Thread: "Announcing MagicCube4D version 4.0 beta ready for"

Like Melinda, I'd also like to encourage doi=
ng a quick search for existing issues first before adding new ones (there i=
s a search box at the top of the page). =A0This will help avoid duplicates.=

Melinda has already been pointing some existing issues =
out, and here are a few more problems/requests that are being discussed whi=
ch already have issues.

-=A0.google.com/p/magiccube4d/issues/detail?id=3D41">Issue 42=A0requests to=
read old log files.

-=A0=3D41">Issue 1=A0requests zooming by right-click dragging=A0(we'll =
close this if you guys are happy with Melinda's changes).

- I=
went ahead and opened es/detail?id=3D61">Issue 61 for the macros within macros request. =A0div>


=


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From: Anthony Deschamps <anthony.j.deschamps@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 18:47:06 -0400
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Announcing MagicCube4D version 4.0 beta ready for

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I'm very impressed. Thank you so much.

I love the freedom to rotate the puzzle through the fourth dimension without
having to ctr click a face. And even though I keep thinking that the undo
shortcut will affect the rotation of the entire puzzle, like in the previous
version, it's nice to be able to undo/redo moves and see how they affect
other parts of the puzzle.

I agree with what others have said about the colour scheme, and I think the
system you described would work pretty well. However, sometimes distinctive
colours aren't enough. I think you should consider implementing some sort
of piece finding functionality, either like in MC5D or the 120 Cell, which
are both useful functions. This would really help when solving puzzles with
many faces.

It's a good think I'm only in high school and therefore have a decent amount
of free time, because I'm really enjoying this new program.

--Anthony

On Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Melinda Green wrote:

>
>
> Hello Jay!
>
> How is everything with you?
>
>
> Jay Berkenbilt wrote:
> > Melinda Green >
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Here it is, the puzzle you've been waiting for: the first beta release
> >> of MC4D version 4.0! You can get it now from the project's Downloads
> >> page here:
> >>
> >> http://code.google.com/p/magiccube4d/downloads/list
> >>
> >> Bookmark that page because that will be where you will find all future
> >> versions too.
> >>
> >
> > This is breathtaking. Now I'm going to have to quit my job so I can
> > spend all my time playing with it! Not sure what to do about those
> > pesky bills though.
> >
>
> Hey, if I quit my job just to implement it, it's the least you can do! ;-)
> Actually this was only one of many reasons but I'm still very glad that
> you like it.
>
>
> > I've tried this in Linux, and although it starts up okay, it doesn't
> > really run, at least my system. I'll go through the issue tracker with
> > details.
>
> OK, well at least it's a start. What exactly happens when you attempt a
> twist? Does it get any better if you uncheck "Allow Antialiasing"?
>
>
> > Who knows....maybe I'll end up, 11 years after my initial
> > involvement, once again helping to get it smooth on Linux! I'm half
> > joking though -- it's in Java, so I don't anticipate a problem. It's
> > probably an issue of 3D graphics drivers or something along those lines.
> >
>
> Has it really been 11 years?! You sure were a godsend the last time
> around when we were stuck with code that was too much of a mess to clean
> or release. It sure would be wonderful to see you getting involved
> again. The code is *much* cleaner now.
>
> Looking forward to at least seeing you take one of the new "firsts" prizes!
>
> Happy puzzling!
> -Melinda
>
>

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I'm very impressed.=A0 Thank you so much.

I love the freedom to =
rotate the puzzle through the fourth dimension without having to ctr click =
a face.=A0 And even though I keep thinking that the undo shortcut will affe=
ct the rotation of the entire puzzle, like in the previous version, it'=
s nice to be able to undo/redo moves and see how they affect other parts of=
the puzzle.


I agree with what others have said about the colour scheme, and I think=
the system you described would work pretty well.=A0 However, sometimes dis=
tinctive colours aren't enough.=A0 I think you should consider implemen=
ting some sort of piece finding functionality, either like in MC5D or the 1=
20 Cell, which are both useful functions.=A0 This would really help when so=
lving puzzles with many faces.


