Thread: "yet more new puzzles and a prize"

border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">

=3D"#000000">
* Consider adding an "auto pan" option analogous to autorotat=
e in
MC4D.

border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">

=3D"#000000">
* Consider replacing highlighting of circle edges to brightening the
interiors like we do in MC4D.=A0

"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding=
-left:1ex;">

* Add option for interaction sounds like in MC4D.

>

I like both these thoughts, and they are added to my l=
ist now too.

=A0

margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">

Regarding sounds, I feel that it goes a long way towards giving the
puzzles a physical feeling, but maybe that's only me. Quick poll:
Who here turns off sounds, shadows, and ground plane in MC4D? I'm
wondering how valuable these sorts of things are.

>

I agree. =A0For the poll, I often have shadows/ground=
=A0on when I'm just playing around with the program, but turn them off=
=A0when solving (when I'm not necessarily going for a physical feeling)=
. =A0Sound is a similar thing, though is much more correlated to whether I&=
#39;m listening to music or not :)

se: collapse; font-family: arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; ">

I hop=
e you have a pleasant weekend. The weather is awesome in Austin, so it is t=
urning into a nice one here.

seeya,

Roice

>

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Thanks David,

I'm glad v2 is at least working for a couple of you!

I did come up with those phrases in the first version, and was thinking to
maybe recycle them here. But I also want to do my UI waiting with OpenGL
rendering rather than how I did it before. I did the circle thing in the
meantime because it was simple, quick and took hardly any coding, and also
because OpenTK (the library I'm using for C# OpenGL) doesn't seem to
support text yet. So I may come back to that later (not sure).

Best of luck on the new test :)

seeya,
Roice


On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 1:46 PM, David Smith wrote:

>
>
> Hi Roice,
>
> Congratulations on this new release! It's unfortunate that there appear to
> be some
> issues. I am enjoying running it on 64-bit Windows 7. If you need any
> further
> information which can help you track down this bug, feel free to let me
> know.
>
> The hyperbolic panning is great! I remember you saying long ago that it
> would
> be very difficult to implement, but it looks like you did a fantastic job!
> Great
> work, and good luck with your further updates!
>
> By the way, this is completely irrelevant, but I loved the messages that
> appeared
> when loading puzzles in the old version! :) But, your circles animation
> replacement
> is also good. Did you come up with those phrases yourself?
>
> Anyway, great job! I look forward to seeing who will win your contest.
> This
> would give me a great excuse to finally learning how to solve these
> puzzles,
> but I'm quite busy at this time. One day I promise to teach myself these
> puzzles! I'll write to you soon, but for now I'm hoping to break my
> personal
> record high I.Q. score on a new test. The world record is most likely an
> unattainable goal, but I can dream!
>
> All the best,
> David
>

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Thanks David,

Hi guys,

I finally got a computer that can run MagicTile v2 preview. Knowing that th=
e challenge is still open, I looked into the three {3,7} puzzles. I wonder =
if anyone is attempting these puzzles. After spending several minutes playi=
ng, I have the following thoughts.

VT is obviously the easiest. The main difficulty is that, there are too man=
y colors. 56 colors, right? Sometimes I'm embarrassed because I can't find =
the piece I need. Sometimes I thought I found a desired piece. But only whe=
n I moved it to the destination, I found the colors were actually different=
. Because of this difficulty, the puzzle is not as easy as it should be. Bu=
t still, it's not hard. It just takes a little bit more time. By the way, u=
nder the default color setting, there are two blue triangle (color 3 and co=
lor 33). They are identical colors and one should change one of them.=20

ET is something serious. I quickly found all the 3-cycle algorithms. They a=
re pretty short and easy to find. As far as I currently know, the difficult=
ies may be:
(1) Too many colors. Hard to find a piece.
(2) Too many pieces, nearly 1000 pieces. Tedious.
(3) Hidden global orientation. This is tricky. In the beginning one should =
not assume a triangle to be the white triangle and start solving. He/she ne=
eds to study the scrambled state, and deduce which triangle is the "white" =
triangle, which is the blue one etc. Then he/she can start solving based on=
the deduced "orientation". If you don't do it in the beginning and make an=
arbitrary assumption, it's probably wrong and you are going into a dead en=
d. I met this issue on edge turning dodecahedra, e.g., Gelatinbrain 1.4.10.=
Brandon must know what I'm talking about.

