Thread: "New shortest 3x3x3x3 = 333"

--------------090504000503070700020301
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Remi,

Congratulations on taking the most coveted shortest prize of all. If you
take one more (the 5^4), you will have a grand slam!
That was a great story you wrote too. I'm sure that everyone on the list
will enjoy reading it and maybe it will inspire some people to try
things they only dreamed about. It's still not enough to make me attempt
my first full solution yet but definitely someday! :-)

I should say a couple of things about your use of screen captures to
view the invisible face: The first is that you should always be able to
click and regular click as much as you like and then hit z
to get back without affecting the history. If that's not true then there
is a bug. Even if the log file did record your rotations, they shouldn't
affect the twist count. You should even be able to undo a left click by
using the same right click and still leave the history unchanged.

Second, I should tell you that I wrote a program that can read log files
and let you see the invisible face and even rotate it around to view
from other angles. It is called MagicCube4D! ;-) You may not realize
that you can run two copies of the program and use them to view your
puzzle from different directions in 4-space at the same time! They won't
automatically update one when you make a change in the other one but you
can always hit s to save in one and o and to reload
in the other one. You can even make changes in the second copy and then
pick up those changes back in the first one. You'll need to reset your
view each time you reload by ctrl clicking a face twice but that's not
hard. If this becomes a popular way of working I should look into
creating auto-save and auto-update options to help keep multiple copies
in sync. This amounts to one of the potential ways that I described
recently to view the invisible face in a single running program. In some
ways the multiple program solution might even be better because you can
make the "backface view" window smaller and place it wherever you like
on your screen for reference. Even if you never update your reference
view, this has to be a better solution to your problem than using static
screen captures!

In testing just now I found that I couldn't always successfully reload
so I may have a small bug caused by not closing files properly, but you
can also save different states to different files and manage them
however you like with File->Save As. (This is useful in general in order
to keep backups of your progress.) Maybe a similar problem caused your
problem with saving your log file that one time. Or it could be that
some other program like notepad was keeping the file locked. I can look
into whether I'm closing files properly the next time I get a chance to
do some work on the code.

I should mention that I've recently taken a new job. My job is
completely distracting and I may not make the time to work on MC4D for a
long while, so I just want everyone to know that lack of progress
doesn't mean that I don't care deeply. We have all sorts of wonderful
plans for everyone's favorite puzzle and we fully intend to implement as
many of them as possible in time. My new job is at Linden Lab working on
Second Life . If any list members do not know
about Second Life or haven't checked it out recently, you simply must!
It is a complete 3D world built entirely by the residents and you can be
and do just about anything you can dream. You own everything you create
there and you can sell copies of anything you create and some people
even make their full-time living this way. I would love to see someone
do an implementation of MC4D within this virtual world.

But enough about me. This is really Remi's day to shine. So
congratulations again Remi. I'm completely amazed with your
accomplishments and am so happy that we have your passionate efforts to
help improve and promote our little creation!

