually the puzzle is very clos=
e to the solved state. For example, one piece may be misoriented. At this m=
oment the solver can try to re-orient a piece in a certain way to see if th=
e dialog box comes. If not, he can undo it and re-orient it into another or=
ientation, or work on the next piece, until it is solved or he gives up.
> >
> > So if you want to add a proper BLD feature to MC4D, you may add a "blin=
dfold" checkbox. Once it is checked, all the stickers turn black or gray. A=
nd there should be no congratulation dialog box in this mode. If the solver=
thinks the puzzle is solved, he may uncheck the "blindfold" checkbox (or c=
lick another button called "verify" or something similar) to bring the colo=
rs back and see the result. At this moment the congratulation box may come =
out.
> >
> > Currently 3^4 is really out of my reach. There's a long way to go. I ne=
ed some serious training on memorization techniques. I need to buy some new=
Rubik's cubes (because I have only two 3x3x3s) and practice multiBLD.
> >
> > Nan
> >
> >
> > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Melinda Green
> >> Let me be the first to congratulate you, Nan!
> >>
> >> Now I have to figure out how to explain this to people. Looking at you=
r
> >> screen shot, part of my brain wants to say "that's not blind!". But of
> >> course it is. The visual gray stickers are just mental aids, or perhap=
s
> >> the controls for an invisible puzzle. I suppose the way to explain it
> >> would be in analogy to a 3D puzzle that you memorize, plan, cover wit=
h
> >> gray stickers, and then solve. When finished, you peel them off to see
> >> how you did.
> >>
> >> Once you and Matt started discussing the practicalities I had a feelin=
g
> >> that one of you would solve a 4D cube very soon. From your email, I
> >> sense that you are encouraging him to now attempt the first 3^4 blind
> >> solve. If you are worried about feeling badly about rushing for the
> >> first ever 4D solution, please do not. Everyone with the skills to
> >> attempt this was perfectly able to decide for themselves how much effo=
rt
> >> to put into the attempt, and you were the one with the most
> >> determination to risk it. The 3^4 is the obvious next plum prize. I
> >> encourage you to give it your best effort if it interests you, and I
> >> wish to send the same message to everyone else as well.
> >>
> >> This new category of 4D solutions definitely deserves a special sectio=
n
> >> in the records wiki. Please upload your solution there along with a
> >> simplified screen shot just like for the other puzzles, just all in
> >> gray. It doesn't matter how you do it. We can always edit and move it
> >> around later.
> >>
> >> Regarding spoilers, please feel free to explain your methods and just
> >> put the words *Spoiler Warning* or something like that somewhere in th=
e
> >> subject line.
> >>
> >> Congratulations on your amazing feat, and thank you for opening up an
> >> entirely new category of challenges that we have only dreamed about
> >> until now.
> >>
> >> -Melinda
> >>
> >> On 8/11/2011 12:37 AM, schuma wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
>=20
> >>> I just successfully solved 2^4 BLD with macros using MPUlt v1.06. A s=
creenshot, the log file, and the macro-definition file can be found in this=
folder (I hope this link is permanent):
> >>>
> >>> http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/files/Nan%20Ma/BLD2_4/
> >>>
> >>> I used macros extensively. I even included the setup moves in macros =
to avoid clicking mistakes. As a result, once memo is done, the solving was=
very fast. The memo time was ~24 min and the solving time was ~2 min. I ha=
d two pitiful DNFs before the success. In the first attempt I didn't memori=
ze the orientation of a piece correctly. In the second attempt I clicked a =
re-orientation macro when I should click a permutation macro in the last st=
ep.
> >>>
> >>> I would like to thank Matt for his warning about the reorientation st=
ep. I'm sure you will make a BLD solve without macro very soon, if not alre=
ady done one.
> >>>
> >>> I had a breakthrough on my understanding of reorientation when I talk=
ed to Raymond Zhao. His suggestion was inspiring. I'll hold the trick to av=
oid spoiling.
> >>>
> >>> Nan
> >>>
> >>> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew"
> >>>> Nan,
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks :). That result was my personal best though, I'm still fairl=
y new to multiBLD and I was fairly convinced I would mess up.
> >>>>
> >>>> I see, I thought when I read you post that you were more experienced=
at BLD, but since you seem to have such a talent for puzzles I'm sure you =
will advance quickly. I agree that it's more fun to figure it out yourself=
first, and considering BLD in 4D was certainly one of the more interesting=
experiences I have had with these puzzles. Can you tell me what systems y=
ou use for solving and memorising? Using a very basic system for either wi=
ll hinder your attempts at 4D BLD, but neither do you need an advanced syst=
em. Personally on 3x3x3, I use 3-cycles to solve (mostly BH, which is fair=
ly easy if you know how to use commutators), and letter pair images/journey=
s for memorising.
