Thread: "MPUlt v0.2 is ready"

Thanks for the hint.
What about opening a new chapter "MPUltr" in Wiki?

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Matthew Galla wrote:
>
> Andrey,
>=20
> This is quite an amazing program! I have not had enough time to do a seri=
ous
> attempt of any of the puzzles but all the 4D ones look great! I'm a littl=
e
> confused by your rendering of the 5D and 6D puzzles but I will get to tho=
se
> later :)
>=20
> As I have previously indicated, I am most excited by the cell-turning
> 24Cell! I already have my solve order and algorithms figured out for the
> whole puzzle and I will hopefully be able to attempt a solve by this comi=
ng
> weekend. I have a few comments:
>=20
> -There are multiple pieces in the 24 Cell that are not unique. This is GO=
OD
> (and arguably more correct than not) and I am happy to have this version,
> but my concern is that the program may not recognize a state as solved if
> two identical pieces are flipped. Have you accounted for this? (I don't w=
ant
> to finish a solve only to have the program say I'm not done ;) )
>=20
> -Would it be possible to add a piece/location finding feature? I see you
> have the shift-right click "highlighting" feature and that is certainly a
> good way to identify pieces but it's a little awkward to use. A suggestio=
n
> to improve it a little is to allow shift-right click on a color that is
> already white to undo the white coloring. (This way, you could hover over=
a
> single spot and quickly flash back and forth as you look over the rest of
> the puzzle, allowing you to very easily see which pieces belong in that f=
ace
> by spotting the flashing)
>=20
> -Is there a way to zoom in and out? I notice that the "View Angle" slider
> bar seems to achieve this, but it is a little awkward to constantly go to
> the slider bar. Could this be assigned to either a Ctrl-click+drag or
> perhaps the mouse wheel?
>=20
> -Could you add a feature that allows for an automatic view orientation to
> put a selected cell in the center (like Magic120Cell). I wouldn't even mi=
nd
> if there was no animation for this, but I find it very awkward to manipul=
ate
> the puzzle with right-click+drag.
>=20
> -the deepcut 24 Cell puzzle isn't deepcut ;)
>=20
> -you have a puzzle under CubeBased called 4D_RT: This puzzle is actually
> quite neat, and I can't believe I didn't think of it before. Congratulati=
ons
> on not letting this puzzle slip by unnoticed as I did. Two questions: 1.W=
hat
> does the 'R' in 4D_RT mean? (assuming the 'T' means turning) 2.Could you
> make the 24 and 16 cell equivalents? :D I can draw a picture of a cell if
> you need it, but you seem to be quite good at figuring them out yourself =
so
> I won't insult your intelligence with that :) (they would have a pretty
> crowded view wouldn't they? Perhaps it is too much... :( )
>=20
> - (idea/suggestion) It is actually possible to make a subgroup puzzle of =
the
> cell-turning 24cell puzzle BY ONLY ALLOWING 120 DEGREE FACE TURNS AND 180
> DEGREE CORNER TURNS. No 90 degree corner turns and no edge turns of any
> kind. Among other things, this will divide the 96 2C central face pieces
> into 3 orbits of 32 each. This puzzle would be completely different from =
and
> most likely significantly harder than the standard cell-turning 24Cell. I=
t
> occurred to me that it would probably pretty easy to implement if you
> already have a working cell-turning 24Cell so you can add one more puzzle=
to
> the list :) I think you can also do a similar thing with cell turning 8ce=
lls
> (rotations around corners and 180 degree rotations around faces ONLY) and
> cell turning 16-cells (edge turns ONLY). In fact, you could probably even
> make one of these "subgroup" puzzles from that interesting 4D_RT puzzle
> (which thinking about it really should be called face-turning while all t=
he
> other puzzle should be called cell-turning). If you picture the moving pa=
rts
> of the puzzle as flattened rectangular prisms, only 180 degree rotations
> about any axis perpendicular to a face are allowed (as is 2 axes are alre=
ady
> restricted to 180 degrees, but to make this subgroup puzzle you would hav=
e
> to restrict the third as well)
>=20
>=20
> The complaints/concerns/(suggestions) listed here are only minor, and I
> believe the functionality of it is good enough to support a solve as is.
> This weekend! :)
>=20
> Overall a very nice program!!!!!! I agree with schuma, the version number
> definitely deserves to be higher
>=20
> Ed: The "save as" and "open" features are working my fine but you have to
> play with the camera controls after opening a file. Use "open" and then
> adjust the "Face Shrink" bar and your saved puzzle will magically appear
> from nowhere! ;)
>=20
> -Matt Galla
>=20
>=20
> On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Eduard wrote:
>=20
> >
> >
> > Wow!
> > All is perfect!
> > Even "save" and "save as" are working.
> > Restarting the program opens the "saved" puzzle.
> > How do I reach a "saved as" puzzle? I tried without succes with "open".
> > Ed
> >
> >
> > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Andrey" wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > > Next version of "MPUltimate" is uploaded to
> > http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/files/MC7D/MPUlt.zip .
> > > What is new:
> > > 1) bug with click to the mirrored face is fixed;
> > > 2) couple of search features is there:
> > > 2a) Shift-Left click in the sticker highlights all stickers of the sa=
me
> > piece (now it doesn't work for stickers of the puzzle core and for stic=
kers
> > that are connected "inside" the puzzle). Highligting is moving with the
> > sticker during twists and macro applications (only in cell-turn 4D puzz=
les
> > :( ) and I've found it very useful for macros design.
> > > 2b) Shift-Right click in the sticker temporary (till next
> > Shift-Right)changes color of this sticker and all stickers from its cel=
l to
> > white. Shift-Right in empty space restores colors of all cells.
> > > 3) Single-click macros for 4D are ready. To create macro you should
> > Ctrl-Alt-Left click a point in some cell. Better to select a point clos=
e to
> > the vertex - cell, face and vertex will be used as reference for macro
> > application. To finish macro definition press Ctrl-M and enter macro na=
me.
> > > To perform macro select it in the listbox, and then Alt-Left Click or
> > Alt-Right Click a point in some cell (cell should be of the same kind a=
s in
> > macro definition). Program finds the best match to the reference point =
and
> > perfroms macro (left click for the straight order and right click for
> > reverse).
> > > 4) All puzzle definitions are collected in one file MPUlt_puzzles.txt=
.
> > There is also some puzzles grouping in this file that is reflected in t=
he
> > Puzzle menu.
> > >
> > > Known bugs and missing features:
> > > - Twist counter doesn't work;
> > > - Track bar position for view angle is not synchronized with the actu=
al
> > value in start
> > > - Check boxes for selection of visible stickers don't work
> > > - No macros for 5D and more
> > > - Highlighting of the piece is vanishing after multiclick twist
> > (not-cell-twist or 5D and more).
> > > - Help text doesn't fit actual functioning
> > >
> > > For the debugging I'll use 24-cell. So, good luck!
> > > Andrey
> > >
> >
> >=20=20
> >
>