-Melinda


Remigiusz Durka wrote:
> *Continuation...*
>
> I've decided to do everything in classic way but using:
>
> *4 Move Edge (3C) Sequence:*
>
> Top 6 Left
> Front 5 Left
> Top 6 Right
> Front 6 Right
>
> *8 Move Corner (4C) Sequence (with fliping two 3C pieces):
> *
> Top 4 Left
> Left 15 Left
> Top 4 Right
> Right 4 Right
> Top 4 Left
> Left 15 Right
> Top 4 Right
> Right 4 Left
>
> I've used scrable which was used by Roice and Matt.
>
> From Roice's log I learnt that he (R.N.) finished:
>
> -2C having 48 twists on his twist counter
> -3C having 196 twist on his counter (so he used 148 twists)
> -4C having 334 twists
>
> Now the really funny thing!
>
> I've managed to do:
> -2C in 47
> -3C in 149
>
> So at point 196 twists I had the same situation like Roice! (Oh, In my
> solution I had some 3C pieces with were fliped but it's no important
> because during 4C serie there are 3C flips but there is no 3C pieces
> movement).
>
> We both even had (at this point) *1 correct 4C piece* (I don't know if
> the one Roice had was lucky, mine wasn't, I carefully rotated this
> pieces during II 3C serie which I've needed for last three 3C pieces).
> Nevertheless I got *350 result!* It was better than last time but
> still about 16 twists to much. (3:0 for the Roice).
>
> I was desperated and stubborn (look into attached screen or one of the
> link below):
>
> http://genezis.autko.net/hypercube/files/short/9x3C-to-go.PNG
>
> http://games.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/photos/view/e06c?b=1&m=f&o=0
>
>
>
> One thing corresponding to the last discussion -> I had to use m$
> paint to plan the situation (because invisibility of the 8th face).
> Paint was really helpful !!! No, I couldn't use (Ctr+click) to look.
> From time to time I was moving log backward (just checking) and I
> couldn't use Ctr or anything more to see which sticker is invisible
> because I would change the log. Maybe the should be somekindof
> highlighting hypersticers showing which color is on the sticer
> belonging to 8th face??? Puting cursor on it and somekind of info
> which sticker is hidden?
>
> Yesterday I sat down on the cracking the record again. I end up with
> *2 corners Fliped!* and one 3C piece rotated... (I had 334 twists on
> my counter :|). I've returned a little bit and -> I got my cube solved
> in *339 twists* :|. Only 5 twists! I've returned even more back and
> made rotation 3C piece somewhere during solution (using III 3C Serie).
> It took me some time to plan everything and I got... *335*... One more
> to go.
>
> I started checking log again: *twist by twist* trying to find some
> preliminary moves which can be done shorter. I found 2 twist which
> could be changed into one!!! It meant 334 twists for me. Yeah! At this
> point something strange happend, becuse I couldn't delete these two
> entries and put one... The cube was at the end really mixed. I was
> laughing that probably there is somekinde profecy which tells that
> there will be End of the World when someone breaks Roice's record. I
> tried and tried. And I couldn't change IN LOG these two moves into
> single one ! It was just like everythin was fighting against me trying
> to crack this record. I've needed a break...
>
> After some time I gave another try. And *I did it*... But still *I
> wanted to break* the record!
>
> I've found another twist which could be shave. I've chaged this in
> log... but *I couldn't SAVE it!!!* "What the hell?" - I've though and
> I suddenly realise -> it's 333 twists = *666/*2
>
> Still don't know what was going on. I had to do this one more time,
> becuse there was something wrong with the program so I had to shut it
> down...
>
> Finally I got it! *333 solution...* I didn't believe that it can be
> done. 334 twists was really scary to even start dealing with this in
> first place....
>
> Ufffffffffffff...
>
> There is something strange with *so close correlation* of ours
> solution if we look at *complexity* of 3x3x3x3. All phases were almost
> equal. +/- 1. At the end *we used the same amount* of twists for 4C
> and 3C pieces! and the only difference was with *one twist less* in my
> 2C phase! I think it means that we were close to the physical limit of
> the method concerning doing one kind of pieces by another... Damn
> close... It's really hard to think about making drasticlly something
> better with our solutions. Everything which will be less it would be
> *only!* because of the... *luck.*
> **
> Many times I was wondering should I do preliminary moves for the 3C
> Serie, containing 4 moves, trying to put for example 4 pieces? Or just
> apply 4 twist macro for the one single pieces.
>
> I was doing preliminary moves (but really suffisticeted and
> efficient) and Roice (as I could tell) was doing clean use of his
> 4twist Serie puting one piece each time. I was trying to minimalize
> all losts and I was balancing on the edge of my abillities... My
> macros were pretty short: 4 twists, 8 twists, and one time... I've
> used 14 :)
>
> ------------------
> Melind wrote:
>
> Congratulations Remi!
>
> That's a lot of 3's!! I don't think I ever expected to see anyone crack
> Roice's shortest 3^4. If you had waited just 4 more days his record
> would have lasted exactly 3 years! And you even used macros!! Roice has
> not been very active on the mailing list for a while but I remember how
> firmly retook the shortest record back every time anyone broke his so I
> wouldn't be surprised to see him do that again. I think that he feels
> that this prize belongs to him. I expect him to turn in a sub-300
> solution before we're finished. We shall see.
>
> I've now recorded Remi's new record. Let the battle of the big brains
> begin!
> -Melinda
> ------------------
>
>
> Again from my side: *FULL RESPECT for you ROICE.* I still remeber that
> you did your result without any pressure!
>
> Take care Roice and good luck,
>
> Remigiusz D.