FT is even harder, because the 3-cycle algorithms seem to be longer than ET=
. So macros would be very helpful here. At this point I can't tell if I'm p=
atient enough to solve it or not. I guess one need approximately or more th=
an 20 hours to solve it. I won't attempt it before solving VT and ET.

Nan

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Roice Nelson wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>=20
> MagicTile v2 has been coming along well lately, so I wanted to share a
> preview (not that we need any more puzzles at the moment!). It is a big
> user experience improvement over v1, mostly due to my favorite new
> capability - *smooth hyperbolic panning*! Click and drag to your heart's
> content.
>=20
> Not a huge number of puzzles in the menus yet, only the ones I've been
> distracted towards or used in development, but they are unique. Also, th=
ey
> are configured in xml and easy to set up, so if anyone would like to see
> something in particular, just let me know. I'm finding the most difficul=
t
> (but perhaps most interesting) task is working out the coloring patterns =
-
> that is, how to identify cells with each other. So if you request a puzz=
le,
> I may turn around and ask for help like I did for the {8,3} tiling.
>=20
> Here's what is available so far:
>=20
> - {3,7} face/edge/vertex turning
> - {8,3} 24 Color, 10 Color and alternate 12 Color (The last two surpri=
sed
> me and the 10 Color is especially pretty.)
> - {4,6} and {6,4} "Petals"
> - {5,5} - These are seriously strange... non-orientable, 6-colors.
> Should be awesome, so check them out!
> - {4,4} Variants
> - Klein Bottles - There's a Nan/Brandon/Andrey difficulty-level
> puzzle that is both face+edge turning :)
> - {6,3} - A 7-color and a vertex turning 16-color.
> - Also nice is that you can no longer pan to the edge of the euclidean
> tilings - they will just go on forever.
>=20
>=20
> I like that Melinda gave out a prize in the speed cubing competition, so =
I'd
> like to offer to send a MC4D crystal
> cube348453195820638338>to
> *the first person to solve all three of the {3,7} puzzles*. I know there
> are 115 stickers that move through a twist in the face turning puzzle, so=
me
> of them tiny. I know there are a ton of colors. I know there are no mac=
ros
> or piece finding yet. I only offered the prize, and didn't say it would =
be
> easy! I hope the challenge will hold the group at bay for a while, maybe
> until new features are implemented, maybe forever. Yeah right! :D
>=20
> Here are the files (I haven't made an installer). It requires the .NET
> Framework 4=3D9cfb2d51-5ff4-4491-b0e5-b386f32c0992>,
> but I'd only worry about that if it doesn't work after simply unzipping a=
nd
> attempting the run the exe.
>=20
> www.gravitation3d.com/magictile/downloads/MagicTile_v2_5-14-11.zip
>=20
> Cheers,
> Roice
>

Hi,
I've tried these puzzles long time ago. As far as I remember, I've solved=
VT version, then tried ET, find some 3-cycle for some kind of pieces (don'=
t remember which) - it was 14 or 22 twists, then imagined what setup sequen=
cies will look like (with very limited operational freedom) and desided to =
go away from this puzzle :( So now I have nothing to say about FT and ET...