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi Matt,

I believe RT stands for "ridge turning" (see this
postfrom
Don). It is a nicer term than "face", which can require a lot of
context to avoid ambiguity since it is overused. I think it would be
beneficial to update the 3^4 solution to use the term "ridge", to help
encourage us to lower our overloading of the meaning of "face".

Cheers,
Roice


On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 2:22 AM, Matthew Galla wrote:

>
>
> Andrey,
>
> This is quite an amazing program! I have not had enough time to do a
> serious attempt of any of the puzzles but all the 4D ones look great! I'm a
> little confused by your rendering of the 5D and 6D puzzles but I will get to
> those later :)
>
> As I have previously indicated, I am most excited by the cell-turning
> 24Cell! I already have my solve order and algorithms figured out for the
> whole puzzle and I will hopefully be able to attempt a solve by this coming
> weekend. I have a few comments:
>
> -There are multiple pieces in the 24 Cell that are not unique. This is GOOD
> (and arguably more correct than not) and I am happy to have this version,
> but my concern is that the program may not recognize a state as solved if
> two identical pieces are flipped. Have you accounted for this? (I don't want
> to finish a solve only to have the program say I'm not done ;) )
>
> -Would it be possible to add a piece/location finding feature? I see you
> have the shift-right click "highlighting" feature and that is certainly a
> good way to identify pieces but it's a little awkward to use. A suggestion
> to improve it a little is to allow shift-right click on a color that is
> already white to undo the white coloring. (This way, you could hover over a
> single spot and quickly flash back and forth as you look over the rest of
> the puzzle, allowing you to very easily see which pieces belong in that face
> by spotting the flashing)
>
> -Is there a way to zoom in and out? I notice that the "View Angle" slider
> bar seems to achieve this, but it is a little awkward to constantly go to
> the slider bar. Could this be assigned to either a Ctrl-click+drag or
> perhaps the mouse wheel?
>
> -Could you add a feature that allows for an automatic view orientation to
> put a selected cell in the center (like Magic120Cell). I wouldn't even mind
> if there was no animation for this, but I find it very awkward to manipulate
> the puzzle with right-click+drag.
>
> -the deepcut 24 Cell puzzle isn't deepcut ;)
>
> -you have a puzzle under CubeBased called 4D_RT: This puzzle is actually
> quite neat, and I can't believe I didn't think of it before. Congratulations
> on not letting this puzzle slip by unnoticed as I did. Two questions: 1.What
> does the 'R' in 4D_RT mean? (assuming the 'T' means turning) 2.Could you
> make the 24 and 16 cell equivalents? :D I can draw a picture of a cell if
> you need it, but you seem to be quite good at figuring them out yourself so
> I won't insult your intelligence with that :) (they would have a pretty
> crowded view wouldn't they? Perhaps it is too much... :( )
>
> - (idea/suggestion) It is actually possible to make a subgroup puzzle of
> the cell-turning 24cell puzzle BY ONLY ALLOWING 120 DEGREE FACE TURNS AND
> 180 DEGREE CORNER TURNS. No 90 degree corner turns and no edge turns of any
> kind. Among other things, this will divide the 96 2C central face pieces
> into 3 orbits of 32 each. This puzzle would be completely different from and
> most likely significantly harder than the standard cell-turning 24Cell. It
> occurred to me that it would probably pretty easy to implement if you
> already have a working cell-turning 24Cell so you can add one more puzzle to
> the list :) I think you can also do a similar thing with cell turning 8cells
> (rotations around corners and 180 degree rotations around faces ONLY) and
> cell turning 16-cells (edge turns ONLY). In fact, you could probably even
> make one of these "subgroup" puzzles from that interesting 4D_RT puzzle
> (which thinking about it really should be called face-turning while all the
> other puzzle should be called cell-turning). If you picture the moving parts
> of the puzzle as flattened rectangular prisms, only 180 degree rotations
> about any axis perpendicular to a face are allowed (as is 2 axes are already
> restricted to 180 degrees, but to make this subgroup puzzle you would have
> to restrict the third as well)
>
>
> The complaints/concerns/(suggestions) listed here are only minor, and I
> believe the functionality of it is good enough to support a solve as is.
> This weekend! :)
>
> Overall a very nice program!!!!!! I agree with schuma, the version number
> definitely deserves to be higher
>
> Ed: The "save as" and "open" features are working my fine but you have to
> play with the camera controls after opening a file. Use "open" and then
> adjust the "Face Shrink" bar and your saved puzzle will magically appear
> from nowhere! ;)
>
> -Matt Galla
>
>
> On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Eduard wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Wow!
>> All is perfect!
>> Even "save" and "save as" are working.
>> Restarting the program opens the "saved" puzzle.
>> How do I reach a "saved as" puzzle? I tried without succes with "open".
>> Ed
>>
>>
>> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Andrey" wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> > Next version of "MPUltimate" is uploaded to
>> http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/files/MC7D/MPUlt.zip .
>> > What is new:
>> > 1) bug with click to the mirrored face is fixed;
>> > 2) couple of search features is there:
>> > 2a) Shift-Left click in the sticker highlights all stickers of the same
>> piece (now it doesn't work for stickers of the puzzle core and for stickers
>> that are connected "inside" the puzzle). Highligting is moving with the
>> sticker during twists and macro applications (only in cell-turn 4D puzzles
>> :( ) and I've found it very useful for macros design.
>> > 2b) Shift-Right click in the sticker temporary (till next
>> Shift-Right)changes color of this sticker and all stickers from its cell to
>> white. Shift-Right in empty space restores colors of all cells.
>> > 3) Single-click macros for 4D are ready. To create macro you should
>> Ctrl-Alt-Left click a point in some cell. Better to select a point close to
>> the vertex - cell, face and vertex will be used as reference for macro
>> application. To finish macro definition press Ctrl-M and enter macro name.
>> > To perform macro select it in the listbox, and then Alt-Left Click or
>> Alt-Right Click a point in some cell (cell should be of the same kind as in
>> macro definition). Program finds the best match to the reference point and
>> perfroms macro (left click for the straight order and right click for
>> reverse).
>> > 4) All puzzle definitions are collected in one file MPUlt_puzzles.txt.
>> There is also some puzzles grouping in this file that is reflected in the
>> Puzzle menu.
>> >
>> > Known bugs and missing features:
>> > - Twist counter doesn't work;
>> > - Track bar position for view angle is not synchronized with the actual
>> value in start
>> > - Check boxes for selection of visible stickers don't work
>> > - No macros for 5D and more
>> > - Highlighting of the piece is vanishing after multiclick twist
>> (not-cell-twist or 5D and more).
>> > - Help text doesn't fit actual functioning
>> >
>> > For the debugging I'll use 24-cell. So, good luck!
>> > Andrey
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>