It's a good think I'm only in high school and therefore have a =
decent amount of free time, because I'm really enjoying this new progra=
m.

--Anthony

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From: Chris Locke <project.eutopia@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 20:44:35 +0900
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Announcing MagicCube4D version 4.0 beta ready for

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First of all, I want to thank Melinda and Roice for writing and sharing this
great piece of software with the world! You've done a great job and we are
all very thankful for your hard work.

Second, I want to congratulate those who have solved some of the new puzzles
so far. In particular, Anthony for solving the 3 layer deep pentagonal
duoprism. I actually started working on the same puzzle too a few days ago
and managed to solve about half the puzzle before you uploaded your solution
to the wiki. Congrats! Upon looking at your solution, I see you were able
to solve the puzzle with much more finess than I have been working with. I
tend to rely on macros quite a bit to work my way out from 2 color pieces,
up to the 4 color pieces. As such, I often work with reset puzzles to find
algorithms to permute/orient just the pieces I want, and then use these
algorithms to build up other algorithms. So really, my way of solving is
mostly just being careful and patient. It also helps that after a while,
you find out what kind of moves tend to give potential good algorithms.
Commutators are one useful building block. Also, you can sometimes find new
algorithms by taking other sequences (like a simple aba'b') and applying it
multiple times. Doing this you will sometimes find it fixes much of what it
does, leaving just what you need moved around (like it's almost nilpotent).
Of course, conjugation can then vastly increase the usefulness of each
algorithm. .... but that's a bit more of a digression than I intended :D

Before I forget, this actually brings me to a question I have. Will there
also be a record page for everyone who's solved the puzzles, not just the
first and shortest solutions? If not, then I will still finish my puzzle,
but I won't be in as much of a hurry, so I can do other things too in my
evenings :D. However if we will have such a list, I might try to finish it
earlier rather than later if I find the time.

Chris

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First of all, I want to thank Melinda and Roice for writing and sharing thi=
s great piece of software with the world!=C2=A0 You've done a great job=
and we are all very thankful for your hard work.

Second, I want to =
congratulate those who have solved some of the new puzzles so far.=C2=A0 In=
particular, Anthony for solving the 3 layer deep pentagonal duoprism.=C2=
=A0 I actually started working on the same puzzle too a few days ago and ma=
naged to solve about half the puzzle before you uploaded your solution to t=
he wiki.=C2=A0 Congrats!=C2=A0 Upon looking at your solution, I see you wer=
e able to solve the puzzle with much more finess than I have been working w=
ith.=C2=A0 I tend to rely on macros quite a bit to work my way out from 2 c=
olor pieces, up to the 4 color pieces.=C2=A0 As such, I often work with res=
et puzzles to find algorithms to permute/orient just the pieces I want, and=
then use these algorithms to build up other algorithms.=C2=A0 So really, m=
y way of solving is mostly just being careful and patient.=C2=A0 It also he=
lps that after a while, you find out what kind of moves tend to give potent=
ial good algorithms.=C2=A0 Commutators are one useful building block.=C2=A0=
Also, you can sometimes find new algorithms by taking other sequences (lik=
e a simple aba'b') and applying it multiple times.=C2=A0 Doing this=
you will sometimes find it fixes much of what it does, leaving just what y=
ou need moved around (like it's almost nilpotent).=C2=A0 Of course, con=
jugation can then vastly increase the usefulness of each algorithm.=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 .... but that's a bit more of a digression than I intended :D>

Before I forget, this actually brings me to a question I have.=C2=A0 Wi=
ll there also be a record page for everyone who's solved the puzzles, n=
ot just the first and shortest solutions?=C2=A0 If not, then I will still f=
inish my puzzle, but I won't be in as much of a hurry, so I can do othe=
r things too in my evenings :D.=C2=A0 However if we will have such a list, =
I might try to finish it earlier rather than later if I find the time.


