Thread: "MS5D v0.1"

Roice,
thank you for the feedback! I'll check and fix what you mentioned.

As for the 4D rotation, the reason is that there is no equivalent to it i=
n MC4D. When you shift-move camera in MC4D, it is like pan/tilt of camera (=
changing of camera direction while position is unchanged). In MS5D (and in =
the common 4D viewer with "3D retina") we need alternative rotation around =
the point of view: when 4D camera goes around this point and 4D spectator l=
ooks at the same 4D object from the different side. I've desided that we ne=
ed such navigation feature and that it's more useful than 4D pan/tilt. May =
be I'm wrong. May be it will be better to move this rotation to Alt key and=
use Shift for 4D pan.

Andrey


--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Roice Nelson wrote:
>
> Very nice :)
>=20
> My number one feature request is of course animation. I feel that will g=
ive
> a huge benefit in understanding the puzzle.
>=20
> The other main feedback I have for now is that twisting feels backwards.
> When I click 3 stickers in succession, say A,B,C I would expect the end
> result to be a 3-cycle of those stickers that went A->B->C->A (if I'm
> clicking in a clockwise fashion, I'd like the stickers to rotate
> clockwise). Instead, you've chosen to make it A<-B<-C<-A. I was curious
> the reason for this.
>=20
> Minor issues I ran into with my brief interaction:
> - when you have some faces turned off and make a twist, there is
> a highlighting problem (the stickers that should be highlighted are not
> refreshed). Clicking one of the face checkboxes forces a refresh, so tha=
t
> is a workaround.
> - crash when clicking "show pieces", though you did say this wasn't teste=
d.
>=20
> I am finding the 4D shift-left rotations strangely unintuitive (they don=
't
> seem to act like MC4D), but I will have to think on why this is the case
> more before I can give any useful feedback.
>=20
> Awesome as usual Andrey! You're a puzzle producing machine!
> Roice
>=20
>=20
> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 3:10 PM, Andrey wrote:
>=20
> > http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/files/MC7D/
> >
> > No macros, no animation, no recentering, log files not tested... only
> > navigation in S4 and twists are ready.
> >
> > Simplex is rendered by sequence of 3 central projections:
> > - stereographic projection to 4D
> > - perspective projection of 4D to 3D (4D camera)
> > - perspective projection of 3D to the screen. (3D camera)
> >
> > Navigation:
> > Left button - rotation of 3D camera around the center
> > Shift-Left button - rotation of 4D camera in X-W and Y-W directions
> > Shift-Right button (Up/Down) - rotation of 4D camera in Z-W direction
> > Right button (Up/Down) - slide of 5D camera in W direction. It is the o=
nly
> > way to change center of the model view.
> > Ctrl-Left button - Zoom in 3D (Up/Down) and in 4D (Left/Right)
> >
> > Twists:
> > 3-click model is implemented: if you have cell ABCDE (corners are named=
)
> > and click three corner stickers ("5C"), say, A,C,D, then cell will twis=
t to
> > the CBDAE orientation.
> > If you click 4C stickers adjacent to the same corner, e.g. AB, AC, AE, =
then
> > block centered in the vertex A will twist from BCDEF position to CEDBF.
> > Right click in the sticker shows all stickers of the piece. Color filte=
rs
> > not tested.
> >
> > I was lucky to solve puzzle 2/5 scrambled by one twist! But it was
> > difficult :)
> >
> > Good luck!
> > Andrey
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

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Hi Andrey,

Left-shift dragging in MC4D is also a moving 4D camera going around a
stationary point of view (the origin). Dragging left/right rotates around
the XW plane, and dragging up/down rotates around the YW plane, as MS5D
does. To show that you can use it to look at a 4D object from a different
side, all you need to do is look at the cell projected small in the 3^4
puzzle, then left-shift drag until its antipodal cell comes into view.

I think I better understand the difference now. My confusion was a
combination of the direction the camera is rotated (yours looks to be in an
opposite sense), the drag sensitivity, and the fact that we're now looking
at a 5D object (leading to the 5D->4D projected object covering more swaths
of 4D ground). I like the MC4D settings we chose because the direction and
sensitivity make it feel like you are grabbing material to move it. But I
like the choices you've made for MS5D too. It would be nice to have
functionality to center a cell, for when I seem to get the view all messed
up.

To get some seriously trippy "necker"
effects, start a 3D drag then play with pressing shift while still dragging
to switch between 3D and 4D drags. Sometimes, the cell which looks like it
is right in front of you will appear to jump to the very back! (or
vice versa)

seeya,
Roice


On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 6:09 PM, Andrey wrote:

> Roice,
> thank you for the feedback! I'll check and fix what you mentioned.
>
> As for the 4D rotation, the reason is that there is no equivalent to it in
> MC4D. When you shift-move camera in MC4D, it is like pan/tilt of camera
> (changing of camera direction while position is unchanged). In MS5D (and in
> the common 4D viewer with "3D retina") we need alternative rotation around
> the point of view: when 4D camera goes around this point and 4D spectator
> looks at the same 4D object from the different side. I've desided that we
> need such navigation feature and that it's more useful than 4D pan/tilt. May
> be I'm wrong. May be it will be better to move this rotation to Alt key and
> use Shift for 4D pan.
>
> Andrey

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Hi Andrey,