--00032555aa562b9c5e04a2eddce0
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Matt,

I tried (in previous version?) "To create macro you should Ctrl-Alt-Left cl=
ick a point in some cell." and it worked. I have macro-files.
Now it is not working any more.
I cannot create a macro any more. Why?
Ed

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Roice Nelson wrote:
>
> Hi Matt,
>=20
> I believe RT stands for "ridge turning" (see this
> postfrom
> Don). It is a nicer term than "face", which can require a lot of
> context to avoid ambiguity since it is overused. I think it would be
> beneficial to update the 3^4 solution to use the term "ridge", to help
> encourage us to lower our overloading of the meaning of "face".
>=20
> Cheers,
> Roice
>=20
>=20
> On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 2:22 AM, Matthew Galla wrote:
>=20
> >
> >
> > Andrey,
> >
> > This is quite an amazing program! I have not had enough time to do a
> > serious attempt of any of the puzzles but all the 4D ones look great! I=
'm a
> > little confused by your rendering of the 5D and 6D puzzles but I will g=
et to
> > those later :)
> >
> > As I have previously indicated, I am most excited by the cell-turning
> > 24Cell! I already have my solve order and algorithms figured out for th=
e
> > whole puzzle and I will hopefully be able to attempt a solve by this co=
ming
> > weekend. I have a few comments:
> >
> > -There are multiple pieces in the 24 Cell that are not unique. This is =
GOOD
> > (and arguably more correct than not) and I am happy to have this versio=
n,
> > but my concern is that the program may not recognize a state as solved =
if
> > two identical pieces are flipped. Have you accounted for this? (I don't=
want
> > to finish a solve only to have the program say I'm not done ;) )
> >
> > -Would it be possible to add a piece/location finding feature? I see yo=
u
> > have the shift-right click "highlighting" feature and that is certainly=
a
> > good way to identify pieces but it's a little awkward to use. A suggest=
ion
> > to improve it a little is to allow shift-right click on a color that is
> > already white to undo the white coloring. (This way, you could hover ov=
er a
> > single spot and quickly flash back and forth as you look over the rest =
of
> > the puzzle, allowing you to very easily see which pieces belong in that=
face
> > by spotting the flashing)
> >
> > -Is there a way to zoom in and out? I notice that the "View Angle" slid=
er
> > bar seems to achieve this, but it is a little awkward to constantly go =
to
> > the slider bar. Could this be assigned to either a Ctrl-click+drag or
> > perhaps the mouse wheel?
> >
> > -Could you add a feature that allows for an automatic view orientation =
to
> > put a selected cell in the center (like Magic120Cell). I wouldn't even =
mind
> > if there was no animation for this, but I find it very awkward to manip=
ulate
> > the puzzle with right-click+drag.
> >
> > -the deepcut 24 Cell puzzle isn't deepcut ;)
> >
> > -you have a puzzle under CubeBased called 4D_RT: This puzzle is actuall=
y
> > quite neat, and I can't believe I didn't think of it before. Congratula=
tions
> > on not letting this puzzle slip by unnoticed as I did. Two questions: 1=
.What
> > does the 'R' in 4D_RT mean? (assuming the 'T' means turning) 2.Could yo=
u
> > make the 24 and 16 cell equivalents? :D I can draw a picture of a cell =
if
> > you need it, but you seem to be quite good at figuring them out yoursel=
f so
> > I won't insult your intelligence with that :) (they would have a pretty
> > crowded view wouldn't they? Perhaps it is too much... :( )
> >
> > - (idea/suggestion) It is actually possible to make a subgroup puzzle o=
f
> > the cell-turning 24cell puzzle BY ONLY ALLOWING 120 DEGREE FACE TURNS A=
ND
> > 180 DEGREE CORNER TURNS. No 90 degree corner turns and no edge turns of=
any
> > kind. Among other things, this will divide the 96 2C central face piece=
s
> > into 3 orbits of 32 each. This puzzle would be completely different fro=
m and
> > most likely significantly harder than the standard cell-turning 24Cell.=
It
> > occurred to me that it would probably pretty easy to implement if you
