Thread: ":-)"

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ok, never mind me, its the MC5D, 7^5 puzzle, +U, -U, +V, -V faces turned off,
low 5d perspective point distance, small sticker size...



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Unsurprisingly I knew it to be the 7^5 in MC5D. I used view parameters whi=
ch were obviously very similar to the ones shown in the video. Trying to f=
ind a workable view to this puzzle isn't easy, and the fact that someone el=
se independently picked the same view means that it is probably the best on=
e to work with. I don't think I have any screenshots from my solve on this=
computer to upload for comparison, but they would be almost identical anyw=
ay.

Matt

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Andras Ecseki wrote:
>
> ok, never mind me, its the MC5D, 7^5 puzzle, +U, -U, +V, -V faces turned =
off,=20
> low 5d perspective point distance, small sticker size...
>

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That explains a lot, but it wasn't obvious for me, because I used default=20
parameters... ;-)

A






________________________________
From: Matthew
To: 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, October 12, 2010 8:25:41 PM
Subject: [MC4D] Re: :-)

=20=20
Unsurprisingly I knew it to be the 7^5 in MC5D. I used view parameters whi=
ch=20
were obviously very similar to the ones shown in the video. Trying to find=
a=20
workable view to this puzzle isn't easy, and the fact that someone else=20
independently picked the same view means that it is probably the best one t=
o=20
work with. I don't think I have any screenshots from my solve on this comp=
uter=20
to upload for comparison, but they would be almost identical anyway.

Matt

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Andras Ecseki wrote:
>
> ok, never mind me, its the MC5D, 7^5 puzzle, +U, -U, +V, -V faces turned =
off,=20
> low 5d perspective point distance, small sticker size...
>


=20


=20=20=20=20=20=20
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ad>

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This is interesting to me because of my experience with tuning the 4D
viewing parameters for my own use. Certainly some views are better than
others. I even had hopes that ones in which adjacent stickers are
exactly touching their neighbors might be good because that's a closer
analog to the 3D puzzle, but that did not turn out to be the case. I
find that I like to move the puzzle around a lot while planning my next
steps, but I also know that Don likes to choose one static orientation
that lets him see every sticker, and then only perform 90 degree
rotations in 4D. I.E. using ctrl-click rotate a face to the center. So
certainly different people prefer different viewing parameters but
perhaps some collections of parameters are more or less ideal for most
people. If so, I'd certainly want to make those the default values at
the very least, and possibly even remove their UI controls or make them
into debugging or advanced options.

I feel towards the 5D puzzle much like I imagine a 3D solver must feel
when encountering the 4D puzzle for the first time. I understand how to
approach the problem of solving it but find that I have almost no idea
how to best choose viewing parameters and their interactions. I
therefore have two questions for everyone:

1) Would you please send me your "mc4d.props" file? It is probably in
the folder that contains the program. In your email, please also briefly
describe which of your preferences you adjust frequently and why. I'm
particularly interested in face-shrink and sticker-shrink.

2) For those of you who have solved or made serious attempts at 5D and
higher dimensional puzzles, there's no need to send me your preferences
file though Roice may be interested in getting those. Still, I'd love
to hear more about which parameters you needed to tune permanently and
which you adjust frequently and why.

Feel free to reply privately or publicly to the list with your
descriptions. Just don't send your files to the list.

I also wonder whether there might exist sets of viewing parameters that
are ideal across all dimensions, but that's more of a blue-sky subject.
Who knows, maybe some day we'll have a single implementation that has
the best UI for all possible puzzles across all possible dimensions!

-Melinda

On 10/12/2010 2:35 PM, Andras Ecseki wrote:
>
>
> That explains a lot, but it wasn't obvious for me, because I used
> default parameters... ;-)
>
> A
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Matthew
> *To:* 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com
> *Sent:* Tue, October 12, 2010 8:25:41 PM
> *Subject:* [MC4D] Re: :-)
>
> Unsurprisingly I knew it to be the 7^5 in MC5D. I used view parameters
> which were obviously very similar to the ones shown in the video.
> Trying to find a workable view to this puzzle isn't easy, and the fact
> that someone else independently picked the same view means that it is
> probably the best one to work with. I don't think I have any
> screenshots from my solve on this computer to upload for comparison,
> but they would be almost identical anyway.
>
> Matt
>
> --- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com ,
> Andras Ecseki wrote:
> >
> > ok, never mind me, its the MC5D, 7^5 puzzle, +U, -U, +V, -V faces
> turned off,
> > low 5d perspective point distance, small sticker size...
> >
>
>
>
>
>

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">


This is interesting to me because of my experience with tuning the
4D viewing parameters for my own use. Certainly some views are
better than others. I even had hopes that ones in which adjacent
stickers are exactly touching their neighbors might be good because
that's a closer analog to the 3D puzzle, but that did not turn out
to be the case. I find that I like to move the puzzle around a lot
while planning my next steps, but I also know that Don likes to
choose one static orientation that lets him see every sticker, and
then only perform 90 degree rotations in 4D. I.E. using ctrl-click
rotate a face to the center. So certainly different people prefer
different viewing parameters but perhaps some collections of
parameters are more or less ideal for most people. If so, I'd
certainly want to make those the default values at the very least,
and possibly even remove their UI controls or make them into
debugging or advanced options.



I feel towards the 5D puzzle much like I imagine a 3D solver must
feel when encountering the 4D puzzle for the first time. I
understand how to approach the problem of solving it but find that I
have almost no idea how to best choose viewing parameters and their
interactions. I therefore have two questions for everyone:



1) Would you please send me your "mc4d.props" file? It is probably
in the folder that contains the program. In your email, please also
briefly describe which of your preferences you adjust frequently and
why. I'm particularly interested in face-shrink and sticker-shrink.