--------------090504000503070700020301
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-2
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit








Remi,



Congratulations on taking the most coveted shortest prize of all. If
you take one more (the 5^4), you will have a grand slam!

That was a great story you wrote too. I'm sure that everyone on the
list
will enjoy reading it and maybe it will inspire some people to try
things they
only dreamed about. It's still not enough to make me attempt my first
full solution yet but definitely someday! :-)



I should say a couple of things about your use of screen captures to
view the invisible face: The first is that you should always be able to
<ctrl>click and regular click as much as you like and then hit
<ctrl>z to get back without affecting the history. If that's not
true then there is a bug. Even if the log file did record your
rotations, they shouldn't affect the twist count. You should even be
able to undo a left click by using the same right click and still leave
the history unchanged.



Second, I should tell you that I wrote a program that can read log
files and let you see the invisible face and even rotate it around to
view from other angles. It is called MagicCube4D!� ;-)� You may not
realize that you can run two copies of the program and use them to view
your puzzle from different directions in 4-space at the same time! They
won't automatically update one when you make a change in the other one
but you can always hit <ctrl>s to save in one and <ctrl>o
and <enter> to reload in the other one. You can even make changes
in the second copy and then pick up those changes back in the first
one. You'll need to reset your view each time you reload by ctrl
clicking a face twice but that's not hard. If this becomes a popular
way of working I should look into creating auto-save and auto-update
options to help keep multiple copies in sync. This amounts to one of
the potential ways that I described recently to view the invisible face
in a single running program. In some ways the multiple program solution
might even be better because you can make the "backface view" window
smaller and place it wherever you like on your screen for reference.
Even if you never update your reference view, this has to be a better
solution to your problem than using static screen captures!



In testing just now I found that I couldn't always successfully reload
so I may have a small bug caused by not closing files properly, but you
can also save different states to different files and manage them
however you like with File->Save As. (This is useful in general in
order to keep backups of your progress.) Maybe a similar problem caused
your problem with saving your log file that one time. Or it could be
that some other program like notepad was keeping the file locked. I can
look into whether I'm closing files properly the next time I get a
chance to do some work on the code.



I should mention that I've recently taken a new job. My job is
completely distracting and I may not make the time to work on
MC4D for a long while, so I just want everyone to know that lack of
progress doesn't mean that I don't care deeply. We have all sorts of
wonderful plans for everyone's favorite puzzle and we fully intend to
implement as many of them as possible in time. My new job is at Linden
Lab working on Second Life. If
any list members do not know about Second Life or haven't checked it
out recently, you simply must! It is a complete 3D world built entirely
by the residents and you can be and do just about anything you can
dream. You own everything you create there and you can sell copies of
anything you create and some people even make their full-time living
this way. I would love to see someone do an implementation of MC4D
within this virtual world.



But enough about me. This is really Remi's day to shine. So
congratulations again Remi. I'm completely amazed with your
accomplishments and am so happy that we have your passionate efforts to
help improve and promote our little creation!



-Melinda





Remigiusz Durka wrote:

Continuation...