> > already have a working cell-turning 24Cell so you can add one more puzz=
le to
> > the list :) I think you can also do a similar thing with cell turning 8=
cells
> > (rotations around corners and 180 degree rotations around faces ONLY) a=
nd
> > cell turning 16-cells (edge turns ONLY). In fact, you could probably ev=
en
> > make one of these "subgroup" puzzles from that interesting 4D_RT puzzle
> > (which thinking about it really should be called face-turning while all=
the
> > other puzzle should be called cell-turning). If you picture the moving =
parts
> > of the puzzle as flattened rectangular prisms, only 180 degree rotation=
s
> > about any axis perpendicular to a face are allowed (as is 2 axes are al=
ready
> > restricted to 180 degrees, but to make this subgroup puzzle you would h=
ave
> > to restrict the third as well)
> >
> >
> > The complaints/concerns/(suggestions) listed here are only minor, and I
> > believe the functionality of it is good enough to support a solve as is=
.
> > This weekend! :)
> >
> > Overall a very nice program!!!!!! I agree with schuma, the version numb=
er
> > definitely deserves to be higher
> >
> > Ed: The "save as" and "open" features are working my fine but you have =
to
> > play with the camera controls after opening a file. Use "open" and then
> > adjust the "Face Shrink" bar and your saved puzzle will magically appea=
r
> > from nowhere! ;)
> >
> > -Matt Galla
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Eduard wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Wow!
> >> All is perfect!
> >> Even "save" and "save as" are working.
> >> Restarting the program opens the "saved" puzzle.
> >> How do I reach a "saved as" puzzle? I tried without succes with "open"=
.
> >> Ed
> >>
> >>
> >> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Andrey" wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi all,
> >> > Next version of "MPUltimate" is uploaded to
> >> http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/files/MC7D/MPUlt.zip .
> >> > What is new:
> >> > 1) bug with click to the mirrored face is fixed;
> >> > 2) couple of search features is there:
> >> > 2a) Shift-Left click in the sticker highlights all stickers of the s=
ame
> >> piece (now it doesn't work for stickers of the puzzle core and for sti=
ckers
> >> that are connected "inside" the puzzle). Highligting is moving with th=
e
> >> sticker during twists and macro applications (only in cell-turn 4D puz=
zles
> >> :( ) and I've found it very useful for macros design.
> >> > 2b) Shift-Right click in the sticker temporary (till next
> >> Shift-Right)changes color of this sticker and all stickers from its ce=
ll to
> >> white. Shift-Right in empty space restores colors of all cells.
> >> > 3) Single-click macros for 4D are ready. To create macro you should
> >> Ctrl-Alt-Left click a point in some cell. Better to select a point clo=
se to
> >> the vertex - cell, face and vertex will be used as reference for macro
> >> application. To finish macro definition press Ctrl-M and enter macro n=
ame.
> >> > To perform macro select it in the listbox, and then Alt-Left Click o=
r
> >> Alt-Right Click a point in some cell (cell should be of the same kind =
as in
> >> macro definition). Program finds the best match to the reference point=
and
> >> perfroms macro (left click for the straight order and right click for
> >> reverse).
> >> > 4) All puzzle definitions are collected in one file MPUlt_puzzles.tx=
t.
> >> There is also some puzzles grouping in this file that is reflected in =
the
> >> Puzzle menu.
> >> >
> >> > Known bugs and missing features:
> >> > - Twist counter doesn't work;
> >> > - Track bar position for view angle is not synchronized with the act=
ual
> >> value in start
> >> > - Check boxes for selection of visible stickers don't work
> >> > - No macros for 5D and more
> >> > - Highlighting of the piece is vanishing after multiclick twist
> >> (not-cell-twist or 5D and more).
> >> > - Help text doesn't fit actual functioning
> >> >
> >> > For the debugging I'll use 24-cell. So, good luck!
> >> > Andrey
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>

Forget my question. I was confused. All is okay.