Andrey

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "schuma" wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>=20
> I finally got a computer that can run MagicTile v2 preview. Knowing that =
the challenge is still open, I looked into the three {3,7} puzzles. I wonde=
r if anyone is attempting these puzzles. After spending several minutes pla=
ying, I have the following thoughts.
>=20
> VT is obviously the easiest. The main difficulty is that, there are too m=
any colors. 56 colors, right? Sometimes I'm embarrassed because I can't fin=
d the piece I need. Sometimes I thought I found a desired piece. But only w=
hen I moved it to the destination, I found the colors were actually differe=
nt. Because of this difficulty, the puzzle is not as easy as it should be. =
But still, it's not hard. It just takes a little bit more time. By the way,=
under the default color setting, there are two blue triangle (color 3 and =
color 33). They are identical colors and one should change one of them.=20
>=20
> ET is something serious. I quickly found all the 3-cycle algorithms. They=
are pretty short and easy to find. As far as I currently know, the difficu=
lties may be:
> (1) Too many colors. Hard to find a piece.
> (2) Too many pieces, nearly 1000 pieces. Tedious.
> (3) Hidden global orientation. This is tricky. In the beginning one shoul=
d not assume a triangle to be the white triangle and start solving. He/she =
needs to study the scrambled state, and deduce which triangle is the "white=
" triangle, which is the blue one etc. Then he/she can start solving based =
on the deduced "orientation". If you don't do it in the beginning and make =
an arbitrary assumption, it's probably wrong and you are going into a dead =
end. I met this issue on edge turning dodecahedra, e.g., Gelatinbrain 1.4.1=
0. Brandon must know what I'm talking about.
>=20
> FT is even harder, because the 3-cycle algorithms seem to be longer than =
ET. So macros would be very helpful here. At this point I can't tell if I'm=
patient enough to solve it or not. I guess one need approximately or more =
than 20 hours to solve it. I won't attempt it before solving VT and ET.
>=20
> Nan
>=20
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Roice Nelson wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >=20
> > MagicTile v2 has been coming along well lately, so I wanted to share a
> > preview (not that we need any more puzzles at the moment!). It is a bi=
g
> > user experience improvement over v1, mostly due to my favorite new
> > capability - *smooth hyperbolic panning*! Click and drag to your heart=
's
> > content.
> >=20
> > Not a huge number of puzzles in the menus yet, only the ones I've been
> > distracted towards or used in development, but they are unique. Also, =
they
> > are configured in xml and easy to set up, so if anyone would like to se=
e
> > something in particular, just let me know. I'm finding the most diffic=
ult
> > (but perhaps most interesting) task is working out the coloring pattern=
s -
> > that is, how to identify cells with each other. So if you request a pu=
zzle,
> > I may turn around and ask for help like I did for the {8,3} tiling.
> >=20
> > Here's what is available so far:
> >=20
> > - {3,7} face/edge/vertex turning
> > - {8,3} 24 Color, 10 Color and alternate 12 Color (The last two surp=
rised
> > me and the 10 Color is especially pretty.)
> > - {4,6} and {6,4} "Petals"
> > - {5,5} - These are seriously strange... non-orientable, 6-colors.
> > Should be awesome, so check them out!
> > - {4,4} Variants
> > - Klein Bottles - There's a Nan/Brandon/Andrey difficulty-level
> > puzzle that is both face+edge turning :)
> > - {6,3} - A 7-color and a vertex turning 16-color.
> > - Also nice is that you can no longer pan to the edge of the euclide=
an
> > tilings - they will just go on forever.
> >=20
> >=20
> > I like that Melinda gave out a prize in the speed cubing competition, s=
o I'd
> > like to offer to send a MC4D crystal
> > cube#5348453195820638338>to
> > *the first person to solve all three of the {3,7} puzzles*. I know the=
re
> > are 115 stickers that move through a twist in the face turning puzzle, =
some
> > of them tiny. I know there are a ton of colors. I know there are no m=
acros
> > or piece finding yet. I only offered the prize, and didn't say it woul=
d be
> > easy! I hope the challenge will hold the group at bay for a while, may=
be
> > until new features are implemented, maybe forever. Yeah right! :D
> >=20
> > Here are the files (I haven't made an installer). It requires the .NET
> > Framework 4=3D9cfb2d51-5ff4-4491-b0e5-b386f32c0992>,
> > but I'd only worry about that if it doesn't work after simply unzipping=
and
> > attempting the run the exe.
> >=20
> > www.gravitation3d.com/magictile/downloads/MagicTile_v2_5-14-11.zip
> >=20
> > Cheers,
> > Roice
> >
>

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About hidden global orientation of the ET {3,7} and other puzzles, the
"reset view" feature of the program allows the user to cheat on this.
First note the unscrambled colors with a reset view - white triangle is in
the center, blue to the left of it, etc. Then if you begin your solve with
a reset view as well, you can safely start solving the white to the center,
blue to the left, and so on. This cheat helps a little in that you can
observe the pattern of colors rather than having to deduce it.