�

I've decided to do everything in
classic way but using:



4 Move Edge (3C)�Sequence:

Top 6 Left

Front 5 Left

Top 6 Right

Front 6 Right



8 Move Corner (4C)�Sequence (with fliping two 3C pieces):



Top 4 Left

Left 15 Left

Top 4 Right

Right 4 Right

Top 4 Left

Left 15 Right

Top 4 Right

Right 4 Left

�

I've used scrable which was used
by Roice and Matt.

�

From Roice's log I learnt that he
(R.N.)�finished:

�

-2C having 48 twists on his twist
counter

-3C having 196 twist on his
counter (so he used 148 twists)

-4C having 334 twists

�

Now the really funny thing!

�

I've managed to do:

-2C in 47

-3C in 149

�

So at point 196 twists I had the
same�situation like Roice! (Oh, In my solution I had some 3C pieces
with were fliped but it's no important because during 4C serie there
are 3C flips but there is no 3C pieces movement).

�

We both even had (at this point) 1
correct 4C piece (I don't know if the one Roice had was lucky,
mine wasn't, I carefully rotated this pieces during II 3C serie which
I've needed for last three 3C pieces). Nevertheless I got 350
result! It was better than last time but still about 16 twists
to much. (3:0 for the Roice).

�

I was desperated and stubborn
(look into attached screen or one of the link below):

�

href="http://genezis.autko.net/hypercube/files/short/9x3C-to-go.PNG">http://genezis.autko.net/hypercube/files/short/9x3C-to-go.PNG

�

href="http://games.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/photos/view/e06c?b=1&m=f&o=0">http://games.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/photos/view/e06c?b=1&m=f&o=0

�

�

One thing corresponding to the
last discussion -> I had to use m$ paint to plan the situation
(because invisibility of the 8th face). Paint was really helpful !!!
No, I couldn't use (Ctr+click) to look. From time to time I was moving
log backward (just checking)�and I couldn't use Ctr or anything more to
see which sticker is invisible because I would change the log. Maybe
the should be somekindof highlighting hypersticers showing which color
is on the sticer belonging to 8th face??? Puting cursor on it and
somekind of info which sticker is hidden?

�

Yesterday I sat down on the
cracking the record again. I end up with 2 corners Fliped!
and one 3C piece rotated... (I had 334 twists on my counter :|). I've
returned a little bit and -> I got my cube solved in 339
twists :|. Only 5 twists! I've returned even more back and
made rotation 3C piece somewhere during solution (using III 3C Serie).
It took me some time to plan everything and I got... 335...
One more to go.

�

I started checking log again: twist
by twist trying to find some preliminary moves which can be
done shorter. I found 2 twist which could be changed into one!!! It
meant 334 twists for me. Yeah! At this point something strange happend,
becuse I couldn't delete these two entries and put one... The cube was
at the end really mixed. I was laughing that probably there is
somekinde profecy which tells that there will be End of the World when
someone breaks Roice's record. I tried and tried. And I couldn't change
IN LOG these two�moves into single one ! It was just like everythin was
fighting against me trying to crack this record. I've needed a break...

�

After some time I gave another
try. And I did it... But still I wanted to
break the record!

�

I've found another twist which
could be shave. I've chaged this in log... but I couldn't SAVE
it!!! "What the hell?" - I've though and I suddenly realise
-> it's 333 twists = 666/2 <lol>

�

Still don't know what was going
on. I had to do this one more time, becuse there was something wrong
with the program so I had to shut it down...

�

Finally I got it! 333
solution... I didn't believe that it can be done. 334 twists
was really scary to even start dealing with this in first place....

�

Ufffffffffffff...

�

There is something strange with so
close correlation of ours solution if we look at complexity
of 3x3x3x3. All phases were almost equal. +/- 1. At the end we
used the same amount of twists for 4C and 3C pieces! and the
only difference was with one twist less in my 2C
phase! I think it means that we were close to the physical limit of the
method concerning doing one kind of pieces by another...�Damn close...
It's really hard to think about making drasticlly�something better with
our solutions. Everything which will be less it would be only!
because of the... luck.