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" wrote:
>
> I tried (in previous version?) "To create macro you should Ctrl-Alt-Left =
click a point in some cell." and it worked. I have macro-files.
> Now it is not working any more.
> I cannot create a macro any more. Why?
> Ed
>=20
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Roice Nelson wrote:
> >
> > Hi Matt,
> >=20
> > I believe RT stands for "ridge turning" (see this
> > postfrom
> > Don). It is a nicer term than "face", which can require a lot of
> > context to avoid ambiguity since it is overused. I think it would be
> > beneficial to update the 3^4 solution to use the term "ridge", to help
> > encourage us to lower our overloading of the meaning of "face".
> >=20
> > Cheers,
> > Roice
> >=20
> >=20
> > On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 2:22 AM, Matthew Galla wrote:
> >=20
> > >
> > >
> > > Andrey,
> > >
> > > This is quite an amazing program! I have not had enough time to do a
> > > serious attempt of any of the puzzles but all the 4D ones look great!=
I'm a
> > > little confused by your rendering of the 5D and 6D puzzles but I will=
get to
> > > those later :)
> > >
> > > As I have previously indicated, I am most excited by the cell-turning
> > > 24Cell! I already have my solve order and algorithms figured out for =
the
> > > whole puzzle and I will hopefully be able to attempt a solve by this =
coming
> > > weekend. I have a few comments:
> > >
> > > -There are multiple pieces in the 24 Cell that are not unique. This i=
s GOOD
> > > (and arguably more correct than not) and I am happy to have this vers=
ion,
> > > but my concern is that the program may not recognize a state as solve=
d if
> > > two identical pieces are flipped. Have you accounted for this? (I don=
't want
> > > to finish a solve only to have the program say I'm not done ;) )
> > >
> > > -Would it be possible to add a piece/location finding feature? I see =
you
> > > have the shift-right click "highlighting" feature and that is certain=
ly a
> > > good way to identify pieces but it's a little awkward to use. A sugge=
stion
> > > to improve it a little is to allow shift-right click on a color that =
is
> > > already white to undo the white coloring. (This way, you could hover =
over a
> > > single spot and quickly flash back and forth as you look over the res=
t of
> > > the puzzle, allowing you to very easily see which pieces belong in th=
at face
> > > by spotting the flashing)
> > >
> > > -Is there a way to zoom in and out? I notice that the "View Angle" sl=
ider
> > > bar seems to achieve this, but it is a little awkward to constantly g=
o to
> > > the slider bar. Could this be assigned to either a Ctrl-click+drag or
> > > perhaps the mouse wheel?
> > >
> > > -Could you add a feature that allows for an automatic view orientatio=
n to
> > > put a selected cell in the center (like Magic120Cell). I wouldn't eve=
n mind
> > > if there was no animation for this, but I find it very awkward to man=
ipulate
> > > the puzzle with right-click+drag.
> > >
> > > -the deepcut 24 Cell puzzle isn't deepcut ;)
> > >
> > > -you have a puzzle under CubeBased called 4D_RT: This puzzle is actua=
lly
> > > quite neat, and I can't believe I didn't think of it before. Congratu=
lations
> > > on not letting this puzzle slip by unnoticed as I did. Two questions:=
1.What
> > > does the 'R' in 4D_RT mean? (assuming the 'T' means turning) 2.Could =
you
> > > make the 24 and 16 cell equivalents? :D I can draw a picture of a cel=
l if
> > > you need it, but you seem to be quite good at figuring them out yours=
elf so
> > > I won't insult your intelligence with that :) (they would have a pret=
ty
> > > crowded view wouldn't they? Perhaps it is too much... :( )
> > >
> > > - (idea/suggestion) It is actually possible to make a subgroup puzzle=
of
> > > the cell-turning 24cell puzzle BY ONLY ALLOWING 120 DEGREE FACE TURNS=
AND
> > > 180 DEGREE CORNER TURNS. No 90 degree corner turns and no edge turns =
of any
> > > kind. Among other things, this will divide the 96 2C central face pie=
ces
> > > into 3 orbits of 32 each. This puzzle would be completely different f=
rom and
> > > most likely significantly harder than the standard cell-turning 24Cel=
l. It
> > > occurred to me that it would probably pretty easy to implement if you