Thank you for the observations on these puzzles. I thought they'd be
difficult, but I must say I didn't realize how difficult when I made the
challenge! I will start thinking some about how to do macros and piece
finding. Macros should be interesting, in particular figuring out how the
user will specify the relative position/orientation to apply them
arbitrarily in the hyperbolic plane.

Cheers,
Roice


On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 8:00 PM, schuma wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> I finally got a computer that can run MagicTile v2 preview. Knowing that
> the challenge is still open, I looked into the three {3,7} puzzles. I
> wonder if anyone is attempting these puzzles. After spending several
> minutes playing, I have the following thoughts.
>
> VT is obviously the easiest. The main difficulty is that, there are too
> many colors. 56 colors, right? Sometimes I'm embarrassed because I can't
> find the piece I need. Sometimes I thought I found a desired piece. But
> only when I moved it to the destination, I found the colors were actually
> different. Because of this difficulty, the puzzle is not as easy as it
> should be. But still, it's not hard. It just takes a little bit more time.
> By the way, under the default color setting, there are two blue triangle
> (color 3 and color 33). They are identical colors and one should change one
> of them.
>
> ET is something serious. I quickly found all the 3-cycle algorithms. They
> are pretty short and easy to find. As far as I currently know, the
> difficulties may be:
> (1) Too many colors. Hard to find a piece.
> (2) Too many pieces, nearly 1000 pieces. Tedious.
> (3) Hidden global orientation. This is tricky. In the beginning one should
> not assume a triangle to be the white triangle and start solving. He/she
> needs to study the scrambled state, and deduce which triangle is the
> "white" triangle, which is the blue one etc. Then he/she can start solving
> based on the deduced "orientation". If you don't do it in the beginning and
> make an arbitrary assumption, it's probably wrong and you are going into a
> dead end. I met this issue on edge turning dodecahedra, e.g., Gelatinbrain
> 1.4.10. Brandon must know what I'm talking about.
>
> FT is even harder, because the 3-cycle algorithms seem to be longer than
> ET. So macros would be very helpful here. At this point I can't tell if I'm
> patient enough to solve it or not. I guess one need approximately or more
> than 20 hours to solve it. I won't attempt it before solving VT and ET.
>
> Nan
>

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About hidden global orientation of the ET {3,7} and other puzzles, the &quo=
t;reset view" feature of the program allows the user to cheat on this.=
=A0First note the unscrambled colors with a reset view - white triangle is=
in the center, blue to the left of it, etc. =A0Then if you begin your solv=
e with a reset view as well, you can safely start solving the white to the =
center, blue to the left, and so on. =A0This cheat helps a little in that y=
ou can observe the pattern of colors rather than having to deduce it.


Thank you for the observations on these puzzles. =A0I thought they'=
d be difficult, but I must say I didn't realize how difficult when I ma=
de the challenge! =A0I will start thinking some about how to do macros and =
piece finding. =A0Macros should be interesting, in particular figuring out =
how the user will specify the relative position/orientation to apply them a=
rbitrarily in the hyperbolic plane.


Cheers,
Roice

Hi Roice,

I've never realized this way to "cheat" to get the global orientation. Also=
, if the piece finding function is added, getting the global orientation is=
trivial.=20

Between piece-finding and macros, I think the macros help me more in terms =
of solving. But even with none of them, I think I will attempt to solve the=
ET {3,7}.