�

Many times I was wondering should
I do preliminary moves for the 3C Serie, containing 4 moves, trying to
put for example 4 pieces? Or just apply 4 twist macro for the one
single pieces.

�

I was doing preliminary moves (but
really suffisticeted and efficient)�and Roice (as I could tell) was
doing clean use of his 4twist Serie puting one piece each time. I was
trying to minimalize all losts and I was balancing on the edge of my
abillities... My macros were�pretty short: 4 twists, 8 twists, and one
time... I've used 14 :)

�

------------------

Melind wrote:

�

Congratulations Remi!



That's a lot of 3's!! I don't think I ever expected to see anyone crack


Roice's shortest 3^4. If you had waited just 4 more days his record

would have lasted exactly 3 years! And you even used macros!! Roice has


not been very active on the mailing list for a while but I remember how


firmly retook the shortest record back every time anyone broke his so I


wouldn't be surprised to see him do that again. I think that he feels

that this prize belongs to him. I expect him to turn in a sub-300

solution before we're finished. We shall see.

�

I've now recorded Remi's new
record. Let the battle of the big brains begin!

-Melinda

------------------

�

�

Again from my side:�FULL
RESPECT for you ROICE. I still remeber that you did your
result without any pressure!

�

Take care Roice and good luck,

�

Remigiusz D.

------=_Part_191884_30323155.1188089531215
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

I've been talking with Remi some off the group list, but let me
take the chance to congratulate him here too. Great job! The writeup was
very entertaining and I especially liked the cliff hanger last night ;) I
will of course have to attempt to reclaim the crown, but Remi, I think
you'll be safe for a while!

I thought I'd mention one small thing regarding something you wrote near the
end. In doing my last solution, I did try to place as many 3C colors at
once as I could (not just one with each sequence). There seems to be a
balancing point though, because this approach can start turning into the
situation where preliminary moves alone require so much complexity that they
exceed the length of just using extra main sequences.

Anyway, congrats again Remi!