Chris


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From: Roice Nelson <roice3@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:54:02 -0500
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Announcing MagicCube4D version 4.0 beta ready for

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Hi Chris,

You're welcome, and thanks for all your appreciation :D This also gives me
the opportunity to publicly thank Melinda and Don myself. When Melinda
shared this with me in mid-June, I was blown away. Don did an amazing job
with the bones of the program (I think he experiences permutation puzzles on
a higher plane of existence, or maybe a better way to put it is "on a
hyperplane of existence"), and Melinda has been amazing in making those
bones a polished product. I'm really thankful to have been included, and
feel privileged to get to play a part with it.

Congrats to Anthony too. I was using the the "{5}x{4} 3" as a test run of
the program, so he trumped me as well :) To answer your question on the
wiki, the sky is the limit. One reason we wanted to do the wiki was to give
power to everybody in helping to direct things like this. I think a list of
"full solutions in order of achievement" type table would be nice to have
for each puzzle, and I encourage you to start one for this puzzle as soon as
you complete your solution. The wiki could evolve a number of ways as the
number of solutions grow, but in my mind I was imagining a main puzzle page
with a basic list of all the puzzles and the first/shortest, which linked to
a puzzle specific page for each. The latter would have info about each
puzzle (maybe a picture, the piece/permutation counts, etc), and the full
list of everyone who has solved it, as well as the history of shortests.
I've been pleased to see that things already look to be heading this
direction, and I guess we'll see how it turns out!

Thanks also for your thoughts on solutions. I am finding the pentagonal
duoprism quite challenging, with (dare I say) "parity problems" wreaking
havoc for me. I hope to complete it at some point as well.

All the best,
Roice


On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 6:44 AM, Chris Locke wrote:

> First of all, I want to thank Melinda and Roice for writing and sharing
> this great piece of software with the world! You've done a great job and we
> are all very thankful for your hard work.
>
> Second, I want to congratulate those who have solved some of the new
> puzzles so far. In particular, Anthony for solving the 3 layer deep
> pentagonal duoprism. I actually started working on the same puzzle too a
> few days ago and managed to solve about half the puzzle before you uploaded
> your solution to the wiki. Congrats! Upon looking at your solution, I see
> you were able to solve the puzzle with much more finess than I have been
> working with. I tend to rely on macros quite a bit to work my way out from
> 2 color pieces, up to the 4 color pieces. As such, I often work with reset
> puzzles to find algorithms to permute/orient just the pieces I want, and
> then use these algorithms to build up other algorithms. So really, my way
> of solving is mostly just being careful and patient. It also helps that
> after a while, you find out what kind of moves tend to give potential good
> algorithms. Commutators are one useful building block. Also, you can
> sometimes find new algorithms by taking other sequences (like a simple
> aba'b') and applying it multiple times. Doing this you will sometimes find
> it fixes much of what it does, leaving just what you need moved around (like
> it's almost nilpotent). Of course, conjugation can then vastly increase the
> usefulness of each algorithm. .... but that's a bit more of a digression
> than I intended :D
>
> Before I forget, this actually brings me to a question I have. Will there
> also be a record page for everyone who's solved the puzzles, not just the
> first and shortest solutions? If not, then I will still finish my puzzle,
> but I won't be in as much of a hurry, so I can do other things too in my
> evenings :D. However if we will have such a list, I might try to finish it
> earlier rather than later if I find the time.
>
> Chris
>

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Hi Chris,

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From: Anthony Deschamps <anthony.j.deschamps@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:21:58 -0400
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Announcing MagicCube4D version 4.0 beta ready for

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Hi all,

Thanks for the kind words. Like you, Chris, I did a bit of work with reset
puzzles in order to come up with my algorithms, and I recorded macros when
they were too long or tedious for me to remember every time. I could do
them manually, but macros are quite convenient.

My general strategy was to solve as much of the puzzle as I could by leaving
one side unsolved for working space, partly to cut down on the number of
twists (2000 right on) but mostly so that I could delay having to come up
with algorithms for really specific things until I had a better
understanding of the puzzle.