Just now I wanted to propose a "rotation" function in addition to panning. =
But then I realized that for hyperbolic puzzles, rotation can actually be d=
one by dragging circularly. That is, if you drag (=3D pan) the hyperbolic p=
lane in a circle clockwise, the net effect is that the puzzle is rotating c=
lockwise. The larger the circle, the faster it rotates. It's a enjoyable wa=
y to do rotation and I'm very happy with it. It's a (noncommutative) proper=
ty of panning, just like if you roll a ball on the floor on a small circle =
for a while, the net effect is rotation along the vertical axis.=20

Nan

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Roice Nelson wrote:
>
> About hidden global orientation of the ET {3,7} and other puzzles, the
> "reset view" feature of the program allows the user to cheat on this.
> First note the unscrambled colors with a reset view - white triangle is =
in
> the center, blue to the left of it, etc. Then if you begin your solve wi=
th
> a reset view as well, you can safely start solving the white to the cente=
r,
> blue to the left, and so on. This cheat helps a little in that you can
> observe the pattern of colors rather than having to deduce it.
>=20
> Thank you for the observations on these puzzles. I thought they'd be
> difficult, but I must say I didn't realize how difficult when I made the
> challenge! I will start thinking some about how to do macros and piece
> finding. Macros should be interesting, in particular figuring out how th=
e
> user will specify the relative position/orientation to apply them
> arbitrarily in the hyperbolic plane.
>=20
> Cheers,
> Roice

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Middle-mouse drag will do a rotation for you (or on a laptop, left+right
drag at the same time).

I find the noncommutative panning in spherical/hyperbolic spaces really
neat too (doesn't happen for Euclidean space, so middle-mouse control is
required there). The code for Don's hyperbolic tesselations
appletwas super helpful
in understanding and implementing this. Internally, you
can see he played with a few different motion models, some of which
anti-precess rather than precess! That is, dragging clockwise results in a
counterclockwise rotation of the space. I found that I liked the one he
settled on for his applet the best too, though it'd be nice to add in some
of the others as an option.

seeya,
Roice


On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 1:39 PM, schuma wrote:

> Hi Roice,
>
> I've never realized this way to "cheat" to get the global orientation.
> Also, if the piece finding function is added, getting the global
> orientation is trivial.
>
> Between piece-finding and macros, I think the macros help me more in terms
> of solving. But even with none of them, I think I will attempt to solve the
> ET {3,7}.
>
> Just now I wanted to propose a "rotation" function in addition to panning.
> But then I realized that for hyperbolic puzzles, rotation can actually be
> done by dragging circularly. That is, if you drag (= pan) the hyperbolic
> plane in a circle clockwise, the net effect is that the puzzle is rotating
> clockwise. The larger the circle, the faster it rotates. It's a enjoyable
> way to do rotation and I'm very happy with it. It's a (noncommutative)
> property of panning, just like if you roll a ball on the floor on a small
> circle for a while, the net effect is rotation along the vertical axis.
>
> Nan

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Middle-mouse drag will do a rotation for you (or on a laptop, left+right dr=
ag at the same time).

Sorry for not noticing the middle mouse drag function.

In Don's applet I don't know how to change to another motion model. Poincar=
e model/Klein model behave in the same way. I'm not surprised by anti-proce=
ssion because rolling a ball is anti-procession. Since sphere and hyperboli=
c plane are opposite, it's natural to see procession in the hyperbolic plan=
e. But I don't know how to see anti-procession in hyperbolic.