Roice


On 8/25/07, Remigiusz Durka wrote:
>
> *Continuation...*
>
> I've decided to do everything in classic way but using:
>
> *4 Move Edge (3C) Sequence:*
>
> Top 6 Left
> Front 5 Left
> Top 6 Right
> Front 6 Right
>
> *8 Move Corner (4C) Sequence (with fliping two 3C pieces):
> *
> Top 4 Left
> Left 15 Left
> Top 4 Right
> Right 4 Right
> Top 4 Left
> Left 15 Right
> Top 4 Right
> Right 4 Left
>
> I've used scrable which was used by Roice and Matt.
>
> From Roice's log I learnt that he (R.N.) finished:
>
> -2C having 48 twists on his twist counter
> -3C having 196 twist on his counter (so he used 148 twists)
> -4C having 334 twists
>
> Now the really funny thing!
>
> I've managed to do:
> -2C in 47
> -3C in 149
>
> So at point 196 twists I had the same situation like Roice! (Oh, In my
> solution I had some 3C pieces with were fliped but it's no important because
> during 4C serie there are 3C flips but there is no 3C pieces movement).
>
> We both even had (at this point) *1 correct 4C piece* (I don't know if the
> one Roice had was lucky, mine wasn't, I carefully rotated this pieces during
> II 3C serie which I've needed for last three 3C pieces). Nevertheless I got
> *350 result!* It was better than last time but still about 16 twists to
> much. (3:0 for the Roice).
>
> I was desperated and stubborn (look into attached screen or one of the
> link below):
>
> http://genezis.autko.net/hypercube/files/short/9x3C-to-go.PNG
>
>
> http://games.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/4D_Cubing/photos/view/e06c?b=1&m=f&o=0
>
>
> One thing corresponding to the last discussion -> I had to use m$ paint to
> plan the situation (because invisibility of the 8th face). Paint was really
> helpful !!! No, I couldn't use (Ctr+click) to look. From time to time I was
> moving log backward (just checking) and I couldn't use Ctr or anything more
> to see which sticker is invisible because I would change the log. Maybe the
> should be somekindof highlighting hypersticers showing which color is on the
> sticer belonging to 8th face??? Puting cursor on it and somekind of info
> which sticker is hidden?
>
> Yesterday I sat down on the cracking the record again. I end up with *2
> corners Fliped!* and one 3C piece rotated... (I had 334 twists on my
> counter :|). I've returned a little bit and -> I got my cube solved in *339
> twists* :|. Only 5 twists! I've returned even more back and made rotation
> 3C piece somewhere during solution (using III 3C Serie). It took me some
> time to plan everything and I got... *335*... One more to go.
>
> I started checking log again: *twist by twist* trying to find some
> preliminary moves which can be done shorter. I found 2 twist which could be
> changed into one!!! It meant 334 twists for me. Yeah! At this point
> something strange happend, becuse I couldn't delete these two entries and
> put one... The cube was at the end really mixed. I was laughing that
> probably there is somekinde profecy which tells that there will be End of
> the World when someone breaks Roice's record. I tried and tried. And I
> couldn't change IN LOG these two moves into single one ! It was just like
> everythin was fighting against me trying to crack this record. I've needed a
> break...
>
> After some time I gave another try. And *I did it*... But still *I wanted
> to break* the record!
>
> I've found another twist which could be shave. I've chaged this in log...
> but *I couldn't SAVE it!!!* "What the hell?" - I've though and I suddenly
> realise -> it's 333 twists = *666/*2
>
> Still don't know what was going on. I had to do this one more time, becuse
> there was something wrong with the program so I had to shut it down...
>
> Finally I got it! *333 solution...* I didn't believe that it can be done.
> 334 twists was really scary to even start dealing with this in first
> place....
>
> Ufffffffffffff...
>
> There is something strange with *so close correlation* of ours solution if
> we look at *complexity* of 3x3x3x3. All phases were almost equal. +/- 1.
> At the end *we used the same amount* of twists for 4C and 3C pieces! and
> the only difference was with *one twist less* in my 2C phase! I think it
> means that we were close to the physical limit of the method concerning
> doing one kind of pieces by another... Damn close... It's really hard to
> think about making drasticlly something better with our solutions.
> Everything which will be less it would be *only!* because of the... *luck.
> *
> **
> Many times I was wondering should I do preliminary moves for the 3C Serie,
> containing 4 moves, trying to put for example 4 pieces? Or just apply 4
> twist macro for the one single pieces.
>
> I was doing preliminary moves (but really suffisticeted and efficient) and
> Roice (as I could tell) was doing clean use of his 4twist Serie puting one
> piece each time. I was trying to minimalize all losts and I was balancing on
> the edge of my abillities... My macros were pretty short: 4 twists, 8
> twists, and one time... I've used 14 :)
>
> ------------------
> Melind wrote:
>
> Congratulations Remi!
>
> That's a lot of 3's!! I don't think I ever expected to see anyone crack
> Roice's shortest 3^4. If you had waited just 4 more days his record
> would have lasted exactly 3 years! And you even used macros!! Roice has
> not been very active on the mailing list for a while but I remember how
> firmly retook the shortest record back every time anyone broke his so I
> wouldn't be surprised to see him do that again. I think that he feels
> that this prize belongs to him. I expect him to turn in a sub-300
> solution before we're finished. We shall see.
>
> I've now recorded Remi's new record. Let the battle of the big brains
> begin!
> -Melinda
> ------------------
>
>
> Again from my side: *FULL RESPECT for you ROICE.* I still remeber that you
> did your result without any pressure!
>
> Take care Roice and good luck,
>
> Remigiusz D.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Wygraj depilator, prostownice do wlasow lub mikser
>
> >>> http://link.interia.pl/f1b72
>
>
>

------=_Part_191884_30323155.1188089531215
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline