Thread: "The 3 slice pentachoron"

From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 15:33:51 -0000
Subject: The 3 slice pentachoron



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I asked in this forum for instructions for the pentachoron (3 slices).

Since I got no reaction I think that these instructions do not exist. At
least not for a layered solution (as Roice's for the magic cube). This
is not astonishing because the pentachoron beeing smaller (only 5 cells
compared with the 8 cells of the magic cube) seems to be more ensnared.
Reading (watching, playing) the log files from R.Durka I can't learn
anything. Does he use computer aid?

We can distinguish the following technics (1) fully by hand, (2) by hand
and macros, (3) with heavy computer aid. I'm doing (2).

Without any macros and commutators you can do the 5 faces with 4
differently colored octahedra. Then the 5 fourcolored corners can be
done with slice 3 twists only.
After that you have the hard core of the job to be done: the 10
threecolored edges. For the moment I have established a 3-cycles across
an edge, a 3-cycle in a face and a 3-cycle around a vertex. I have also
a concept for a sequence which mirrors two edges in their place. I need
also a sequence to turn two edges in their place. All these sequences
work with slice 2 twists of course.

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Times New Roman">I asked in this forum for instructions for the pentachoron=
(3 slices).


Times New Roman">Since I got no reaction I think that these instructions do=
not exist. At least not for a layered solution (as Roice's for the magic c=
ube). This is not astonishing because the pentachoron beeing smaller (only =
5 cells compared with the 8 cells of the magic cube) seems to be more ensna=
red. Reading (watching, playing) the log files from R.Durka I can't learn a=
nything. Does he use computer aid?


Times New Roman">We can distinguish the following technics (1) fully by han=
d, (2) by hand and macros, (3) with heavy computer aid. I'm doing (2).o>


Times New Roman">Without any macros and commutators you can do the 5 faces =
with 4 differently colored octahedra. Then the 5 fourcolored corners can be=
done with slice 3 twists only.

=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman';FONT-SIZE: 12pt;" lang=3D"EN-GB">After t=
hat you have the hard core of the job to be done: the 10 threecolored edges=
. For the moment I have established a 3-cycles across an edge, a 3-cycle in=
a face and a 3-cycle around a vertex. I have also a concept for a sequence=
which mirrors two edges in their place. I need also a sequence to <=
U>turn two edges in their place. All these sequences work with slice 2 =
twists of course.


--7-9995801635-9007949432=:4--




From: Roice Nelson <roice3@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:43:40 -0600
Subject: Re: [MC4D] The 3 slice pentachoron



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Hi Eduard,

Yep, I haven't yet seen any published guide for this puzzle. What I've
thought would be neat is if the superliminal wiki could evolve into a guide,
in addition to tracking all the user solves. So each puzzle page
(this onefor the thrice
sliced simplex) would also have a "sequence library" section,
which could be referenced by people attempting to do a solve. I'm not sure
the best format for these sequence libraries. Maybe it could start out as
just a macro file, but written out descriptions could also be included and
would be nice. A short overview of how to attack the puzzle would be useful
as well, like you've written out below. I imagine the guides as much more
bare boned than the 3^4 solution - more of a set of guideposts for more
experienced puzzle explorers. Anyway, if you felt motivated to do so, I'd
encourage you to share the sequences you've uncovered in the wiki.

(Though I've come to no conclusions, I've been wondering a little lately if
there might be a better way to organize the rich repository of knowledge
that is our group's email history, so people could quickly find information
they are interested in. It seems something like the above would be a step
in the right direction.)

All the best,
Roice

On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Eduard wrote:

>
>
> I asked in this forum for instructions for the pentachoron (3 slices).
>
> Since I got no reaction I think that these instructions do not exist. At
> least not for a layered solution (as Roice's for the magic cube). This is
> not astonishing because the pentachoron beeing smaller (only 5 cells
> compared with the 8 cells of the magic cube) seems to be more ensnared.
> Reading (watching, playing) the log files from R.Durka I can't learn
> anything. Does he use computer aid?
>
> We can distinguish the following technics (1) fully by hand, (2) by hand
> and macros, (3) with heavy computer aid. I'm doing (2).
>
> Without any macros and commutators you can do the 5 faces with 4
> differently colored octahedra. Then the 5 fourcolored corners can be done
> with slice 3 twists only.
> After that you have the hard core of the job to be done: the 10
> threecolored edges. For the moment I have established a 3-cycles across an
> edge, a 3-cycle in a face and a 3-cycle around a vertex. I have also a
> concept for a sequence which *mirrors* two edges in their place. I need
> also a sequence to *turn* two edges in their place. All these sequences
> work with slice 2 twists of course.
>
>