Nan

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Roice Nelson wrote:
>
> Middle-mouse drag will do a rotation for you (or on a laptop, left+right
> drag at the same time).
>=20
> I find the noncommutative panning in spherical/hyperbolic spaces really
> neat too (doesn't happen for Euclidean space, so middle-mouse control is
> required there). The code for Don's hyperbolic tesselations
> appletwas super helpful
> in understanding and implementing this. Internally, you
> can see he played with a few different motion models, some of which
> anti-precess rather than precess! That is, dragging clockwise results in=
a
> counterclockwise rotation of the space. I found that I liked the one he
> settled on for his applet the best too, though it'd be nice to add in som=
e
> of the others as an option.
>=20
> seeya,
> Roice
>=20
>=20
> On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 1:39 PM, schuma wrote:
>=20
> > Hi Roice,
> >
> > I've never realized this way to "cheat" to get the global orientation.
> > Also, if the piece finding function is added, getting the global
> > orientation is trivial.
> >
> > Between piece-finding and macros, I think the macros help me more in te=
rms
> > of solving. But even with none of them, I think I will attempt to solve=
the
> > ET {3,7}.
> >
> > Just now I wanted to propose a "rotation" function in addition to panni=
ng.
> > But then I realized that for hyperbolic puzzles, rotation can actually =
be
> > done by dragging circularly. That is, if you drag (=3D pan) the hyperbo=
lic
> > plane in a circle clockwise, the net effect is that the puzzle is rotat=
ing
> > clockwise. The larger the circle, the faster it rotates. It's a enjoyab=
le
> > way to do rotation and I'm very happy with it. It's a (noncommutative)
> > property of panning, just like if you roll a ball on the floor on a sma=
ll
> > circle for a while, the net effect is rotation along the vertical axis.
> >
> > Nan
>

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No worries at all - I had just wanted to let you know rotation was
available.

It looks like Don has hardcoded the motion model (which he did
independently of the hyperbolic geometry model), and not provided a key
toggle to switch it. My apologies for not mentioning that earlier. To see
the other models, you'd need to recompile his applet after altering the
code. In the version I have downloaded, the code is around line 1374 of
the file HyperbolicApplet.prejava file, and looks like this:

//int motionModel = TRACKBALL;
//int motionModel = DRAG_GEODESIC;
//int motionModel = DRAG_NONPRECESSING;
int motionModel = DRAG_PURETRANSLATE_CLAMPED;

You could change what is commented to try the other models. Getting a
setup to recompile would probably take some effort though.

With regards to hyperbolic geometry models, I've played with a few of these
in MagicTile, but I haven't yet made the controls work for them. I just
uploaded a couple pictures... some puzzles in the Klein model, and one
pasted on the pseudosphere .
The Klein model may become my favorite view when solving puzzles. It has
a very spherical feel to it, due to circles getting squashed towards the
edges, and magnifies pieces near the center. I don't think the
pseudosphere ends up being a very workable view, since you can't show a
large percentage of the hyperbolic plane on it at once.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/photos/album/1694853720/pic/list

seeya,
Roice


On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 4:38 PM, schuma wrote:

> Sorry for not noticing the middle mouse drag function.
>
> In Don's applet I don't know how to change to another motion model.
> Poincare model/Klein model behave in the same way. I'm not surprised by
> anti-procession because rolling a ball is anti-procession. Since sphere and
> hyperbolic plane are opposite, it's natural to see procession in the
> hyperbolic plane. But I don't know how to see anti-procession in hyperbolic.
>
> Nan
>
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Roice Nelson wrote:
> >
> > Middle-mouse drag will do a rotation for you (or on a laptop, left+right
> > drag at the same time).
> >
> > I find the noncommutative panning in spherical/hyperbolic spaces really
> > neat too (doesn't happen for Euclidean space, so middle-mouse control is
> > required there). The code for Don's hyperbolic tesselations
> > appletwas super helpful
> > in understanding and implementing this. Internally, you
> > can see he played with a few different motion models, some of which
> > anti-precess rather than precess! That is, dragging clockwise results
> in a
> > counterclockwise rotation of the space. I found that I liked the one he
> > settled on for his applet the best too, though it'd be nice to add in
> some
> > of the others as an option.
> >
> > seeya,
> > Roice
>

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No worries at all - I had just wanted to let you know rotation was availabl=
e.

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Hi Roice,

About the Klein quartic, I'm curious if the vertex turning and edge turning
{7,3} can be made. They have less colors than the {3,7} counterparts. So it
should be easier to find pieces on them. Thanks.