> > > already have a working cell-turning 24Cell so you can add one more pu=
zzle to
> > > the list :) I think you can also do a similar thing with cell turning=
8cells
> > > (rotations around corners and 180 degree rotations around faces ONLY)=
and
> > > cell turning 16-cells (edge turns ONLY). In fact, you could probably =
even
> > > make one of these "subgroup" puzzles from that interesting 4D_RT puzz=
le
> > > (which thinking about it really should be called face-turning while a=
ll the
> > > other puzzle should be called cell-turning). If you picture the movin=
g parts
> > > of the puzzle as flattened rectangular prisms, only 180 degree rotati=
ons
> > > about any axis perpendicular to a face are allowed (as is 2 axes are =
already
> > > restricted to 180 degrees, but to make this subgroup puzzle you would=
have
> > > to restrict the third as well)
> > >
> > >
> > > The complaints/concerns/(suggestions) listed here are only minor, and=
I
> > > believe the functionality of it is good enough to support a solve as =
is.
> > > This weekend! :)
> > >
> > > Overall a very nice program!!!!!! I agree with schuma, the version nu=
mber
> > > definitely deserves to be higher
> > >
> > > Ed: The "save as" and "open" features are working my fine but you hav=
e to
> > > play with the camera controls after opening a file. Use "open" and th=
en
> > > adjust the "Face Shrink" bar and your saved puzzle will magically app=
ear
> > > from nowhere! ;)
> > >
> > > -Matt Galla
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Eduard wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Wow!
> > >> All is perfect!
> > >> Even "save" and "save as" are working.
> > >> Restarting the program opens the "saved" puzzle.
> > >> How do I reach a "saved as" puzzle? I tried without succes with "ope=
n".
> > >> Ed
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Andrey" wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > Hi all,
> > >> > Next version of "MPUltimate" is uploaded to
> > >> http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/files/MC7D/MPUlt.zip .
> > >> > What is new:
> > >> > 1) bug with click to the mirrored face is fixed;
> > >> > 2) couple of search features is there:
> > >> > 2a) Shift-Left click in the sticker highlights all stickers of the=
same
> > >> piece (now it doesn't work for stickers of the puzzle core and for s=
tickers
> > >> that are connected "inside" the puzzle). Highligting is moving with =
the
> > >> sticker during twists and macro applications (only in cell-turn 4D p=
uzzles
> > >> :( ) and I've found it very useful for macros design.
> > >> > 2b) Shift-Right click in the sticker temporary (till next
> > >> Shift-Right)changes color of this sticker and all stickers from its =
cell to
> > >> white. Shift-Right in empty space restores colors of all cells.
> > >> > 3) Single-click macros for 4D are ready. To create macro you shoul=
d
> > >> Ctrl-Alt-Left click a point in some cell. Better to select a point c=
lose to
> > >> the vertex - cell, face and vertex will be used as reference for mac=
ro
> > >> application. To finish macro definition press Ctrl-M and enter macro=
name.
> > >> > To perform macro select it in the listbox, and then Alt-Left Click=
or
> > >> Alt-Right Click a point in some cell (cell should be of the same kin=
d as in
> > >> macro definition). Program finds the best match to the reference poi=
nt and
> > >> perfroms macro (left click for the straight order and right click fo=
r
> > >> reverse).
> > >> > 4) All puzzle definitions are collected in one file MPUlt_puzzles.=
txt.
> > >> There is also some puzzles grouping in this file that is reflected i=
n the
> > >> Puzzle menu.
> > >> >
> > >> > Known bugs and missing features:
> > >> > - Twist counter doesn't work;
> > >> > - Track bar position for view angle is not synchronized with the a=
ctual
> > >> value in start
> > >> > - Check boxes for selection of visible stickers don't work
> > >> > - No macros for 5D and more
> > >> > - Highlighting of the piece is vanishing after multiclick twist
> > >> (not-cell-twist or 5D and more).
> > >> > - Help text doesn't fit actual functioning
> > >> >
> > >> > For the debugging I'll use 24-cell. So, good luck!
> > >> > Andrey
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Andrey,