> >>>>
> >>>> I just finished another attempt at the 2^4, and I'll give a couple o=
f minor pointers (no spoilers for methods) which could be useful to avoid t=
he two silly mistakes I just made to cause a DNF. Firstly, make sure the t=
wist speed is slow enough that you can easily follow the twists you make, a=
nd verify that every twist is what you intended. Secondly, if you need to =
reorient one or two pieces in place and think of doing it as CW or CCW from=
a certain viewpoint, make sure that its the same viewpoint you use for dec=
iding which algorithm to use for the reorientation. I had 2 pieces left af=
ter placing all the pieces which were in place but misorientated with one s=
ticker solved in each. I tried to rotate them the wrong way (I memorised a=
nd recalled correctly, but memorised it from the wrong viewpoint and theref=
ore CW and CCW were switched), and then made a mistake in the algorithm by =
doing one of my twists in the wrong direction and didn't notice. I guess I=
was out of pract
> > ice
> >>> a little, but that's no excuse. Next attempt should be a success=
at last, unless I make any more silly errors.
> >>>> Also, I encourage anyone else in this group who is interested in BLD=
to try this, it really is fun. And for those who aren't interested in BLD=
: try it, it's fun, interesting, and good for showing off to non-cubers ;-)=
.
> >>>>
> >>>> Btw, would anyone like me to post my method here or upload a typed u=
p tutorial? Should I wait until it has been discussed a little? Obviously=
if I posted it I would add a suitable spoiler warning for anyone wanting t=
o try themselves first (which I recommend).
> >>>>
> >>>> Matt
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Matt,=20
Thanks a lot. I really don't want my solve to hinder your goal of BLD 2^4 w=
ithout macros. If I were you I would BLD 2^4 without macros before attempti=
ng 3^4, because it has been very close to success for a long time.=20
Using macros makes the BLD solve much much faster so that I feel like cheat=
ing. This is why it's like cheating: using macros, I didn't make a single t=
wist on the hypercube. I just ran macros here and there according to a memo=
rized sequence. This is a very different experience.=20
So I would say BLD 2^4 without macros is indeed a great feat and you have a=
great chance to make it. Good luck.
Nan
--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew"
>
> Well done Nan! I'm a little disappointed to have lost the race to the fi=
rst 2^4 BLD solve, but I guess you ended up deserving it. I'll just have t=
o hurry towards 3^4 BLD to make up for it now. Good luck with the multiBLD=
when you get around to it.
>=20
> I further the request for a built in BLD feature, it would make the exper=
ience feel nicer.
>=20
> Btw, I don't know if I either don't have the most recent version, or if m=
y computer is doing something weird, but I don't get a window telling me wh=
en the puzzle is solved. It isn't a huge issue, so I won't bother trying t=
o fix it, especially as it stops the problem of the program telling me when=
the puzzle is solved during blind solves.
>=20
> I think I will wait until I have worked out any kinks in my 3^4 BLD metho=
d before typing up my methods for 2^4 and 3^4, then I will post them here.
>=20
> Matt
>=20
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Melinda Green
> >
> > Hello Nan,
> >=20
> > That's a great suggestion about the congratulations help I've added it=
=20
> > to the existing blindfold feature request in the MC4D issue tracker her=
e=20
> >
> >=20
> > Good luck with your multi 3D attempts!
> > -Melinda
> >=20
> > On 8/11/2011 1:26 PM, schuma wrote:
> > > Hi Melinda,
> > >
> > > BLD using either MC4D or MPUlt is SLIGHTLY easier than the regular bl=
indfolded solve using a physical puzzle, in the sense that once the puzzle =
reaches the solved state, a dialog box will prompt me saying it's solved. S=
o in principle, one can apply a devil's algorithm
> > >
> > > On the contrary, BLD solving a physical cube, one has to decide by hi=
mself if the solving is done. Nobody watches and says "stop".
> > >
> > > Although applying the devil's algorithm is far from practice, I can t=
hink of a practical way to take advantage using software. When the pre-dete=
rmined procedure ends but no dialog box pops, usually the puzzle is very cl=
ose to the solved state. For example, one piece may be misoriented. At this=
moment the solver can try to re-orient a piece in a certain way to see if =
the dialog box comes. If not, he can undo it and re-orient it into another =
orientation, or work on the next piece, until it is solved or he gives up.
> > >
> > > So if you want to add a proper BLD feature to MC4D, you may add a "bl=
indfold" checkbox. Once it is checked, all the stickers turn black or gray.=
And there should be no congratulation dialog box in this mode. If the solv=
er thinks the puzzle is solved, he may uncheck the "blindfold" checkbox (or=
click another button called "verify" or something similar) to bring the co=
lors back and see the result. At this moment the congratulation box may com=
e out.
> > >
> > > Currently 3^4 is really out of my reach. There's a long way to go. I =
need some serious training on memorization techniques. I need to buy some n=
ew Rubik's cubes (because I have only two 3x3x3s) and practice multiBLD.
> > >
> > > Nan
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Melinda Green
> > >> Let me be the first to congratulate you, Nan!
> > >>
> > >> Now I have to figure out how to explain this to people. Looking at y=
our
> > >> screen shot, part of my brain wants to say "that's not blind!". But =
of
> > >> course it is. The visual gray stickers are just mental aids, or perh=
aps
> > >> the controls for an invisible puzzle. I suppose the way to explain i=
t
> > >> would be in analogy to a 3D puzzle that you memorize, plan, cover w=
ith
> > >> gray stickers, and then solve. When finished, you peel them off to s=
ee
> > >> how you did.