Nan

On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 4:42 PM, Roice Nelson wrote:

> **
>
>
> No worries at all - I had just wanted to let you know rotation was
> available.
>
> It looks like Don has hardcoded the motion model (which he did
> independently of the hyperbolic geometry model), and not provided a key
> toggle to switch it. My apologies for not mentioning that earlier. To s=
ee
> the other models, you'd need to recompile his applet after altering the
> code. In the version I have downloaded, the code is around line 1374 of
> the file HyperbolicApplet.prejava file, and looks like this:
>
> //int motionModel =3D TRACKBALL;
> //int motionModel =3D DRAG_GEODESIC;
> //int motionModel =3D DRAG_NONPRECESSING;
> int motionModel =3D DRAG_PURETRANSLATE_CLAMPED;
>
> You could change what is commented to try the other models. Getting a
> setup to recompile would probably take some effort though.
>
> With regards to hyperbolic geometry models, I've played with a few of
> these in MagicTile, but I haven't yet made the controls work for them. I
> just uploaded a couple pictures... some puzzles in the Klein model, and o=
ne
> pasted on the pseudosphere .
> The Klein model may become my favorite view when solving puzzles. It ha=
s
> a very spherical feel to it, due to circles getting squashed towards the
> edges, and magnifies pieces near the center. I don't think the
> pseudosphere ends up being a very workable view, since you can't show a
> large percentage of the hyperbolic plane on it at once.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/photos/album/1694853720/pic/list
>
> seeya,
> Roice
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 4:38 PM, schuma wrote:
>
>> Sorry for not noticing the middle mouse drag function.
>>
>> In Don's applet I don't know how to change to another motion model.
>> Poincare model/Klein model behave in the same way. I'm not surprised by
>> anti-procession because rolling a ball is anti-procession. Since sphere =
and
>> hyperbolic plane are opposite, it's natural to see procession in the
>> hyperbolic plane. But I don't know how to see anti-procession in hyperbo=
lic.
>>
>> Nan
>>
>> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Roice Nelson wrote:
>> >
>> > Middle-mouse drag will do a rotation for you (or on a laptop, left+rig=
ht
>> > drag at the same time).
>> >
>> > I find the noncommutative panning in spherical/hyperbolic spaces reall=
y
>> > neat too (doesn't happen for Euclidean space, so middle-mouse control =
is
>> > required there). The code for Don's hyperbolic tesselations
>> > appletwas super helpful
>> > in understanding and implementing this. Internally, you
>> > can see he played with a few different motion models, some of which
>> > anti-precess rather than precess! That is, dragging clockwise results
>> in a
>> > counterclockwise rotation of the space. I found that I liked the one =
he
>> > settled on for his applet the best too, though it'd be nice to add in
>> some
>> > of the others as an option.
>> >
>> > seeya,
>> > Roice
>>
>=20=20
>

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Hi Roice,

Hi,

I've just solved the edge-turning {3,7}. It took me about 15 hours, and 140=
10 moves. I think this is my longest solve without macros.=20

I switch colors a lot to find pieces. Whenever I work on a face, I set its =
color to white. I think this piece finding strategy works well.=20

I've also solved VT {3,7} more than a week ago. Naturally the FT {3,7} is t=
he next one to solve. But it looks too scary for me now.

The save files can be found here:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/files/Nan%20Ma/37ET_solved.xm=
l

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/files/Nan%20Ma/37VT_solved.xm=
l

Nan

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That's great Nan :D

Please know I am planning to implement macros shortly (I want to have them
available within the next month). This should hopefully make the FT puzzle
a little more tractable.

Best,
Roice


On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 3:29 PM, schuma wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I've just solved the edge-turning {3,7}. It took me about 15 hours, and
> 14010 moves. I think this is my longest solve without macros.
>
> I switch colors a lot to find pieces. Whenever I work on a face, I set its
> color to white. I think this piece finding strategy works well.
>
> I've also solved VT {3,7} more than a week ago. Naturally the FT {3,7} is
> the next one to solve. But it looks too scary for me now.
>
> The save files can be found here:
>
>
> http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/files/Nan%20Ma/37ET_solved.xml
>
>
> http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/files/Nan%20Ma/37VT_solved.xml
>
> Nan

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That's great Nan :D