My advice to you would be to take care of the 2C parity problems right away
(but don't worry about temporarily messing them up during the rest of your
solution) A lot of the other parity problems are almost non issues if
you're using one side as working space, since it's easy to reorientate a
piece however you want.

While we're on the topic of the wiki, would it be possible for whoever
administers it (I'm assuming it's you, Melinda) to allow for log files to be
uploaded? That way we wouldn't have to copy them as text, which, in my
case, was quite long and doesn't really mean anything when viewed in the
wiki. I'm glad to hear that Chris looked at my solution, which means that I
didn't miss anything when I copied it.

I think I'll go read about the notation used to define puzzles. I figured
out some of it by looking at the predefined puzzles, but I'm sure if I learn
more I'll be able to come up with some interesting stuff.

--Anthony

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Roice Nelson wrote:

>
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> You're welcome, and thanks for all your appreciation :D This also gives me
> the opportunity to publicly thank Melinda and Don myself. When Melinda
> shared this with me in mid-June, I was blown away. Don did an amazing job
> with the bones of the program (I think he experiences permutation puzzles on
> a higher plane of existence, or maybe a better way to put it is "on a
> hyperplane of existence"), and Melinda has been amazing in making those
> bones a polished product. I'm really thankful to have been included, and
> feel privileged to get to play a part with it.
>
> Congrats to Anthony too. I was using the the "{5}x{4} 3" as a test run of
> the program, so he trumped me as well :) To answer your question on the
> wiki, the sky is the limit. One reason we wanted to do the wiki was to give
> power to everybody in helping to direct things like this. I think a list of
> "full solutions in order of achievement" type table would be nice to have
> for each puzzle, and I encourage you to start one for this puzzle as soon as
> you complete your solution. The wiki could evolve a number of ways as the
> number of solutions grow, but in my mind I was imagining a main puzzle page
> with a basic list of all the puzzles and the first/shortest, which linked to
> a puzzle specific page for each. The latter would have info about each
> puzzle (maybe a picture, the piece/permutation counts, etc), and the full
> list of everyone who has solved it, as well as the history of shortests.
> I've been pleased to see that things already look to be heading this
> direction, and I guess we'll see how it turns out!
>
> Thanks also for your thoughts on solutions. I am finding the pentagonal
> duoprism quite challenging, with (dare I say) "parity problems" wreaking
> havoc for me. I hope to complete it at some point as well.
>
> All the best,
> Roice
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 6:44 AM, Chris Locke wrote:
>
>> First of all, I want to thank Melinda and Roice for writing and sharing
>> this great piece of software with the world! You've done a great job and we
>> are all very thankful for your hard work.
>>
>> Second, I want to congratulate those who have solved some of the new
>> puzzles so far. In particular, Anthony for solving the 3 layer deep
>> pentagonal duoprism. I actually started working on the same puzzle too a
>> few days ago and managed to solve about half the puzzle before you uploaded
>> your solution to the wiki. Congrats! Upon looking at your solution, I see
>> you were able to solve the puzzle with much more finess than I have been
>> working with. I tend to rely on macros quite a bit to work my way out from
>> 2 color pieces, up to the 4 color pieces. As such, I often work with reset
>> puzzles to find algorithms to permute/orient just the pieces I want, and
>> then use these algorithms to build up other algorithms. So really, my way
>> of solving is mostly just being careful and patient. It also helps that
>> after a while, you find out what kind of moves tend to give potential good
>> algorithms. Commutators are one useful building block. Also, you can
>> sometimes find new algorithms by taking other sequences (like a simple
>> aba'b') and applying it multiple times. Doing this you will sometimes find
>> it fixes much of what it does, leaving just what you need moved around (like
>> it's almost nilpotent). Of course, conjugation can then vastly increase the
>> usefulness of each algorithm. .... but that's a bit more of a digression
>> than I intended :D
>>
>> Before I forget, this actually brings me to a question I have. Will there
>> also be a record page for everyone who's solved the puzzles, not just the
>> first and shortest solutions? If not, then I will still finish my puzzle,
>> but I won't be in as much of a hurry, so I can do other things too in my
>> evenings :D. However if we will have such a list, I might try to finish it
>> earlier rather than later if I find the time.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>
>
>