I looked at 4D_RT and 4D_ET just now. I think they are really neat and nice=
puzzles. I am wondering why we need three click rotations for them. It see=
ms to me that there's no ambiguity if one click determines the move. Is it =
true? Thanks.

Nan

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Matthew Galla wrote:
>
> Andrey,
>=20
> This is quite an amazing program! I have not had enough time to do a seri=
ous
> attempt of any of the puzzles but all the 4D ones look great! I'm a littl=
e
> confused by your rendering of the 5D and 6D puzzles but I will get to tho=
se
> later :)
>=20
> As I have previously indicated, I am most excited by the cell-turning
> 24Cell! I already have my solve order and algorithms figured out for the
> whole puzzle and I will hopefully be able to attempt a solve by this comi=
ng
> weekend. I have a few comments:
>=20
> -There are multiple pieces in the 24 Cell that are not unique. This is GO=
OD
> (and arguably more correct than not) and I am happy to have this version,
> but my concern is that the program may not recognize a state as solved if
> two identical pieces are flipped. Have you accounted for this? (I don't w=
ant
> to finish a solve only to have the program say I'm not done ;) )
>=20
> -Would it be possible to add a piece/location finding feature? I see you
> have the shift-right click "highlighting" feature and that is certainly a
> good way to identify pieces but it's a little awkward to use. A suggestio=
n
> to improve it a little is to allow shift-right click on a color that is
> already white to undo the white coloring. (This way, you could hover over=
a
> single spot and quickly flash back and forth as you look over the rest of
> the puzzle, allowing you to very easily see which pieces belong in that f=
ace
> by spotting the flashing)
>=20
> -Is there a way to zoom in and out? I notice that the "View Angle" slider
> bar seems to achieve this, but it is a little awkward to constantly go to
> the slider bar. Could this be assigned to either a Ctrl-click+drag or
> perhaps the mouse wheel?
>=20
> -Could you add a feature that allows for an automatic view orientation to
> put a selected cell in the center (like Magic120Cell). I wouldn't even mi=
nd
> if there was no animation for this, but I find it very awkward to manipul=
ate
> the puzzle with right-click+drag.
>=20
> -the deepcut 24 Cell puzzle isn't deepcut ;)
>=20
> -you have a puzzle under CubeBased called 4D_RT: This puzzle is actually
> quite neat, and I can't believe I didn't think of it before. Congratulati=
ons
> on not letting this puzzle slip by unnoticed as I did. Two questions: 1.W=
hat
> does the 'R' in 4D_RT mean? (assuming the 'T' means turning) 2.Could you
> make the 24 and 16 cell equivalents? :D I can draw a picture of a cell if
> you need it, but you seem to be quite good at figuring them out yourself =
so
> I won't insult your intelligence with that :) (they would have a pretty
> crowded view wouldn't they? Perhaps it is too much... :( )
>=20
> - (idea/suggestion) It is actually possible to make a subgroup puzzle of =
the
> cell-turning 24cell puzzle BY ONLY ALLOWING 120 DEGREE FACE TURNS AND 180
> DEGREE CORNER TURNS. No 90 degree corner turns and no edge turns of any
> kind. Among other things, this will divide the 96 2C central face pieces
> into 3 orbits of 32 each. This puzzle would be completely different from =
and
> most likely significantly harder than the standard cell-turning 24Cell. I=
t
> occurred to me that it would probably pretty easy to implement if you
> already have a working cell-turning 24Cell so you can add one more puzzle=
to
> the list :) I think you can also do a similar thing with cell turning 8ce=
lls
> (rotations around corners and 180 degree rotations around faces ONLY) and
> cell turning 16-cells (edge turns ONLY). In fact, you could probably even
> make one of these "subgroup" puzzles from that interesting 4D_RT puzzle
> (which thinking about it really should be called face-turning while all t=
he
> other puzzle should be called cell-turning). If you picture the moving pa=
rts
> of the puzzle as flattened rectangular prisms, only 180 degree rotations
> about any axis perpendicular to a face are allowed (as is 2 axes are alre=
ady
> restricted to 180 degrees, but to make this subgroup puzzle you would hav=
e
> to restrict the third as well)
>=20
>=20
> The complaints/concerns/(suggestions) listed here are only minor, and I
> believe the functionality of it is good enough to support a solve as is.
> This weekend! :)
>=20
> Overall a very nice program!!!!!! I agree with schuma, the version number
> definitely deserves to be higher
>=20
> Ed: The "save as" and "open" features are working my fine but you have to
> play with the camera controls after opening a file. Use "open" and then
> adjust the "Face Shrink" bar and your saved puzzle will magically appear
> from nowhere! ;)
>=20
> -Matt Galla
>=20
>=20
> On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Eduard wrote:
>=20
> >
> >
> > Wow!
> > All is perfect!
> > Even "save" and "save as" are working.
> > Restarting the program opens the "saved" puzzle.
> > How do I reach a "saved as" puzzle? I tried without succes with "open".
> > Ed
> >
> >
> > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Andrey" wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > > Next version of "MPUltimate" is uploaded to
> > http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/files/MC7D/MPUlt.zip .
> > > What is new:
> > > 1) bug with click to the mirrored face is fixed;
> > > 2) couple of search features is there:
> > > 2a) Shift-Left click in the sticker highlights all stickers of the sa=
me
> > piece (now it doesn't work for stickers of the puzzle core and for stic=
kers
> > that are connected "inside" the puzzle). Highligting is moving with the
> > sticker during twists and macro applications (only in cell-turn 4D puzz=
les
> > :( ) and I've found it very useful for macros design.
> > > 2b) Shift-Right click in the sticker temporary (till next
> > Shift-Right)changes color of this sticker and all stickers from its cel=
l to
> > white. Shift-Right in empty space restores colors of all cells.
> > > 3) Single-click macros for 4D are ready. To create macro you should
> > Ctrl-Alt-Left click a point in some cell. Better to select a point clos=
e to
> > the vertex - cell, face and vertex will be used as reference for macro
> > application. To finish macro definition press Ctrl-M and enter macro na=
me.
> > > To perform macro select it in the listbox, and then Alt-Left Click or
> > Alt-Right Click a point in some cell (cell should be of the same kind a=
s in
> > macro definition). Program finds the best match to the reference point =
and
> > perfroms macro (left click for the straight order and right click for
> > reverse).
> > > 4) All puzzle definitions are collected in one file MPUlt_puzzles.txt=
.
> > There is also some puzzles grouping in this file that is reflected in t=
he
> > Puzzle menu.
> > >
> > > Known bugs and missing features:
> > > - Twist counter doesn't work;
> > > - Track bar position for view angle is not synchronized with the actu=
al
> > value in start
> > > - Check boxes for selection of visible stickers don't work
> > > - No macros for 5D and more
> > > - Highlighting of the piece is vanishing after multiclick twist
> > (not-cell-twist or 5D and more).
> > > - Help text doesn't fit actual functioning
> > >
> > > For the debugging I'll use 24-cell. So, good luck!
> > > Andrey
> > >
> >
> >=20=20
> >
>

Nan,
May be there is no ambiguity. But I don't see common algorithm that finds=
best twist for single click when the twist is not cell-centered. Program d=
oesn't know the type of the axis - is knows only that it's not passes throu=
gh cell center. And I couldn't find best axis and twist for all situations =
- so I implemented "stickers chain"-based interface for them.=20

Andrey

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "schuma" wrote:
>
> Andrey,
>=20
> I looked at 4D_RT and 4D_ET just now. I think they are really neat and ni=
ce puzzles. I am wondering why we need three click rotations for them. It s=
eems to me that there's no ambiguity if one click determines the move. Is i=
t true? Thanks.
>=20
> Nan
>=20