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Hi Eduard,

=A0

Yep, I haven't yet seen any published guide for this puzzle.=A0 Wh=
at I've thought would be neat is if the superliminal wiki could evolve =
into a guide, in addition to tracking all the user solves.=A0 So each puzzl=
e page (this one =
for the thrice sliced=A0simplex) would also have a "sequence library&q=
uot; section, which could be referenced by people attempting to do a solve.=
=A0 I'm not sure the best format for=A0these sequence libraries.=A0 May=
be it could start out as just a macro file, but written out descriptions co=
uld also be included and would be nice.=A0 A short overview of how to attac=
k the puzzle would be useful as well, like you've written out below.=A0=
I imagine the guides as much more bare boned than the 3^4 solution - more =
of a set of guideposts for more experienced puzzle explorers.=A0 Anyway, if=
you felt motivated to do so, I'd encourage you to share the sequences =
you've uncovered in the wiki.


=A0

(Though I've come to no conclusions, I've been wondering a lit=
tle lately if there might be a better way to organize the rich repository o=
f knowledge that is our group's email history, so people could quickly =
find information they are interested in.=A0 It seems something like the abo=
ve would be a step in the right direction.)


=A0

All the best,

Roice


On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Eduard r=3D"ltr"><baumann@mcnet.ch><=
/span> wrote:

; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote">



Times New Roman">I asked in this forum for instructions for the pentachoron=
(3 slices).


Times New Roman">Since I got no reaction I think that these instructions do=
not exist. At least not for a layered solution (as Roice's for the mag=
ic cube). This is not astonishing because the pentachoron beeing smaller (o=
nly 5 cells compared with the 8 cells of the magic cube) seems to be more e=
nsnared. Reading (watching, playing) the log files from R.Durka I can't=
learn anything. Does he use computer aid?



Times New Roman">We can distinguish the following technics (1) fully by han=
d, (2) by hand and macros, (3) with heavy computer aid. I'm doing (2).<=
/font>



Times New Roman">Without any macros and commutators you can do the 5 faces =
with 4 differently colored octahedra. Then the 5 fourcolored corners can be=
done with slice 3 twists only.


g=3D"EN-GB">After that you have the hard core of the job to be done: the 10=
threecolored edges. For the moment I have established a 3-cycles across an=
edge, a 3-cycle in a face and a 3-cycle around a vertex. I have also a con=
cept for a sequence which mirrors two edges in their place. I need a=
lso a sequence to turn two edges in their place. All these sequences=
work with slice 2 twists of course.




div>


--0015174c1c287867e4049c55b4a1--




From: "Matthew" <damienturtle@hotmail.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 18:24:33 -0000
Subject: Re: The 3 slice pentachoron



With a little thought, the {3,3,3}3 puzzle (this can serve to check I'm thi=
nking of the correct puzzle) is fairly easy to solve. The octahedra locate=
d around a vertex are one piece and can easily be orientated correctly, and=
the tetrahedra at each vertex are equivalent to the trivial tips on a pyra=
minx and thus are easy to solve in a similar manner, although you know all =
this already. This leaves the 10 edges which can be 3-cycled using basical=
ly the same 4-move sequence which applies on a normal pyraminx. This allow=
s the sequence which flips 2 edges on a pyraminx to also apply. A slight c=
hange in 4D is similar to one found on the 3x3x3x3: you can have a single e=
dge with incorrect orientation. Think about the previous sequence to flip =
2 edges in place (switching 2 stickers on each, to clarify). Perform this,=
then perform a single twist about an edge to change the stickers being swa=
pped on one of those edges. Then repeat (or undo) the flipping sequence an=
d undo the edge twist. I will upload a log file demonstrating this after p=
osting. Any more questions, just ask (I sometimes don't explain things wel=
l).

Matt

PS. Funny coincidence, my Meffert's Professor Pyraminx arrived today, so I =
might do the {3,3,3}5 for fun sometime soon. When/if I do, I can write a s=
hort guide if there is enough interest, although I feel that most of the fu=
n in this group is covering new ground and solving puzzles with no tutorial=
to follow.

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" wrote:
>
>=20
> I asked in this forum for instructions for the pentachoron (3 slices).
>=20
> Since I got no reaction I think that these instructions do not exist. At
> least not for a layered solution (as Roice's for the magic cube). This
> is not astonishing because the pentachoron beeing smaller (only 5 cells
> compared with the 8 cells of the magic cube) seems to be more ensnared.
> Reading (watching, playing) the log files from R.Durka I can't learn
> anything. Does he use computer aid?
>=20
> We can distinguish the following technics (1) fully by hand, (2) by hand
> and macros, (3) with heavy computer aid. I'm doing (2).
>=20
> Without any macros and commutators you can do the 5 faces with 4
> differently colored octahedra. Then the 5 fourcolored corners can be
> done with slice 3 twists only.
> After that you have the hard core of the job to be done: the 10
> threecolored edges. For the moment I have established a 3-cycles across
> an edge, a 3-cycle in a face and a 3-cycle around a vertex. I have also
> a concept for a sequence which mirrors two edges in their place. I need
> also a sequence to turn two edges in their place. All these sequences
> work with slice 2 twists of course.
>




From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 20:59:21 -0000
Subject: Re: The 3 slice pentachoron



Thanks for the answer.