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Hi all,

Thanks for the kind words.=A0 Like you, Chris, I did a bit o=
f work with reset puzzles in order to come up with my algorithms, and I rec=
orded macros when they were too long or tedious for me to remember every ti=
me.=A0 I could do them manually, but macros are quite convenient.


My general strategy was to solve as much of the puzzle as I could by le=
aving one side unsolved for working space, partly to cut down on the number=
of twists (2000 right on) but mostly so that I could delay having to come =
up with algorithms for really specific things until I had a better understa=
nding of the puzzle.


My advice to you would be to take care of the 2C parity problems right =
away (but don't worry about temporarily messing them up during the rest=
of your solution)=A0 A lot of the other parity problems are almost non iss=
ues if you're using one side as working space, since it's easy to r=
eorientate a piece however you want.


While we're on the topic of the wiki, would it be possible for whoe=
ver administers it (I'm assuming it's you, Melinda) to allow for lo=
g files to be uploaded?=A0 That way we wouldn't have to copy them as te=
xt, which, in my case, was quite long and doesn't really mean anything =
when viewed in the wiki.=A0 I'm glad to hear that Chris looked at my so=
lution, which means that I didn't miss anything when I copied it.


I think I'll go read about the notation used to define puzzles.=A0 =
I figured out some of it by looking at the predefined puzzles, but I'm =
sure if I learn more I'll be able to come up with some interesting stuf=
f.


--Anthony

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From: Roice Nelson <roice3@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:38:01 -0500
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Announcing MagicCube4D version 4.0 beta ready for

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While we're on the topic of the wiki, would it be possible for whoever
administers it (I'm assuming it's you, Melinda) to allow for log files to be
uploaded? That way we wouldn't have to copy them as text, which, in my
case, was quite long and doesn't really mean anything when viewed in the
wiki. I'm glad to hear that Chris looked at my solution, which means that I
didn't miss anything when I copied it.

This is already possible. See the "Upload file" link in the toolbox at the
left of every page :) I too think it would be nicer to have log files be
uploaded files rather than copied text...

Roice

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While we're on the topic of the wiki, would it be possible for who=
ever administers it (I'm assuming it's you, Melinda) to allow for l=
og files to be uploaded?=A0 That way we wouldn't have to copy them as t=
ext, which, in my case, was quite long and doesn't really mean anything=
when viewed in the wiki.=A0 I'm glad to hear that Chris looked at my s=
olution, which means that I didn't miss anything when I copied it.>

--000325559f1a3a2d5304770318f3--

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From: Anthony Deschamps <anthony.j.deschamps@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:41:52 -0400
Subject: Re: [MC4D] Announcing MagicCube4D version 4.0 beta ready for

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When I tried to upload mine it told me that .log files aren't a permitted
file type. It only allows a handful of image types.

--Anthony Deschamps

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 2:38 PM, Roice Nelson wrote:

>
>
> While we're on the topic of the wiki, would it be possible for whoever
> administers it (I'm assuming it's you, Melinda) to allow for log files to be
> uploaded? That way we wouldn't have to copy them as text, which, in my
> case, was quite long and doesn't really mean anything when viewed in the
> wiki. I'm glad to hear that Chris looked at my solution, which means that I
> didn't miss anything when I copied it.
>
> This is already possible. See the "Upload file" link in the toolbox at the
> left of every page :) I too think it would be nicer to have log files be
> uploaded files rather than copied text...
>
> Roice
>
>
>

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When I tried to upload mine it told me that .log files aren't a permitt=
ed file type.=A0 It only allows a handful of image types.

--Anthony =
Deschamps

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