> > >>
> > >> Once you and Matt started discussing the practicalities I had a feel=
ing
> > >> that one of you would solve a 4D cube very soon. From your email, I
> > >> sense that you are encouraging him to now attempt the first 3^4 blin=
d
> > >> solve. If you are worried about feeling badly about rushing for the
> > >> first ever 4D solution, please do not. Everyone with the skills to
> > >> attempt this was perfectly able to decide for themselves how much ef=
fort
> > >> to put into the attempt, and you were the one with the most
> > >> determination to risk it. The 3^4 is the obvious next plum prize. I
> > >> encourage you to give it your best effort if it interests you, and I
> > >> wish to send the same message to everyone else as well.
> > >>
> > >> This new category of 4D solutions definitely deserves a special sect=
ion
> > >> in the records wiki. Please upload your solution there along with a
> > >> simplified screen shot just like for the other puzzles, just all in
> > >> gray. It doesn't matter how you do it. We can always edit and move i=
t
> > >> around later.
> > >>
> > >> Regarding spoilers, please feel free to explain your methods and jus=
t
> > >> put the words *Spoiler Warning* or something like that somewhere in =
the
> > >> subject line.
> > >>
> > >> Congratulations on your amazing feat, and thank you for opening up a=
n
> > >> entirely new category of challenges that we have only dreamed about
> > >> until now.
> > >>
> > >> -Melinda
> > >>
> > >> On 8/11/2011 12:37 AM, schuma wrote:
> > >>> Hi,
> > >>>
> >=20
> > >>> I just successfully solved 2^4 BLD with macros using MPUlt v1.06. A=
screenshot, the log file, and the macro-definition file can be found in th=
is folder (I hope this link is permanent):
> > >>>
> > >>> http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/files/Nan%20Ma/BLD2_4=
/
> > >>>
> > >>> I used macros extensively. I even included the setup moves in macro=
s to avoid clicking mistakes. As a result, once memo is done, the solving w=
as very fast. The memo time was ~24 min and the solving time was ~2 min. I =
had two pitiful DNFs before the success. In the first attempt I didn't memo=
rize the orientation of a piece correctly. In the second attempt I clicked =
a re-orientation macro when I should click a permutation macro in the last =
step.
> > >>>
> > >>> I would like to thank Matt for his warning about the reorientation =
step. I'm sure you will make a BLD solve without macro very soon, if not al=
ready done one.
> > >>>
> > >>> I had a breakthrough on my understanding of reorientation when I ta=
lked to Raymond Zhao. His suggestion was inspiring. I'll hold the trick to =
avoid spoiling.
> > >>>
> > >>> Nan
> > >>>
> > >>> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew"
> > >>>> Nan,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks :). That result was my personal best though, I'm still fai=
rly new to multiBLD and I was fairly convinced I would mess up.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I see, I thought when I read you post that you were more experienc=
ed at BLD, but since you seem to have such a talent for puzzles I'm sure yo=
u will advance quickly. I agree that it's more fun to figure it out yourse=
lf first, and considering BLD in 4D was certainly one of the more interesti=
ng experiences I have had with these puzzles. Can you tell me what systems=
you use for solving and memorising? Using a very basic system for either =
will hinder your attempts at 4D BLD, but neither do you need an advanced sy=
stem. Personally on 3x3x3, I use 3-cycles to solve (mostly BH, which is fa=
irly easy if you know how to use commutators), and letter pair images/journ=
eys for memorising.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I just finished another attempt at the 2^4, and I'll give a couple=
of minor pointers (no spoilers for methods) which could be useful to avoid=
the two silly mistakes I just made to cause a DNF. Firstly, make sure the=
twist speed is slow enough that you can easily follow the twists you make,=
and verify that every twist is what you intended. Secondly, if you need t=
o reorient one or two pieces in place and think of doing it as CW or CCW fr=
om a certain viewpoint, make sure that its the same viewpoint you use for d=
eciding which algorithm to use for the reorientation. I had 2 pieces left =
after placing all the pieces which were in place but misorientated with one=
sticker solved in each. I tried to rotate them the wrong way (I memorised=
and recalled correctly, but memorised it from the wrong viewpoint and ther=
efore CW and CCW were switched), and then made a mistake in the algorithm b=
y doing one of my twists in the wrong direction and didn't notice. I guess=
I was out of pract
> > > ice
> > >>> a little, but that's no excuse. Next attempt should be a succe=
ss at last, unless I make any more silly errors.
> > >>>> Also, I encourage anyone else in this group who is interested in B=
LD to try this, it really is fun. And for those who aren't interested in B=
LD: try it, it's fun, interesting, and good for showing off to non-cubers ;=
-).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Btw, would anyone like me to post my method here or upload a typed=
up tutorial? Should I wait until it has been discussed a little? Obvious=
ly if I posted it I would add a suitable spoiler warning for anyone wanting=
to try themselves first (which I recommend).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Matt
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> ------------------------------------
> > >>>
> > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>