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Matthew" wrote:
>
> With a little thought, the {3,3,3}3 puzzle (this can serve to check I'm t=
hinking of the correct puzzle) is fairly easy to solve. The octahedra loca=
ted around a vertex are one piece and can easily be orientated correctly, a=
nd the tetrahedra at each vertex are equivalent to the trivial tips on a py=
raminx and thus are easy to solve in a similar manner, although you know al=
l this already. This leaves the 10 edges which can be 3-cycled using basic=
ally the same 4-move sequence which applies on a normal pyraminx. This all=
ows the sequence which flips 2 edges on a pyraminx to also apply. A slight=
change in 4D is similar to one found on the 3x3x3x3: you can have a single=
edge with incorrect orientation. Think about the previous sequence to fli=
p 2 edges in place (switching 2 stickers on each, to clarify). Perform thi=
s, then perform a single twist about an edge to change the stickers being s=
wapped on one of those edges. Then repeat (or undo) the flipping sequence =
and undo the edge twist. I will upload a log file demonstrating this after=
posting. Any more questions, just ask (I sometimes don't explain things w=
ell).
>=20
> Matt
>=20
> PS. Funny coincidence, my Meffert's Professor Pyraminx arrived today, so =
I might do the {3,3,3}5 for fun sometime soon. When/if I do, I can write a=
short guide if there is enough interest, although I feel that most of the =
fun in this group is covering new ground and solving puzzles with no tutori=
al to follow.
>=20
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" wrote:
> >
> >=20
> > I asked in this forum for instructions for the pentachoron (3 slices).
> >=20
> > Since I got no reaction I think that these instructions do not exist. A=
t
> > least not for a layered solution (as Roice's for the magic cube). This
> > is not astonishing because the pentachoron beeing smaller (only 5 cells
> > compared with the 8 cells of the magic cube) seems to be more ensnared.
> > Reading (watching, playing) the log files from R.Durka I can't learn
> > anything. Does he use computer aid?
> >=20
> > We can distinguish the following technics (1) fully by hand, (2) by han=
d
> > and macros, (3) with heavy computer aid. I'm doing (2).
> >=20
> > Without any macros and commutators you can do the 5 faces with 4
> > differently colored octahedra. Then the 5 fourcolored corners can be
> > done with slice 3 twists only.
> > After that you have the hard core of the job to be done: the 10
> > threecolored edges. For the moment I have established a 3-cycles across
> > an edge, a 3-cycle in a face and a 3-cycle around a vertex. I have also
> > a concept for a sequence which mirrors two edges in their place. I need
> > also a sequence to turn two edges in their place. All these sequences
> > work with slice 2 twists of course.
> >
>




From: "Eduard" <baumann@mcnet.ch>
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 21:00:29 -0000
Subject: Re: [MC4D] The 3 slice pentachoron



Thanks for the answer.

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Roice Nelson wrote:
>
> Hi Eduard,
>=20
> Yep, I haven't yet seen any published guide for this puzzle. What I've
> thought would be neat is if the superliminal wiki could evolve into a gui=
de,
> in addition to tracking all the user solves. So each puzzle page
> (this onefor the thrice
> sliced simplex) would also have a "sequence library" section,
> which could be referenced by people attempting to do a solve. I'm not su=
re
> the best format for these sequence libraries. Maybe it could start out a=
s
> just a macro file, but written out descriptions could also be included an=
d
> would be nice. A short overview of how to attack the puzzle would be use=
ful
> as well, like you've written out below. I imagine the guides as much mor=
e
> bare boned than the 3^4 solution - more of a set of guideposts for more
> experienced puzzle explorers. Anyway, if you felt motivated to do so, I'=
d
> encourage you to share the sequences you've uncovered in the wiki.
>=20
> (Though I've come to no conclusions, I've been wondering a little lately =
if
> there might be a better way to organize the rich repository of knowledge
> that is our group's email history, so people could quickly find informati=
on
> they are interested in. It seems something like the above would be a ste=
p
> in the right direction.)
>=20
> All the best,
> Roice
>=20
> On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Eduard wrote:
>=20
> >
> >
> > I asked in this forum for instructions for the pentachoron (3 slices).
> >
> > Since I got no reaction I think that these instructions do not exist. A=
t
> > least not for a layered solution (as Roice's for the magic cube). This =
is
> > not astonishing because the pentachoron beeing smaller (only 5 cells
> > compared with the 8 cells of the magic cube) seems to be more ensnared.
> > Reading (watching, playing) the log files from R.Durka I can't learn
> > anything. Does he use computer aid?
> >
> > We can distinguish the following technics (1) fully by hand, (2) by han=
d
> > and macros, (3) with heavy computer aid. I'm doing (2).
> >
> > Without any macros and commutators you can do the 5 faces with 4
> > differently colored octahedra. Then the 5 fourcolored corners can be do=
ne
> > with slice 3 twists only.
> > After that you have the hard core of the job to be done: the 10
> > threecolored edges. For the moment I have established a 3-cycles across=
an
> > edge, a 3-cycle in a face and a 3-cycle around a vertex. I have also a
> > concept for a sequence which *mirrors* two edges in their place. I need
> > also a sequence to *turn* two edges in their place. All these sequences
> > work with slice 2 twists of course.
> >
> >
>