2) For those of you who have solved or made serious attempts at 5D
and higher dimensional puzzles, there's no need to send me your
preferences file though Roice may be interested in getting those.=C2=A0
Still, I'd love to hear more about which parameters you needed to
tune permanently and which you adjust frequently and why.



Feel free to reply privately or publicly to the list with your
descriptions. Just don't send your files to the list.



I also wonder whether there might exist sets of viewing parameters
that are ideal across all dimensions, but that's more of a blue-sky
subject. Who knows, maybe some day we'll have a single
implementation that has the best UI for all possible puzzles across
all possible dimensions!



-Melinda



On 10/12/2010 2:35 PM, Andras Ecseki wrote:

type=3D"cite">


=20=20=20=20=20=20

12pt;">That explains a lot, but it wasn't obvious for me,
because I used default parameters... ;-)



A

12pt;">

border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); font-family: times
new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"> face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2">

---

From:pan>
Matthew ienturtle@hotmail.co.uk"><damienturtle@hotmail.co.uk>

To:
g@yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tue,
October 12, 2010 8:25:41 PM

Subject:
[MC4D] Re: :-)



=C2=A0

Unsurprisingly I knew it to be the 7^5 in MC5D. I used
view parameters which were obviously very similar to the
ones shown in the video. Trying to find a workable view
to this puzzle isn't easy, and the fact that someone
else independently picked the same view means that it is
probably the best one to work with. I don't think I have
any screenshots from my solve on this computer to upload
for comparison, but they would be almost identical
anyway.



Matt



--- In ymailto=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing%40yahoogroups.com"
target=3D"_blank"
href=3D"mailto:4D_Cubing%40yahoogroups.com">4D_Cubing@yah=
oogroups.com,
Andras Ecseki ilto:andras_ecseki@..."><andras_ecseki@...> wrote:

>

> ok, never mind me, its the MC5D, 7^5 puzzle, +U,
-U, +V, -V faces turned off,

> low 5d perspective point distance, small sticker
size...

>

=20=20=20=20=20=20

Melinda,
I found that viewing parameters in MC4D that are optimal for me are diffe=
rent for different puzzles and for different stages of solving.
For 3^4 I use some medium sticker size and medium-to-small faces. Sometim=
es I find that it's better to use smaller stickers on the first stage (sear=
ch of "red" 2C stickers), but usually I forget about it (or have no time).
For 5^4 I've used three different settings. On the first two stages (solv=
ing of the first center and of "central" 4x1x1x1 columns) there were small =
stickers and small-to-medium faces - for better view of inside stickers. On=
the next stage stickers were larger (with 20% gap), but faces were small e=
nough so they haven't hide each other. On the last stage (after reduction t=
o 5^3) I've set sticker and face separation to almost zero - so that the pu=
zzle looked like more familiar 3D cube.
Puzzles with small face number (simplex and {3}x{3}) require the minimal =
possible "Eye W Scale" parameter - and it wasn't enough: external faces of =
puzzle appeared almost flat. And for these puzzles I heavily use free 4D na=
vigation (right-button sliding). Sticker and face sizes are medium.
Prop files for these cases are in http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_=
Cubing/files/MC7D/aa_mc4d_props.zip file.

Andrey

--- In 4D_Cubing@yahoogroups.com, Melinda Green wrote:
>
> This is interesting to me because of my experience with tuning the 4D=20
> viewing parameters for my own use. Certainly some views are better than=20
> others. I even had hopes that ones in which adjacent stickers are=20
> exactly touching their neighbors might be good because that's a closer=20
> analog to the 3D puzzle, but that did not turn out to be the case. I=20
> find that I like to move the puzzle around a lot while planning my next=20
> steps, but I also know that Don likes to choose one static orientation=20
> that lets him see every sticker, and then only perform 90 degree=20
> rotations in 4D. I.E. using ctrl-click rotate a face to the center. So=20
> certainly different people prefer different viewing parameters but=20
> perhaps some collections of parameters are more or less ideal for most=20
> people. If so, I'd certainly want to make those the default values at=20
> the very least, and possibly even remove their UI controls or make them=20
> into debugging or advanced options.
>=20
> I feel towards the 5D puzzle much like I imagine a 3D solver must feel=20
> when encountering the 4D puzzle for the first time. I understand how to=20
> approach the problem of solving it but find that I have almost no idea=20
> how to best choose viewing parameters and their interactions. I=20
> therefore have two questions for everyone:
>=20
> 1) Would you please send me your "mc4d.props" file? It is probably in=20
> the folder that contains the program. In your email, please also briefly=
=20
> describe which of your preferences you adjust frequently and why. I'm=20
> particularly interested in face-shrink and sticker-shrink.
>=20
> 2) For those of you who have solved or made serious attempts at 5D and=20
> higher dimensional puzzles, there's no need to send me your preferences=20
> file though Roice may be interested in getting those. Still, I'd love=20
> to hear more about which parameters you needed to tune permanently and=20
> which you adjust frequently and why.
>=20
> Feel free to reply privately or publicly to the list with your=20
> descriptions. Just don't send your files to the list.
>=20
> I also wonder whether there might exist sets of viewing parameters that=20
> are ideal across all dimensions, but that's more of a blue-sky subject.=20
> Who knows, maybe some day we'll have a single implementation that has=20
> the best UI for all possible puzzles across all possible dimensions!
>=20
> -Melinda