Hi Andrey,

It's OK to use three clicks. I just solved the edge turning tesseract. I al=
ways triple click on an edge piece to turn it. Clicking an edge three times=
happens to work on ET. But for RT this trick doesn't work.=20

Nan

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Andrey" wrote:
>
> Nan,
> May be there is no ambiguity. But I don't see common algorithm that fin=
ds best twist for single click when the twist is not cell-centered. Program=
doesn't know the type of the axis - is knows only that it's not passes thr=
ough cell center. And I couldn't find best axis and twist for all situation=
s - so I implemented "stickers chain"-based interface for them.=20
>=20
> Andrey
>=20
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "schuma" wrote:
> >
> > Andrey,
> >=20
> > I looked at 4D_RT and 4D_ET just now. I think they are really neat and =
nice puzzles. I am wondering why we need three click rotations for them. It=
seems to me that there's no ambiguity if one click determines the move. Is=
it true? Thanks.
> >=20
> > Nan
> >
>

Nan,
multiclick twists work in the following way:
- you select ridge/edge/vrtex by click in it
- program highlights stickers that may be moved by the twist
- you click some highlighted sticker
- programs checks where it can go and highlights possible destinations
- you click the destination sticker for your twists
- if more than one twist is possible, and last clicked sticker may go to di=
fferent places, program highlights them - and go to previous step
- if there is only one destination for last clicked sticker, but more than =
one twist is possible, program highlights stickers that have more than one =
destination - and go to step 3.
So when you click the edge in ET three times, you say "twist this edge, b=
ut keep this sticker in place". There is only one possible twist (180 deg).=
For 120 deg you should select different destination for the sticker (3C st=
icker on other cell).

Andrey


--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "schuma" wrote:
>
> Hi Andrey,
>=20
> It's OK to use three clicks. I just solved the edge turning tesseract. I =
always triple click on an edge piece to turn it. Clicking an edge three tim=
es happens to work on ET. But for RT this trick doesn't work.=20
>=20
> Nan
>=20
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Andrey" wrote:
> >
> > Nan,
> > May be there is no ambiguity. But I don't see common algorithm that f=
inds best twist for single click when the twist is not cell-centered. Progr=
am doesn't know the type of the axis - is knows only that it's not passes t=
hrough cell center. And I couldn't find best axis and twist for all situati=
ons - so I implemented "stickers chain"-based interface for them.=20
> >=20
> > Andrey
> >=20
> > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "schuma" wrote:
> > >
> > > Andrey,
> > >=20
> > > I looked at 4D_RT and 4D_ET just now. I think they are really neat an=
d nice puzzles. I am wondering why we need three click rotations for them. =
It seems to me that there's no ambiguity if one click determines the move. =
Is it true? Thanks.
> > >=20
> > > Nan
> > >
> >
>

--20cf303f6c4a8b6d7b04a35c82aa
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi,

Aha, now I know how I missed the point. I didn't realize the program can
directly do a 120 deg turn. In my solve, I always use two 180 deg turns to
make it. If only 180 deg turns are allowed, then one click turning would be
possible. Similarly, in 4D_RT, if only 90 deg turns are allowed, then one
click turning would be possible. I forgot about other possibilities.
Actually I tend to think of the minimum degree turns as "primary" turns and
the others as higher order turns.

Nan

On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 8:19 PM, Andrey wrote:

>
>
> Nan,
> multiclick twists work in the following way:
> - you select ridge/edge/vrtex by click in it
> - program highlights stickers that may be moved by the twist
> - you click some highlighted sticker
> - programs checks where it can go and highlights possible destinations
> - you click the destination sticker for your twists
> - if more than one twist is possible, and last clicked sticker may go to
> different places, program highlights them - and go to previous step
> - if there is only one destination for last clicked sticker, but more than
> one twist is possible, program highlights stickers that have more than one
> destination - and go to step 3.
> So when you click the edge in ET three times, you say "twist this edge, but
> keep this sticker in place". There is only one possible twist (180 deg). For
> 120 deg you should select different destination for the sticker (3C sticker
> on other cell).
>
>
> Andrey
>
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "schuma" wrote:
> >
> > Hi Andrey,
> >
> > It's OK to use three clicks. I just solved the edge turning tesseract. I
> always triple click on an edge piece to turn it. Clicking an edge three
> times happens to work on ET. But for RT this trick doesn't work.
> >
> > Nan
> >
> > --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Andrey" wrote:
> > >
> > > Nan,
> > > May be there is no ambiguity. But I don't see common algorithm that
> finds best twist for single click when the twist is not cell-centered.
> Program doesn't know the type of the axis - is knows only that it's not
> passes through cell center. And I couldn't find best axis and twist for all
> situations - so I implemented "stickers chain"-based interface for them.
> > >
>

--20cf303f6c4a8b6d7b04a35c82aa
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

Aha, now I know how I missed the point. I didn't realize the=
program can directly do a 120 deg turn. In my solve, I always use two 180 =
deg turns to make it. If only 180 deg turns are allowed, then one click tur=
ning would be possible. Similarly, in 4D_RT, if only 90 deg turns are allow=
ed, then one click turning would be possible. I forgot about other possibil=
ities. Actually I tend to think of the minimum degree turns as "primar=
y" turns and the others as higher order turns.


Nan