From: Melinda Green <melinda@superliminal.com>
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 13:57:13 -0800
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Re: The 3 slice pentachoron



Matt,

If you do decide to create that guide, please consider Roice's=20
suggestion of adding a sequence library to the wiki page for the=20
simplex. Files uploaded to the Yahoo group site are fine for data that=20
you want to reference from within messages but are otherwise not very=20
discoverable.

Log files and especially macro definition files are certainly useful,=20
though I do share your feeling that it is more satisfying when you=20
figure them out on your own. I still feel that solutions performed using=20
any of these aids still count and are worthy of recording. My personal=20
preference is to allow myself use of guides such as Roice's wonderful=20
tutorial, but I'd feel a little funny simply picking up and using=20
someone else's macro file. Somehow creating my macros from someone=20
else's description feels better to me, but again that's just my=20
preference.

To emphasize that, it may be fun to hold a speedsolving contest in which=20
macros are allowed but use of predefined macros is not. Your ability to=20
quickly create a macro suggests to me that you have mastered its=20
essence. I just can't think of a way to run such a contest remotely and=20
reduce the chances that someone will cheat on that point.

-Melinda

On 2/15/2011 10:24 AM, Matthew wrote:
> With a little thought, the {3,3,3}3 puzzle (this can serve to check I'm t=
hinking of the correct puzzle) is fairly easy to solve. The octahedra loca=
ted around a vertex are one piece and can easily be orientated correctly, a=
nd the tetrahedra at each vertex are equivalent to the trivial tips on a py=
raminx and thus are easy to solve in a similar manner, although you know al=
l this already. This leaves the 10 edges which can be 3-cycled using basic=
ally the same 4-move sequence which applies on a normal pyraminx. This all=
ows the sequence which flips 2 edges on a pyraminx to also apply. A slight=
change in 4D is similar to one found on the 3x3x3x3: you can have a single=
edge with incorrect orientation. Think about the previous sequence to fli=
p 2 edges in place (switching 2 stickers on each, to clarify). Perform thi=
s, then perform a single twist about an edge to change the stickers being s=
wapped on one of those edges. Then repeat (or undo) the flipping sequence =
and undo the edge
> twist. I will upload a log file demonstrating this after posting. An=
y more questions, just ask (I sometimes don't explain things well).
>
> Matt
>
> PS. Funny coincidence, my Meffert's Professor Pyraminx arrived today, so =
I might do the {3,3,3}5 for fun sometime soon. When/if I do, I can write a=
short guide if there is enough interest, although I feel that most of the =
fun in this group is covering new ground and solving puzzles with no tutori=
al to follow.
>
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, "Eduard" wrote:
>>
>> I asked in this forum for instructions for the pentachoron (3 slices).
>>
>> Since I got no reaction I think that these instructions do not exist. At
>> least not for a layered solution (as Roice's for the magic cube). This
>> is not astonishing because the pentachoron beeing smaller (only 5 cells
>> compared with the 8 cells of the magic cube) seems to be more ensnared.
>> Reading (watching, playing) the log files from R.Durka I can't learn
>> anything. Does he use computer aid?
>>
>> We can distinguish the following technics (1) fully by hand, (2) by hand
>> and macros, (3) with heavy computer aid. I'm doing (2).
>>
>> Without any macros and commutators you can do the 5 faces with 4
>> differently colored octahedra. Then the 5 fourcolored corners can be
>> done with slice 3 twists only.
>> After that you have the hard core of the job to be done: the 10
>> threecolored edges. For the moment I have established a 3-cycles across
>> an edge, a 3-cycle in a face and a 3-cycle around a vertex. I have also
>> a concept for a sequence which mirrors two edges in their place. I need
>> also a sequence to turn two edges in their place. All these sequences
>> work with slice 2 twists of course.
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>





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